Feeding pets

[Mistydawn]

As a Vegan or Vegetarian, how do you justify feeding your cat or dog with meat products?

Or if fyou don't, what do you feed them?

[Keel M.]

Isn't that what they'd eat if they were wild?

[freetoroam]

Isn't that what they'd eat if they were wild?

Who, the vegans and the vegetarians?

[Keel M.]

The dogs and cats....

[Urisk]

Dogs can survive on a little veg in their diet but cats have a completely different metabolism and need a diet VERY rich in Nitrogen. In other words pretty much meat. Any vegan/vegetarian who tries to force their carnivorous pets into a meat-free diet is in effect committing an act of animal cruelty. In the case of cats, they will try and catch their own anyway by hunting, rendering the endeavour completely pointless.

[Ashotep]

I eat meat but I wouldn't force my horse to eat it since he is a vegetarian.

[Michelle]

As a Vegan or Vegetarian, how do you justify feeding your cat or dog with meat products?

Or if fyou don't, what do you feed them?

I've often wondered how they do that. Betty White is one of my heroes in animal rescue and she is a vegetarian. I'm pretty sure she would do what is best for the animals in her care by feeding them meat.

[Mistydawn]

I've often wondered how they do that. Betty White is one of my heroes in animal rescue and she is a vegetarian. I'm pretty sure she would do what is best for the animals in her care by feeding them meat.

I just wondered, I mean the tins of meat for pets are presumably from animals that have been killed, it's a dilemma isn't it.

[Bling]

Not feeding dogs and cats meat is cruel, they have canine teeth for a reason!

[Mistydawn]

Not feeding dogs and cats meat is cruel, they have canine teeth for a reason!

I understand your stance Bling, but if you were a Vegan say, killing and eating meat is a no-no, so if you had a pet dog or cat, how could you justify feeding them meat that you buy?

[Bling]

I understand your stance Bling, but if you were a Vegan say, killing and eating meat is a no-no, so if you had a pet dog or cat, how could you justify feeding them meat that you buy?

I would never inflict my beliefs onto a pet if it had the possibility of harming them. If I were a vegan/veggie, I wouldn't have pets that I couldn't feed to the best of my ability. But I'd never be a vegan/veggie because I too have canine teeth and believe humans should feel free to eat meat if they want.

[Urisk]

I understand your stance Bling, but if you were a Vegan say, killing and eating meat is a no-no, so if you had a pet dog or cat, how could you justify feeding them meat that you buy?

Well it's either feed them what they have evolved to eat or malnourish them. Which is worse? If you can't answer that question correctly you don't deserve to own a dog or a cat. There are plenty animals you can own that don't eat meat. Rabbits are a good bet.

Perhaps with a cat it's not quite so bad if you let it out- it will just go out and kill wild animals like cute ickle birdies. By feeding it cat food, it should reduce the hunting instinct at least a little by satisfying the cat. It will not stop the instinct completely, but it will reduce the pressure. If you deprive the cat of its diet it will hunt more, thus essentially negating the philosophy behind NOT feeding it meat in the first place. If you can't look after an animal properly, you don't deserve to have it!

[Sakari]

I understand your stance Bling, but if you were a Vegan say, killing and eating meat is a no-no, so if you had a pet dog or cat, how could you justify feeding them meat that you buy?

If that were the case, then you would also understand slowly killing a dog or cat by not feeding it what it needs would be a no-no.

This is from a Vet on that exact question :

Well, first up, the obvious: Cats are obligate carnivores. Offering them a vegan approach is about as biologically appropriate as feeding them granola bars. OK, so I exaggerate, but it’s not too far off.

For dogs, our understanding is murkier, given that studying wild dogs' anatomy, physiology and behavior tells us one thing (i.e., that they’re mostly carnivorous), and studying what domesticated lab-reared beagles can digest tells us another (i.e., that dogs digest vegetable protein better than we previously thought).

That said, even the beagle-wielding commercial pet food nutritionists who champion the benefits of soy protein and corn gluten are nowhere near recommending exclusively veggie diets. Most veterinary nutritionists have concluded that dogs are solidly omnivorous, with an emphasis on the kinds of foods their dentition would indicate they’re built to consume - that is, both cuspids for tearing and molars for grinding. Hence, a meat-based diet with other stuff thrown in.

Which is why I’ll not be pushing the dietary envelope with my patients, thank you very much. In fact, beagles being the most digestively capable example of any organism (with the possible exception of flesh-eating bacteria), in this case I think I’ll stick to what observing the natural world sans human intervention can teach us.

But what about people with religious issues, you ask?

It is one thing to source kosher or halal foods for your pet. It’s quite another to expect our pets to subsist on a vegan diet because we have a personal or political issue with consuming animal proteins.

