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TheMacGuffin

UFOs with Speeds up to 27,000 MPH

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These are facts, not just something that I am making up out of thin air.

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Gen. Bermúdez showed the analysis done by the astronomers from CEFAA’s External Committee of Advisors, which established that the object was not a meteoroid, a comet, reentry of space junk, a bird or an airplane. Furthermore, the scientists’ report stated the UFO undertook “a risky maneuver in front of the Halcones from west to east” and that it did “a flight maneuver at low altitude and high speed.” The report also established that “the object shows light and shadow effects of metallic like reflections and shows ellipsoidal shape” and that “the land observers do not detect the object in spite that it passes over their heads, thereby it is not accompanied by a sound wave.” Finally, the report’s final significant point indicates “the object moves east with 25 degrees inclination. This is the same angle spacecraft enter the atmosphere.”

To recap the salient details about the El Bosque multiple footage case, Gen. Bermúdez stated in his IUFOC lecture that, “we have studied this case in different ways. First we gave it to the astronomers, who used their own software; second, we gave the film to the air force specialists (FACH’s Aerial Photogrammetric Service). Third, we did our own internal study; we also asked the opinion of Dr. [Richard] Haines and Bruce Maccabee. Maccabee agreed with our astronomers and Richard [Haines] said that there is an unknown aerial phenomenon.”

Final Conclusions & Proposition

After a lecture full of official evidences, both audio and visual, Gen. Bermúdez proceeded to list the conclusions about the UFO phenomenon reached by CEFAA. These are:

We do not know what it is and where it came from.

It is necessary to continue studying the phenomenon.

It is necessary to share all the information.


  • The Anomalous Aerial Phenomenon characterized as UFO is real and it is present inside and outside the Controlled Air Space.

The general then added that, “I believe all possibilities of risk to air operations, no matter how incredible, must be investigated; to ignore it is irresponsible.” Bermúdez then presented what he called his “Proposition” for a continuing serious program of investigation of the phenomenon beyond Chilean borders into the international arena. The three points of his proposal were:

This agency must collect and share information and proceed to make an effective scientific investigation.

I believe that this agency should be located in the United Nations as a part of the Space Affairs.


  • It is necessary to a have a serious agency to direct the investigation in all the world.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CD8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openminds.tv%2Fufo-disclosure-chilean-style-896%2F&ei=-3DDUIXoGIqI8QTCkICwDA&usg=AFQjCNFlRCYvuA3HqcTFQSTgMGrIFhBi1g&sig2=J5CfNWvNjbSZhnCjnFY93w&bvm=bv.1354675689,d.eWU

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They will even try to tell you that Bermudez wasn't a real general, but in reality he was.

Retired Chilean Air Force General Ricardo Bermúdez is the director of CEFAA (Committee of Studies of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena), which is part of DGAC, Chile’s Civil Aviation Agency equivalent to our FAA. General Bermúdez spoke at the Congress on Saturday Feb. 25, revealing a number of highly interesting cases involving commercial and military pilots, as well as an extraordinary daytime multiple video case showing a clear metallic-looking object during an important Chilean Air Force ceremony in 2010. The message throughout his lecture was unmistakably clear: some UFOs are real and may pose a threat to air safety operations, that’s why they should be investigated officially not only in Chile but throughout the world.

General Bermúdez began his power point presentation by outlining CEFAA’s mission and methodology. The Committee’s Mission is to:

Record and analyse all relevant reports concerning UAP [unidentified Aerial Phenomena] occurring within the national territory, on the basis of a serious, objective and scientific analysis with the purpose of determining any possible risk to air operations.

CEFAA was created back in 1997 when General Bermúdez was the director of the Technical School of Aeronautics, where air traffic controllers and radar operators are trained and where the Committee was housed for a number of years. After its full reactivation in December 2009, CEFAA became a full time agency now housed in the National Aeronautics and Space Museum in Santiago. Bermúdez explained the agency has an “External Committee of Advisors” of eight top scientists from the Chilean Commission of Nuclear Energy, Aerospace Medicine at Santiago University, astronomers from the Metropolitan and Catholic Universities, a plasma physicist from Santiago University, a geographer and expert in satellite imagery from Chile State University, and two psychologists. There is also a CEFAA Internal Committee which includes experts on Operations Safety, Air Control Center, Meteorology, Air Accidents Investigations, Aerospace Engineering and Audiovisual.

