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Alphamale06

The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

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If you had a time machine and could take him back to witness this stuff personally, he would argue that your time machine does not work properly.

For one thing the matter composing the universe is in the condition and positions that it's in NOW so in order for your time travel fantasy to be as you imagine it, your "time machine" would have to be able to make all matter in the universe go back to the conditions and positions that it was in during the period you want to "return" to. That's the starting line on time travel. Can you get to the starting line with it? For another thing, IF a person were to operate their computer in the proper way they could do pretty much just as well by going back and reading the thread, unless it's been removed or editted or something. If a person were to do that they might notice that even then I was encouraging you to get to the starting line, and you couldn't get there.... And....

By far, the most vivid example of deliberate ignorance that I have ever seen in my life. No proof will be accepted, no explanation simple enough.

If I remember correctly you and other people gave me SEVERAL "explanations" about a couple of things but there's no way I could believe all of them. Also, and this part is significant from my pov even though not from yours, none of them seemed realistic enough to accept because they left too many questions for one thing. For another the photos made/make the claims seem false, from my pov. But! I did challenge everyone to try to figure out which one explanation they felt I, and if I it should be everyone else TOO!, should try to accept. And that aspect is a sort of starting line too, now that we mention it. Toe up.

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I would not consider science religion and AA Theory to be on the same playing field to be quite honest. As WOH said early in the piece, why do you lot throw God out and replace with Alien? What justifies that, and how does it help the problem? Do people feel intellectual choosing an Alien over God because space is sciencey stuff?

No to begin with it's because if God exists he would have to be an alien imo. If you think you can explain how he could be native to Earth then lets hear it, but when you can't we're left with him necessarily having to be an alien. It goes on from there of course, but that's the starting line. Come to think of it, this isn't the first time I've encouraged you to try to get to the starting line, is it? :no: I don't think so. Well, can you make it this time? If God exists, he would have to be an alien unless you can explain how he could be native to Earth. Try to get that far and THEN move on. Best of luck with this!

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No to begin with it's because if God exists he would have to be an alien imo.

There is quite a difference between an omnipotent creator at the center of a religion and a high tech alien civilization that evolved on another planet. Aliens could be mistaken for Gods but not the reverse I'm afraid.

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Given that more then a dozen documentaries have examined how to move rocks of that size and weight and demonstrated how to do so using contemporaneous materials and techniques then I have to ask "why do you think ancient man was stupid?".

You're telling me that it's common knowledge how ancient humans made all the structures they made, but this is the first I've been told that. Up until now I didn't think anybody knew, but according to you everybody knows. So, how did they cut hundred ton rocks, move them and stack them? Have you not seen the documentaries but just take it for granted that they explain everything? Why is there any question about how they did it? Or is there no question because everybody who cares knows how they did it?

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nopeda, on 19 November 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Nowhere on the entire planet? Or is it one particular area in which nothing out of the ordinary will happen and how do you know it won't?

I'll tell you what...

How about you make a concrete, definite, prediction about something that will happen on 21/12/2012 and I will predict that you will almost certainly be proven wrong...

That's interesting. First you claim that nothing unusual will happen, then you refuse to say exactly WHERE nothing unusual will happen. Then you ask me to make a prediction without clarifying the prediction that you made. The only thing I feel fairly confident about is that the Earth's orbit around the sun will remain pretty much unchanged, but that's just a "feeling" I've got because I feel they have that like they want it if they exist. Whether or not they'll change the rotation, or bring in more moons, or....how to speculate on that? Your challenge still remains. Here it is again:

Nowhere on the entire planet? Or is it one particular area in which nothing out of the ordinary will happen and how do you know it won't?

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Please don't think that we don't all know that person who made that "one estimate" was Giorgio Tsoukalos, a.k.a. Mr. Ancient Aliens. He isn't a scientist, or a specialist of any kind; he was a bodybuilder before he decided to monopolize on the ancient astronaut theory. He has been proved wrong on a number of his claims (in particular, his gross misestimations of the weights of ancient stone blocks has been duly noted). What makes you think that his completely unsubstantiated estimate with pertinence to the construction of the pyramid holds any more water than his other false claims?

