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Yamato

Quick Introduction to Israel and Palestine

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You've got to JUST LOVE the false propaganda you read from some Israeli posters on this forum. "Most Israeli's accept Palestinian equal claims to the territory and are willing to share the land in a two state solution". :o:lol:

Netanyahu is burying the two state solution

Benjamin Netanyahu certainly has remarkable tactical acumen, even though many question his long-term strategic wisdom. In addition he is lucky: he has now found unexpected allies who will make sure that he stays in power for at least another term: Islamic Jihadists in Gaza and Sinai. By the end of his next term, the two state solution will be discarded in the dustbin of history, as he has wished from the outset.

What, then, is Netanyahu’s real strategy? I think that Ron Pundak’s recent analysis is right on target, because it corresponds both to Netanyahu’s actions and to his published statements since the 1990s. Netanyahu believes that Israel must prevent the creation of a territorially contiguous Palestinian state. He therefore continues to approve, one by one, settlements that, ever more effectively, make such territorial contiguity possible.

Hence, the second paragraph is the reason Israel recently got their a..ses kicked by their European buddies, not because of the "jihadists" as descibed in the first paragraph which is the Zionist' excuse for domination and oppression .

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You've got to JUST LOVE the false propaganda you read from some Israeli posters on this forum. "Most Israeli's accept Palestinian equal claims to the territory and are willing to share the land in a two state solution". :o:lol:

Netanyahu is burying the two state solution

Hence, the second paragraph is the reason Israel recently got their a..ses kicked by their European buddies, not because of the "jihadists" as descibed in the first paragraph which is the Zionist' excuse for domination and oppression .

You can post here as many opinion-articles as you'd like, all of the major parties in Israel have the two states solution in their manifesto. All of Israel's Prime Ministers have called for such a solution, in Hebrew, to their own people. As opposed to Palestinian leaders who keep on with their doublespeak: in english they say "oh yeah sure, we want peace", "oh yeah, we want just solution" without going into details, but to their own people, in Arabic, they keep calling for the destruction of Israel, for Israel to be flooded with millions of Palestinian "refugees", and for a Palestinian state to replace Israel, not to exist side by side with it.

That's the simple, yet ugly truth, that you seem to be completely blind to.

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Search the Likud manifesto on this forum (I've posted it before), it is expressly against any two station solution. It states that all of the land is israel's.

Keep peddling propaganda mate, even though after years it does become tiresome.

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You can post here as many opinion-articles as you'd like, all of the major parties in Israel have the two states solution in their manifesto. All of Israel's Prime Ministers have called for such a solution, in Hebrew, to their own people.

Here's the link again.

Netanyahu is burying the two state solution

Mea culpa, you must have unintentionally missed it in my previous post.

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As for manifestos, they might not be the word I was looking for. I was referring to election party platforms. All of the major parties have that in their platforms. It's an Israeli consensus, and our current, Likud Prime Minister, have gave a speech endorsing just that back in 2009, in Hebrew, meaning it was meant for us, not merely the outside world. Indeed, in the past, Likud manifesto opposed a Palestinian state. But int the past 30 years it became from a minority support among Israelis to a consensus.

Palestinian leaders, on the other, are out there calling for the murder of Jews, the destruction of Israel. Show me one Prime Minister who used such words and gave such speeches. Your world view is completely detached with reality.

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I'm sorry, this ain't not thread about Syria. Nor is it a thread about how Iranian police officers are raping women before executing them so there won't any chance they'll be virgins when they go to their imaginative after life. Nor is it a thread about how MB activists are crucifying Copts in Egypt infront of their churches.

No, it's not about Syria, Iran or any other country in the world where oppression occurs. But please feel free to open up a thread about the genocide occurring in Sudan for example. I'm pretty sure your every day "racists" of UM, which you claim are anti jewish, would be posting and commenting their disgust against Bashir for the hundreds of thousands of deaths.

The thread would be pretty lifeless but because there would be no Bashir supporter to argue against. There would be no Bashir supporter trying to disguise the situation through smoke and mirrors. There would be no Bashir supporter claiming to be victims of a world conspiracy.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil

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Could everyone keep their comments civil and respectful please.

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BRLD, as soon as you equate Israel to a genocide committing country, or like another member here equating Israel to Nazis, your argument is moot. I understand this site is a place for all sorts of conspiracy believers to come and share their thoughts, but this is the News section. So unless you have real, unbiased proof (you won't) that Israel is carrying out a genocide, that Israel is racist to the level of anywhere from Nazis to Apartheid South Africans, and you know what - that Israel treats it's Israeli Arab population the same way Jews were treated in the Soviet Union, then any of those analogues are moot and unacceptable, as much as they are pure demagogue. When I'll see an Israeli Prime Minister sounding even remotely the way Khaled Misha'al sounded in Gaza few days ago, or Israeli media portraying Palestinians remotely the way Jews are portrayed in Palestinian media, we could talk. Other than that, you're simply demonizing Israel, a democracy as opposed to all it's neighbors, including our partners for "peace" (aka the PA or Hamas).