“We have the support of each branch of our armed forces and police,” added Gen. Bermúdez, and these include military officers from the army, navy, air force, and two officials from the national police force. “We believe the phenomena is the same all over the world, we have relations with investigators from 14 countries,” continued Bermúdez. In some cases—for instance Uruguay’s CRIDOVNI or France’s GEIPAN—this liaison is with CEFAA’s official counterparts. In countries where no such public official agency exists, the Committee maintains relations with private scientific organizations like Dr. Richard Haines’ NARCAAP in the U.S.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CD8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openminds.tv%2Fufo-disclosure-chilean-style-896%2F&ei=-3DDUIXoGIqI8QTCkICwDA&usg=AFQjCNFlRCYvuA3HqcTFQSTgMGrIFhBi1g&sig2=J5CfNWvNjbSZhnCjnFY93w&bvm=bv.1354675689,d.eWU

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Can I just point out that the thread about the Chile UFO 'incident' is OVER HERE...

I've started going through Richard Haine's 'report' (term used very loosely) in that thread - I'll finish that before looking at other 'evidence'.

But my opinion now, as it was when I first saw all this, is that the video segments all look exactly like nearby bugs to me.

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I should learn not to respond to these constant provocations, which are designed only to irritate me and (they hope) get me kicked off of here. I understand that very well, so now I really am going to put more of them on Ignore--permanently.

And yes, I know they are getting a laugh out of this.

Yes MacGuffin, I learned that lesson myself ages ago! :tu:

by the way buddy, apologies for coming to the thread so late...[i've been busy lately.]

Anyway, I believe that the 'speed' and 'maneuverability' of these UFO's is a fascinating aspect of the recorded witness testimony in a multitude of cases. And often nullifies the possibilities of a "man-made" explanation to the puzzle.

And although I would not exclude the possibility of a natural-identification such as one of those 'atmospheric-plasma-manifestations' etc, behaving in the most peculiar manner [that we are only just beginning to acknowledge and study] ...I feel that that theory can only be promoted in a certain type of sighting!...such as the cases that consist solely of ' bright lights of either spherical or undetermined-shapes and sizes that sometimes divide into a number of parts, ...chase around erratically and then usually fade out to nothing'!...All done without any assemblance of purpose, and more importantly...'no discernible shape or rigidity' !

It is the more conventional 'solid' and where applicable 'metallic' appearance of the fast-moving UFO's being reported by a reasonably respectable witness that really interests me!

And it is in this vein that I offer this interesting 'Pilots report' of an apparently solid , metallic UFO travelling at a phenomenal pace [ between 90,000 and 180,000 mph]! in september 1996.

..interestingly enough.as a side issue , this report comes directly from the 'genuinely respectable' and 'highly regarded' researcher..."Richard F Haines", ....

http://www.narcap.or...ext_9-27-96.pdf

...."Based on my flying experience and knowing how

far commercial aircraft light can be seen on a clear night my best guess, and a conservative one

at that, is that this object traveled a distance of AT LEAST 50 Miles in 1-1/2 to 2 seconds. It

was an astonishing thing to witness. I said to the Captain “holy s__ t, did you just see that?” to

which he replied “hell yes I saw it”.

...Now that is pretty nifty!!!!

Good thread! :tu:

Cheers Buddy.

Edited by 1963
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What Got cleaned ? DId I miss the Wow signal again? :tu:

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Anyway, I believe that the 'speed' and 'maneuverability' of these UFO's is a fascinating aspect of the recorded witness testimony in a multitude of cases. And often nullifies the possibilities of a "man-made" explanation to the puzzle.

rr50c38cb2.jpg

http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pms.1993.77.3f.1059

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Gidday,

not so sure its suggesting an earthly source.....I mean there is no understanding of the energy source as it stands without invoking plasma life forms into the equation...

I dont entirely follow with regards to the spiritual v ET argument?