What was his estimate about weight and what is the truth? What is the truth about how long they had for each block of stone?

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Umm... what "oddities"?

Light's emitted from objects at 186K miles per second in vacuum. Pretending the atmospheres of stars have no influence on the original velocity, which is probably wrong imo, we can say that some stars are moving towards us. If the star was stationary relative to us then its light should reach this area at 186..., but few if any stars are stationary relative to us so their velocity should be added to the velocity with which the light is emitted from them. It should also be subtracted when the stars are moving away from us. So something appears to adjust the velocity of light to eliminate the additional velocities relative to light's velocity, but not relative to its frequency. Oddities. It adjusts light to make it move slower, and also adjusts it to make it move faster, so it appears.

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Tone it down nopeda. The profanity filter is there for a reason.The expectation is that all members post in a civil manner.

Yeah, that's why public news groups have lost popularity imo. There you can say what you want, but in these moderated groups you can only say what whoever decides to let you say. So from my pov people who do forums should make the *majority!* of them open to people saying what they feel, but having "safe" forums where some people can go hide from the stuff they don't like if they can't handle the free zones. But that's just me, and apparently most people don't like the free zones. You folks don't have one at all, do you?

As a side note on profanity itself: When I first learned of the concept I immediately felt that it's not the words, and it's not the people using them, but the people who have problems with them that "are" the problem. Later I learned of languages in which there "is" no profanity. So does that mean that none of those people feel they're in a position that they should be telling other people what words they can and can't use? What else could it mean?

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When, pray tell, did the Dogon first tell us about this? Hint: it wasn't even two-hundred years ago...

What could give us confidence that your claim is correct?

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The fact that you choose to ignore the outright blatant lies put forth in the AA series and then quibble over semantics is quite telling.

What outright blatant lies are put forth in the AA series? I've known people in this forum to say they exist, but don't recall anyone giving specific examples. One person told me everything, which I know to be a lie, but otherwise nothing. So, what lies are you referring to?

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Just because you insist that something is unexplained does not mean that it is.

The fact that so far no one has provided it causes me to suspect it still might be, but if you can provide it then why don't you?

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nopeda, on 19 November 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

For one thing you don't know whether they did or not, and for another thing you have no reason to believe they didn't. In fact for all you know the human race would have died out a long time ago if they hadn't helped, and possibly wouldn't even exist. Are you forgetting that for about the first 190K years or so of human existence they lived like animals, and it's only in the fraction of about the last 10K years that humans began acting like humans...about the period of time that the xts would have had the most influence? If you're not forgetting about that do you want to deliberately ignore it, and if so why?

And you . . . we are animals . . . I very much doubt they visited us yet.

I find it amusing that some people can't think realistically about the possibility that xts have ever been to this planet yet they apparently have no problem considering the possibility that they could arrive tomorrow, or maybe even later on today. That's a huge and absurd mental restriction, from my pov. Certainly in now way a superior position to much of any other, if any other.

The fact that we're animals is included of my mention that for about the first 190K years or so of human existence they lived like animals, and it's only in the fraction of about the last 10K years that humans began acting like humans. Also the fact that no other animals are even close, none having any true language and none constructing and sort of true buildings and none making any sort of actual tools and none making use of fire, etc, is ALL evidence of xt influence from my pov.

Now back to you. Why do you want to ignore the aspects I pointed out?

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You skeptics just don't get it. Here is the ancient alien believer mantra. It should help you to understand better.

