Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
TheMacGuffin

UFOs with Speeds up to 27,000 MPH

472 posts in this topic

According to this 1949 FBI report, the objects were spherical and extremely fast, with speeds of three miles per second up to twelve miles per second, or 27,000 miles per hour. They were first seen in December 1948 and kept returning night after night, usually singly but sometimes in groups.

Their flight path was East to West and usually level, although sometimes vertical motion was also observed, and their altitude was six to ten miles. Almost always the Los Alamos nuclear labs seemed to be their main "target".

Calling them "green fireballs" was inaccurate since they could also be red, orange, white or blue, and one spectrum analysis indicated that they were composed of copper compounds similar to those being used in rocket experiments at that time. Some people speculated that they had a self-destruct mechanism, but in any case they disappeared as fast as they appeared and left no physical traces.

There was no scientific explanation for them, except that there were some never-before seen natural phenomenon or they were man made.

This is just a confidential memorandum, but I have seen some documents related to this case that were classified more highly than that, such as the conclusions by Dr. Lincoln LaPaz that there were definitely not meteorites.

This case was first and foremost an Army matter because it was responsible for the security of Los Alamos and these other nuclear installations, and this issue was taken very seriously.

1949-1-31-FBI.JPG

http://keyholepublishing.com/1949-1-31-FBI-2.JPG

http://keyholepublishing.com/1949-1-31-FBI-3.JPG

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the type of "classic" UFO case that always got my interest, especially because it was never really explained. Richard Dolan regards it as one of the cases that generated some of the most interesting and important UFO documents of all time, like these:

1949-1-31-FBI-2.JPG

1949-1-31-FBI-3.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was no scientific explanation for them, except that there were some never-before seen natural phenomenon or they were man made.

I thought they were explained as typical meteors with an intense shockwave that creates a phenomena similar to an aurora?

I'll have a look for a link - Here it is - Green Fireballs and Ball Lightning. LINK

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought they were explained as typical meteors with an intense shockwave that creates a phenomena similar to an aurora?

I'll have a look for a link - Here it is - Green Fireballs and Ball Lightning. LINK

Never saw that one before. There was an investigation of these UFOs called Project Twinkle, which ended in 1951, but it reached no definite conclusions, at least not according to the records available now.

The military decided not to declassify these records in 1952, when the study had been officially completed because they had no explanation:

"The Scientific Advisory Board Secretariat has suggested that this project not be

declassified for a variety of reasons, chief among which is that no scientific explanation for

any of the 'fireballs' and other phenomena was revealed by the (Project Twinkle) report and

that some reputable scientists still believe that the observed phenomena are man-made."

Another letter, this time from the Directorate of Intelligence to the Research Division

of the Directorate of Research and Development, dated March 11, 1952, adds another reason

for withholding the information from the public:

"It is believed that a release of the information to the public in its present condition would

cause undue speculation and give rise to unwarranted fears among the populace such as occurred

in previous releases on unidentified flying objects. This results from releases when there has

been no real solution."

Gen. William Garland, who had a very long involvement with UFO investigations from the 1940s to the 1960s stated that he did not believe the UFOs were missiles but declined to say what he thought they were. We know what he thought about UFOs in private, but I have never really seen any public record about his real opinions.

http://www.google.co...29,r:3,s:0,i:97

Edited by TheMacGuffin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At one time, Dr. Lincoln LaPaz theorized that they were Soviet missiles flying at an altitude of 25 miles and a speed of 15 miles per second. This was in February 1949, though, and in all the years since no one has been able to identify any Soviet missiles or aircraft that could have been flying over the US at that time.

They simply did not exist in 1949.

FBI%202.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to this 1950 FBI document, there had been 150 sightings of these objects since December 1948, usually in New Mexico and the vicinity of Los Alamos.

We also see that calling them "Green Fireballs" was a complete misnomer because they weren't always green and didn't always have a spherical shape.

FBI%204A.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 1950, Lincoln LaPaz again speculated that they might be Russian missiles launched from the Urals or US guided missiles, but here again, I am not aware that anyone has even been able to identify them as missiles at all, either from the US or Russia. LaPaz said that maybe half of them were real meteorites but the rest had to be missiles.

FBI%204B.jpg

FBI%204C.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They did get some pictures of them at least once, as this 1950 report indicates, which says they were at an altitude of 150,000 feet, about 30 feet in diameter, and traveling at high speeds.

WhiteSands2.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Size and speed does not negate a meteor though. We get hit with one about the size of a car at least once a year, and they need to be about 25 meters across to survive re-entry and still make it to the surface, allowing it to upgrade it's status to meteorite. Anything smaller is likely to burn up before it hits the ground, and meteors move at about 30 times the speed of a bullet, so they are pretty darn quick.

