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Alphamale06

The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

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Could it not have been that the Spanish didn't appreciate that Incan style of building very much after all?

They let the Incan stone workers do their thing in the beginning, but later on preferred their own (European) style of building

And that the Incan technique of building didn't spread around the world through the Spaniards is maybe because,like I said, the Spaniards weren't as impressed as we all now are. Or - best reason I should say - because the Incan way of building took too much time. And considering what De La Vega said, that may be the one and only reason the Spaniards eventually did not adopt the Incan style of building.

Perfectly sane reasons, and no aliens needed.

I agree Abe. For many of the same reasons we are not building our homes out of stone. Takes too long. Is too much work. Cost too much.

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Chroniclers indicate that in order to dress stones Inkas used some other harder ones, this is what tradition teaches and also what was demonstrated. In some quarries and different archaeological diggings some different harder stones were found; harder than the ones that were being shaped or are naturally found in the site. Those harder ones are the stone hammers that tradition names as Jiwaya or Jiwayo used to smooth off or carve building stones. They are compact and heavy sedimentary rocks containing ferric oxides: hematite (Fe2O3) originates a brick-reddish color in the rock, ferrous oxide (FeO) produces a grayish or blackish color, goethite (Fe2O3.H2O) originates a brown color while that limonite (2Fe2O3.3H2O) a yellowish color. These rocks may contain even about 6% of iron. Likewise, some hammers of basalt and epidorite rounded cobblestones were used; those are the famous qollotas that are found in river beds and have a hardness that is similar or superior than worked stones; the difference is in their great compactness. Hard rock hammers were frequently ovoidal and used through percussion (bumping) over the stones for buildings that were smoothed off in a slow and laborious work. Their weight was according to the duties they had to perform. So, the heaviest ones weighing about 10 Kg. (22 Lb.) served for smoothing stones off while the lightest ones of approximately 1 Kg. (2.2 Lb.) were for making shapes regular or adjusting edges. It is frequently heard that obsidians were used for dressing stones too; that is vaguely probable because they are a shiny sort of volcanic glass resulting from siliceous magmas that were cooled off; they would be useless for bumping but were used as knives, scrapers and spearheads or arrowheads. The final dressing and polishing of building stones was made through abrasion or friction with sandstones or simply sand as abrasives and abundant water.

Even until some few years ago it was believed that Inkas did not manage using metal instruments in their stone works because there was a lack of enough evidences and testimonies. Nevertheless, modern studies demonstrated that all that is not true. Bronze, the alloy of tin and copper was the hardest metal used by Quechuas. Normally, in the different museums there are bronze tools of different alloys correctly tempered and of great hardness. The most serious study about the matter was made by Yale University professor Robert B. Gordon, who studied a collection of metal objects taken by Hiram Bingham from Machupicchu. Among them he found 13 bronze instruments apparently made for heavy duty works; later analysis and exhaustive tests gave the conclusion that 1 of them was used to carve wood, 2 were designed for stone works but were not used and the 10 remaining ones were used as real chisels: in order to detach stone particles with impact produced being hit on their upper edge. Thus, it is also demonstrated that Inkas used metal tools in order to carve stones.

http://www.qosqo.com/lithic.shtml

INCA CULTURE AT THE TIME CONQUEST OF THE SPANISH

By JOHN HOWLAND ROWE

The Inca hammered and annealed the cutting edges of knives, axes,

and chisels in order to secure maximum hardness. (Mathewson,

1915; Mead, 1915; Nordenskiiild, 1921.)

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I agree Abe. For many of the same reasons we are not building our homes out of stone. Takes too long. Is too much work. Cost too much.

Nonsense. You can build a house made of bricks or marl in let's say 3 months.

It would have taken the Incas years to do the same.

+++

EDIT:

Sorry, I misread your post,lol.

Yes, using rock takes too long.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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What i see here, so often, is how easy it is to kind of 'mold' things (be it history or art or rocks on Mars) into what people want to see.....

What i find disturbing/scary is they they don't realise how EASY it is to do!

And, it would seem, the more absurd the better. It's as if those guys (the AA charlatans) could say anything at all and it would be accepted as absolute truth. No one can say they're idiots, I mean, MAN, they're really raking it in. Which, in my opinion, is the whole point of the ruse.

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Anyway, there were chroniclers present when the Incas built their structures.

Their chisels were hard enough to do the job.

They also used rock hammers harder than the rocks they worked on.

And read the rest here: http://www.qosqo.com/lithic.shtml

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Your comments on the Spanish watching and writing about these places being built, please?

