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Bling

What happens when you die?

123 posts in this topic

Seeker, you come across as someone who has the notion that they are right about what they write. There is no point in anyone having a conversation with people of that type because it ultimately remains futile. Go ahead an believe in Multi-dimensional planes and dreams being more than just dreams, it's your belief and I don't care what you believe, I just wanted a discussion about NDE's but in a efw of your posts on this forum I've seen the phrase 'This is incorrect' when it's all oopen to interpretation and it's all presonal belief and opinion. Not that me saying this will make any difference, it never does so I won't hold out hope.

Call my thinking Fallacious and say I decent 'Critcical thinking skills and Articulate Understanding' all you want, I don't care what people think of me, least not people who come across as though they think they know the whole story.

As for dreams, whether you think they have a deeper meanin or not, that's for you to believe. Maybe I'm just an Astral projector denying my gift :innocent: .

P.S, what does age have to do with it? I'm 19 in a few days, and it's not age that matters so why even mention it?

Sorry you sounded young. Calling people idiots and such is usually a sign of immaturity... I was right. some people are wrong when they make fallacious statements about the origins of religions and other things. These things are not inturpretations they are historical realities.

Now yes the other stuff is quite debatable and open for inturpretation. My style of writing laks passive voice. When I make an argument I make it strong. This does put sensitive people off, but it's a skill I learned in college...it's a habit. No one has the answers to the great mystery sean. All we can do is deduce and engage in philosophy.

Age has a lot to do with it. At 19 you have not had the time to explore these subjects to their full potential or understand the basic use of REAL. Logic. My encouragement would be to expand your horizons rather than spout fallacy all over the place. A university is a good place to start if you are not already there.

By the way I ment descent critical thinking skills, I was complimenting you my friend ;)

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What has NDE's got to with this topic??!! Why can't we stay on topic??!!

Rant over :P

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Sorry you sounded young. Calling people idiots and such is usually a sign of immaturity... I was right. some people are wrong when they make fallacious statements about the origins of religions and other things. These things are not inturpretations they are historical realities.

Now yes the other stuff is quite debatable and open for inturpretation. My style of writing laks passive voice. When I make an argument I make it strong. This does put sensitive people off, but it's a skill I learned in college...it's a habit. No one has the answers to the great mystery sean. All we can do is deduce and engage in philosophy.

Age has a lot to do with it. At 19 you have not had the time to explore these subjects to their full potential or understand the basic use of REAL. Logic. My encouragement would be to expand your horizons rather than spout fallacy all over the place. A university is a good place to start if you are not already there.

By the way I ment descent critical thinking skills, I was complimenting you my friend ;)

I won't let this turn into a debate of who is right and who is wrong, doesn't matter to me that much, just general interest, I can't and don't want to change your ways anyhow, you think what you want to.

By the way, It's spelt Decent, not Descent. Descent means "An action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.", I thought you were being condescending and snide about my thinking but whatever.

I don;t want to prove you wrong, I just want to know what's right but obviously you nor anyone here can know that at the moment, myself included.

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I won't let this turn into a debate of who is right and who is wrong, doesn't matter to me that much, just general interest, I can't and don't want to change your ways anyhow, you think what you want to.

By the way, It's spelt Decent, not Descent. Descent means "An action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.", I thought you were being condescending and snide about my thinking but whatever.

I don;t want to prove you wrong, I just want to know what's right but obviously you nor anyone here can know that at the moment, myself included.

Well you have discovered my horrible lak of reguard for spelling.

But it seems that you occupy an agnostic position. For most it's the only reasonable and honest position.

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What has NDE's got to with this topic??!! Why can't we stay on topic??!!

Rant over :P

"What happens when you die?"

Id say that is an NDE thread in the makeing.

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Apart from decomposing and giving back to mother nature your being,spirit etc will move on to its next life. :tu:

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Sounds good.. I would love to hear the results of these tests...Whenever that will be..

Larry Hagman, who recently died on Nov 23rd .. Believed he too had an NDE a while back

Click and listen to his NDE experience...It is rather interesting

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Well you have discovered my horrible lak of reguard for spelling.

But it seems that you occupy an agnostic position. For most it's the only reasonable and honest position.