You got to accentuate the mythical

Eliminate the logical

Latch on to the preposterous

Don't mess with any of the facts

It's sure not my mantra, and most likely it's not anyone's. I'm not a believer either way, so I consider both possibilities. I do that same in regards to God and by now feel confident that xts and God and whatever all else are all tied together if such beings exist. Here's a list of things I included trying to think realistically about the possibility of God's existence:

1. If God exists he almost certainly would have to be an alien.

2. If there is a creator associated with this planet, all

who refer to him refer to the same being regardless of what

they call him or what they think about him.

3. Nothing that happens is supernatural, so anything gods do

would be natural for them.

4. If God exists and wants things to be as they are, he

could not provide proof of his existence because doing

so would change things too much.

5. Since the terms omnipotent and omniscient appear to

make themselves impossible, it's unrealistic to try assigning

those particular characteristics to God if he exists.

6. Since disbelief is a form of belief, the degree of faith a

person has that God does not exist is what determines how

strong an atheist he or she is, or is not.

7. People who have put their faith in a belief often/usually find

it impossible to comprehend the ability of considering the possibility

that God does not exist and also the possibility that he does.

8. People who have put their faith in a belief often/usually find

it impossible to comprehend much less appreciate basic number 2.

9. People who claim to be strong atheists often/usually asburdly

try to deny their own faith that God does not exist...faith which is

a necessary part of being a strong atheist.

10. Whether God exists or not it seems apparent that life must have

originated from lifelessness to begin with, and may do it fairly often.

11. We should not allow what appear to be conflicting or unlikely

beliefs encouraged by other people--however absurd--to contaminate

and interfere with our own attempts to think about this topic

realistically.

12. We should not allow childlike and unrealistic attempts at comparing

the concept of gods with those of childlike ideas like the tooth fairy,

the Easter Bunny, invisible pink unicorns, spaghetti monsters etc

encouraged by other people--however absurd--to contaminate and interfere

with our own attempts to think about this topic realistically.

13. If gods exist they would necessarily have to be technologically

advanced far beyond we humans on Earth, to the point that they became

gods.

14. If God exists he almost certainly would not be restricted to any

particular body, form, or gender. (disclaimer: I refer to God as "he" out

of convenience and because that's how we are encouraged to refer to "him"

in most if not all canonical texts.)

15. If God exists it seems most likely that he has as much influence

over the content of canonical texts as he wants to have.

16. If God exists, it seems quite clear he makes use of the evolutionary

method of creation.

17. If there are things which people consider to be spiritual, they are

most likely actually physical in ways we just can't appreciate yet.

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There are some funny things that happen in the mind when someone wants something to be true badly enough.

I've noticed. In another thread people very badly wanted some carvings to have been carved over, been plastered over, been plastered over and carved over, been plastered over and it "all" fell out, and all resulting super coincidentally in a group of carvings looking like a group of different types of air vehicles. People want very badly for some or all of the above things to be true. From my pov it's impossible for all of them to be true, and so far no one has decided which of the possibilities we should try to believe. One thing they don't consider that I do is that the carvings were intended to look as they do. And even though the carvings LOOK as though they were carved to look as they do, people want very badly to believe one or more of the various other unlikely seeming possibilities. :lol: It is sort of amusing. People want very badly for those carvings not to have been carved to appear as they do. Oh, one more thing people sometimes claimed is that the carvings don't look like air vehicles, even though we wouldn't be having discussions about why they do if they did not.

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_________________________________________________________

psyche101, on 18 November 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

In fact there were 19 Jesus' of Nazareth.

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

That is a minimum sure. Had you read the link I left you, you would see there could be more and none of them originated in Nazareth, but many passed through the area.

I prefer to leave you links as opposed to discussion because I find you outstandingly rude, and because of your manner I do not like you. Not one bit.

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There is quite a difference between an omnipotent creator at the center of a religion and a high tech alien civilization that evolved on another planet. Aliens could be mistaken for Gods but not the reverse I'm afraid.

If God does exist he would pretty much have to be from a high tech alien civilization that evolved on another planet. What other options are you imagining there could possibly be???