They didn't. There is no evidence that the Spanish Witnessed megalithic construction.

Seriously, zoser? Do you even read what other people post?

The Inca used similar construction techniques in building Sacsayhuaman as they used on all their stonework, albeit on a far more massive scale.[11] The stones were rough-cut to the approximate shape in the quarries using river cobbles.[12] They were then dragged by rope to the construction site, a feat that at times required hundreds of men.[13] The ropes were so impressive that they warranted mention by Diego de Trujillo (1948:63 [1571]) as he inspected a room filled with building materials. The stones were then shaped into their final form at the building site and then laid in place.[14] The work, while supervised by Inca architects, was largely carried out by groups of individuals fulfilling their labor obligations to the state. In this system of “mita” or “turn” labor, each village or ethnic group provided a certain number of individuals to participate in public works projects.[15]

Although multiple regions might provide labor for a single, large-scale state project, the ethnic composition of the work-gangs remained intact, as different groups were assigned different tasks. Cieza de León (1976:153–154), who visited Sacsayhuaman two times in the late 1540s, mentions the quarrying of the stones, their transposition to the site, and the digging of foundation trenches. All this was conducted by rotational labor under the close supervision of Imperial architects

Your comments on why you continue to ignore the proof of how these things were done, please?

It's drivel. The tools would not work. They would never produce the accuracy - see Hopkins statement.

Goddammit. Hopkins said "IT COULD BE DONE BY HAND" Pay attention, please.

The tools work just fine, you just refuse to believe that.

You comments on why aliens would drill holes in rocks, please?

Something functional needed to be achieved; understanding the properties of stones is important to this. The Pyramid Generator theory is part of this idea, the other example being that Stonehenge is two types of stone; Saracen and Blue Stone; that must have been for a purpose. Not defense, not ritual, not art; functionality.

That makes no sense, even for you.

Pyramid generator theory? Come on. What kind of new age claptrap do you buy into?

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Could it not have been that the Spanish didn't appreciate that Incan style of building very much after all?

They let the Incan stone workers do their thing in the beginning, but later on preferred their own (European) style of building

And that the Incan technique of building didn't spread around the world through the Spaniards is maybe because,like I said, the Spaniards weren't as impressed as we all now are. Or - best reason I should say - because the Incan way of building took too much time. And considering what De La Vega said, that may be the one and only reason the Spaniards eventually did not adopt the Incan style of building.

Perfectly sane reasons, and no aliens needed.

Not to mention the fact that they just took all the stones from various Inca sites to build their own houses and such. Why waste Inca labor when they've already cut, formed and drilled the holes for you?

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Not to mention the fact that they just took all the stones from various Inca sites to build their own houses and such. Why waste Inca labor when they've already cut, formed and drilled the holes for you?

Yes, that's what Oniomancer already said.

They could take the Inca buildings apart and use the stones to construct platforms on which they build houses and churches in their own, European style. They only had to put the stones together again like a jigsaw puzzle.

But the fact remains that chroniclers reported about the Incas building their structures, something Zoser doesn't want to hear about for that means aliens had nothing to do with it.

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Yes, that's what Oniomancer already said.

They could take the Inca buildings apart and use the stones to construct platforms on which they build houses and churches in their own, European style. They only had to put the stones together again like a jigsaw puzzle.

But the fact remains that chroniclers reported about the Incas building their structures, something Zoser doesn't want to hear about for that means aliens had nothing to do with it.

I know. I've posted the same quote 3 or 4 times and he still continues to ignore it.

I cannot fathom the denial that has to go into a belief like his. It's stupefying.

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Nice and Genoa 1608

On the evening of August 5th, 1608, three luminous craft were seen by the towns residents over Baie des Anges in Nice, France,

The craft were long, oval in shape and flattened along their lengths, each with a "strange mast" on top of them.

The bay waters began to frothe underneath them, giving off a dense orange vapor, accompanied by a loud, unpleasant noise. From one of the craft two vaguelyhuman looking beings appeared.

They were described as being dressed in red clothes covered with silvery scales, with huge heads and luminous eyes. The two creatures, holding cables or tubes attached to the craft, jumped into the water and moved about their ship for around two hours.

When they returned inside the object, all three left at a high rate of speed.

Later that month on the 22nd, the craft reappeared further south in Genoa, Italy, where they were greeted with cannonballs that were fired at them, none of the creatures, or aliens emerged and no damage was observed to the craft.

People panicked, and several deaths were reported as the result of trampling by terrified people, overcome with fear.

Finally the three objects left."