All the specs fit in with a meteor moving at higher than normal speeds. That may not be the case, but according to the information, I do not think it rules out a meteor with what we know of them today.

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Size and speed does not negate a meteor though. We get hit with one about the size of a car at least once a year, and they need to be about 25 meters across to survive re-entry and still make it to the surface, allowing it to upgrade it's status to meteorite. Anything smaller is likely to burn up before it hits the ground, and meteors move at about 30 times the speed of a bullet, so they are pretty darn quick.

All the specs fit in with a meteor moving at higher than normal speeds. That may not be the case, but according to the information, I do not think it rules out a meteor with what we know of them today.

Project Twinkle issued a final report in November 1951 which stated basically that there was nothing to report and no further funds should be spent on it. It is true that the number of sightings seemed to drop off after the project was started.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CEAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.project1947.com%2Fgfb%2Ftwinklereport.htm&ei=NuitULvKGI6q8AT1xoHwCg&usg=AFQjCNEipQE-K8CVlanOSL5RJmniuVu4Ug&sig2=Qh8uoA0ZEzzbdHSRFFRbfA

Yet they did some some objects that they couldn't explain, and the Air Force was alerted to be ready to send up planes after them, although they were not authorized to open fire in this instance.

"Some photographic activity occurred on 27 April and 24 May, but simultaneous sightings by both cameras were not made, so that no information was gained. On 30 August 1950, during a Bell aircraft missile launching, aerial phenomena were observed over Holloman Air Force Base by several individuals; however, neither Land-Air nor Project personnel were notified and, therefore, no results were acquired. On 31 August 1950, the phenomena were again observed after a V-2 launching. Although much film was expended, proper triangulation was not effected, so that again no information was acquired.

On 11 September, arrangements were made by Holloman AFB for. Major. Gover, Commander 93rd Fighter Squadron at Kirtland AFB, to be on call so that aerial objects might be pursued. This would make possible more intimate visual observation and photography at close range. Major Gover was not authorized to shoot at the phenomena."

Some parts of the report were clearly not true, such as stating that Clyde Tombaugh had never seen a UFO:

"Mr. B. Guildenberg, who is an assistant to Major Doty and an active amateur astronomer, commented that he has been spending several hours at his telescope almost every night for the past few years and never once observed an unexplainable object; that on one occasion, an excited acquaintance was pacified when a "strange object" showed up as an eagle in the telescope; that Clyde Tombaugh, discoverer of the planet Pluto and now engaged in activities at White Sands, never observed an unexplainable aerial object despite his continuous and extensive observations of the sky; that Fred Whipple in his work photographing meteors at Las Cruces, never detected a strange aerial object with his Schmidt cameras; and that the A and M College at Las Cruces engages in astronomical observations but had never observed strange aerial phenomena."

This report also mentioned that film had been taken of the UFOs but there was no money in the contract to analyze it! This was not true either since Edward Ruppelt found out later that such an analysis had been done on at least one occasion. Bruce Maccabee speculates that this report was written to satisfy the Project Grudge group, who had been order to play down the whole subject of UFOs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one has ever been able to locate any of these Project Twinkle films, although Edward Ruppelt did speak to the men who analyzed them. The final report did not list the triangulation that had been performed on April 27, 1950 that determined the size and altitude of four to eight of these UFOs, and Ruppelt evidently wasn't told about it either. He said that he learned:

"Nothing concrete except that the UFOs were unknowns. He did say that by putting a correction factor in the data gathered by the two cameras they were able to arrive at a rough estimate of speed, altitude and size. The UFO was 'higher than 40,000 feet, traveling over 2,000 miles per hour, and it was over 300 feet in diameter.' He cautioned me that these figures were only estimates, based on the possibly erroneous correction factor; therefore they weren't proof of anything - except that something was in the air."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CE8QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrumac.8k.com%2FWhiteSandsProof%2FWhiteSandsProof.html&ei=heWtUObyNIGS9QSCooDoCA&usg=AFQjCNHx2rPnlX70iE263jUEYaRcPqlqlg&sig2=3nMmbfJBuZR8UafOV3NTmQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dr. Anthony Mirarchi, who directed Project Twinkle in its first phase in 1950, thought that the UFOs were Russian missiles and blamed "spies" for the falloff in reports once all the cameras and equipment were in place.

"The fireballs mysteriously ceased appearing before the theodolites could go to work. Dr. Mirarchi concludes that spies must have tipped off the saucers' home base."