Hi Quillius

I do not see an ET connection, if the "life forms" are here, where does ET fit in?

By spiritual, if this phenomena can indicate or mimic intelligence, could this be what has prompted religious experiences?

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Hey Chrlzs, when you do email her can you also ask her to pop along to UM, I am sure she will enjoy herself here ...... :)

Can't say I hold her in high regard. Not super impressed with her book, or he rebuttals to Jim Oberg.

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lol....about as cynical as I am paranoid :)

She has a facebook page, maybe she might be more conducive to a paranoid mind as opposed to a cynical one?

:rofl::tu:

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Hi Quillius

I do not see an ET connection, if the "life forms" are here, where does ET fit in?

By spiritual, if this phenomena can indicate or mimic intelligence, could this be what has prompted religious experiences?

I guess that would depend where the life forms came from :)

ok, I see where you are going now with regards to the spiritual aspect. I would say that one would have to determine whether intelligence is 'indicated' 'mimiced' or 'real'....

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How fast: an UFO goes over 27,000 MPH...the earth is 20,000-some miles in diameter, thus the UFO could orbit around the world in 45-50 minutes!

What was reported remains unidentified, no matter how many studies conducted to point out what people saw on that day in 1949.

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I'm always a little bemused by the idea that early '50s radar could determine speeds like '27,000 mph'. At that rate, successive returns would be seventy miles apart on most surveillance radars, meaning they'd be far more likely to be dismissed as random noise than a single moving target. And with a realistic detection range of 150 miles, you'd get at most five skin paints before the target had passed completely through the radar's coverage. A target-tracking radar might do the job, but I suspect that as a practical matter they were design-limited to something like contemporary aircraft speeds - and at any rate, target trackers rely on surveillance radars to direct them to the target in the first place.

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Can't say I hold her in high regard. Not super impressed with her book, or he rebuttals to Jim Oberg.

I'm very impressed with her book, but as I have said, I heard about these cases long ago, before they became public.

Leslie Kean is going to get attacked regardless of what she does because she found many important witnesses who came forward with information about UFOs. Anyone who does that is going to get attacked very ruthlessly. There are no exceptions.

I recall seeing the DIA documents about the Tehran (1976) and Peru (1980) cases long before they were being discussed in public. Some people on here deliberately distorted what I said about that as well. It's unbelievable the lengths they will go to with military UFO witnsses--very ruthless and dishonest with them.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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I'm always a little bemused by the idea that early '50s radar could determine speeds like '27,000 mph'. At that rate, successive returns would be seventy miles apart on most surveillance radars, meaning they'd be far more likely to be dismissed as random noise than a single moving target. And with a realistic detection range of 150 miles, you'd get at most five skin paints before the target had passed completely through the radar's coverage. A target-tracking radar might do the job, but I suspect that as a practical matter they were design-limited to something like contemporary aircraft speeds - and at any rate, target trackers rely on surveillance radars to direct them to the target in the first place.

I think what they really meant it that Lincoln LaPaz and others determined that there were far faster than conventional aircraft, traveling at 10-15 miles per second. They were extremely fast but not behaving like meteorites.

I see that these supposedly "old and obsolete" cases really struck a nerve, too, because there has never seen any doubt that they were real, that they were unknown and flying around very sensitive installations. On a number of cases, they also caused major spikes on the radiation detectors, which really got the interest of scientists.

I have never heard of radioactive "plasmas" or "meteorites", but these were.

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How fast: an UFO goes over 27,000 MPH...the earth is 20,000-some miles in diameter, thus the UFO could orbit around the world in 45-50 minutes!

What was reported remains unidentified, no matter how many studies conducted to point out what people saw on that day in 1949.

They were basically fast enough to appear and disappear at will, literally fly circles around planes and missiles, and jump up and down and all around as they pleased. They most definitely got noticed, too, flying around up there at 100,000 or 200,000 feet and showing great interest in missile tests and high altitude balloons.

I don't know if these were all "piloted" by little alien guys or more like automated devices of some kind. It is very clear to me from the evidence that at least some of them must have had a kind on nuclear power, and I think the government investigators at the time realized it as well.