Yes I'm agnostic on a universal scale for sure. However, the religions of Earth I just can't seem to feel convinced by because I cannot see how we, a planet among trillions+ can have the answers to life's little mysteries when even here on our little speck of a planet, we're bickering over which of the thousands of gods and religions are right that exist...on our planet!

Slightly off topic this is but I thought of this a while back and it seems solid to me - If we are one planet with a star,The Sun, which has 8 planets and a planetoid rotating around it making 9 if you will; and there is an estimated 100 Sextillion (100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 :unsure2:) stars in the universe with the possibility (I'd say fact for most stars) of other planets revolving around them (Excluding 'Lone Planets that have no stars - They exist), let's say 8 for the sake of it; then that would equal roughly 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 planets! Mind = Blown. One of those planets has to have life, I just can't see how there could not be. Now we here have developed religions right? Surely somewhere out there in at least one of those planets, though I suspect billions of them - there is a species that has religion. What would their religions be? The keen Believer in our Earthly religions would say "Allah would have visited them" Or "Yahweh would have visited them" Or "Vishnu would have visited them". But in reality, if we're here, arguing over our own religions, what are the chances of there being Christianity, Or Judaism, or Hinduism on a planet millions of light years away? I say almost nil (Almost only because I can't know for sure).

This brings up the question then, How many religions are there in this universe? Better yet - what if the aliens (for lack of better word) have got the right religion, what if they have met the true creator. Neil De Grasse Tyson mentioned us being only 1-2% genetically different to Apes but yet for such a small difference, look how much we've accomplished that the apes have not. The smartest Ape who ever lived could do a bit of sign language, our toddlers can do that. We humans, smart as we like to think we are, have sent men to the Moon, created computers and A.I systems and have cured diseases to name a few of our accomplishments. So think about this - somewhere out there, in the universes' vastness, there is almost certainly a life form or race that is 1-2 %genetically different to us. So think for a moment as you begin to realise that to them, we would be like Apes. Our 'Great' achievements such as satellites and medical advancement would be the equivalent to them of a monkey showing us sign language, they're toddlers could do rocket science and the hardest Maths in pre-school becaue they're so staggeringly superior. So imagine then, this race; superior and God like, what if they have religions? How would that fare against our own? If these celestial beings who surpass us in every way both physically and mentally, if they have a God of their own, what would it be like? Most likey mind-boggling and incomprehensible to out feeble minds.

That's one of the big reasons I'm Agnostic, because we simply don't know enough to really KNOW.

pbdwords.jpg

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Now you are thinking. Let's say one of those advanced civilizations manages to evolve for a billion years. At what point does a civilization essentially a large colony look and behave like a single organism.. With a single mind. After all that's all advanced life forms are in the first place right?

What is the ultimate living imperative. Preservation and reproduction.

A highly evolved sentience billions and billions of years old potentially trillions. How would its components or it's seed know that it was apart of something bigger? How could a being like that get its embryo or brain cells to understand it knowing that they to have a measure of sentience. In your mind in that vast forge of time and space is it possible for being like this to exist? If so, what is the likelyhood that is indeed our god and creator?

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Now you are thinking. Let's say one of those advanced civilizations manages to evolve for a billion years. At what point does a civilization essentially a large colony look and behave like a single organism.. With a single mind. After all that's all advanced life forms are in the first place right?

What is the ultimate living imperative. Preservation and reproduction.

A highly evolved sentience billions and billions of years old potentially trillions. How would its components or it's seed know that it was apart of something bigger? How could a being like that get its embryo or brain cells to understand it knowing that they to have a measure of sentience. In your mind in that vast forge of time and space is it possible for being like this to exist? If so, what is the likelyhood that is indeed our god and creator?

As a person who comes from a more physical stand-point rather than spiritual, I'd say that there is a good chance of our origin, whether it be a being or a 'thing', being somewhere in the universe and by our I mean the life that exist's within the universe, humans and all other species.

