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WHO U KIDDIN

Israel pushes plans for 3000 new settlements

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In reality unfairness is what keeps wars going not only in ME, not only now but in the past and future. We have not learned that there is no lasting peace without fairness. Unfair treatment of Germany after wwl gave us Adolf. Unfair tratment and blindness, even ignorancy, gave us wwll. Unfair blokade of weapons to bosnia gave us Srebrenica...and so on and on...if its not fair it aint right, it will not vanish it will come back to kick our ars.

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This is a Gandhi quote, not an Einstein one.

Well, since you are in the nitpicking mode....

The quote “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind” is frequently attributed to M. K. Gandhi. The Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence states

that the Gandhi family believes it is an authentic Gandhi quotation, but no example of its use by the Indian leader has ever been discovered.

In fact the quote, in its various forms, has been attributed to various people going back to Biblical times.

So, rather than nitpicking on irrelevant points you should be concentrating on the sad fact that two

people are killing each other.

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In reality unfairness is what keeps wars going not only in ME, not only now but in the past and future. We have not learned that there is no lasting peace without fairness. Unfair treatment of Germany after wwl gave us Adolf. Unfair tratment and blindness, even ignorancy, gave us wwll. Unfair blokade of weapons to bosnia gave us Srebrenica...and so on and on...if its not fair it aint right, it will not vanish it will come back to kick our ars.

I totally agree that a lack of fairness and justice only rankles and causes future problems. But the problem is in who decides what is fair. It was partially an attempt (IMO) to render fairness and mercy to the Holocaust survivors that this land was set aside as it was. The world had been at war and boundaries were being changed so the timing was ripe for making adjustments for the sake of the innocents. Had the Arab inhabitants of the portion of Palestine that was partitioned to Israel been willing to compromise and their brethren in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt been willing to welcome them in there would be no conflict today. But the enmity between Arab and Jew is ancient and no attempt was ever made to bridge the gaps and find compromise. Unless some external force is enabled in the future to force a peace on the region then the only hope for a cessation of violence long term is for one side to win a clear victory. This family feud is a microcosm of all the conflicts in the world. I think it's being played out to teach us all a lesson.

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Odas you are speaking about fairness and I am speaking about reality. Would you rather see ongoing violence that eventually might cause a world war or see Israel left with the land it was given? Because I think THAT is the reality we all face. To continue to bemoan the unfairness of the plight of one small group of people over another is pointless. UNLESS..... fairness is worth WWIII. If that is your premise then I say I admire your ethics but don't think much of your rationality.

"To continue to bemoan the unfairness of the plight of one small group over another is pointless. Unless…fairness is worth WWIII.”

But of course Resistance is futile!

According to your divinely inspired irrational line of thought the world should continue to be unfair to the Palestinian plight and perhaps offer them up as humanity’s ‘global sacrificial lambs’ so that the Zionist overlords will be please with mankind and we all can avoid WWIII and live in peace.

What happen did you have a sudden change of heart Then? Doesn’t WWIII have to start so you can get ‘rapture’ by your overlord and fulfill its Luciferian prophecies?

Then your twisted racist logic is the same kind of reasoning that the Nazis used as they lead the Jews, Gypsies, political dissenters and disabled of Europe to the death camps during WWII. In your view the Palestinians are not human, they are all Muslim monsters, murderers, scoundrels and curs out to destroy and drive the god loving Jews out of Israel. Anything less then the holy dream of a Greater Israel is unacceptable in your virtual reality.

This Hatfield-McCoy attitude that people like you, the Zionists and Meshal’s Hamas espouse only serves to continue the never-ending bloodshed that engulfs the region. What’s really absurd is how you all claim to do it in the name of your gods, as commanded by your holy books.

If a truly honest brokered political solution is unacceptable to all the extremists in this mess then the fate of millions is truly in the hands of the lunatics. If the voices of moderation and reason allows the forces of extremism to overwhelm it then humanity is finished.

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This revolting announcement by the regime in Israel is just more punishment for innocent Palestinians for their bureaucrats "unilaterally going to the UN", which is the most multilateral action one can take. Illegal, immoral, and completely FoS. Nothing new here.

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“An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”

technically, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world with one eye, not blind :whistle:

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EU 'deeply dismayed' by Israeli settlements

Latest Update: 12.10.12, 21:02

European Union warns Israel against going through with plans to build new settler homes; PM dismisses criticism as double standard

The bloc's 27 foreign ministers said they were "deeply dismayed" by Israeli plans to expand settlements in east Jerusalem and particularly the E1 project, which would separate the West Bank from east Jerusalem, the Palestinians' hoped-for capital, and drive a big wedge between the northern and southern flanks of the West Bank.