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You're telling me that it's common knowledge how ancient humans made all the structures they made, but this is the first I've been told that. Up until now I didn't think anybody knew, but according to you everybody knows. So, how did they cut hundred ton rocks, move them and stack them? Have you not seen the documentaries but just take it for granted that they explain everything? Why is there any question about how they did it? Or is there no question because everybody who cares knows how they did it?

No, I'm saying men and women who unlik us are experts in the field of history, archaeology and engineering, have using the tools we commonly believe were available to man then, repeated the feats of quarryong, preparing and transporting stones of the sacle seen in Stonehenge and the Pyramids.

The questions remain whether or not they used the presented techniques, for example I've seen three different programs with three different ways of transporting the Megalyths at Stonehenge. However, none of them resorted to sayimh "Merlin levatated them into place" or "it was aliens".

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If God does exist he would pretty much have to be from a high tech alien civilization that evolved on another planet. What other options are you imagining there could possibly be???

well there is always the "He's God, supernatural creator of all, omnioptent, omnipresent, King of King etc etc".

But hey, that's just crazy talk.

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For one thing the matter composing the universe is in the condition and positions that it's in NOW so in order for your time travel fantasy to be as you imagine it, your "time machine" would have to be able to make all matter in the universe go back to the conditions and positions that it was in during the period you want to "return" to. That's the starting line on time travel. Can you get to the starting line with it? For another thing, IF a person were to operate their computer in the proper way they could do pretty much just as well by going back and reading the thread, unless it's been removed or editted or something. If a person were to do that they might notice that even then I was encouraging you to get to the starting line, and you couldn't get there.... And....

Have you ever considered improving your grammar?

You do not only have to make matter appear in the correct order, but the correct place, We are travelling through space constantly. Half an hour ago would leave you standing in free space, or perhaps the middle of a sun. And that might not at all alter the way of things if one could do so. Theories abound on time travel, and none have been proven, from the Grandfather paradox to the "Picture frame" explanation.

Do not encourage me, I have no desire to go backwards, and I have no desire to experience your personal "charm".

If I remember correctly you and other people gave me SEVERAL "explanations" about a couple of things but there's no way I could believe all of them. Also, and this part is significant from my pov even though not from yours, none of them seemed realistic enough to accept because they left too many questions for one thing. For another the photos made/make the claims seem false, from my pov. But! I did challenge everyone to try to figure out which one explanation they felt I, and if I it should be everyone else TOO!, should try to accept. And that aspect is a sort of starting line too, now that we mention it. Toe up.

I and all other that have been unfortunate enough to make your acquaintance would all replace your word "Believe" up there with "understand" For some reason you seem to think your ignorance of the subject is somehow an advanced way of looking at the equation, however, you are alone in that thought.

Seem false LOL, where is your falsification of the concept? Karl Popper would be ashamed! Just saying "I do not get it" Is not falsification. It's a personal prompt.

You could have asked questions in a civil way and had a very productive conversation, but you seem happier otherwise. I guess you just enjoy upsetting other people? You would not be the first one I have met.

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No to begin with it's because if God exists he would have to be an alien imo. If you think you can explain how he could be native to Earth then lets hear it, but when you can't we're left with him necessarily having to be an alien. It goes on from there of course, but that's the starting line. Come to think of it, this isn't the first time I've encouraged you to try to get to the starting line, is it? :no: I don't think so. Well, can you make it this time? If God exists, he would have to be an alien unless you can explain how he could be native to Earth. Try to get that far and THEN move on. Best of luck with this!

I have already told you that I am agnostic. IMHO, Jesus was a carpenter who tried to make the world a better place, and individuals will measure that success in varying degrees. There is more than enough solid outright proof of evolution. As Hawking said: God is not required.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to ... set the Universe going."

Pop that in your starting line.