If the Big Bang theory is true, then surely the Universe had to be kick started by something and whether that 'instigator' of life exists within or outside of the universe is another mystery entirely, either scenario is possible perhaps. Yes, many people use this as fuel for their own religious beliefs such as Frank Turek, William Lane Craig and Hamza Tzoritz to name a few and while it's a sound argument that everything that exists has a beginning, that doesn't automatically point to a god, least not our Earthly gods whose various religious texts don't support the Big Bang (The Qur'an has some cosmological passages in it such as"We have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it" (Surah 5.47) but there is dispute by many Muslim's that the word 'Expanding' was only brought into the verse with the late 20th Century translations.) - Who knows though?

See, I hate the argument of simply using "Big Bang" as the be all end all of shuning creation without going any further. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that any Earthly gods here had a hand in the creation of this beautiful Universe but there has to be something that put it into motion and that is what is exciting to me - our advancements in science and space exploration are getting us closer to the answers and maybe someday, when we've colonised planets across the galaxy, we'll have our answer. That's what makes life exciting in a way, we may be a small and insignificant dot in a void, seemingly alone; but the thought that we'll pull ourselves out of it and unto greater things is...enlightening. We've only scraped the surface of our cosmos and I'm sure there are many things out there that, when discovered, will blow our minds, here's to hoping we get to live long enough to see some of them.

"Our Future depends on how well we understand this cosmos, in which we float like a mote of dust" - Carl Sagan.

Edited by Sean93

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"What happens when you die?"

Id say that is an NDE thread in the makeing.

NDE's is not the original topic of this thread, but I've seen how some people operate on this forum and they love to make the thread their own. Knock yourself out folks, talk about what you like - my life's too short to care anymore!

Edited by Bling

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...without emotion there is no memory.

That's a very intriguing idea, and I can't find a memory where I can say you're wrong. I am tired, though. But very interesting.

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Seeker, you come across as someone who has the notion that they are right about what they write. There is no point in anyone having a conversation with people of that type because it ultimately remains futile.

And as a 3rd party seeing what you write to each other, I see you are the same way. You call him an idiot for believing what he does. Implying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid, therefore you are inherently right, when neither side can say for sure. You say it is purely physical the things you experience; he says there is more beyond the physical. Neither knows; you should keep that in mind. And no one needs to call others idiots here.

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What has NDE's got to with this topic??!!

Really? What does a near death experience have to do with answering what happens when we die? It is what happens when we die (or at least extremely close to about to die). The light, love, peace, joy, the meeting with passed relatives and friends, the less common visit to a fearful dark place of sorrow, it all is intriguing and very relevant to your question.

I can't believe you think it is off topic.

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Really? What does a near death experience have to do with answering what happens when we die? It is what happens when we die (or at least extremely close to about to die). The light, love, peace, joy, the meeting with passed relatives and friends, the less common visit to a fearful dark place of sorrow, it all is intriguing and very relevant to your question.

I can't believe you think it is off topic.

I wanted to know what non religious people thought happened to them when they die, not when they nearly die!! NDE's are a different subject in my opinion, but like I said....I can't say I'll lose sleep over this!

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As a person who comes from a more physical stand-point rather than spiritual, I'd say that there is a good chance of our origin, whether it be a being or a 'thing', being somewhere in the universe and by our I mean the life that exist's within the universe, humans and all other species.

If the Big Bang theory is true, then surely the Universe had to be kick started by something and whether that 'instigator' of life exists within or outside of the universe is another mystery entirely, either scenario is possible perhaps. Yes, many people use this as fuel for their own religious beliefs such as Frank Turek, William Lane Craig and Hamza Tzoritz to name a few and while it's a sound argument that everything that exists has a beginning, that doesn't automatically point to a god, least not our Earthly gods whose various religious texts don't support the Big Bang (The Qur'an has some cosmological passages in it such as"We have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it" (Surah 5.47) but there is dispute by many Muslim's that the word 'Expanding' was only brought into the verse with the late 20th Century translations.) - Who knows though?

See, I hate the argument of simply using "Big Bang" as the be all end all of shuning creation without going any further. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that any Earthly gods here had a hand in the creation of this beautiful Universe but there has to be something that put it into motion and that is what is exciting to me - our advancements in science and space exploration are getting us closer to the answers and maybe someday, when we've colonised planets across the galaxy, we'll have our answer. That's what makes life exciting in a way, we may be a small and insignificant dot in a void, seemingly alone; but the thought that we'll pull ourselves out of it and unto greater things is...enlightening. We've only scraped the surface of our cosmos and I'm sure there are many things out there that, when discovered, will blow our minds, here's to hoping we get to live long enough to see some of them.