The European Union warned Israel of unspecified consequences Monday if it goes through with plans to build thousands of new settler homes in Jerusalem and the West Bank....

Read more: http://www.ynetnews....4318124,00.html

Palestinians consider ICC if Israel pursues settlements

December 11, 2012 05:22 PM

Palestinian president Palestine could pursue http://www.dailystar...x#ixzz2EmivcuAm

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN

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Give them the South African treatment. Eventually they will cave.

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I totally agree that a lack of fairness and justice only rankles and causes future problems. But the problem is in who decides what is fair. It was partially an attempt (IMO) to render fairness and mercy to the Holocaust survivors that this land was set aside as it was. The world had been at war and boundaries were being changed so the timing was ripe for making adjustments for the sake of the innocents. Had the Arab inhabitants of the portion of Palestine that was partitioned to Israel been willing to compromise and their brethren in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt been willing to welcome them in there would be no conflict today. But the enmity between Arab and Jew is ancient and no attempt was ever made to bridge the gaps and find compromise. Unless some external force is enabled in the future to force a peace on the region then the only hope for a cessation of violence long term is for one side to win a clear victory. This family feud is a microcosm of all the conflicts in the world. I think it's being played out to teach us all a lesson.

A decision to give a nations lands away and force them to migrate to neighbor countries where they would be second class citizens is not fair. The granting of lands in line with Biblical prophecy was always going to cause the problems it has. Israel should exist in continental Europe or continental America and the powers that be had the power to grant that.

Israel is acting out Biblical prophecy and that means there will not be peace until greater Israel is formed. This means that there will never be a willing peace between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

Following legendary stories of entitlement is dangerous and stupid.

The situation was entirely unjust and entirely avoidable. The world should hang its head in shame for allowing it to happen.

Br Cornelius

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A decision to give a nations lands away and force them to migrate to neighbor countries where they would be second class citizens is not fair. The granting of lands in line with Biblical prophecy was always going to cause the problems it has. Israel should exist in continental Europe or continental America and the powers that be had the power to grant that.

Israel is acting out Biblical prophecy and that means there will not be peace until greater Israel is formed. This means that there will never be a willing peace between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

Following legendary stories of entitlement is dangerous and stupid.

The situation was entirely unjust and entirely avoidable. The world should hang its head in shame for allowing it to happen.

Br Cornelius

What's even sadder is that there is no real basis to these biblical prophecies.

People interpret certain biblical passages in a manner that appropriately fits their scenario and the outcomes that they envision...

Did you know that at one time even Uganda was considered as a location for a Jewish state.

And that even the old USSR back from the 1920's through the 40s actually had a Jewish state? It was called The Jewish Autonomous Oblast...

Read more: http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/221/birobidjan-the-story-of-the-first-jewish-state

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I can`nt see why the Palestinians just don`t give up the fighting and accept Isreal as a state and peacefully live with it, the indians of America did to the Europeans, now they found out through DNA the indians were Europeans:)

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112739952/native-americans-northern-europeans-dna-genetic-links-120112/

Edited by docyabut2

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What's even sadder is that there is no real basis to these biblical prophecies.

People interpret certain biblical passages in a manner that appropriately fits their scenario and the outcomes that they envision...

Did you know that at one time even Uganda was considered as a location for a Jewish state.

And that even the old USSR back from the 1920's through the 40s actually had a Jewish state? It was called The Jewish Autonomous Oblast...

Read more: http://www.studentpu...st-jewish-state

Should've carved out a part of Germany after WW2. After all, it was Germans who so horribly wronged innocent Jews.

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Where else would Briton and the UN have offered land and a state to the Jews,except for the fact that is the land where they had originally came from?

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I can`nt see why the Palestinians just don`t give up the fighting and accept Isreal as a state and peacefully live with it, the indians of America did to the Europeans, now they found out through DNA the indians were Europeans:)

http://www.redorbit....c-links-120112/

First enjoyed the article.

Second the Native Americans did not live peacefully with European domination.

Please read the book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown, to learn the history of the Native American genocide which commenced with the original European colonists and was finalized by their 'American-European' descendents.

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Where else would Briton and the UN have offered land and a state to the Jews,except for the fact that is the land where they had originally came from?