Mirarchi referred to two sightings for which there was photographic evidence: a single photo of a round glowing object and a motionpicture which "showed one streaking across the sky for one and a half minutes." Mirarchi went on to say that he was aware that some sightings were actually sightings of balloons, but that "there was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation. The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.'"

Edited by TheMacGuffin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought they said metors too, sometimes the case or project name gives us a clue to what really is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought they were explained as typical meteors with an intense shockwave that creates a phenomena similar to an aurora?

I'll have a look for a link - Here it is - Green Fireballs and Ball Lightning. LINK

Meteorites don't typically hover around in the air where everyone can watch them change colors, fly in formation, randomly disappear and reappear. Ball lightning is also not composed of copper as the spectral anaylysis stated. Swamp gas, eh?

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ball lightning is also not composed of copper as the spectral anaylysis stated.

'spectral analysis'? can u pls point it out?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'spectral analysis'? can u pls point it out?

It's in the OP. I trust McG's research, he's pretty thorough. I meant spectrum, not spectral. lol

Edited by WoIverine
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in the OP. I trust McG's research, he's pretty thorough. I meant spectrum, not spectral. lol

ok, i saw it... it's on this page...

http://keyholepublishing.com/1949-1-31-FBI-2.JPG

but how did you get to....

Ball lightning is also not composed of copper

?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Life magazine ran an article in 1952 titled "Have We Visitors from Space?" which mentioned Lincoln LaPaz and the "green fireballs". They did indeed give off some kind of copper residue, but they were not meteorites, ball lightning or anything else along those lines:

"The popular Southwest belief that a strange meteor shower was underway has been blasted by Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, mathematician, astronomer and director of the Institute of Meteoritics at the University of New Mexico. He points out that normal fireballs do not appear green, they fall in the trajectory forced on them by gravity, are generally noisy as a freight train, and leave meteorites where they hit. The green New Mexican species does none of these things. Neither do the green fireballs appear to be electrostatic phenomena – they move too regularly and too fast

If the fireballs are the product of a U.S. weapons project, as some Southwesterners believe, it is a very secret one indeed: the Atomic Energy Commission and every other government agency connected with weapons development has denied to LIFE any responsibility for the fireballs.

Could they be self-destroying Russian reconnaissance devices? Not likely. While the U.S. believes the Russians have an intercontinental guided missile, there is no intelligence that indicates they have developed silent power plants or objects capable of moving nearly as fast as meteors (12 miles a second). Yet – for whatever it may be worth – the only reports of green fireballs prior to 1948 came from the Baltic area.

If the fireballs do not respond to gravity, they could only be explained as lighter-than-air craft or electrical phenomena – but they have characteristics which rule these out. Therefore they must be propelled. If propelled and not natural phenomena, they must be artificial. The extreme greenness of the fireballs has impressed most witnesses. When asked to indicate the approximate color on a spectrum chart, most of them have touched the band at 5,200 angstroms, close to the green of burning copper. Copper is almost never found in meteorites; the friction of the air oxidizes it shortly after the meteor enters the upper atmosphere. However, a curious fact has been recorded by aerologists. Concentrations of copper particles are now present in the air of Arizona and New Mexico, particularly in "fireball areas." These were not encountered in air samples made before 1948."

http://www.project1947.com/shg/articles/lifemag52.html#10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WHAT THEY ARE NOT – AND WHAT THEY MAY BE

What are the flying saucers, the luminous fuselages, the foo fighters and the green fireballs? The answer – if any answer at this time is possible – lies in the field of logic rather than of evidence. What the things are may be adduced partially by reviewing what they are not.

THEY ARE NOT PSYCHOLOGICAL PHENOMENA. Although the Air Force cheerily wrote off its 34 unexplained incidents with this pat theory, the explanation does not hold up. There is no evidence, beyond textbook speculation, for such a supposition, and there is the direct evidence already cited against it. To doubt the observers in the foregoing cases is to doubt the ability of every human being to know a hawk from a handsaw.

THEY ARE NOT THE PRODUCT OF U.S. RESEARCH. LIFE investigated this possibility to exhaustion. Not fully satisfied by the public denials of President Truman, Secretary Johnson and others, the investigators put the question directly to Gordon Dean, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. He said: "There's nothing in our shop that could account for these things, and there's nothing going on that I know of that could explain them." Still unconvinced, LIFE checked the whereabouts and present business of every scientist who might have anything to do with the development of superaircraft. All were accounted for in other ways. Careful feelers through the business and labor world encountered no submerged projects of the immensity necessary to build a fleet of flying disks. And there is still the conclusive fact: U.S. science has at its command no source of power that could put a flying machine through such paces as the saucers perform.

