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Still Waters

Jesus was born years earlier than thought

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Don't take my word for it do your own research...the virgin birth, the resurrection, born 25th, the sun god etc etc..all attributes you can find in other deities from other religions.

Horus born 25th Dec born of a virgin 'Isis' star in the east, adored by three kings, was betrayed, crucified and resurrection after three days,

Attis

Krishna,

Dionysus

Mithra and many many more all have attributes similar to those of Jesus.

You're just being misled by a stupid movie that falsified aspects of a bunch of different deities. Take a moment to actually read up on those deities and you'll see how far off they all are, for example Horus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

Born of sexual intercourse with no similar details to Jesus. How remarkable. Repeat for other listed deities.

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Repeat for other listed deities.

Dionysus

http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html

krishna..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna#Birth etc etc

sure some embellishment and sensationalism is made by over zealous authors but I certainly don't dismiss the fact many deities share similar attributes, not every claimed similarity is an embellishment most are real.

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Posted (edited)

Don't take my word for it do your own research...the virgin birth, the resurrection, born 25th, the sun god etc etc..all attributes you can find in other deities from other religions.

Horus born 25th Dec born of a virgin 'Isis' star in the east, adored by three kings, was betrayed, crucified and resurrection after three days,

Attis

Krishna,

Dionysus

Mithra and many many more all have attributes similar to those of Jesus.

I've done the research, that's why I concluded that you've been reading too many conspiracy sites (or perhaps you've just watched Zeitgeist, or read Acharya S [same thing, Zeitgeist's quoted source for this section is Acharya S]). Put it another way, go to any website that deals with the life of Horus or Krishna or Mithra, read up about their life, death, experiences, etc, and see if you can find the similarities yourself. The only places you'll find the glaring similarities are on sites that are intentionally trying to link Jesus to all these other deities. Don't take my word for it, find a university, find the Ancient History department, and email an historian in Egyptology and ask for the historical basis for the claims of Horus being all the things you claim. I did, and the email did not surprise me - they said basically that websites and authors such as this are untrustworthy and bear no relation to what historians know about Ancient Egypt.

* Note, Jesus was not born on December 25, the Bible does not tell us when Jesus was born, only later tradition suggested December 25. But in any case, very little of what these conspiracy sites claim is backed up by solid historical analysis. Read THIS SITE as just one example. It's an overview of Mithraism. Not a single thing here suggests anything such as what these conspiracy sites claim!

As I said, I've done the research. Have you?

Dionysus

http://www.truthbekn...m/dionysus.html

krishna..

http://en.wikipedia....shna#Birth etc etc

sure some embellishment and sensationalism is made by over zealous authors but I certainly don't dismiss the fact many deities share similar attributes, not every claimed similarity is an embellishment most are real.

Ah, "Truth Be Known". You know Acharya S. is a lauhing stock in the historical community? But as noted, don't take my word for it. Email the professionals and find out for yourself. Edited by Paranoid Android
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I agree PA, much of that catalogue of supposed similarities simply doesn't exist anywhere else except in yhose sites. So much so that there are no scholars within the academic community that give these similaities any credit whatsoever. They are dismissed, not because they aren't looking for those similarities, but because they don't exist in most cases.

On the other hand christianity is in part to blame for this problem as well, since it decided to incorporate alot of imagery and traditions into itself that once belonged to other religions. They did so in an effort to accomodate these traditions within other cultures, but as we can see that didn't work out so well in the long run.

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I've done the research, that's why I concluded that you've been reading too many conspiracy sites (or perhaps you've just watched Zeitgeist, or read Acharya S [same thing, Zeitgeist's quoted source for this section is Acharya S]). Put it another way, go to any website that deals with the life of Horus or Krishna or Mithra, read up about their life, death, experiences, etc, and see if you can find the similarities yourself. The only places you'll find the glaring similarities are on sites that are intentionally trying to link Jesus to all these other deities. Don't take my word for it, find a university, find the Ancient History department, and email an historian in Egyptology and ask for the historical basis for the claims of Horus being all the things you claim. I did, and the email did not surprise me - they said basically that websites and authors such as this are untrustworthy and bear no relation to what historians know about Ancient Egypt.