"Our Future depends on how well we understand this cosmos, in which we float like a mote of dust" - Carl Sagan.

Indeed.... If materialists inturpretation of death is correct, I would be so very sad that I did not get to see the way it all turned out.

Personally I don't see any reason to think the BB only happened once. God simply may be an evolved entity that mastered nature. If existence is infinite, and in some way it must be, god evolved a very very long time ago possibly approaching the infinite and encompassing the infinite. There is plenty of room for spiritual realms and a myriad of dimensions and entities within the mind and body of such a thing. Infact, I find it highly unlikely by sheer probability that there is not a spiritual construct of some sort. After all, the science that we know, would not be able to predict life either. It would come out of left field.

Edited by Seeker79

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And as a 3rd party seeing what you write to each other, I see you are the same way. You call him an idiot for believing what he does. Implying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid, therefore you are inherently right, when neither side can say for sure. You say it is purely physical the things you experience; he says there is more beyond the physical. Neither knows; you should keep that in mind. And no one needs to call others idiots here.

Fair enough. I however, don't think i'm right without fault, I could be wrong and judging by the size of this universe I'd say we all are in most respects.

I never called Seeker an idiot directly but yes, I did say that people who think that dreams or sleep paralysis are some kind of spiritual thing are idiots, mainly because I've always had sleep probelms, since a child I've had lucid dreams, false awakenings and all that nice stuff but I just cannot see how anything of that construct is related to some metaphysical realm or spiritual being...it's a dream, Sleep paralysis occurs when in REM sleep to stop us lashing out in dreams, Lucidy of dreams is brought on by sleep paralysis and so on so forth, go read about it, it's really fascinating..but again, I could be wrong about it, we'll see. (I'll try and be nice from now on :passifier: )

If you'd read my posts again, and I openly ackowledge that Seeker could be right and that NDE's could in fact be real - They could be! there's good ground for them, sound arguments and all that.

I'll say it now.

-There may be a god/goddess.

-There might be a life after death.

-NDE's might be true.

'There is almost certainly something out there....something that we cannot comprehend, perhaps?

-I am certainly NOT right about everything.

"I don;t want to prove you wrong, I just want to know what's right but obviously you nor anyone here can know that at the moment, myself included." That was me who worte that on page 7 - doesn't seem to come from soneone who thinks they are right about it all does it?

Edited by Sean93

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To the OP of this topic. I think NDE's are a viable thing to discuss on the topic of "What Happens When We Die". Of course, there are other things to discuss as well but considering this topic is for the opinions of agnostics and non-believers, there's only so far we can go with it E.G. "Nothing" or "there might be". I enjoyed the discussion I had with others about NDE's, and as far as I can tell, it's certainly more inetrsting that my own Agnostic view of Nothingness but like everything in this thread, it's only my opinion. I'd like to think that we'd all end up okay in the end, but that's just me wishfully thinking; I have my reasons BUT that doesn't make it final or any more authoritive than an Atheist, Diest or Full on Religious person's outlook because in the end, this discussion will always come down the same conclusion - 'Opinion'.

I would have had the title be 'What do you think happens when you die?, makes it more subjective because the question seems to imply that someone knows the answer BUT, that's your title, you chose it so by all means keep it. :tsu:

The most convincing kind of god that I can think of is the god that Bill Hicks would mention, that "we are all one and everything is one; one consciousness" and George Carlin's idea of a 'god' for lack of better word. 'The Big Electron'.

Nice video here:

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Sean you crack me up! Get on with it and enjoy. I can't be a*sed with ignorance :)

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Sean you crack me up! Get on with it and enjoy. I can't be a*sed with ignorance :)

Why am I ignorant? :w00t: What did I say?

Edited by Sean93

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Why am I ignorant? :w00t: What did I say?

I didn't say you we're ignorant - bye! ;)

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I didn't say you we're ignorant - bye! ;)

Ah, I see.

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