Source:MUFON UFO Journal, February 2009 , p. 7, “Citizens of Nice, France saw UFOs in 1608” by John Tomlinson (He is the MUFON Representative for France.)

Original source according to John Tomlinson is:

"Discours des terribles et espouvantables signes apparus sur la mer de Gennes".

Then some links:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6404118/Discours-Des-Terribles-Et-Espouvantables-Signes-Apparus-Sur-La-Mer-de-Gennes

http://rr0.org/data/1/6/0/8/Signes/index.html

Then one great member translated to me , TheSearcher. (too bad he isnt anymore with us, but I dont think he need introduction. But before I joined I adore reading him. )

Here is what TheSearcher said:

"The translation is about correct, although there are a few things missing from the actual original texte. Here's a good link to use for the original. Be warned it's a rather archaic French, hard for some.

In fact there are a few things I need to specify, first of all the creatures themselves appear alone in the sea near the coast, without any flying objects around and are described slightly differently.

...les uns estoient en figures humaines ayant des bras qui sembloient estre couverts d’escailles et tenoyent en chacune de leur main deux horribles Serpens volans, qui leur entortilloient les bras, et ne paroissoyent que depuis le nombril, en haut hors de la mer et jettoient des cris si horribles, que c’estoit chose du tout espouventable, et parfois se plongeoyent dans la mer, puis ressortoyent en d’autres endroits loin de là,...

These vaguely human creatures, seemed covered in scales and had in each hand a flying serpent, which seemed to twine around each arm, were only visible waist-up (ssems normal as they were in the water) and were screaming or roaring quite fiercely. They also swam under water from one spot to another distant one....

...d’autres avoient le corps comme corps humains, tout couverts d’escailles, mais la teste estoit en forme d’un dragon....

Others had human bodies, covered with scales, but with the head of a dragon.

Depuis le premier jour dudict moys ils ont esté ordinairement veus au grand estonnement de tous les Genevois. La seigneurie fit tramer quelques canons pour tascher de les faire oster de ce lieu, et leur fut tiré quelque huict cens coups de canon, mais en vain, car ils ne s’en estonnerent nullement.

It also seems that the creatures were there for quite a while as the Duke had the time to let go of 800 cannon shots, in the time they were there.

In fact according to the text, the first sightings of beasts alone were beginning of August. The "landing of the craft" only occurred later through out the month of August.

Le quinzième Aoust apparurent sur ladite mer du port de Gennes trois carosses traînant chacune par six figures toutes en feu, en semblance de dragon. Et marchoient lesdictes carosses, l’une à l’oposite de l’autre, et estoient lesdictes carrosses trainées par lesdicts signes qui avoient toujours leurs serpens, en continuant leurs cris espouventables et s’approchaient assez près de Gennes, tellement que les spectateurs, du moins la plus grand part, estonnez s’enfuirent, craignant les effets d’un tel prodige, mais comme ils eurent faict la virevolée par trois fois le long du port après qu’ils eurent jetté des cris si puissants de bruict qu’ils faisaient retentir les montagnes des environs, ils se perdirent tous dedans ladicte mer, et depuis l’on n’en a veu ny sceu aucune nouvelle.

The 15th of August to be precise. Again the creatures scream or roar, don't really land, but move three times along the port / harbor of Gennes.

The English translations are somewhat correct, but got a lot of details wrong, I find. Then again, I'm a stickler for details."

Then I told: 800 cannon shots ?! And they didn’t done any damage? That is a big number of cannon balls. Maybe they are still on bottom of the sea.

Then TheSearcher said:

As to the 800 cannon shots, there is no specification that they were actually loaded. Could have been blanc shots, to scare the beings in question. It's hard to tell from the text alone.

Anyway there you have historical document.

People died from the shock, they shoot at them

Again Im waiting. :st

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Imaginarynumber1,, I will add that post of yours together (the one with the super bolded text, lol) with what I found today in my blog (the post about "Inca Architecture") for future reference.

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Imaginarynumber1,, I will add that post of yours together (the one with the super bolded text, lol) with what I found today in my blog (the post about "Inca Architecture") for future reference.

Sounds good. It's from the wiki on Sacsayhuaman.

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I know. I've posted the same quote 3 or 4 times and he still continues to ignore it.

I cannot fathom the denial that has to go into a belief like his. It's stupefying.

A summary of the saliencies so far refuting conventional archaeological explanations:

Not aimed at anyone just a summary of 6 key points as I see it.