After all, if you really want a vegetarian pet you can adopt a rabbit, get a goat, consider horses or buy a guinea pig. There are plenty of vegetarian options for those who really want to share the experience with their pets. There is no need to inflict a biologically stressful condition on another species just because you happen to feel inclined towards such a diet for yourself.

Apples ... and oranges.

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2010/oct/vegetarian_cats_dogs#.ULqs_4Y_JtQ

And I agree 100%

[Miss Shadows]

I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but I am something called a pescatarian, not because I hate animals (I Love them as a matter of fact). I think to inflict suffering upon another living thing as an act of sadism is horrid, but at the same time I don't think animals experience prolonged pain to supply my personal eating choices or undergo horrific treatment in the process. I do feed my dog regular dog food and select table scraps here and there, but I also make sure she does have a certain amount of meat in her diet. Why? Again, because I Love animals and despite what people may say to make themselves feel better, if someone put the same thing on a plate in front of you every single day of your life, you'd get bored with it. That's one big reason, and another being similar to what I think another poster said before me, that dogs a thousand years ago weren't eating kibble, and likewise in the wild today. My dog isn't even close to being fully domesticated by breed/species, and between my own research and talking to her vet, I've reached the conclusion there's a certain amount of meat that she needs to help maintain her health, and I believe if I knew that number and neglected it, I'd be hurting animals more so than I would be by eating them.

[Bonecrusher]

I think people need to get over the hang-up of old habits dying hard because they're a sub-species of the grey wolf.

I can assure you if I statistically place Jammie Dodgers all over the house during the day my dogs are happy as larry.

But I'm sure they prefer meat especially sausages which gets them climbing up on the kitchen units.

Don't forget that humans have canines too and don't crave meat on a regular basis.

I'll admit though they are pretty handy when chowing down on a juicy steak.

So the original threadstarter can feed a dog whatever the eck they want.

However I gather cats are more fussy so you can't force feed them vegetables.

Lady Kasey made a significant point about them living in the wild.

They could well revert to type without our influence.

[Sakari]

I think people need to get over the hang-up of old habits dying hard because they're a sub-species of the grey wolf.

I can assure you if I statistically place Jammie Dodgers all over the house during the day my dogs are happy as larry.

But I'm sure they prefer meat especially sausages which gets them climbing up on the kitchen units.

Don't forget that humans have canines too and don't crave meat on a regular basis.

I'll admit though they are pretty handy when chowing down on a juicy steak.

So the original threadstarter can feed a dog whatever the eck they want.

However I gather cats are more fussy so you can't force feed them vegetables.

Lady Kasey made a significant point about them living in the wild.

They could well revert to type without our influence.

It is not about what they " like ", it is about what they " need "......

I had posted a quote from a Vet, you should check Vet sites, and call yours and ask also. When it comes to medical advice, I do not think it should matter if it is for a animal or a human, we should not be able to give it on this site.

So yes, he/she can feed his/her dog whatever they want........Someone said it was ok on the internet, so it must be ok.

If / when your dog(s) die or get sick, maybe then you will have realized they may have been poisoned, or not given things they needed. And should have asked a Vets advice.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Sakari

[Bonecrusher]

It is not about what they " like ", it is about what they " need "......

I had posted a quote from a Vet, you should check Vet sites, and call yours and ask also. When it comes to medical advice, I do not think it should matter if it is for a animal or a human, we should not be able to give it on this site.

So yes, he/she can feed his/her dog whatever they want........Someone said it was ok on the internet, so it must be ok.

If / when your dog(s) die or get sick, maybe then you will have realized they may have been poisoned, or not given things they needed. And should have asked a Vets advice.

Cheers for pointing out my flaws...

If I had said "within reason" after "whatever they eck they want",the vets wouldn't be in arms as much.

I thought my original statement was quite arrogant and further proof you need to think before you post.

I was just too focused on Jammie Dodgers at the exemption of others which is rather silly.

Of course I knew about chocolate and onions being dangerous to dogs. And that's only the ones I know about.

I'm glad you put me straight because we could had ended up with sick pooches showing up everywhere.

So on that note I apologise from the bottom of my heart for some misguided advice.

That goes out especially to the original threadstarter.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Walnut Whip

[Sakari]

Cheers for pointing out my flaws...

If I had said "within reason" after "whatever they eck they want",the vets wouldn't be in arms as much.

I thought my original statement was quite arrogant and further proof you need to think before you post.

I was just too focused on Jammie Dodgers at the exemption of others which is rather silly.

Of course I knew about chocolate and onions being dangerous to dogs. And that's only the ones I know about.

I'm glad you put me straight because we could had ended up with sick pooches showing up everywhere.

So on that note I apologise from the bottom of my heart for some misguided advice.

That goes out especially to the original threadstarter.

Wow....Take the reply a little personal?......All that I did is reply in a discussion. And posted my opinion on the matter.