The other option is that you are simply ignorant and completely brainwashed with Arab or pro-Palestinian propaganda.

Edited by Erikl
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BRLD, as soon as you equate Israel to a genocide committing country, or like another member here equating Israel to Nazis, your argument is moot. I understand this site is a place for all sorts of conspiracy believers to come and share their thoughts, but this is the News section. So unless you have real, unbiased proof (you won't) that Israel is carrying out a genocide, that Israel is racist to the level of anywhere from Nazis to Apartheid South Africans, and you know what - that Israel treats it's Israeli Arab population the same way Jews were treated in the Soviet Union, then any of those analogues are moot and unacceptable, as much as they are pure demagogue. When I'll see an Israeli Prime Minister sounding even remotely the way Khaled Misha'al sounded in Gaza few days ago, or Israeli media portraying Palestinians remotely the way Jews are portrayed in Palestinian media, we could talk. Other than that, you're simply demonizing Israel, a democracy as opposed to all it's neighbors, including our partners for "peace" (aka the PA or Hamas).

The other option is that you are simply ignorant and completely brainwashed with Arab or pro-Palestinian propaganda.

I was not equating Israel to nazis but the Israely government and their propaganda tools.

Second, as for the Israely parties platforms in Hebrew having a two state solutions, well all of our parties here have no tax raises and all kinds of goodies in their platforms in ENGLISH but after that everything is forgotten.

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Odas,

Yes you were using a lot of Nazi reference and you know what I'm talking about.

Second - yeah our parties here also promise no tax. But they also promise other things, that no one make them to - the Likud until the beginning of the 2000s didn't really support a Palestinian state. Today it does. And being that their voters are right-wing Israelis, there is no reason for them to promise something that used to be considered until fairly recently a salient left-wing policy, unless most right-wing Israelis have accepted the notion of two states solution. That would be political suicide. It's as if a republican will offer to make America into a welfare state. That will never happen, unless that notion will become popular among republicans.

On the other hand, no Palestinian leader as ever specifically acknowledged Israel's right to exist to their people, in Arabic. And if they did, they redrawn those words afterwards.

I also urge you to show me a single case of any Israeli leader speak the same way Khaled MIshal spoke few days ago, or a single case where Israeli media portray Palestinians with the same hateful, racist way official Palestinian media portrays Israel and Jews. The conflict is simply viewed and treated in a total different manner on each side, Israelis seek safe existence with it's neighbor in any way possible (and while today there's an overall preference and agreement among the Israeli public to the two states solution, that might change), while the Palestinians seek to see Israel gone.

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BRLD, as soon as you equate Israel to a genocide committing country, or like another member here equating Israel to Nazis, your argument is moot. I understand this site is a place for all sorts of conspiracy believers to come and share their thoughts, but this is the News section. So unless you have real, unbiased proof (you won't) that Israel is carrying out a genocide, that Israel is racist to the level of anywhere from Nazis to Apartheid South Africans, and you know what - that Israel treats it's Israeli Arab population the same way Jews were treated in the Soviet Union, then any of those analogues are moot and unacceptable, as much as they are pure demagogue. When I'll see an Israeli Prime Minister sounding even remotely the way Khaled Misha'al sounded in Gaza few days ago, or Israeli media portraying Palestinians remotely the way Jews are portrayed in Palestinian media, we could talk. Other than that, you're simply demonizing Israel, a democracy as opposed to all it's neighbors, including our partners for "peace" (aka the PA or Hamas).

The other option is that you are simply ignorant and completely brainwashed with Arab or pro-Palestinian propaganda.

Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) collective punishment on a particular ethnic group for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) crimes against humanity. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) violations of international law conventions of their time. Nazi Germany and Israel both committed war crimes. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) apartheid. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice ethnic bigotry in their policies both foreign and domestic. If Israel had the power that Nazi Germany had, there's no telling how horrible their policies would become.

The counter to these comparisons always boil down to "Israel isn't committing genocide like Nazi Germany did" as if that's the only comparison that matters, or as if our care and concern should begin at genocide.

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What Israel wanted is nothing more than what Hitler wanted, Lebensraum.

Israel might as well put up the sign ARBEIT MACH FREI over all the entrances of Gaza and Palestinian enclaves.

