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'Reasonable force' or 'murder'?

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238705/Familys-outrage-star-students-murdered-mans-basement-claims-robbed-home-Thanksgiving.html

Friends and relatives say the teens should not have been shot dead. This is the eighth time his home has been robbed and the dead teens were more than likely responsible for at least some of those crimes.

I think if you trespass you have to accept that anything could happen to you ..... that's a risk you choose to take. From the article, I think he was perfectly justified in what he did. What do you think?

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anyone breaks into my place i would do the same. how did he know they weren't gonna kill him? u do the crime u take ur punishment. if they didn't break in they would still be alive.

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http://www.dailymail...anksgiving.html

Friends and relatives say the teens should not have been shot dead. This is the eighth time his home has been robbed and the dead teens were more than likely responsible for at least some of those crimes.

I think if you trespass you have to accept that anything could happen to you ..... that's a risk you choose to take. From the article, I think he was perfectly justified in what he did. What do you think?

I tend to agree with you. If you are in your own home/property, you should be able to defend yourself from any percieved risk. Having said that, if this case was in my country, the shooter would be facing 10 years in jail because you can only defend yourself with the same force that the criminal is using.

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No he was not justified in killing them. He was justified in shooting them intially. But he outright murdered them after the first shot. He went so far as to perform a coup de grace on the girl. It is murder if they are incapacitated and you them shoot them again killing them. He deserves the charges he is facing.

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anyone breaks into my place i would do the same. how did he know they weren't gonna kill him? u do the crime u take ur punishment. if they didn't break in they would still be alive.

So you going to put a bullet in a young womans head if she is lying on the ground after you have already shot her several times and is no longer a threat? I am not defending what they did and I am not saying he did not have the right to shoot them intially. But something changes when you you go out of your way to make sure someone is dead, which is what this guy did.

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He was certainly entitled to defend his home, but it does seem he over reacted a bit. That he stashed the bodies suggests he knew that.

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I couldn't read the article because my work computer blocked it for some danged fool reason...

I am a firm supporter of the "Make My Day" laws allowing a person to use deadly force if necessary to defend their lives and the lives of their families... However, if he did indeed shoot them after they were down and clearly not a threat, he is guilty (IMO) of man-slaughter at least...

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I'm a firm believer in warning shots and scaring the living sh* out of someone with everything you got.

It sounds like he had opportunity for a warning shot. Yet when the kid laughed at his his jammed gun and didn't run what did he think? This guy is wacked? and shot him.

However, shooting a second time in the face because the kid laughed at you, is not even close to protecting your home. But it's like when cops beat up suspects after a chase. It's wrong but it happens, there is a psychological reason for it, and no it is not "because they are racist or bullies or love to beat up people".

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Butchery and moronic vigilantism...this was no longer anything close to defense.

He was living out some cowboy and indian fantasy....he deserves jail time.

They were down, he could have fled but he seen them as nothing more than targets. I have no sympathy for him.

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I'm a firm believer in warning shots and scaring the living sh* out of someone with everything you got.

It sounds like he had opportunity for a warning shot. Yet when the kid laughed at his his jammed gun and didn't run what did he think? This guy is wacked? and shot him.

The girl is the one that laughed at him.

The gun jammed after he had already shot the girl once and she had fallen down the stairs and thats when she laughed at him. And then this happened from the article

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

That sir is murder

Edited by Grey14
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Butchery and moronic vigilantism...this was no longer anything close to defense.

He was living out some cowboy and indian fantasy....he deserves jail time.

They were down, he could have fled but he seen them as nothing more than targets. I have no sympathy for him.

The cliche cowboy story where you are at home alone when criminals break in.... i must have missed that one,

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I'm all for defense of the home, including the use of deadly force, but when it's clear you've got the upper hand, don't kill someone. Then again, I don't have much sympathy for people who die in the act of a crime, especially ones that can end up getting you killed.

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The girl is the one that laughed at him.

The gun jammed after he had already shot the girl once and she had fallen down the stairs and thats when she laughed at him. And then this happened from the article

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

That sir is murder

He shot both and they each tumbled down the stairs.

Yes, it was the girl who laughed at him after he had shot her, my mistake. But I said what he did was wrong, yet, and I don't know his specific psychological make-up, excessive force is a result sometimes of high test situations, there is a psychological reasoning for it. I still said it was wrong, and not in defense of his home anymore.

I'd have used warning shots right passed their heads! Killing, no matter why, is a tough one, and one I don't understand myself. If I had a lot of break-ins and expected more, I'd do all else I could so as to hopefully, never have to shoot someone.