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Yeah, that's why public news groups have lost popularity imo. There you can say what you want, but in these moderated groups you can only say what whoever decides to let you say. So from my pov people who do forums should make the *majority!* of them open to people saying what they feel, but having "safe" forums where some people can go hide from the stuff they don't like if they can't handle the free zones. But that's just me, and apparently most people don't like the free zones. You folks don't have one at all, do you?

As a side note on profanity itself: When I first learned of the concept I immediately felt that it's not the words, and it's not the people using them, but the people who have problems with them that "are" the problem. Later I learned of languages in which there "is" no profanity. So does that mean that none of those people feel they're in a position that they should be telling other people what words they can and can't use? What else could it mean?

The concept of a civil manner is totally foreign to you isn't it?

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The fact that so far no one has provided it causes me to suspect it still might be, but if you can provide it then why don't you?

It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Said Redford, the image most people have of slaves being forced to build the pyramids against their will is incorrect. "The concept of slavery is a very complicated problem in ancient Egypt," he noted, "because the legal aspects of indentured servitude and slavery were very complicated." The peasants who worked on the pyramids were given tax breaks and were taken to 'pyramid cities' where they were given shelter, food and clothing, he noted.

According to Redford, ancient Egyptian quarrying methods -- the processes for cutting and removing stone -- are still being studied. Scholars have found evidence that copper chisels were using for quarrying sandstone and limestone, for example, but harder stones such as granite and diorite would have required stronger materials, said Redford. Dolerite, a hard, black igneous rock, was used in the quarries of Aswan to remove granite.

During excavation, massive dolerite "pounders" were used to pulverize the stone around the edge of the granite block that needed to be extracted. According to Redford, 60 to 70 men would pound out the stone. At the bottom, they rammed wooden pegs into slots they had cut, and filled the slots with water. The pegs would expand, splitting the stone, and the block was then slid down onto a waiting boat.

Teams of oxen or manpower were used to drag the stones on a prepared slipway that was lubricated with oil. Said Redford, a scene from a 19th century B.C. tomb in Middle Egypt depicts "an alabaster statue 20 feet high pulled by 173 men on four ropes with a man lubricating the slipway as the pulling went on."

Once the stones were at the construction site, ramps were built to get them into place on the pyramid, said Redford. These ramps were made of mud brick and coated with chips of plaster to harden the surface. "If they consistently raised the ramp course by course as the teams dragged their blocks up, they could have gotten them into place fairly easily," he noted. At least one such ramp still exists, he said.

When answering to skepticism about how such heavy stones could have been moved without machinery, Redford says, "I usually show the skeptic a picture of 20 of my workers at an archaeological dig site pulling up a two-and-a-half ton granite block." He added, "I know it's possible because I was on the ropes too." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080328104302.htm

If this man can replicate stonehenge in backyard by himself, I'm sure that a few tens of thousands of Egyptians could easily build the pyramids. Without alien intervention.

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, but few if any stars are stationary relative to us so their velocity should be added to the velocity with which the light is emitted from them. It should also be subtracted when the stars are moving away from us.

Special relativity.

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I would be surprised if that very answer has been offered to that very poster less than 30 times.

To no avail. It's the rest of the world you see. It is apparently the entire globe that "does not get it". Nor did Einstein, Newton, Kepler, and as for Hawking - pffffftttt fantasy and magic!

Once you realise that, the rest becomes crystal. ;)

Edited by psyche101
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We could go back and forth all day about whether aliens built this or that and never come to a conclusion that all could agree with. But the one standout for me that cannot be explained without referring to alien intervention is Puma Punku. The combined elements are, to me beyond explanation. From the mass produced precision of the individual components to the powerful destruction it seems beyond the capabilities of man of any age, let alone primitives that predate most known civilisations. Add to that the fact that it was built at an altitude where food doesn't grow so it would have been impossible to maintain the vast labor forces that are usually part of traditional scenarios used to explain massive construction projects. Even if one were to somehow explain the transportation of huge slabs of rock how does one account for the daily transportation of food and supplies for an army of laborers in a culture that did not even possess the wheel?

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