* Note, Jesus was not born on December 25, the Bible does not tell us when Jesus was born, only later tradition suggested December 25. But in any case, very little of what these conspiracy sites claim is backed up by solid historical analysis. Read THIS SITE as just one example. It's an overview of Mithraism. Not a single thing here suggests anything such as what these conspiracy sites claim!

As I said, I've done the research. Have you?

Ah, "Truth Be Known". You know Acharya S. is a lauhing stock in the historical community? But as noted, don't take my word for it. Email the professionals and find out for yourself.

Ok I kinda asked for that, I haven't done half as much research as maybe I should, to be honest I really don't care if there is or isn't, I did watch Z and then proceed to look up a few claims which led me to people like Acharya S and other sites, I assume then that the origin of religion claimed by Z is fabricated too, that its the personification of the stars which led to tales being told about why and who they were...which then led to religion as we know it...Id like to think not all of Z was BS ?

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Ok I kinda asked for that, I haven't done half as much research as maybe I should, to be honest I really don't care if there is or isn't, I did watch Z and then proceed to look up a few claims which led me to people like Acharya S and other sites, I assume then that the origin of religion claimed by Z is fabricated too, that its the personification of the stars which led to tales being told about why and who they were...which then led to religion as we know it...Id like to think not all of Z was BS ?

Yeah, most of it really is BS. As Jor-el said, Christianity didn't help matters much by borrowing traditions from pagan sources (eg, December 25, or art and architecture) but borrowing tradition is not the same as borrowing theology, which is what these copycat Messiah claims revolve around. The way I see it, if I cannot corroborate a claim made by the Christ-mythers using independent sources, preferably with ancient source material, then it probably is a lie. I'm no historian and do not claim to be, so I rely on historians and their research, emailing them if necessary.

Take Horus, for example. From memory about my research, the claim that he died and was resurrected did actually happen. However, it wasn't a crucifixion (which is often cited as how he died), and it wasn't at the end of his life. He was a child, and was bitten by a snake. He died and his mother went and pleaded with Thoth (I think that's who it was, I could be wrong so don't quote me on that) who agreed that the child shouldn't die so young, and so the kid was given back his life. Though it wasn't three days later as is claimed (I don't think any specific time was stated between his death and rebirth).

Horus also wasn't a virgin birth. Isis and Osiris had full sexual intimacy in order to conceive the child. The origin of the "virgin" concept is perhaps that Osiris did not have his real original penis. In the story, Osiris had been killed by his brother Seth and chopped up into sixteen pieces and scattered throughout the land. Isis found fifteen of them and reassembled him. But she couldn't find the penis and so fashioned one from clay. The clay penis worked just as well as the real thing because, well, she's a goddess and could do things like that. So Isis and Osiris had sex with a clay penis and nine months later little Horus was born. Not exactly a virgin birth, is it?

Moving to Krishna, it's claimed he was crucified. Wrong. According to Hindu tradition, Krishna was resting underneath a tree when a hunter came by and mistaking him for an animal shot him with an arrow. Acharya S and similar ilk state that he was "pierced" and "nailed" to a tree thus hoping to obscure a hunting accident compared to being crucified.

Mithra.... well, hopefully you read the link I gave earlier that goes into detail about the Mithraic Mysteries. That should cover any issue about Mithra that may be there. Mithra did have origins in the stars, so there may be a link worth noting, but it's a very superficial link, nothing about 12 disciples being akin to the 12 signs of the zodiac, or the dying/resurrecting saviour claimed by Zeitgeist.

Anyway, as I said, I take these claims with a grain of salt unless they are corroborated by external sources, I don't ever take these people at their word. No one should. The information is out there to research each person for themselves.

