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Raptor Witness

A Gaza ground invasion leads us where?

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The Muslim brotherhood is under attack in Gaza, and the expectations in the American media are that the Egyptians care more about water than blood.

It's the kind of miscalculation we've seen before. People are caught off guard, because they can't believe the worst could happen.

Hurricane Isaac, returning to New Orleans seven years to the day; following Katrina, and hurricane Sandy arriving on a full moon, at high tide, in the most densely populated area of North America, are similar miscalculations.

The only difference in forecasting war is that human emotion is the wind.

My Forecast:

I'm driving home one night and I encounter a vehicle pulled over to the side of the road. I see a family standing beside an older model car, with the hood up. As I approach the front, I can see the engine is so hot that it glows red with steam coming out of the radiator. I wonder to myself, how could an engine get so hot and still function?

I offer the family a ride home, and notice their poverty stricken neighborhood. I feel good because I've done them a favor, and lucky I don't live there. It's a risk I rarely would have taken, but seeing an entire family standing by the roadside, gave me pause.

When Israel attacks Gaza, the Egyptians and all the Muslim brotherhood will see a family standing beside the road, and they will have pity on them. They will offer this family a ride home.

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It is certainly a test of Morsi. If Egypt decides to come in on the side of the Palestinians then a regional war (not Armageddon) probably happens. For those who want a bit of an eye opener I refer you to Psalm 83. Read it and read a commentary on it to see which modern nations are being described. It basically describes all the neighbors that share a border with Israel coming against her in war and being soundly defeated by her. Pretty unbelievable, right? I'm not saying that is what is about to happen but it could - and that is pretty remarkable.

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A Gaza ground invasion leads us where?

There's no long term benefits to a ground invasion imo..

Short term, maybe the IDF might be able to stop the rocket rain.. for a while..

Long Term, well, it will only stir more trouble for the whole region, and ignite more support for Hamas, also there'll be no guarantee that the rockets won't start flying from Egipt, which on some accounts they already have been..

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A Gaza ground invasion leads us where?

There's no long term benefits to a ground invasion imo..

Short term, maybe the IDF might be able to stop the rocket rain.. for a while..

Long Term, well, it will only stir more trouble for the whole region, and ignite more support for Hamas, also there'll be no guarantee that the rockets won't start flying from Egipt, which on some accounts they already have been..

Maybe not, probably not, but what else are they to do? Run to shelters and just bury their dead from now on without striking back? Hamas is run by people like Jabarii(?) who Israel just assassinated. He would not even speak to a Jew. His negotiations were for "hudna" not for peace. And he was very clear about this - no peace EVER. So with that mindset the problem just keeps going on and on. Now Iran is supplying missiles that can literally paralyze the entire country north to south any time they wish. If there were a chance of actually negotiating an end to this I would be all for that but there doesn't seem to be that chance. At some point a regional war will ensue and I hope we are talking with the Russians about how to handle it when it comes so that no mistakes are made in the heat of the moment.

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something to ponder, maybe Israel is taking out / softening Hamas before a strike on Iran. its well known Iran funds Hamas, its the worst kept secret that Israel will likely strike Iran in the not to distant future. spring 2013- imagine if these latest troubles (gaza) hadn't taken place and Israel attacks Iran, within hours Hamas would be firing into Israel. with Iran on the other front doing the same. :unsure2:

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Far more Palestinians have been killed that Israelis and I am not aware of any deaths caused by Palestinians in the last couple of years. Maybe I missed a news story but it appears the recent attack is not justified and I am really distressed by US news that seems to distort reality?

http://www.ifamerica...ats/deaths.html

This violence following the election of Obama is suspect. The Jewish lobbying and spending on our politics is perhaps a greater thread to us than big industry lobbying. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703509104576331661918527154.html

Edited by me-wonders

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Far more Palestinians have been killed that Israelis and I am not aware of any deaths caused by Palestinians in the last couple of years. Maybe I missed a news story but it appears the recent attack is not justified and I am really distressed by US news that seems to distort reality?

http://www.ifamerica...ts/deaths.html

This violence following the election of Obama is suspect. The Jewish lobbying and spending on our politics is perhaps a greater thread to us than big industry lobbying. http://online.wsj.co...1918527154.html

No Israeli had been killed in 3 years. Palestinians though had been killed on a weekly basis.