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She has a facebook page, maybe she might be more conducive to a paranoid mind as opposed to a cynical one?

If having a Facebook page makes her paranoid and unreliable, then she certainly has plenty of company.

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On a number of cases, they also caused major spikes on the radiation detectors, which really got the interest of scientists.

which cases?

I have never heard of radioactive "plasmas" or "meteorites", but these were.

Ionizing (or ionising) radiation is radiation composed of particles that individually carry enough energy to liberate an electron from an atom or molecule, ionizing it. Ionizing radiation is generated through nuclear reactions, either artificial or natural, by very high temperature (e.g. the corona of the Sun), or via production of high energy particles in particle accelerators, or due to acceleration of charged particles by the electromagnetic fields produced by natural processes, from lightning to supernova explosions. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation

plasma radiation (′plaz·mə ′rād·ē′ā·shən)

(plasma physics) Electromagnetic radiation emitted from a plasma, primarily by free electrons undergoing transitions to other free states or to bound states of atoms and ions, but also by bound electrons as they undergo transitions to other bound states. - http://www.answers.com/topic/plasma-radiation

Recently commenting on the Hessdalen data presented at the EGU General Assembly, Frank wrote, “The luminous phenomena are poorly understood. The orbs do have the characteristic of being strongly ionized, strong enough to emit radiation seen with burning air (nitrogen reacting with oxygen to form nitrous oxides). - http://www.ghosttheory.com/2012/08/17/scientific-paper-on-the-hessdalen-lights-phenomenon

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I don't know if these were all "piloted" by little alien guys or more like automated devices of some kind. It is very clear to me from the evidence that at least some of them must have had a kind on nuclear power, and I think the government investigators at the time realized it as well.

because of the "radiation"?

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At Mt. Palomar Observatory, they registered on the cosmic ray detectors over ten days--multiple times--so whatever radiation they were emitting must have been similar to that. I think that's an important clue about what the UFOs really were and perhaps what was powering them.

"Galactic cosmic rays (GCRs) are the high-energy particles that flow into our solar system from far away in the Galaxy. GCRs are mostly pieces of atoms:protons, electrons, and atomic nuclei which have had all of the surrounding electrons stripped during their high-speed (almost the speed of light) passage through the Galaxy. Cosmic rays provide one of our few direct samples of matterfrom outside the solar system. The magnetic fields of the Galaxy, the solar system, and the Earth have scrambled the flight paths of these particles so much that we can no longer point back to their sources in the Galaxy. If you made a map of the sky with cosmic ray intensities, it would be completely uniform. So we have to determine where cosmic rays come from by indirect means."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagine.gsfc.nasa.gov%2Fdocs%2Fscience%2Fknow_l1%2Fcosmic_rays.html&ei=9KjGUJHAFeXU0gG5zIGoCw&usg=AFQjCNGUu_BDctbsNE2axidv7VKjBsnvkA&sig2=n4FB4kARmQ6iMmg3WBX0jQ&bvm=bv.1354675689,d.eWU

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Some people did theorize that the UFOs were nuclear-powered Soviet aircraft of some kind, although we know no that no such things existed at the time.

The memo documents speculation on Soviet nuclear-powered disc by Col C. D. Gasser of the Nuclear Energy for the Propulsion of Aircraft (NEPA) project at Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Gasser reported rumors coming from Wright-Patterson AFB that nuclear-powered disc-shaped planes might be making incursions into US airspace and returning to the USSR over the North Pole.

gasser12449.1.gif

http://www.project1947.com/gfb/gfbchron.html

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A group of scientists at Los Alamos had a long discussion with Edward Ruppelt about the UFOs, including the "green fireballs" that seemed so bright that they could have been covered in florescent paint.

"The green fireballs, they theorized, could be some type of unmanned test vehicle that was being projected into our atmosphere from a "spaceship" hovering several hundred miles above the earth. Two years ago I would have been amazed to hear a group of reputable scientists make such a startling statement. Now, however, I took it as a matter of course. I'd heard the same type of statement many times before from equally qualified groups.