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Yeah, most of it really is BS. As Jor-el said, Christianity didn't help matters much by borrowing traditions from pagan sources (eg, December 25, or art and architecture) but borrowing tradition is not the same as borrowing theology, which is what these copycat Messiah claims revolve around. The way I see it, if I cannot corroborate a claim made by the Christ-mythers using independent sources, preferably with ancient source material, then it probably is a lie. I'm no historian and do not claim to be, so I rely on historians and their research, emailing them if necessary.

Take Horus, for example. From memory about my research, the claim that he died and was resurrected did actually happen. However, it wasn't a crucifixion (which is often cited as how he died), and it wasn't at the end of his life. He was a child, and was bitten by a snake. He died and his mother went and pleaded with Thoth (I think that's who it was, I could be wrong so don't quote me on that) who agreed that the child shouldn't die so young, and so the kid was given back his life. Though it wasn't three days later as is claimed (I don't think any specific time was stated between his death and rebirth).

Horus also wasn't a virgin birth. Isis and Osiris had full sexual intimacy in order to conceive the child. The origin of the "virgin" concept is perhaps that Osiris did not have his real original penis. In the story, Osiris had been killed by his brother Seth and chopped up into sixteen pieces and scattered throughout the land. Isis found fifteen of them and reassembled him. But she couldn't find the penis and so fashioned one from clay. The clay penis worked just as well as the real thing because, well, she's a goddess and could do things like that. So Isis and Osiris had sex with a clay penis and nine months later little Horus was born. Not exactly a virgin birth, is it?

Moving to Krishna, it's claimed he was crucified. Wrong. According to Hindu tradition, Krishna was resting underneath a tree when a hunter came by and mistaking him for an animal shot him with an arrow. Acharya S and similar ilk state that he was "pierced" and "nailed" to a tree thus hoping to obscure a hunting accident compared to being crucified.

Mithra.... well, hopefully you read the link I gave earlier that goes into detail about the Mithraic Mysteries. That should cover any issue about Mithra that may be there. Mithra did have origins in the stars, so there may be a link worth noting, but it's a very superficial link, nothing about 12 disciples being akin to the 12 signs of the zodiac, or the dying/resurrecting saviour claimed by Zeitgeist.

Anyway, as I said, I take these claims with a grain of salt unless they are corroborated by external sources, I don't ever take these people at their word. No one should. The information is out there to research each person for themselves.

I would add that most of the connection between the heavenly bodies and their worship is taken from a book that was instrumental in creating the modern subject of Comparative religion. The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer was one of the earliest attempts to create a comparison between ancient beliefs and their more modern counterparts. It is an essential guide to making many links between various spiritual thoughts on magic and religion.

That being said, the accusation between the similarities of a number of pagan beliefs and Jewish/Christian belief are ancient in nature. We find these accusations throughout history and even in some exerpts of the bible itself. What is important to note is that most of these accusations are not based on fact but on perceptions.

One such accustation was the belief that christians were cannibals because they partook of the flesh and blood of their saviour. As one can see the perception from the outside has got nothing to with the facts themselves as are known in the eucaharist (Holy Communion).

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i have a simple word for the pope you devil are vatican popes are devils and demons lol

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i have a simple word for the pope you devil are vatican popes are devils and demons lol

lol.. :td: ..How can you say that the Popes are devil and demon? If you don't have anything to say just shut up.. :gun:

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Jesus Christ born before Christ? What is this? The Nexus of the Universe? I'm an atheist now, well done, Pope Whateverus

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I just listened to a red ice podcast with Ralph Ellis. Wow, he has some amazing things to say about Jesus. The fact is, we really don't know who Jesus was, ... IF he was.

http://www.edfu-books.com/news.html

But from piecing together some information from different sources, I tie his theory to issues surrounding the Jordan codex.

lol.. :td: ..How can you say that the Popes are devil and demon? If you don't have anything to say just shut up.. :gun:

Tell that to the Argentinians who disappears so many years ago.

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Jesus Christ born before Christ? What is this? The Nexus of the Universe? I'm an atheist now, well done, Pope Whateverus

It's called tradition verses fact.

