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iforgot

Where do athiests think we came from?

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I wouldn't call it that. Were you high?

I am laughing so hard.

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That's because there isn't an answer. Just educated guesses based on decades of observation, experimentation and maths.

Yes and none of those observations, experiments or maths have proven there is no god either. Where as some of those have shown signs ther eis an unexplainable link between everything.

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Certainly, definitely, in your opinion? Please tell me that was meant to be a joke :P

It was my opinion based on what I personally "believe".

Joke? please tell me why you would think that? You give me some concrete proof that god is around us as opposed to the forces of nature which has been proven.

I give fill up this whole forum on what is natural around us and what effect nature has on our lives and life itself. nature is not a god, it is a creative force within the elements of the Universe. :P

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We're stardust...really

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Yes and none of those observations, experiments or maths have proven there is no god either.

We don't have observations, experiments or maths to disprove leprechauns, faeries, pixies, gnomes, elves, or dragons either.

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Yes and none of those observations, experiments or maths have proven there is no god either. Where as some of those have shown signs ther eis an unexplainable link between everything.

So an as of yet unexplained mechanism in quantum physics means god? Please. Talk about reaching.

I don't fully understand fluid dynamics. Must be god, right?

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So an as of yet unexplained mechanism in quantum physics means god? Please. Talk about reaching.

I don't fully understand fluid dynamics. Must be god, right?

Eh, I don't understand how my car engine works...god???

Like I taught my kids - saying I don't know is ok. There is no need to fill any knowledge gap with magic. It's NEVER the answer.

Nibs

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Eh, I don't understand how my car engine works...god???

Like I taught my kids - saying I don't know is ok. There is no need to fill any knowledge gap with magic. It's NEVER the answer.

Nibs

I know how most of my engine works. The cooling system is the realm of god, however.

We're stardust...really

Probably the most accurate thing stated in this thread.

We don't have observations, experiments or maths to disprove leprechauns, faeries, pixies, gnomes, elves, or dragons either.

Well, OBVIOUSLY, that means that they are real.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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Well, OBVIOUSLY, that means that they are real.

Oh, how I love argumentum ad ignorantiam.

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Oh, how I love argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Seems to be the most common approach on here. I've not heard one logical argument for the existence of a god. Ever.

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Seems to be the most common approach on here. I've not heard one logical argument for the existence of a god. Ever.

While there have been some impressive arguments on here, I have yet to find one that convinces me of god's existence as being "irrefutable". Most of those who favour god (and I know you know EXACTLY who I am speaking of) tend to concoct their own theories based on pseudo-scientific claptrap. It is hard to take them seriously.

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It was my opinion based on what I personally "believe".

Joke? please tell me why you would think that? You give me some concrete proof that god is around us as opposed to the forces of nature which has been proven.

I give fill up this whole forum on what is natural around us and what effect nature has on our lives and life itself. nature is not a god, it is a creative force within the elements of the Universe. :P

[Finished banging head on wall]

You cannot say that something is certainly, definitely the case and that it is just your opinion in the same sentence. They contradict each other.

As has been said by others, when you can disprove something, you can say it doesn't exist. Until then your just filling the gaps. Just as bad as filling them with leprechauns. When you have conclusive proof that gods cannot exist, give me a shout :sleepy:

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[Finished banging head on wall]

You cannot say that something is certainly, definitely the case and that it is just your opinion in the same sentence. They contradict each other.

As has been said by others, when you can disprove something, you can say it doesn't exist. Until then your just filling the gaps. Just as bad as filling them with leprechauns. When you have conclusive proof that gods cannot exist, give me a shout :sleepy:

You see, this is what confuses me among the happy clappy lot. There is no proof at all that god exists, but you still insist on it. Fine, i respect that, but please do not tell me he does when you can not show conclusive proof that he does.

I have the conclusive proof he does not exist: there is absolutely no evidence found throughout history to back you up, all you have to back up your theory is what is in your head and what is written in a novel...and that just aint good enough for me.

You can not spin this one round when you have NO proof.

you can not ask someone to prove something is, when there is nothing to prove in the first place and nothing to prove it with!

Edited by freetoroam

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While there have been some impressive arguments on here, I have yet to find one that convinces me of god's existence as being "irrefutable". Most of those who favour god (and I know you know EXACTLY who I am speaking of) tend to concoct their own theories based on pseudo-scientific claptrap. It is hard to take them seriously.

I've seen some of the strangest arguments for god(s) on these forums. And you're right, it's almost always based on malarkey and flimflammery. Or it's just "I know."

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I've seen some of the strangest arguments for god(s) on these forums. And you're right, it's almost always based on malarkey and flimflammery. Or it's just "I know."

"God is real to me because he revealed himself to me in an experience. To reinforce my belief, I... (insert pseudo scientific bull****)."

Edited by Alienated Being
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You see, this is what confuses me among the happy clappy lot. There is no proof at all that god exists, but you still insist on it. Fine, i respect that, but please do not tell me he does when you can not show conclusive proof that he does.