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Far more Palestinians have been killed that Israelis and I am not aware of any deaths caused by Palestinians in the last couple of years. Maybe I missed a news story but it appears the recent attack is not justified and I am really distressed by US news that seems to distort reality?

http://www.ifamerica...ts/deaths.html

This violence following the election of Obama is suspect. The Jewish lobbying and spending on our politics is perhaps a greater thread to us than big industry lobbying. http://online.wsj.co...1918527154.html

Perhaps you missed the news reports of missiles falling in ever larger numbers over the past weeks? It's easy to let reports like that fall into the background buzz of the news of the world because it isn't often the press makes a big deal of it. The reason not as many Israelis are killed is simple - they have YEARS of practice in running and hiding from the rockets. They have developed concrete bunkers within many of their homes for self protection and finally, they have taught their children where all the bunkers are in public and drilled them on how to run for them in fear of their lives at the sound of the sirens they hear weekly. What a way to live, right? The opposite side of that is that Hamas uses the hatred of the Jews as well as, I suspect, fear of retribution to cause Palestinians to allow rockets and mortars to be stored in or near mosques, schools and even homes so that Israel MUST kill civilians if they will destroy the weapons or fighters. This is not propaganda, it has been proven to be true. This situation on the ground is happening largely due to Hamas importing a new, more effective weapon that can reach into Tel Aviv and Jerusalem (why Jerusalem?) and cause panic among MILLIONS of Israelis at will. No country can allow such disruptions indefinitely.

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Replying to A Gaza ground invasion leads us where?

Well according to Israeli pundits a decisive conclusion that ends in a Palestinain holocaust is where it all leads to:

'A decisive conclusion is necessary'

By GILAD SHARON

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip....

Read: http://www.jpost.com...92466&R=R1&utm_

Israeli minister vows Palestinian 'holocaust'

By Tim Butcher

A senior Israeli politician provoked controversy today when he warned that Palestinians firing rockets from Gaza would be punished with a "bigger holocaust" from Israeli armed forces.

The use of the Hebrew word for holocaust, "shoah", tends to be used exclusively in Israel to describe the Nazi persecution of Jews.....

Read: http://www.telegraph...-holocaust.html

news-graphics-2008-_657646a.jpg

Relatives of a Palestinian boy killed in an Israeli rocket attack

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN
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The irony of the Gaza Ghetto is as hard to escape, as the place.

We wait for the inevitable. We wait for the horror, followed by the final solution; or the final solution, followed by the horror.

Only a world government, exercising authority over all the land could stop this disaster, but that won't appear until the need arises.

So what creates this need? What new horror would it take?

Could we forecast it, or perhaps even stop it?

I think so.

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The irony of the Gaza Ghetto is as hard to escape, as the place.

We wait for the inevitable. We wait for the horror, followed by the final solution; or the final solution, followed by the horror.

Only a world government, exercising authority over all the land could stop this disaster, but that won't appear until the need arises.

So what creates this need? What new horror would it take?

Could we forecast it, or perhaps even stop it?

I think so.

Those who are following Biblical prophecy anticipate such things and have for some time now. I believe that the conflict described in Psalm 83 might be the thing that creates this "need" you mention. It seems to describe a regional war between Israel and ALL of her neighbors (those it shares a border with) and ultimately a resounding victory of Israel over them all. If such a thing did take place then the world would be stunned, breathless, THEN outraged. Israel would basically be forced to the peace table. But the upside is that Israel would feel it COULD make peace at that point - having vanquished most of it's foes who are the greatest immediate threat. The cost would be great for all concerned but I fail to see any plausible PEACEFUL alternative to this scenario.

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You don't have to believe a prophet, to be influenced by his power. If enough people believe what he says, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, regardless.

Zechariah 12:3

On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

This points to the mechanism of world unification, but the type of injury isn't clear. It just says that it will be self-inflicted.

That verse is largely why Israel never gives up Jerusalem. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, a lack of faith at this juncture would be punishable by diaspora, and even secular Jewish Israeli's believe the basics.

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something to ponder, maybe Israel is taking out / softening Hamas before a strike on Iran. its well known Iran funds Hamas, its the worst kept secret that Israel will likely strike Iran in the not to distant future. spring 2013- imagine if these latest troubles (gaza) hadn't taken place and Israel attacks Iran, within hours Hamas would be firing into Israel. with Iran on the other front doing the same. :unsure2:

That is actually a very good point. Why risk being attacked by two opponents at the same time when you can remove them one at a time.

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Replying to A Gaza ground invasion leads us where?