THEY ARE NOT A RUSSIAN DEVELOPMENT. It is inconceivable that the Russians would risk the loss of such a precious military weapon by flying a saucer over enemy territory. No man-made machine is foolproof; sooner or later one would crash in the U.S. and the secret would be out. Nor is there any reason to believe that Russian science, even with German help, has moved beyond not only the practical but the THEORETICAL horizons of U.S. research.

THEY ARE NOT DISTORTIONS OF THE ATMOSPHERE RESULTING FROM ATOMIC ACTIVITY. To quote the answer David Lilienthal, former AEC commissioner, once made to that suggestion: "I can't prevent anyone from saying foolish things." Nor are they aberrations of the northern lights. Magnetic disturbances cannot account for them and neither can a notion (recently fathered by Dr. Urner Liddel, the Navy physicist) that they are "vertical mirages" – reflections from a vertical (instead of a horizontal) layer of heated air.

THEY ARE NOT SKYHOOK BALLOONS. This was the original Liddel explanation, and in a few instances it may have been correct. But not many. They could scarcely be "fireflies in the cockpit," as one Air Force colonel suggested, since most of the observers were not in a cockpit when they saw their saucers. And it is hard to believe that saucers could be the reflections of automobile headlights on clouds, when they are seen in daylight under cloudless skies. These being the dead-end alleys of negative evidence, is there hope of an explanation on the open avenues of scientific theory? The answer is yes.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LaPaz had also seen his own UFO in July 1947:

On July 10, 1947 at 4:47 p.m., one of the U.S.'s top astronomers was driving from Clovis to Clines Corners, N. Mex. [subsequently revealed to be Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, investigator of Incident 10, the mysterious green fireballs.] His wife and his teen-aged daughters were also in the car. (For professional reasons he has asked LIFE to withhold identity.) It was a bright sunny day, but the whole western half of the sky was a "confused cloud sea." All at once, as the car headed toward these clouds, "all four of us almost simultaneously became aware of a curious bright object almost motionless" among the clouds. Instantly, from long habit in dealing with celestial phenomena, he began to make calculations. with what crude materials he had at hand. He held a pencil at arm's length, measured the size of the object against the windshield of the car, measured the distance between his eyes and the windshield, etc. His wife and two daughters did the same, each making independent calculations.

The object, says the scientist, "showed a sharp and firm regular outline, namely one of a smooth elliptical character much harder and sharper than the edges of the cloudlets... The hue of the luminous object was somewhat less white than the light of Jupiter in a dark sky, not aluminum or silver-colored.... The object clearly exhibited a sort of wobbling motion... This wobbling motion served to set off the object as a rigid, if not solid body." After 30 seconds in plain view, the ellipsoid moved slowly behind a cloud (273 degrees azimuth, elevation 1 degree) "and we thought we had lost it." But approximately five seconds later it reappeared (275 degrees azimuth, elevation 2 degrees). "This remarkably sudden ascent thoroughly convinced me that we were dealing with an absolutely novel airborne device." After reappearing, the object moved slowly from south to north across the clouds. "As seen projected against these dark clouds, the object gave the strongest impression of self-luminosity." About two and a half minutes after it first came into view, the thing disappeared finally behind a cloudbank.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This 1952 article was written with the cooperation of Edward Ruppelt and others in the military and intelligence fields, and personally I have always considered it to be a semi-official disclosure about UFOs, which is a rare and unusual event but does happen from time to time just the same, at least in a limited way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but they were not meteorites, ball lightning or anything else along those lines:

how did you reach to such a conclusion?

"However, a curious fact has been recorded by aerologists. Concentrations of copper particles are now present in the air of Arizona and New Mexico, particularly in "fireball areas." These were not encountered in air samples made before 1948."

check the link on the top of the page

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how did you reach to such a conclusion?

I didn't. LaPaz and others reached it long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"However, a curious fact has been recorded by aerologists. Concentrations of copper particles are now present in the air of Arizona and New Mexico, particularly in "fireball areas." These were not encountered in air samples made before 1948."

On July 24 a green fireball was observed falling close to Socorro, New Mexico. Dust samples were collected at the School of Mines there and were found to contain large particles of copper. LaPaz found this highly significant, since copper burns with the same yellow-green color characteristic of the green fireballs. He also noted that if the copper particles came from the green fireballs, then they could not be conventional meteorites, since copper was never found in dust of meteoric origin. LaPaz suggested that further air and ground samples be taken in areas where the fireballs were seen.

that therefore this... :rolleyes:

I didn't. LaPaz and others reached it long ago.

"long ago"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-hoc_analysis

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.