I've been in a similar situation, it is terrifying. And I had no exit either. Did I wish I had a gun, yup! But not to shoot them, hopefully.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2DMiKg38D

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Edited by QuiteContrary
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The girl is the one that laughed at him.

The gun jammed after he had already shot the girl once and she had fallen down the stairs and thats when she laughed at him. And then this happened from the article

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

That sir is murder

I going to agree. I'm pro-gun and believe firmly in home and personal defense, but this guy is an idiot that went too far. You shoot, retreat, and call 911. Repeat as needed. What you do not do is Hunt down the intruders. You simply defend where you are.

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It's so easy to just pull the trigger, isn't it? See the person you are about to kill as nothing more than an animal..a "target".

What sort of mindset does it take to cripple an attacker then pump more shots into them then deliver the "clean shot" as if blowing the head off a dog?

Sometimes I wonder if our society is even mature enough to handle the responsibility of using guns?

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He was defending his home...and then he became a murderer.

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what a fool...nothing wrong with defending yourself. but he went too, too far...

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The girl is the one that laughed at him.

The gun jammed after he had already shot the girl once and she had fallen down the stairs and thats when she laughed at him. And then this happened from the article

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

That sir is murder

I agree. It also sounds strange that anyone would be laughing at him AFTER he had shot them. Drugs, maybe? He went beyond self defense and he murdered them.
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moida

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The girl is the one that laughed at him.

The gun jammed after he had already shot the girl once and she had fallen down the stairs and thats when she laughed at him. And then this happened from the article

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.

That sir is murder

That's crazy. Doesn't seem like something a first time shooter would do. This guy has either killed before or the 8 break-ins turned him nuts waiting for the moment. This is what happens when you break into Dexters house.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-

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He killed a TEENAGE GIRL, THAT WILL BE TOUGH ON HIM IN COURT I BET YOU ANYTHING HE WILL GET MANSLAUGHTER OR WORSE FELONY AND HE WILL HAVE A HARD LIFE AHEAD OF HIM. What kind of man kills a girl, was she not visible as a girl was she wearing a mask? wtf. How can a woman that is not armed harm you?

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What kind of man kills a girl, was she not visible as a girl was she wearing a mask? wtf. How can a woman that is not armed harm you?

I don’t get this mentality. A woman is just as capable of harming someone as a man.

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What makes me so mad is the response of the friends, relatives and even a teacher. These kids were druggies and robbers, for goodness' sake! One describes the girl as a 'popular role model' .... wtf?!! " They were just really great people ..... they could make anyone laugh". Not much of a laugh for Smith, an old(-ish) man living on his own experiencing many burglaries. I'm not surprised he 'cracked'.

Fair play to him, he didn't try to make up a story, he told police exactly what happened. I feel sorry for him. He probably saw the burglaries stretching on into the future, no end to them, and him not getting any younger. Druggy kids just helping themselves to stuff that he'd spent his hard-earned cash on to enjoy in his retirement.

These two were high as kites: she hears her cousin being shot at but she follows him into the basement!! Unless, of course, she knew he(her cousin), was armed and thought he had shot Smith? (Although no mention in the article of either of them being armed).

At the very least, I hope this makes other kids stop and think before doing something similar. As I said in my OP: if you trespass onto someone else's property you mustn't complain about anything that happens to you.

Edited by ouija ouija

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He killed a TEENAGE GIRL, THAT WILL BE TOUGH ON HIM IN COURT I BET YOU ANYTHING HE WILL GET MANSLAUGHTER OR WORSE FELONY AND HE WILL HAVE A HARD LIFE AHEAD OF HIM. What kind of man kills a girl, was she not visible as a girl was she wearing a mask? wtf. How can a woman that is not armed harm you?

Who cares if it was a girl or not? The kids got what they deserved from the first bullet but the fact that he walked up to the girl while she was down, put a gun under her chin and blew her brains out is just not what good citizens do. It's great in the movies but we have laws for a reason. If he killed them on the first shot that's a different story but he walked into premeditation grounds with the "kill shot". Also, the fact that they were teenagers is even more unsettling. I know they were worthless punks but to look a young person in the eyes, see the youth in their face and kill them tells me this guy didn't give a ****. Maybe he had it thought out already. Maybe his idea was screw it, I'll go to jail if it means I'm sending a loud and clear message. RESPECT O.P.P.

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you really don't want to leave burglars alive, they will sue you and win, it happened before. not to mention big chance he will come back later, not to rob, but to kill you this time. it also happened before.

use.44 mag, and kill them with first shot, .22 is for target practice, not home defence.

he did the right thing the wrong way.

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