Well according to Israeli pundits a decisive conclusion that ends in a Palestinain holocaust is where it all leads to:

'A decisive conclusion is necessary'

By GILAD SHARON

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip....

Read: http://www.jpost.com...92466&R=R1&utm_

Israeli minister vows Palestinian 'holocaust'

By Tim Butcher

A senior Israeli politician provoked controversy today when he warned that Palestinians firing rockets from Gaza would be punished with a "bigger holocaust" from Israeli armed forces.

The use of the Hebrew word for holocaust, "shoah", tends to be used exclusively in Israel to describe the Nazi persecution of Jews.....

Read: http://www.telegraph...-holocaust.html

news-graphics-2008-_657646a.jpg

Relatives of a Palestinian boy killed in an Israeli rocket attack

Do Minister of a country threatening to bring Holocaust to another race deserved the rocket gunships, tanks, phosphorus shells , cluster bombs to do what

they want to do in keeping of land that they stole?

And the other side allowed only sticks and stones and crude rockets to fight back with?

DISARM ALL OF THEM.

Let them fight on equal level ground.

OR let them fight with equal firepower.

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Do Minister of a country threatening to bring Holocaust to another race deserved the rocket gunships, tanks, phosphorus shells , cluster bombs to do what

they want to do in keeping of land that they stole?

And the other side allowed only sticks and stones and crude rockets to fight back with?

DISARM ALL OF THEM.

Let them fight on equal level ground.

OR let them fight with equal firepower.

And who will disarm them? The Jews of Israel - no matter the viewpoint of their detractors - consider their survival as a distinct group - a family, even - to be a miracle of God (I agree) And they have said repeatedly to anyone who cares to take note that they will never again be subjected to slaughter, at least not without taking their enemies with them. So even though most of the world disagrees with them the reality is that they are in the land, they are the most powerful army and air force in the region and in the last analysis, they have a nuclear umbrella for last stand defense. So no one will TAKE their arms. They will have to be convinced to surrender them. That can never happen while enemies are sending rockets on their cities and those rockets will never stop as long as Palestinians have a breath and the support of the Arab states and Iran. So as nice as it might be to wish for a grand bargain that humbles the Israelis, it just isn't on the cards. They accept months or even years of rocket, missile and mortar fire that almost paralyses their southern communities and almost no one bats an eye...Israel strikes back and the world is coming to an end. It's bias at best. I think this ends eventually in a massive regional war. If two cannot have a meeting of the minds then eventually one has to be removed from the picture.

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And who will disarm them?

.

.

They will have to be convinced to surrender them.

Let Hamas be armed to the same extent of Israel.

Let the fight be done with equality on all sides.

Then we see how brave the Israelis can be when they are bombed and shelled the same way as they do to others.

And if Israel be convinced that true peace must take place instead of the one sided bullying done by them.

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Regarding the cease fire that began today, apparently the U.S. has agreed to give the Egypt some additional money to guard those tunnels into Gaza from its border, and President Obama agreed to step up naval operations in the region to guard against the shipment of long range missile components, from Iran.

It's a band-aid of course, but far better than a risky ground invasion of Gaza.

Both sides could equally save face at this point. Hamas showed it had some balls, and Israel got to show off her new Iron Dome air defense capability.

It's a good place to stop the fighting and count the cards still in the deck.

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Regarding the cease fire that began today, apparently the U.S. has agreed to give the Egypt some additional money to guard those tunnels into Gaza from its border, and President Obama agreed to step up naval operations in the region to guard against the shipment of long range missile components, from Iran.

It's a band-aid of course, but far better than a risky ground invasion of Gaza.

Both sides could equally save face at this point. Hamas showed it had some balls, and Israel got to show off her new Iron Dome air defense capability.

It's a good place to stop the fighting and count the cards still in the deck.

Another "benefit" of this conflict is as a dry run for the people of Israel to see some of what would be in store if they attack Iran. They are now "informed consumers". If they go now they will do so knowing what to expect. If Netanyahu allowed Obama to stop him on this then there certainly will be no Iran adventure and I suspect that Likud will be toast in the next election. The Israeli public seem as fickle on leadership as Americans are. All for the best, I suppose.