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Did Jesus even exist, he shares so many similarities with other 'characters' in other religions across the globe, its unreal...the sun god, born of a virgin, Dec 25th, the Resurrection etc etc..

At the Council of Nicea, the bishops couldn't agree on a birth date for Jesus. To settle the issue, Constantine chose December 25th, Mythra's birthday. Jesus' birthplace is also Mythra's birthplace. Same story.

From Constantine's point of view, it didn't really matter when Jesus' birth was celebrated as long as Christians quit killing each other over the issue. The issues the bishops couldn't agree on, Constantine settled by decree. He used the power of the Roman state to force compliance, banishing two bishops who wouldn't concede. It worked: the council brought the warring factions together and restored peace. But, to do it, the Kingdom of God was converted to Plato's Republic. In return for unanimity and peace, Christianity sold its soul.

Doug

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Posted (edited)

At the Council of Nicea, the bishops couldn't agree on a birth date for Jesus. To settle the issue, Constantine chose December 25th, Mythra's birthday. Jesus' birthplace is also Mythra's birthplace. Same story.

From Constantine's point of view, it didn't really matter when Jesus' birth was celebrated as long as Christians quit killing each other over the issue. The issues the bishops couldn't agree on, Constantine settled by decree. He used the power of the Roman state to force compliance, banishing two bishops who wouldn't concede. It worked: the council brought the warring factions together and restored peace. But, to do it, the Kingdom of God was converted to Plato's Republic. In return for unanimity and peace, Christianity sold its soul.

Doug

It wasn't only Mythra's birthday, it is a reference to the Winter Solstice and the Roman Feast of Saturnalia, which was one of the most important feasts of the time (presents and all). It was also known as Yuletide. As a matter of fact, this day or period of days was widely celebrated by most people in one way or another in most cultures, from the earliest of times in Mesopotamia.

The people of those times couldn't agree on a date because they didn't have the knowledge we have today, along with astronomical programs that allow us to see the night sky as it was 2000 years ago. Due to these advances we finally know when that date really was and then we are surprised as the bible confirms it for us in Revelation.

Jesus was born on 11th September 3 B.C

However there is one aspect of the Nativity that falls on the 25th December. On the 25th December, 2 B.C., 1 Year and 3 months after Jesus was born, the Magi arrived at the home of Joseph and Mary in Bethlehem. Jesus was just learning to walk and speak his 1st words.

On that night, Jupiter stopped in the heavens, South of Jerusalem, almost on top of Bethlehem, mere 6 km away. This occurred due to something we call Retrograde motion, where a planet appears to stop and then reverse its course in the night sky. It just so happens that Jupiter's retrograde motion coincided with the 25th of December, allowing to seemingly stop over Bethlehem for two days, when the Magi were in Jerusalem in Herods' Palace.

As an example of retrograde motion I will post this image of Mars and its motion in the Sky...

mars-orbit.jpg

And here is one of Jupiter and a number of other planets.... all of them stopping their motion in the sky.

retromon.gif

Here is some further information on retrograde motion... Moving worlds, Wandering stars

Another interesting tidbit of information is that Jewish Hannukkah is also celebrated on or near this day, a day of giving gifts, so it appears that at least this part of the Christmas story is true. The Wise men did indeed come on this day to give their gifts of Frankincense, Myrrh and Gold among others.

Edited by Jor-el

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Jesus was born on 11th September 3 B.C

Don't know if we'd come up with exactly the same date, but we seem to be thinking along the same lines. Thanks for your post.

Doug

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Don't know if we'd come up with exactly the same date, but we seem to be thinking along the same lines. Thanks for your post.

Doug

Well what date did you come up with, just out of curiosity and how did you get to it?

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Well what date did you come up with, just out of curiosity and how did you get to it?

I HAD a date. In 6 B.C., also based on retrograde motion of Jupiter.

