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'Reasonable force' or 'murder'?

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An odd thing I read in one of the reports was that a member of staff from the college/school they attended, made the identification of the bodies ...... why didn't a family member do that? Actually, was there any mention of parents in any of the articles? I don't think there was.

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Where did I ever say this guy was right shooting her in the face? It was a sick move. All I said is there is a psychological reason for excessive force, but I didn't know if it was true in his case. But I said it was still wrong, more than once.

If warning shots are stupid where did the term come from? And why do people live to tell about using them?

This guy even had several warning break-ins.

Every situation is different. There are thousands of scenarios. Since when is every perp even armed with a gun?

Would it have worked here? Were the teens armed with guns?

Heck the ones breaking into where I was left because I just told them I had a gun. No shots, and they never saw the gun I actually did not have.

And under your logic a gun shot to the perp is the only ever effective means of defense. And that is false.

What about owning mace? Or knowing self-defense moves? Or when the perp hears the sirens of the cops you called?

If these have been used effectively in situations, then so could a warning shot be used.

And if warning shots are pointless Or "stupid" as you call them, and will result in harm to you, then so are all nonlethal means of defense: alarm system, calling 911, a dog, self defense knowledge, mace, locking yourself in a bathroom, calling for help, exiting the building, etc,

My point is if you are not a trained professional, who has been schooled to remain as calm as is possible in stressful situations, and you pull a gun, pointing it and not firing can get you shot. firing a warning shot in hopes of intimidating someone can get you shot. My uncle, a police officer stresses if you ever feel the need to pull your gun to defend youself shoot to kill. do not point, do not threaten, shoot to kill. If you do not intend to shoot someone you should never ever pull a gun out. The part about the warning shot was the only part I was crticizing you about, I totaly agree with you that he went to far with the kill shot as you can see in my original post. But it really can't be stressed enough, taking a warning shot is just a very bad idea. The police don't take warning shots that is hollywood BS.

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An odd thing I read in one of the reports was that a member of staff from the college/school they attended, made the identification of the bodies ...... why didn't a family member do that? Actually, was there any mention of parents in any of the articles? I don't think there was.

Probably for the same reasons they never taught their kids Right from Wrong. Too busy, too stoned, too absent, too in prison....

I'd blame the parents too, if I did not know from experience that kids can do stupid stuff. It does seem that parents are less responsible these days, but I think that has been said every generation. I think in more Urban areas it has become easy to toss your kids into the education system and expect the schools to teach wrong from right. But schools/teachers don't really do that... Other kids at school do. And what they teach each other is Right and Wrong is not always what Everyone Else thinks is Right or Wrong.

Edited by DieChecker

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My point is if you are not a trained professional, who has been schooled to remain as calm as is possible in stressful situations, and you pull a gun, pointing it and not firing can get you shot. firing a warning shot in hopes of intimidating someone can get you shot. My uncle, a police officer stresses if you ever feel the need to pull your gun to defend youself shoot to kill. do not point, do not threaten, shoot to kill. If you do not intend to shoot someone you should never ever pull a gun out. The part about the warning shot was the only part I was crticizing you about, I totaly agree with you that he went to far with the kill shot as you can see in my original post. But it really can't be stressed enough, taking a warning shot is just a very bad idea. The police don't take warning shots that is hollywood BS.

Not to mention, if you fire a warning shot inside, you really mess up your ceiling or the finish on your floors.

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When I was 12, there was a pretty girl who lived down the street. One night my brother and I were outside her first floor window talking with her. Her dad heard a couple people outside and stepped out on the porch and fired a warning shot. We ran like hell and never did that again. Warning shots are not always stupid. It depends on the situation.

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What about owning mace? Or knowing self-defense moves? Or when the perp hears the sirens of the cops you called?

lol, you don't use mace inside, try it , you'll see why. moves?? lol, yea good luck, next time high on drugs crackhead (that don't feel pain, have no fear, and determined to get something, to sell and get drugs) brakes into your house, you use your moves than tell us how it went. as for police siren, lol, you wont hear them, and neither will he\she, you'll be dead on the floor, or dying, and they will be gone, looking to get their dope.

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I think firing a warning shot is a very good idea. Almost anyone that thinks they are being shot at, regardless of if they have a gun or not, is going to first attempt to run. Only people with military/police/gang/hardcorecriminal training or experince is going to hold their ground and shoot back. And probably few of them, if they are smart. No one wants to get killed and so almost everyone will run first.