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And the attack is followed by yet another Palestinian request for UN protection.. Which is followed by Israel announcing its intent increase its settlement building.

http://www.guardian....rael-settlement

Personally, if Israel were to face a serious attack, I would not be in favor of defending it, and I think the US has been horribly wrong to protect Israel, and increase its ability to destroy with military weapons. We should do what Eisenhower did when he was president. Cut the aid we give Israel. To achieve anything, we have to get the Zionist out of our political system.

:tu: Of course it isn't too late for these idiots to give real meaning to 12-21-20012.

Edited by me-wonders

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And the attack is followed by yet another Palestinian request for UN protection.. Which is followed by Israel announcing its intent increase its settlement building.

http://www.guardian....rael-settlement

Personally, if Israel were to face a serious attack, I would not be in favor of defending it, and I think the US has been horribly wrong to protect Israel, and increase its ability to destroy with military weapons. We should do what Eisenhower did when he was president. Cut the aid we give Israel. To achieve anything, we have to get the Zionist out of our political system.

:tu: Of course it isn't too late for these idiots to give real meaning to 12-21-20012.

Israel is a tiny nation with a vastly superior military. It's existence has been challenged since day one, literally. I support their right to exist at all costs but I also understand the sentiments of those who oppose her policies. One aspect of the Israel/Palestine issue that most people will not discuss is the elephant in the room IMO. When the day arrives - as it will - that all the nations on earth have decided to withdraw any support for Israel and to even take up arms against this State, what do you suppose will be the outcome?

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I think we also need to know who the allies are and how armed they are? It is my understanding the US is largely responsible for the military build up of Israel and I think this was a bad choice for the US. It goes with granting arms to other mid east countries as well, and then selling the weapons, escalating the destruction of war, to benefit US interest. I wonder how history will look at this? And it is so much about oil, a finite resource. Oil money is used to buy weapons and these countries will not peacefully fall into poverty when they exhaust their supply of oil. Too bad we ignore Socrates and the obvious consequences of our decisions.

Edited by me-wonders

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I think we also need to know who the allies are and how armed they are? It is my understanding the US is largely responsible for the military build up of Israel and I think this was a bad choice for the US. It goes with granting arms to other mid east countries as well, and then selling the weapons, escalating the destruction of war, to benefit US interest. I wonder how history will look at this? And it is so much about oil, a finite resource. Oil money is used to buy weapons and these countries will not peacefully fall into poverty when they exhaust their supply of oil. Too bad we ignore Socrates and the obvious consequences of our decisions.

I agree that the wholesale arming of countries for profit is a detestable thing that has caused mankind no end of suffering. I think that where Israel is concerned, the turning point came in the late 1960's. France helped Israel, some say with stolen US uranium, to become a nuclear power. Once that happened the US was connected at the hip with our middle east ally for all time. Israel is so small that they can lose only once. Their enemies are so full of hatred for them (justified or not) that they will not just take land and be satisfied. Their goal is to annihilate the Jewish State - they've said so many times. So from Israeli's pov, to lose means to see their children slaughtered. Since NO ONE would allow this to happen if they could stop it and since the Jews have seen this movie before, they can be expected to use those nukes if they know they are going down. This is why it is insane for all the countries of the world to act as if Israel can be talked, cajoled or shamed into making a deal that will leave them nearly defenseless against their enemies. Yet they still keep pushing and pressuring Israel into a tighter and tighter corner. The Iranian bomb will be like the lighting of a fuse, the beginning of the countdown.

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State, what do you suppose will be the outcome?

If they fall victim to their own doing, that is technically not the rest of the worlds problem. Just being devils advocate here, but if your friend is bullying a bunch of people, its his fault he gets ganged up on if you don't protect him, not yours.

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If they fall victim to their own doing, that is technically not the rest of the worlds problem. Just being devils advocate here, but if your friend is bullying a bunch of people, its his fault he gets ganged up on if you don't protect him, not yours.

True enough, but if he then defends himself in a way that burns down the entire neighborhood and maybe the whole town, well the concerns are a little greater for everyone wouldn't you say? It's a point that no one seems willing to admit - or even talk about - but I guarantee you it is the strongest reason for the US being so accommodating to Israel on their self defense needs. The grim truth is that if Israel is left to it's own devices and it's neighbors someday decide to "cut the cancer" then capitols from Baghdad to Cairo to Tunis, Tehran and Damascus will become embers and the serious, policy makers in our government know this. It's not exactly extortion, not as much as what Pakistan is doing but it is a very real issue. Never Again is a battle cry and a warning to those who would try to destroy these people just because of who they are. And that IS the rest of the world's problem.

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