I have the conclusive proof he does not exist: there is absolutely no evidence found throughout history to back you up, all you have to back up your theory is what is in your head and what is written in a novel...and that just aint good enough for me.

Where did I tell you god exists? Please, if you're going to act all offended, at least get your facts straight.

As an extra, you do not have proof god does not exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You can not spin this one round when you have NO proof.

you can not ask someone to prove something is, when there is nothing to prove in the first place and nothing to prove it with!

I honestly have no idea what that last sentence is meant to be about. On the off chance that it's the usual 'you can't ask someone to prove something doesn't exist' then that's outright wrong. The only way you can say something is definitely the case is to disprove all other possibilities.

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I know I'm late on answering the OPs question, but I believe that The Universe always has been & always will be. Life has continued to evolve from different states & is created from different environmental states.

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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is a terrible argument. Whoever said it (was it Carl Sagan?) probably thought it sounded good as a writer. But it isn't accurate. It would be better to say

"Absence of evidence is not proof of absence"

But that doesn't sound as good. The fact of the matter is that absence of evidence is often very good evidence of absence.

Imagine coming home from a night out and your better half states "oh my god, we've been burgled". There's no sign of any forced entry. As far as you can tell, nothing has been taken. And the place appears just how you left it. You can't prove beyond any doubt that nobody has been there whilst you were out, but the absence of any evidence to the contrary is pretty strong evidence for the absence of any burglary.

The god that many people believe in can be subject to the same scrutiny. The complete absence of any evidence for a personal god, who answers prayers, heals the sick, performs miracles, etc is very strong evidence that this entity does not exist.

Edited by Arbenol68
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This is a terrible argument. Whoever said it (was it Carl Sagan?) probably thought it sounded good as a writer. But it isn't accurate. It would be better to say

"Absence of evidence is not proof of absence"

But that doesn't sound as good. The fact of the matter is that absence of evidence is often very good evidence of absence.

Imagine coming home from a night out and your better half states "oh my god, we've been burgled". There's no sign of any forced entry. As far as you can tell, nothing has been taken. And the place appears just how you left it. You can't prove beyond any doubt that nobody has been there whilst you were out, but the absence of any evidence to the contrary is pretty strong evidence for the absence of any burglary.

The god that many people believe in can be subject to the same scrutiny. The complete absence of any evidence for a personal god, who answers prayers, heals the sick, performs miracles, etc is very strong evidence that this entity does not exist.

Good point.I've no idea who first said it. It's a common phrase among re-enactors is all I know :) However, it still does not allow anyone to categorically say there is no such thing as god. Just as the lack of concrete evidence should prevent believers saying there definitely is a god. It can't be proven either way.

(Although the fact that nothing has been taken or damaged and no-one is hurt would in fact be proof that you have not been burgled :P I do take your point though.)

Edited by Setton

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Where did I tell you god exists?

Do you believe god exists...?

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Do you believe god exists...?

I do believe it, yes. Not necessarily the god of the Bible but a god. You'll notice I don't say it's definitely the case though.

Edited by Setton

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I do believe it, yes. Not necessarily the god of the Bible but a god. You'll notice I don't say it's definitely the case though.

What's the difference? - You either do believe or you don't believe ...Using the word - Definitely or not, doesn't mean a thing in what you have said...

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You didn't explain how it was "created" int he first place.

I do not follow a religion, but I find it hilarious how Atheists and Scientists both NEVER anwer the question properly. All you did was explain how you think it works. Not how it started.

The question isn't "answered properly" because its never asked properly. What do you mean by "how it started"? You mean time? The laws of physics we know today? Our observable universe? The four dimensions we live in? Each one is a different, highly complex area, that doesn't have a definitive answer and may never.

The idea that there was no universe, and then there was a universe is utterly out of date.

Yes and none of those observations, experiments or maths have proven there is no god either. Where as some of those have shown signs ther eis an unexplainable link between everything.

God is unfalsifiable by definition. You will never disprove it, which is what makes it a thoroughly unscientific concept.

And saying "there is a link between everything that is unexplainable is both unacceptably vague and verging on a God Of The Gaps argument.

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What's the difference? - You either do believe or you don't believe ...Using the word - Definitely or not, doesn't mean a thing in what you have said...

Of course it does. Saying 'I believe there is a god' is very different to saying 'there definitely is a god'. The first leaves room for the possibility that the speaker may be wrong. The second is a definitive statement and should therefore be backed up with evidence. A belief does not need to be.

I'm perfectly happy to answer questions about my beliefs although I fail to see what relevance it has to the topic.

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Of course it does. Saying 'I believe there is a god' is very different to saying 'there definitely is a god'. The first leaves room for the possibility that the speaker may be wrong. The second is a definitive statement and should therefore be backed up with evidence. A belief does not need to be.

Okie dokie

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