In 6 B.C. there was an alignment of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn - a conjunction. In Assyrian astrology, Jupiter represents kingship - it is the king of the planets. Saturn is the shield - the protector. Mars is the sword - a warrior. Israel is the constellation Ares. If memory serves, on April 5th of 6 B.C., Jupiter entered Ares, meaning a king of the Jews had been born. When Jupiter/Saturn/Mars went into retrograde motion, they knew it was time to start their search. When they found a baby that had been born on the right date and the planets resumed their proper course, they knew they were right.

April 5 is about the right time of year - lambing time. Shepherds would keep watch at night during lambing season, but not at other times. And the "wise men" would have found the baby about the 12th of December, leaving the legend of Jesus' birth in late fall or winter.

Whoever wrote the story was familiar with Assyrian astrology. And that's a problem because the Jews of the time didn't practice astrology. So there are some loose ends that I need to clean up yet.

Doug

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I HAD a date. In 6 B.C., also based on retrograde motion of Jupiter.

In 6 B.C. there was an alignment of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn - a conjunction. In Assyrian astrology, Jupiter represents kingship - it is the king of the planets. Saturn is the shield - the protector. Mars is the sword - a warrior. Israel is the constellation Ares. If memory serves, on April 5th of 6 B.C., Jupiter entered Ares, meaning a king of the Jews had been born. When Jupiter/Saturn/Mars went into retrograde motion, they knew it was time to start their search. When they found a baby that had been born on the right date and the planets resumed their proper course, they knew they were right.

April 5 is about the right time of year - lambing time. Shepherds would keep watch at night during lambing season, but not at other times. And the "wise men" would have found the baby about the 12th of December, leaving the legend of Jesus' birth in late fall or winter.

Whoever wrote the story was familiar with Assyrian astrology. And that's a problem because the Jews of the time didn't practice astrology. So there are some loose ends that I need to clean up yet.

Doug

Well let me help you on one or two points. There was an even greater significant conjunction in 3 B.C. with the constellation of Leo. Jupiter approached the star Regulus, which in ancient tradition, is known as the King star and is widely recognized as the star that signifies royalty.

Rēgulus is Latin for 'prince' or 'little king'. The Greek variant Basiliscus is also used. It is known as Qalb al-Asad, from the Arabic قلب الأسد, meaning 'the heart of the lion'. This phrase is sometimes approximated as Kabelaced and translates into Latin as Cor Leōnis. It is known in Chinese as 轩辕十四, the Fourteenth Star of Xuanyuan, the Yellow Emperor. In Hindu astronomy, Regulus corresponds to the Nakshatra Magha ("the bountiful").

Persian astrologers around 3000 BC knew Regulus as Magh ("the great"), and as Venant, one of the four 'royal stars'.[citation needed] It was one of the fifteen Behenian stars known to medieval astrologers, associated with granite, mugwort, and the kabbalistic symbol Agrippa1531_corLeonis.png

.

In MUL.APIN, Regulus listed as LUGAL, meaning "the star that stands in the breast of the Lion:the King.".[11]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulus#Etymology_and_cultural_associations

It actually did this 3 times in total over a period of a year in what is known as a Royal conjunction (King Planet. Jupiter and King Star, Regulus) On September the 14th 3 B.C. Jupiter approached Regulus, and continued on its way, then it looped and came back again on February the 17, 2B.C. and again on May the 8th, 2B.C.

stellarium000.png

The picture is an example of the 1st of the 3 Royal conjunctions I mentioned

A month before Jupiter, also did a little get together with Venus on the 12th of August 3 B.C, both planets crossed paths in the night sky at the very same instant and superimposed each other.

starofbethlehem.jpg

And again it happened 10 months later, on June 17th 2 B.C.

stellarium001.png

A third conjunction happened as well besides the ones I mentioned, which is why I believe 11th September, 3 B.C. is the birthdate of Jesus...

Revelation 12:1-6

The Woman and the Dragon

1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

The 1st two verses have an astronomical equivalent, which occurred on that very day...

stellarium002.png

Naturally all this isn't enough to guarantee a good answer, one has to reconcile all this astronomical information with the historical information as well, from correctly identifying Herods death to the census mentioned in Luke (which wasn't a census at all) as well as one or two other bits of information like the priestly courses, John the Baptists birth, Augustus, reception of the title, Pater Patriae, the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, the start of Jesus Ministry and the date of his crucifixion.