This is how I feel as well. And not just to be contrary about it. To my knowledge there has never been another people group in modern times that has retained it's essential identity and culture over such a long time and under such conditions of diaspora so why should it seem so extraordinary that that people would also want to settle in the land where that all began? But none of that really matters in this conflict. The two sides are completely entrenched and outsiders will not change things for the better until there is some fundamental change of strength of position on the ground. Either a war or, perhaps, some kind of change economically that strengthens and or weakens one group against the other. The change would probably be unexpected and tectonic in nature. Then maybe there would be a short window for compromise. But as things stand now - concrete.

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The state of Israel felt that they have the firepower to impose their will on people that they stole the land from.

Then the same state and quality of firepower must be made available to the Palestinians to defend the right to the land they

and their ancestors were born in.

The only road to true peace must be from position of equality.

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"To continue to bemoan the unfairness of the plight of one small group over another is pointless. Unless…fairness is worth WWIII.”

But of course Resistance is futile!

According to your divinely inspired irrational line of thought the world should continue to be unfair to the Palestinian plight and perhaps offer them up as humanity’s ‘global sacrificial lambs’ so that the Zionist overlords will be please with mankind and we all can avoid WWIII and live in peace.

What happen did you have a sudden change of heart Then? Doesn’t WWIII have to start so you can get ‘rapture’ by your overlord and fulfill its Luciferian prophecies?

Then your twisted racist logic is the same kind of reasoning that the Nazis used as they lead the Jews, Gypsies, political dissenters and disabled of Europe to the death camps during WWII. In your view the Palestinians are not human, they are all Muslim monsters, murderers, scoundrels and curs out to destroy and drive the god loving Jews out of Israel. Anything less then the holy dream of a Greater Israel is unacceptable in your virtual reality.

This Hatfield-McCoy attitude that people like you, the Zionists and Meshal’s Hamas espouse only serves to continue the never-ending bloodshed that engulfs the region. What’s really absurd is how you all claim to do it in the name of your gods, as commanded by your holy books.

If a truly honest brokered political solution is unacceptable to all the extremists in this mess then the fate of millions is truly in the hands of the lunatics. If the voices of moderation and reason allows the forces of extremism to overwhelm it then humanity is finished.

Now you are beginning to see the reality of the human condition. Until now you've been laboring under some illusion that we aren't all the same - that one group is somehow innocent. One thing I can assure you of, WHO is that I no longer get angry about this situation. What will be will be. I don't understand how anyone can look at the problem and think it's going to change or be made better by constantly demonizing one side or another though. The only logical outcome is that Israel, through might of arms will survive until a coalition comes against it. And before THAT happens there will need to be a calculation that either they will not use their nukes OR that for some reason those nukes don't matter so much. Just a thought.....Can you think of another example anywhere on earth anytime in history where one group of people have been so universally hated? I can't.

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Give them the South African treatment. Eventually they will cave.

+1

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Now you are beginning to see the reality of the human condition. Until now you've been laboring under some illusion that we aren't all the same - that one group is somehow innocent. One thing I can assure you of, WHO is that I no longer get angry about this situation. What will be will be. I don't understand how anyone can look at the problem and think it's going to change or be made better by constantly demonizing one side or another though. The only logical outcome is that Israel, through might of arms will survive until a coalition comes against it. And before THAT happens there will need to be a calculation that either they will not use their nukes OR that for some reason those nukes don't matter so much. Just a thought.....Can you think of another example anywhere on earth anytime in history where one group of people have been so universally hated? I can't.

People don't have to be "innocent" to have human rights. Every one of the 800,000 children in Gaza under constant state of terror and blockade is innocent. They are fast becoming the "terrorists" and "freedom fighters" of the future granted what they're putting up with. They're going to be the bureaucratic excuses of the future to keep Israel's sick policies propped up. To get more of the same, while complaining about it at the same time.

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Wow... Ex. the South African treatment will be relevant when Israel will become an apartheid state. Are you adding to the list of the your moot accusations that Israel is an apartheid state?

WHO U KIDDIN - the Jewish Autonomous Oblast was a joke. It was in fact a way to send Soviet Jews to Siberia. If it was a serious well thought plan, then the Jews would have been offered a state in the Pale of Settlement, where the vast majority of Sivet Jews lived (that would be eastern Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc.).

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Wow... Ex. the South African treatment will be relevant when Israel will become an apartheid state. Are you adding to the list of the your moot accusations that Israel is an apartheid state?