Looked it up once and there are like a million home invasions stopped each year by personnally owned firearms. Just yelling out a threat that you have a gun is usually enough to get some to flee your home. The numbers of people who will charge ahead after being shot at or told there are homeowners there with guns is very, very small in my opinon.

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Or knowing self-defense moves?

I know lots of people who study Tai-Kwan-Do and are completely helpless. My wife's youngest sister and her friend (Both 14 year old girls) were telling me that it was completely safe for both of them to wander around town late at night because both knew some Tai-Kwan-Do, and one was a black belt. Being a 180 pound 5'9" man, I said, "Oh yeah?" and proceeded, with no training in martial arts at all, to hold both of them down at once and basically slap them around at will.

Knowing martial arts does not protect you unless you are EXTREMELY GOOD at it.

Edited by DieChecker

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lol, you don't use mace inside, try it , you'll see why. moves?? lol, yea good luck, next time high on drugs crackhead (that don't feel pain, have no fear, and determined to get something, to sell and get drugs) brakes into your house, you use your moves than tell us how it went. as for police siren, lol, you wont hear them, and neither will he\she, you'll be dead on the floor, or dying, and they will be gone, looking to get their dope.

What? The only survivors of break-ins, assaults, have shot the perps?

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[

Not to mention, if you fire a warning shot inside, you really mess up your ceiling or the finish on your floors.

Or you could clean up blood and brain matter off the walls, floor, and ceiling.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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My point is if you are not a trained professional, who has been schooled to remain as calm as is possible in stressful situations, and you pull a gun, pointing it and not firing can get you shot. firing a warning shot in hopes of intimidating someone can get you shot. My uncle, a police officer stresses if you ever feel the need to pull your gun to defend youself shoot to kill. do not point, do not threaten, shoot to kill. If you do not intend to shoot someone you should never ever pull a gun out. The part about the warning shot was the only part I was crticizing you about, I totaly agree with you that he went to far with the kill shot as you can see in my original post. But it really can't be stressed enough, taking a warning shot is just a very bad idea. The police don't take warning shots that is hollywood BS.

Why does the perp have to be standing in front of me when I shoot my warning shot? Or even be facing me. This guy was in a basement, the kids were upstairs, he had plenty of room to shoot off a shot or two. I can be on the second floor of my home and hear perps downstairs and can most definitely get off a warning shot and call 911.

I keep repeating, my point is, there is no one rule fits every situation, ever.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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Not to mention, if you fire a warning shot inside, you really mess up your ceiling or the finish on your floors.

Let's not forget the chances of ricochet-ing bullet hitting you!

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I know lots of people who study Tai-Kwan-Do and are completely helpless. My wife's youngest sister and her friend (Both 14 year old girls) were telling me that it was completely safe for both of them to wander around town late at night because both knew some Tai-Kwan-Do, and one was a black belt. Being a 180 pound 5'9" man, I said, "Oh yeah?" and proceeded, with no training in martial arts at all, to hold both of them down at once and basically slap them around at will.

Knowing martial arts does not protect you unless you are EXTREMELY GOOD at it.

I don't believe an average woman with average self defense knowledge who is attacked has no self-defense. Or do I believe that no woman has been successful using self-defense to fight off an attacker unless she's an instructor.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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Let's not forget the chances of ricochet-ing bullet hitting you!

Ricochet off what? What are you shooting, a bb gun? And what do you live in. Ricochet is a very unlikely possibility in a home, that would be my guess anyway.

And I better not miss the the perp if I were worried about ricochet.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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Ricochet off what? What are you shooting, a bb gun? And what do you live in. Ricochet is a very unlikely possibility in a home, that would be my guess anyway.

And I better not miss the the perp if I were worried about ricochet.

That was a joke! We don't have guns here in the UK ...... well, farmers and some criminals do, obviously ...... so my knowledge of them comes from US cartoons :)

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A warning shot from a .22? You wouldn't even hear it if it was shot in the basement and you were upstairs.

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That was a joke! We don't have guns here in the UK ...... well, farmers and some criminals do, obviously ...... so my knowledge of them comes from US cartoons :)

:tu:

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A warning shot from a .22? You wouldn't even hear it if it was shot in the basement and you were upstairs.

I strongly disagree.