All in all it is the best answer I have found.

As you say, the Jews were not into astrology, but they did follow a type of astrology based on different principles. The 12 tribes all had symbols that were astrological in nature, the bible is full of mentions of astronomical, astrological references as well as specific references to constellations.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazzaroth

Also, one has to account that the Magi were from Babylon and were very powerful, influential and knowledgeable of the astrology of the times, which has nothing to do with the concept known today. They were the priesthood of the ancient world, the King makers and King breakers of antiquity. Herod was not Jewish, he was from Idumea (Edom), he greatly feared the Magi and what they could do to his reign. They effectively controlled the Persian Empire, not directly but because of what and who they were.

And some of them were Jews. Daniel and many others were Magi, something people tend to forget. And the Magi knew Daniels prophecies. That is why this often neglected subject of astrology is so important to the context. The prophecies were written in the stars themselves.

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I HAD a date. In 6 B.C., also based on retrograde motion of Jupiter.

In 6 B.C. there was an alignment of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn - a conjunction. In Assyrian astrology, Jupiter represents kingship - it is the king of the planets. Saturn is the shield - the protector. Mars is the sword - a warrior. Israel is the constellation Ares. If memory serves, on April 5th of 6 B.C., Jupiter entered Ares, meaning a king of the Jews had been born. When Jupiter/Saturn/Mars went into retrograde motion, they knew it was time to start their search. When they found a baby that had been born on the right date and the planets resumed their proper course, they knew they were right.

April 5 is about the right time of year - lambing time. Shepherds would keep watch at night during lambing season, but not at other times. And the "wise men" would have found the baby about the 12th of December, leaving the legend of Jesus' birth in late fall or winter.

Whoever wrote the story was familiar with Assyrian astrology. And that's a problem because the Jews of the time didn't practice astrology. So there are some loose ends that I need to clean up yet.

Doug

I just wanted to add that if I'm not mistaken Johannes Keppler and Isaac Newton were both fascinated by the very conjunction you mentioned, they spent years trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and never could reconcile the differences. Obviously they completely missed the importance of the conjunctions in 3B.C. and 2 B.C. All because of a census that never was.

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I just wanted to add that if I'm not mistaken Johannes Keppler and Isaac Newton were both fascinated by the very conjunction you mentioned, they spent years trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and never could reconcile the differences. Obviously they completely missed the importance of the conjunctions in 3B.C. and 2 B.C. All because of a census that never was.

You've done a lot of work on this.

Like I said, I HAD a date. I'm not so confident of it anymore. And you certainly aren't helping it. But that's what research is all about. You never know what you're going to discover.

Thanks,

Doug

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Wow JESUS of Nazareth was born in 7 BCE according to the Urantia Revelation & this is the seventh page of this thread!.

8. The Birth of Jesus

(1351.5) 122:8.1 All that night Mary was restless so that neither of them slept much. By the break of day the

pangs of childbirth were well in evidence, and at noon, August 21, 7 B.C., with the help and kind

ministrations of women fellow travelers, Mary was delivered of a male child. Jesus of Nazareth was born

into the world, was wrapped in the clothes which Mary had brought along for such a possible contingency,

and laid in a near-by manger.

(1351.6) 122:8.2 In just the same manner as all babies before that day and since have come into the world,

the promised child was born; and on the eighth day, according to the Jewish practice, he was circumcised

and formally named Joshua (Jesus).

(1351.7) 122:8.3 The next day after the birth of Jesus, Joseph made his enrollment. Meeting a man they had

talked with two nights previously at Jericho, Joseph was taken by him to a well-to-do friend who had a

room at the inn, and who said he would gladly exchange quarters with the Nazareth couple. That afternoon

they moved up to the inn, where they lived for almost three weeks until they found lodgings in the home of

a distant relative of Joseph.