WHO U KIDDIN - the Jewish Autonomous Oblast was a joke. It was in fact a way to send Soviet Jews to Siberia. If it was a serious well thought plan, then the Jews would have been offered a state in the Pale of Settlement, where the vast majority of Sivet Jews lived (that would be eastern Poland, Ukraine, Belarus etc.).

If your settlements are a part of Israel, and you sure act like they are, then you are an apartheid State, and quite a horrid one.

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If your settlements are a part of Israel, and you sure act like they are, then you are an apartheid State, and quite a horrid one.

No we're not. We are a country in conflict with another nation. That's it.

Being that the motives of Israeli policies in the territories aren't racially motivated, or Israeli Palestinians, which are of the exact same ethnicity\nationality as non-Israeli Palestinians, would have treated the same way or harsher. They aren't.

Second, the territories exist in Area C alone, which has a Jewish majority of 87%. Only 50,000-70,000 Palestinians live there. The rest of the Palestinians, or 97% of them, live under self rule and no settlement exist in Area A and B.

How would Israel become an apartheid state?

Easily. Should Israel annex all of Gaza, West Bank, and repel citizenship from all it's Palestinian residents, and these residents will become a majority and will be kept out of Israeli politics, and different buses, different universities and different services will be given to Jews and Palestinians, then - this will be an apatheid state. None of the above happens currently in Israel and no serious, major political party has any plans to make this happen.

I mean, come on. In a country that a Palestinian high judge has tried and jailed an ex-Israeli president, how can you seriously claim apartheid?

P.S

An interesting fact is, that the is an apartheid against Palestinians right now in the middle east. Lebanon and Syria give no citizenship nor political rights to the Palestinians that have been living there for decades and for 3 generations now. They keep them away from many jobs, prevent them from accumulating any property, etc. These are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, living that way.

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We are a country in conflict with another nation. That's it.

Palestine is a nation then? Then it's time that Israel treated it as such. Get your goons and dozers, your fences and settlers out of there and respect some sovereignty already.

You'd think that your neighbors would have cleaned up your Palestinian problem for you by now, eh? That's too bad.

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Where else would Briton and the UN have offered land and a state to the Jews,except for the fact that is the land where they had originally came from?

First, they didn't offer them land, they offered them a 'home' in someone else's land. The British made it illegal for Jews to buy land in 90% of Palestine because this fact was recognised.

They offered the National Home to them for their help in WW1. Which is part of what led to their persecution in Germany up to and during WW2.

And a large part of the reason that they were offered land in Palestine, it should be noted, was because many Brits were religious Christian Zionists (Churchill was one).

Also, they looked at many places for a home, but Zionism and Zionist leaders had already been pushing for the Holy Land for decades.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Wow... Ex. the South African treatment will be relevant when Israel will become an apartheid state. Are you adding to the list of the your moot accusations that Israel is an apartheid state?

The South African treatment does not necessitate a state being 'Apartheid'. It is for rogue nations and oppressive regimes.

And there is much about Israeli treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories that does conform with Apartheid. You have different roads for Arabs and Jews, and I even read in B'tselem the other day there that there are to be different buses! One for Arabs and one for Jews (this is part of a larger policy of segregation). Many others have brought up the similarities between Israel and \South Africa, but personally, as I have stated to you before, I don't believe there is enough information on exactly what Apartheid is (as there has only been one case) to define Israel as such, and the lines are further blurred due to the fact that Israel is an illegal occupier in those territories - it is not part of their country. But no one can deny that there are many policies in the West Bank that are racially motivated.

Second, the territories exist in Area C alone, which has a Jewish majority of 87%. Only 50,000-70,000 Palestinians live there. The rest of the Palestinians, or 97% of them, live under self rule and no settlement exist in Area A and B.

This is part of why Israel think they can claim these areas. It would be like Irish invading Wales and sticking to the sparsely populated regions so that the Welsh were then outnumbered (only possible due to the Irish drawing their own lines lol), then the Irish claiming that they are majority so it is there's. I don't think this is what you were saying above, mind you, but you and others have claimed it before.

An interesting fact is, that the is an apartheid against Palestinians right now in the middle east. Lebanon and Syria give no citizenship nor political rights to the Palestinians that have been living there for decades and for 3 generations now. They keep them away from many jobs, prevent them from accumulating any property, etc. These are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, living that way.

And yet you would have us believe the nonsense that 'all Arabs were the same';'there were no cultural differences';'therefore Palestinians didn't have a right to their own country, but 2000 years removed and watered down Jews do'. Doesn't really cut it when you consider just how their 'brothers' have treated them.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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