UM needs a Counseling topic, where we all can learn to have discussions, and read feedback without getting all upset.

[Bonecrusher]

Wow....Take the reply a little personal?......All that I did is reply in a discussion. And posted my opinion on the matter.

UM needs a Counseling topic, where we all can learn to have discussions, and read feedback without getting all upset.

I couldn't well leave it unanswered after setting a dangerous precedent.

What would be even worse is either you ignore my original post or I ignore yours.

However I'm sure all dog lovers should have realised my accidental mistake.

It's an issue that needed to be addressed and stop an avalanche of disgruntled dog owners.

I replied in a clear,concise manner that you couldn't confuse for somebody blowing their top.

I'm sure other posters would have interpreted it differently.

A UM counselling topic could come in handy but I'm not volunteering for it's services.

Why should I when I'm usually cool as a cucumber anyway.

[Ealdwita]

Try waving a brussels sprout under the beak of a peregrine falcon and see what happens!

[Mistydawn]

Try waving a brussels sprout under the beak of a peregrine falcon and see what happens!

I eat meat, I feed my dog meat.

My beef, ahem is with Vegans and Veggies who stand on platforms and spout their beliefs yet have pets that they feed... on meat? or not? and what they have to say.

I thank you all for your responses, but I really want the Vegan/Veggies who own pets to respond. Maybe there aren't any on UM?

[Beckys_Mom]

My late and old faithful hound Charlie wouldn't eat any veg I snuck into his dinner bowl

I remember we used to save him the left overs from our roast dinners, he loved them.. But, when I tried adding in some veg, he refused to eat it.. In fact, what my dog used to do if he found veg in his bowl along with the meat, he would take each piece of veg out and lined them up in a row beside his bowl, and he carried on eating his dinner

Sometimes you would go out and see, a row of broccoli and sprouts next to his bowl, and he has that look on his face as if to say - "Don't try and feed me that muck !!" My dog wasn't having it.. I got away with sneaking doggy vitamins in his dinner, but not the veg, it was is if he felt insulted My dog valued his meat and IAMS, he loved drinking water and at times would sneak cheese off our plates and ran ..He was a sucker for cheese !!

My two cats wouldn't eat any veg, I noticed this when my daughter who also refuses to eat her veg.. She got up from the dinning table and left some meat, potatoes and sweetcorn mixed with peas on her plate.. Our tom cat Wallie jumped up and polished off the meat, ate a little potato, but would not entertain the veg..he sniffed at it and ran off ..His sister Misty is no different, she wont touch veg...

Edited December 8, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Mistydawn]

My dog loves raw carrots, but I am pretty sure he wouldn't want them alone in his dinner bowl..

[Beckys_Mom]

My dog loves raw carrots, but I am pretty sure he wouldn't want them alone in his dinner bowl..

I found this article for you..

The Non-Vegan Pet Loophole

Vegans wanting to extend their ethics to every domain under their control often rear their dogs and cats as little furry meat abstainers. Some call this cruelty to animals (a charge that is sometimes undermined by the accusers’ support of factory farming), but if imposing a vegan diet on someone is a form of cruelty, it’s at least a cruelty that vegans are willing to foist upon themselves. Vegans have good reason to fill their omnivorous dogs and carnivorous cats with animal-free kibble: it’s the only way for them to be relatively consistent with their ethics. It’s vegans feeding their rescue pets carcass who open up a vicious anti-vegan loophole.

“If wild animals get to eat other animals, why can’t humans?” is a stock question that vegans get a lot, and seasoned veggie apologists have their retorts ready. Unless they are obsessed with suffering reduction, most vegans are happy to wash their hands of what animals do to each other when humans aren’t looking. Wild creatures don’t live by complex ethical frameworks, so no ethics are breached when a porpoise eats a fish. As long as humans aren’t involved, what happens in nature stays in nature.

Also relevant, vegans say, is that humans have tamed the land to produce vegetables, fruits and grains, somewhat at our whim, making it possible for us to live without eating meat. Eating meat becomes cruel the exact moment it is possible to survive without it. Wild animals, who lack the intelligence and opposable digits required to plant, harvest and write out ethical screeds, can’t be blamed for eating meat; they have no choice.

But a variation of this question can highlight the culpability of (some) vegans in a scenario that hits closer to home. Something like: “If you don’t have a problem with buying meat for your pets, why do you have a problem with me buying meat for myself?”

Read more here -> http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/14737587461/non-vegan-pet-loophole

[little_dreamer]

Someone gave me some issues of Vegetarian Times magazine. I saw that there were advertisements for vegetarian dog and cat food. So the stuff exists out there, but I don't know of any studies on how well the pets do if they only eat these products.

I know cats are considered almost exclusively carnivorous, more than dogs.