(1351.8) 122:8.4 The second day after the birth of Jesus, Mary sent word to Elizabeth that her child had come

and received word in return inviting Joseph up to Jerusalem to talk over all their affairs with Zacharias. The

following week Joseph went to Jerusalem to confer with Zacharias. Both Zacharias and Elizabeth had

become possessed with the sincere conviction that Jesus was indeed to become the Jewish deliverer, the

Messiah, and that their son John was to be his chief of aides, his right-hand man of destiny. And since

Mary held these same ideas, it was not difficult to prevail upon Joseph to remain in Bethlehem, the City of

David, so that Jesus might grow up to become the successor of David on the throne of all Israel.

Accordingly, they remained in Bethlehem more than a year, Joseph meantime working some at his

carpenter’s trade.

(1352.1) 122:8.5 At the noontide birth of Jesus the seraphim of Urantia, assembled under their directors, did

sing anthems of glory over the Bethlehem manger, but these utterances of praise were not heard by human

ears. No shepherds nor any other mortal creatures came to pay homage to the babe of Bethlehem until the

day of the arrival of certain priests from Ur, who were sent down from Jerusalem by Zacharias.

(1352.2) 122:8.6 These priests from Mesopotamia had been told sometime before by a strange religious

teacher of their country that he had had a dream in which he was informed that “the light of life” was

about to appear on earth as a babe and among the Jews. And thither went these three teachers looking for

this “light of life.” After many weeks of futile search in Jerusalem, they were about to return to Ur when

Zacharias met them and disclosed his belief that Jesus was the object of their quest and sent them on to

Bethlehem, where they found the babe and left their gifts with Mary, his earth mother. The babe was

almost three weeks old at the time of their visit.

(1352.3) 122:8.7 These wise men saw no star to guide them to Bethlehem. The beautiful legend of the star of

Bethlehem originated in this way: Jesus was born August 21 at noon, 7 B.C. On May 29, 7 B.C., there

occurred an extraordinary conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces. And it is a

remarkable astronomic fact that similar conjunctions occurred on September 29 and December 5 of the

same year. Upon the basis of these extraordinary but wholly natural events the well-meaning zealots of the

succeeding generation constructed the appealing legend of the star of Bethlehem and the adoring Magi led

thereby to the manger, where they beheld and worshiped the newborn babe. Oriental and near-Oriental

minds delight in fairy stories, and they are continually spinning such beautiful myths about the lives of their

religious leaders and political heroes. In the absence of printing, when most human knowledge was passed

by word of mouth from one generation to another, it was very easy for myths to become traditions and for

traditions eventually to become accepted as facts.

9. The Presentation in the Temple

(...)

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Wow JESUS of Nazareth was born in 7 BCE according to the Urantia Revelation & this is the seventh page of this thread!.

Why should anybody give credence to a book written in the 1920's?

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Why should anybody give credence to a book written in the 1920's?

Because of its Advanced Science for its time, as I said ealier above. ...

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Posted (edited)

Because of its Advanced Science for its time, as I said earlier above. ...

The supposed advanced science for its time was wrong!

Not only did it get the solar systems planetary formation it also got the age of the universe wrong. There are quite a number of scientific errors in the book, but all were accepted science in the 1920's.

Be that as it may, the date it proposes is incorrect, since it directly contradicts not only the bible but known dates of the chronology of Jesus life. It is well known that Jesus was killed when he was 33 years old (on his way to his 34th year). If he was born in August 21, 7 B.C., that would put his death in the year 28 A.D. at Passover, which was Nisan 14, 3788 or March 27, 28 A.D. (Gregorian), that means he started his ministry at least 3 years earlier in 25 A.D., which would have been impossible since John the Baptist started his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar, which was in 27/28 A.D. (depending on the calendar one is using it can be 27 A.D. or 28 A.D.). This means that both John and Jesus were killed before both even started their respective ministries.

In other words the date contradicts scripture and history.

Edited by Jor-el

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