No satisfactory explanation has been put forward as a counter argument as to why the Spanish refused to use the megalithic techniques if indeed they had the knowledge and witnessed it.

No one has provided a satisfactory argument as to why in all of these Peruvian sites mentioned there are two distinct types of architecture; one precise megalithic the other more crude by comparison. Yet attributed to the same people.

No one has demonstrated an equivalent accuracy of the hole in my picture that was achieved using primitive means.

No one has provided a counter argument to Roger Hopkins last statements.

No one has provided a counter argument to Dunn's refutation of the bow copper and sand theory in my last clip (Or indeed the explanations as to how parallelism and accuracy of the granite boxes in the Serapeum came to be precise to 2 thousandth of an inch again in the same clip).

No one has provided satisfactory explanations as to how such massive blocks can be placed together as if they are tightly fused across large depths.

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Oh, and tell me: how is soft steel compared to hardened copper or bronze?

I ask, because truely don't know.

+++

EDIT:

This table should give us a clue:

http://www.hammersou...ss?url=Hardness

.

There must be some reason why you posted this; I just can't see it. I can't believe that you are that silly to counter your own argument so I will give you the honour of providing an explanation for it:

Nickel Aluminum Bronze (Alloy #958)-

This alloy is 79% Copper, 10% Aluminum, 4% Iron, 2% Manganese and 5% Nickel. This alloy is more durable than 100% copper, Red and Yellow Brass. Hardness is approximately 150-190.

Yellow Brass (Copper Alloy #865)-

Yellow Brass, also considered a "Bronze", is 60% Copper, 33% Zinc, 2% Iron, 1.5% Aluminum, 1-5% Manganese, 1% Tin, .5% Nickel. Brinell Hardness of 100.

Soft Steel-

Hardness of under 30 on Rockwell C scale, around 279 Brinell.

Malleable Iron-

Brinell hardness of around 134

Aluminum-

Brinell hardness of around 70

Copper-

Brinell hardness of around 40-50

Lead-

Brinell hardness usually in the 30's

Edited by zoser

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Yet they did not chose to emulate the superior style? Even in their Churches? Nah. Doesn't wash Abe. But then neither does showing people clips of 'soft' steel pounders and chisels and claiming it as a solution.

The Spanish being who they were would have exported that technique around the world before you could say 'monopoly'.

I've answered that one Zoser - the Spanish thought they were heathens and wanted nothing more then their gold. There's that old story about thr Caliph of Alexandria burning the library saying "if it's not in the Koran it's heretical, if it's already in the Koran this is unnecessary", the samr thing is true in Sounth America' who cares how clever the heathens are, they have gold and they're heathens therefore they'e idiots.

Arrogance and greed have destroyed and ignored more discoveries then war ever could.

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A summary of the saliencies so far refuting conventional archaeological explanations:

Not aimed at anyone just a summary of 6 key points as I see it.

No satisfactory explanation has been put forward as a counter argument as to why the Spanish refused to use the megalithic techniques if indeed they had the knowledge and witnessed it.

Because they weren't building megaliths. They were stealing stones from them to build their own dwellings. They saw the Inca as inferior and a people to be conquered. Why would they think that they could learn anything from them?

No one has provided a satisfactory argument as to why in all of these Peruvian sites mentioned there are two distinct types of architecture; one precise megalithic the other more crude by comparison. Yet attributed to the same people.

This has been explained several times. There were other cultures that the Inca absorbed as their empire grew. Different cultures had different styles. Notably the Tiwanaku. The ones who built Pumapunku.

No one has demonstrated an equivalent accuracy of the hole in my picture that was achieved using primitive means.

The hole you showed did not appear to be very straight, though this could have been due to the camera angle. The "scorch marks" or whatever you called them are clearly seams in the rock.

The video that Abramelin, I believe, posted about the Indian stoneworkers quite clearly showed the precision and craftsmanship that can be achieved by hand.

No one has provided a counter argument to Roger Hopkins last statements.

Hopkins gave his personal opinion based upon the tools that he uses. This does not refute the fact that these things can and have been done by hand.

No one has provided a counter argument to Dunn's refutation of the bow copper and sand theory in my last clip (Or indeed the explanations as to how parallelism and accuracy of the granite boxes in the Serapeum came to be precise to 2 thousandth of an inch again in the same clip).

The copper bow and sand theory works. I have not watched this clip so I do not know what this refutation was, but I surmise it ends with "Aliens did it."

No one has provided satisfactory explanations as to how such massive blocks can be placed together as if they are tightly fused across large depths.

Again, already explained. The stones are worked by hand over and over and over again until they perfectly fit together.