Turn the tables, they said, suppose that we are going to try to go to a far planet. There would be three phases to the trip: out through the earth's atmosphere, through space, and the re-entry into the atmosphere of the planet we're planning to land on. The first two phases would admittedly present formidable problems, but the last phase, the re-entry phase, would be the most critical. Coming in from outer space, the craft would, for all practical purposes, be similar to a meteorite except that it would be powered and not free-falling. You would have myriad problems associated with aerodynamic heating, high aerodynamic loadings, and very probably a host of other problems that no one can now conceive of. Certain of these problems could be partially solved by laboratory experimentation, but nothing can replace flight testing, and the results obtained by flight tests in our atmosphere would not be valid in another type of atmosphere.

The most logical way to overcome this difficulty would be to build our interplanetary vehicle, go to the planet that we were interested in landing on, and hover several hundred miles up. From this altitude we could send instrumented test vehicles down to the planet. If we didn't want the inhabitants of the planet, if it were inhabited, to know what we were doing we could put destruction devices in the test vehicle, or arrange the test so that the test vehicles would just plain burn up at a certain point due to aerodynamic heating.

They continued, each man injecting his ideas.

Maybe the green fireballs are test vehicles—somebody else's. The regular UFO reports might be explained by the fact that the manned vehicles were venturing down to within 100,000 or 200,000 feet of the earth, or to the altitude at which atmosphere re-entry begins to get critical."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CGMQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sacred-texts.com%2Fufo%2Frufo%2Frufo06.htm&ei=16nGUI-tDMHC0QGJ64HIDg&usg=AFQjCNHrqk5-Rnjrp0K5I91vKqSzP9scWg&sig2=z0kT1vT9MPjbbPenpdQ2Jw

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Ruppelt also said:

"Maybe I was just playing the front man to a big cover-up. I didn't like it because if somebody up above me knew that UFO's were really spacecraft, I could make a big fool out of myself if the truth came out. I checked into this thoroughly. I spent a lot of time talking to people who had worked on Project Grudge."

He thought the real UFO investigation had just gone deeper underground by 1949-50, and that's what I think as well. Only on the surface do you get these people talking all the time about balloons, meteors and so on.

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Then there were a number of prominent physicists at White Sands and Los Alamos who set up their own groups to study the UFOs and "fireballs".

http://books.google.com/books?id=_Xab1hqwco0C&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=los+alamos+%22green+fireballs%22+birdwatcher&source=bl&ots=69WbhaaLhc&sig=XSNBXrndDFTTlI7yqgKOTtg5LTY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uq7GUKTZHdTO0QHO3oCICQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA

They saw many of them, far more than ever made it into the "official" reports, at least as far as I know. At Mt. Palomar Observatory, one group of UFOs in a "V" formation registered on the cosmic ray detectors. This all came under Navy auspices, which was running its own UFO investigation, as was the Army.

They might (or might) not inform each other and various outside agencies about what they found.

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And as Commander Robert McLaughlin told Dr. James Van Allen, these UFOs could accelerate, decelerate, change direction, while astronomer Clyde Tombaugh was telling people that perhaps they came from Mars. He had seen "anomalies" on the surface of that planet as of course had many others over the years, that he linked somehow to UFO reports.

The Pentagon was not happy with McLaughlin talking so freely about these things, because the REAL UFO investigation was classified Top Secret or above, and only Washington could give permission for any information to be revealed to the press and public.

McLaughlin was literally sent to sea after talking too much, transferred from White Sands to a destroyer.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_Xab1hqwco0C&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=los+alamos+%22green+fireballs%22+birdwatcher&source=bl&ots=69WbhaaLhc&sig=XSNBXrndDFTTlI7yqgKOTtg5LTY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uq7GUKTZHdTO0QHO3oCICQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA

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I guess that would depend where the life forms came from :)

ok, I see where you are going now with regards to the spiritual aspect. I would say that one would have to determine whether intelligence is 'indicated' 'mimiced' or 'real'....

The "Life forms" to use the term, have always been seen here though, what is the connection to space?

I agree with intelligence, it certainly can be mimicked, which leads to all sorts of connotations.

Yes, with religion, the burning bush and so forth, they could be these UAP if the original story is accurate.

Edited by psyche101
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