.22 breaks the sound barrier. And if i was standing at the top of the stairs I'd absolutely hear it.

Didn't the guy in the OP shoot with a .223, not a .22. .223 is an assault rifle with a lot of powder behind it.

The thought is the kids were outside of the house and didn't hear the shots, or knew what they were. Each came inside the house one at a time, (from an upstairs window?)and he waited for each one in the basement. The whole event is twisted, if you ask me, on both sides.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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I strongly disagree. Of course every home is different, if my basement was some sort of fortress with a shut steel door. Or some similar scenario. But then I could lock out the perps for good, no gun necessary.

.22 breaks the sound barrier. And if i was standing at the top of the stairs I'd absolutely hear it.

The most common .22 ammo is 950 FPS. Sound barrier is 1079 FPS. You can get high powered ammo up to 1250 FPS. The type of ammo is not specified. I have become interested in shooting recently and can safely say i don't use or need hearing protection with a .22 rifle and hence it is not loud enough to frighten anyone away. In fact, you might not even recognize the sound as gun fire.

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The most common .22 ammo is 950 FPS. Sound barrier is 1079 FPS. You can get high powered ammo up to 1250 FPS. The type of ammo is not specified. I have become interested in shooting recently and can safely say i don't use or need hearing protection with a .22 rifle and hence it is not loud enough to frighten anyone away. In fact, you might not even recognize the sound as gun fire.

Aren't subsonic rounds called subsonic? I am talking about my option to use a warning shot. And if I wanted to have the option to scare away perps with gunfire, I know which one I'd own, not subsonic rounds.

And if I wanted the option of also shooting a perp, I wouldn't own a .22 for that purpose either.

Any perp would not mistake my shots for anything but gunshots.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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Aren't subsonic rounds called subsonic? I am talking about my option to use a warning shot. And if I wanted to have the option to scare away perps with gunfire, I know which one I'd own, not subsonic rounds.

And if I wanted the option of also shooting a perp, I wouldn't own a .22 for that purpose either.

Any perp would not mistake my shots for anything but gunshots.

If it was legal in my country to use a gun for self defense (if you have displayed any interest in self defense you cannot own a gun) i wouldn't be firing warning shots. Either you have identified that the intruder is not an immediate threat, and hence you shouldn't shoot, or you haven't identified that the target isn't a immediate threat, hence you take no chances and you shoot at the intruder.

All this is acedemic for me, as my gun is locked in the attic and is only accessable with a ladder, so it's not very likely i can get to the gun, even if my life depended on it, but the law is the law.

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I hope the trash burns in hell (If it existed)

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If it was legal in my country to use a gun for self defense (if you have displayed any interest in self defense you cannot own a gun) i wouldn't be firing warning shots. Either you have identified that the intruder is not an immediate threat, and hence you shouldn't shoot, or you haven't identified that the target isn't a immediate threat, hence you take no chances and you shoot at the intruder.

All this is acedemic for me, as my gun is locked in the attic and is only accessable with a ladder, so it's not very likely i can get to the gun, even if my life depended on it, but the law is the law.

bolding mine

You say you wouldn't fire warning shots. That for you, there are only two options. Identify the situation as a non threat and don't shoot or take no chances and shoot.

Not a threat would be like when your son locks himself out and comes in through a window at 3am. (I'm glad I wouldn't shoot him with my warning shot)

Otherwise, a non lethal threat would entail letting a perp get close to me or all the way inside my home and wait until he makes his intentions known. I don't like this option, I plan on avoiding with warnings (vocal and gun if necessary), defense, escape route, dogs, etc.

Too many innocent people get accidentally shot by people who know them.

So I prefer more than two options.

Edited by QuiteContrary

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bolding mine

You say you wouldn't fire warning shots. That for you, there are only two options. Identify the situation as a non threat and don't shoot or take no chances and shoot.

Not a threat would be like when your son locks himself out and comes in through a window at 3am. (I'm glad I wouldn't shoot him with my warning shot)

Otherwise, a non lethal threat would entail letting a perp get close to me or all the way inside my home and wait until he makes his intentions known. I don't like this option, I plan on avoiding with warnings (vocal and gun if necessary), defense, escape route, dogs, etc.

Too many innocent people get accidentally shot by people who know them.

So I prefer more than two options.

So fire a warning shot which lets the intruder know that your armed, and if he has a gun he'll use it. Doesn't sound like a safe option to me.

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