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There must be some reason why you posted this; I just can't see it. I can't believe that you are that silly to counter your own argument so I will give you the honour of providing an explanation for it:

Nickel Aluminum Bronze (Alloy #958)-

This alloy is 79% Copper, 10% Aluminum, 4% Iron, 2% Manganese and 5% Nickel. This alloy is more durable than 100% copper, Red and Yellow Brass. Hardness is approximately 150-190.

Yellow Brass (Copper Alloy #865)-

Yellow Brass, also considered a "Bronze", is 60% Copper, 33% Zinc, 2% Iron, 1.5% Aluminum, 1-5% Manganese, 1% Tin, .5% Nickel. Brinell Hardness of 100.

Soft Steel-

Hardness of under 30 on Rockwell C scale, around 279 Brinell.

Malleable Iron-

Brinell hardness of around 134

Aluminum-

Brinell hardness of around 70

Copper-

Brinell hardness of around 40-50

Lead-

Brinell hardness usually in the 30's

Nickel Aluminum Bronze (Alloy #958)-

This alloy is 79% Copper, 10% Aluminum, 4% Iron, 2% Manganese and 5% Nickel. This alloy is more durable than 100% copper, Red and Yellow Brass. Hardness is approximately 150-190.

Soft Steel-

Hardness of under 30 on Rockwell C scale, around 279 Brinell.

You tell me what scales were used.

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I've answered that one Zoser - the Spanish thought they were heathens and wanted nothing more then their gold. There's that old story about thr Caliph of Alexandria burning the library saying "if it's not in the Koran it's heretical, if it's already in the Koran this is unnecessary", the samr thing is true in Sounth America' who cares how clever the heathens are, they have gold and they're heathens therefore they'e idiots.

Arrogance and greed have destroyed and ignored more discoveries then war ever could.

What that boils down to is that you don't know. You can't explain it. Thanks for trying.

Nickel Aluminum Bronze (Alloy #958)-

This alloy is 79% Copper, 10% Aluminum, 4% Iron, 2% Manganese and 5% Nickel. This alloy is more durable than 100% copper, Red and Yellow Brass. Hardness is approximately 150-190.

Soft Steel-

Hardness of under 30 on Rockwell C scale, around 279 Brinell.

You tell me what scales were used.

Tell me which is the hardest in the above list ?

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Because they weren't building megaliths. They were stealing stones from them to build their own dwellings. They saw the Inca as inferior and a people to be conquered. Why would they think that they could learn anything from them?

This has been explained several times. There were other cultures that the Inca absorbed as their empire grew. Different cultures had different styles. Notably the Tiwanaku. The ones who built Pumapunku.

The hole you showed did not appear to be very straight, though this could have been due to the camera angle. The "scorch marks" or whatever you called them are clearly seams in the rock.

The video that Abramelin, I believe, posted about the Indian stoneworkers quite clearly showed the precision and craftsmanship that can be achieved by hand.

Hopkins gave his personal opinion based upon the tools that he uses. This does not refute the fact that these things can and have been done by hand.

The copper bow and sand theory works. I have not watched this clip so I do not know what this refutation was, but I surmise it ends with "Aliens did it."

Again, already explained. The stones are worked by hand over and over and over again until they perfectly fit together.

Ok you have tried to address them. Thanks for trying.

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<snip>

These vaguely human creatures, seemed covered in scales and had in each hand a flying serpent, which seemed to twine around each arm, were only visible waist-up (ssems normal as they were in the water) and were screaming or roaring quite fiercely. They also swam under water from one spot to another distant one....

...d’autres avoient le corps comme corps humains, tout couverts d’escailles, mais la teste estoit en forme d’un dragon....

Others had human bodies, covered with scales, but with the head of a dragon.

<snip>

Again Im waiting. :st

Your scales:

Mali%C3%ABnkolder1.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_%28armour%29

Tell me which is the hardest in the above list ?

I asked YOU.

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Ok you have tried to address them. Thanks for trying.

You have a real **** attitude, you know.

No matter what anybody tells you or what evidence they produce, you are just going to ignore it if it doesn't fit your narrow view.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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Abe you think that in Nice and Genova didnt have those kind of scales so they died of panic.

Edited by the L

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We can add Brien Foerster to the list of AA proponents.

Foerster and Childress examine a precision block at PP which they conjecture must have been machined:

See 7:10 in the following clip (not posted to preserve copyright):

Ancient Aliens Season 4 Episode 6 The Mystery of Puma Punku

Edited by zoser

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