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'Reasonable force' or 'murder'?

144 posts in this topic

it really does not matter if what he did leagal or not, right or not, the buttom line is, if THEY didn't brake into his house, they would be alive, THEY started chain of events that got them killed. NOT the home owner.

The guilt of the kids really is not in Doubt. But, the kids' guilt does not automatically make the homeowner Innocent? He comitted a crime also. "Chain of events" excuse is total BS.

The bottom line should be, "Don't do the Crime if you don't want to do the Time".

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Yeah, but like JOC just pointed out... The robbers familys are still going to sue you. And their Criminal friends are probably going to come over and Rob him again, once he's put into cuffs and held in the local jail pending a bond hearing. So... you can't win by killing robbers.

Maybe it's because he knew this that he thought he might as well spend the rest of his life in jail?

The bottom line should be, "Don't do the Crime if you don't want to do the Time".

As I said before, perhaps he'd just had enough and thought he might as well do the time.

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Maybe. Sounds like he lived alone. Was old. Grumpy. No friends. Maybe he just needed a change. Maybe this was like a slow suicide.

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I hate how articles always show these kids as if they are innocent angels, every time something like this happens. The girl being a "popular role model" (apparently committing criminal offences is a desirable attribute in a person these days) and the guy is always "making people laugh", both of these aren't a rare find on articles of the like. They probably knew the law, they trespassed and robbed the man. Knowing that deadly force could be applied to them they still underwent the crime.

Seperate to that, do I think you should be able to outright kill someone for robbing your home? No. At the very least try to apprehend them or ask them to leave without your stuff, if they refuse to, appropriate force is necessary. Though over there you don't know if they will have a gun or not on them themselves.

In this case specifically, it seems like an overreaction and spur of the moment bit of anger which caused the man to shoot more than necessary.

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The bottom line should be, "Don't do the Crime if you don't want to do the Time".

The difference between the homeowner and the "kids" that robbed him is; he was not planning on doing anything criminal that day and if it weren't for those pesky kids, he wouldn't have.

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. "Chain of events" excuse is total BS.

perfectly valid excuse.

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sorry, but that just got me. I guess I was raised differently. One rule, not yours? don't touch. How can a homeonwer make it appear to be a good time to break in? The kids shouldn't have broke in. The guy shouldn't have shot them repeatedly. the public shouldn't be saying that they were 'role models'. This whole instance stinks. BUT, it could have been avoided by the kids not breaking in in the first place. Maybe if the punishments for the crimes were harsher, the kids wouldn't be doing things for a lark.

I explained myself already. You're just asking questions twice now. Yes, it's the kids' dumb fault for making this all possible in the first place. And I've also said that this guy pulled a Gran Torino and did it for the greater good but this isn't the movies and vigilantism is against the law. Ain't my fault.

The difference between the homeowner and the "kids" that robbed him is; he was not planning on doing anything criminal that day and if it weren't for those pesky kids, he wouldn't have.

My guess is he was awaiting the day and maybe he didn't have a plan but he knew one day something was going to happen and when that day arrives whatever happens happens and if he comes out on top he's going to teach them a lesson and others too. Or maybe he just likes to kill and the kids walk into the trap like a bad horror movie. Edited by -Mr_Fess-

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One thing I have not seen brought up here is how do they know this was a case of burglary and not a home invasion? How do we know these kids weren't going to torture this guy and take his stuff or worse? He must've been known as an easy target due to the past incidents, right? Why not have some fun?

Even though the bath salts craze kind of died down, I'm not taking any chance or waiting a few minutes to find out someone's intentions. It takes total desperation/fiendish insanity to walk up to someone else's property and say, "I'm going inside uninvited and getting what I want, regardless of the consequences or who I hurt or worse". Put yourself into that mindset and then you'll know what you're dealing with...

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They probably knew the law, they trespassed and robbed the man. Knowing that deadly force could be applied to them they still underwent the crime.

Quite probably since this had happened to the man so many times, the kids thought he would just hide and do nothing. That he was an easy victim. It may have even been some kind of initiation.

Still they should not have been doing it and should not have been there.

Edit: The OP article says that the kids busted out a window to get in. That sounds like they knew what they were doing.

Edited by DieChecker
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My guess is he was awaiting the day and maybe he didn't have a plan but he knew one day something was going to happen and when that day arrives whatever happens happens and if he comes out on top he's going to teach them a lesson and others too. Or maybe he just likes to kill and the kids walk into the trap like a bad horror movie.

One thing the old man has in his favor, is that he was using a .22 pistol. No one in their right mind would use a .22 pistol to fight robbers. If this guy had planned ahead even a little bit, he'd have bought a 9mm at least.

Did the article say what kind of weapon it was?

Edit: Apparently he had a rifle and a 22 pistol. Supposedly he'd previously been robbed of electronics and thousands of dollars of guns. So, probably his best guns had already been stolen.

Also he reportedly shot guns on his property, meaning this was a rural home, not a neighborhood. So, the kids obviously knew where they were and what they were doing.

perfectly valid excuse.

Not in an American Court.

Edited by DieChecker
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I hate how articles always show these kids as if they are innocent angels, every time something like this happens.

Went back and looked at the OP article again. Full of pics of smiling children, and weeping friends and family. And a mug shot of the accused. Looks like a total railroad job.

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The guy should be in jail just like the kids should have been.

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I explained myself already. You're just asking questions twice now. Yes, it's the kids' dumb fault for making this all possible in the first place.

I was commenting on your comment. And how would I ask 'twice' when I had only commented quite a few pages back? Edited by glorybebe

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One thing I have not seen brought up here is how do they know this was a case of burglary and not a home invasion? How do we know these kids weren't going to torture this guy and take his stuff or worse? He must've been known as an easy target due to the past incidents, right? Why not have some fun?

Even though the bath salts craze kind of died down, I'm not taking any chance or waiting a few minutes to find out someone's intentions. It takes total desperation/fiendish insanity to walk up to someone else's property and say, "I'm going inside uninvited and getting what I want, regardless of the consequences or who I hurt or worse". Put yourself into that mindset and then you'll know what you're dealing with...

smiley-good-post-sign.gif

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I was commenting on your comment. And how would I ask 'twice' when I had only commented quite a few pages back?

Because only a few pages back or less I was asked the same similar questions about the same things. Was just pointing out that I was repeating myself and you possibly didn't notice due to thread skimming. No biggie...

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This is what I meant in my OP: if you break into someone else's property you risk anything happening to you! This could be an attack by pitbulls; the homeowner having a heart attack and you get charged with murder; through to being held hostage, tortured and abused for hours, days, weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245791/Bruised-swollen-face-suspected-burglar-broke-home-boxer.html

Something else that can happen to you when you break into someone else's property with the intention of stealing their stuff.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245791/Bruised-swollen-face-suspected-burglar-broke-home-boxer.html

Something else that can happen to you when you break into someone else's property with the intention of stealing their stuff.

Man that dudes eyes are jacked up. Maybe he'll decide to get a job next time he needs something he doesn't have.

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He doesn't look as old as 19, does he?

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Too bad there isn't a video of that exchange! 'just my luck to break into the garage of a martial artist'

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