The only way for a real peace is to allow armaments, to Palestinians , of the same power and accuracy that the Israel has.

Let them all fight with equality.

Let them then determine their own future.

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What Israel wanted is nothing more than what Hitler wanted, Lebensraum.

Israel might as well put up the sign ARBEIT MACH FREI over all the entrances of Gaza and Palestinian enclaves.

The only way for a real peace is to allow armaments, to Palestinians , of the same power and accuracy that the Israel has.

Let them all fight with equality.

Let them then determine their own future.

And what if, in this scenario, Israel was able to utterly destroy the fighting ability of Gaza and the West Bank? What if because of these weapons you put such faith in, a couple of hundred thousand Israelis are killed or wounded but an equal number of Palestinians are also left dead or maimed? Just giving extra armaments to the Palestinians - even assuming they could be sufficiently trained up in the near term would only cause more death. That's not really what you want, is it? Unless I misread you, what you seem to want is the destruction of Israel for their perceived crimes. But does it occur to you there would still be no guarantees of the Palestinians winning? So under your scenario there could be over a million or more dead in the region, the whole world brought to the edge of war and nukes even used possibly just so Israel could be punished. It just doesn't sound logical to me; it seems based on an overwhelming hatred. Edited by and then

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You've got to JUST LOVE the false propaganda you read from some Israeli posters on this forum. "Most Israeli's accept Palestinian equal claims to the territory and are willing to share the land in a two state solution".

Israeli government =/= Israeli people. 60% of Israelis want and end to the settlement and to have them demolished. So when they say Israelis are willing to share, they are right.

I though you were above these blatantly incorrect, unresearched statements?

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Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) collective punishment on a particular ethnic group for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) crimes against humanity. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) violations of international law conventions of their time. Nazi Germany and Israel both committed war crimes. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice(d) apartheid. Nazi Germany and Israel both practice ethnic bigotry in their policies both foreign and domestic. If Israel had the power that Nazi Germany had, there's no telling how horrible their policies would become.

The counter to these comparisons always boil down to "Israel isn't committing genocide like Nazi Germany did" as if that's the only comparison that matters, or as if our care and concern should begin at genocide.

More lies.... if the Israeli actions against the Palestinians were racially motivated, then 1.5 million Israeli Palestinians with the ability to vote and be elected, study in the same universities, ride the same buses and enjoy the exactly same public services - would have been impossible.

Your entire argument is demagogue and absurd.

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More lies.... if the Israeli actions against the Palestinians were racially motivated, then 1.5 million Israeli Palestinians with the ability to vote and be elected, study in the same universities, ride the same buses and enjoy the exactly same public services - would have been impossible.

Your entire argument is demagogue and absurd.

What the hell is an "Israeli Palestinian"? How convenient that you to use possessive rhetoric on Palestinians as if you own their identities too; it matches your government's policies of theft and extortion. The only Palestinians in Israel are the ones locked up in your dungeons. Children by the hundreds, at that.

What is my "entire argument"? I don't think you know the weight or the width of that, but take a shot anyway.

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What the hell is an "Israeli Palestinian"? How convenient that you to use possessive rhetoric on Palestinians as if you own their identities too; it matches your government's policies of theft and extortion. The only Palestinians in Israel are the ones locked up in your dungeons. Children by the hundreds, at that.

What is my "entire argument"? I don't think you know the weight or the width of that, but take a shot anyway.

:wacko:

LMAO!!

Dude, seriously, read, educate yourself. You're a complete embarrassment...

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BRLD, as soon as you equate Israel to a genocide committing country, or like another member here equating Israel to Nazis, your argument is moot. I understand this site is a place for all sorts of conspiracy believers to come and share their thoughts, but this is the News section. So unless you have real, unbiased proof (you won't) that Israel is carrying out a genocide, that Israel is racist to the level of anywhere from Nazis to Apartheid South Africans, and you know what - that Israel treats it's Israeli Arab population the same way Jews were treated in the Soviet Union, then any of those analogues are moot and unacceptable, as much as they are pure demagogue. When I'll see an Israeli Prime Minister sounding even remotely the way Khaled Misha'al sounded in Gaza few days ago, or Israeli media portraying Palestinians remotely the way Jews are portrayed in Palestinian media, we could talk. Other than that, you're simply demonizing Israel, a democracy as opposed to all it's neighbors, including our partners for "peace" (aka the PA or Hamas).

The other option is that you are simply ignorant and completely brainwashed with Arab or pro-Palestinian propaganda.

:passifier: Don't spit your dummy and have a fit. I've never equated Israel to a country committing genocide from the simple fact that I have no proof of this. I can understand that probably English comes second to Yiddish or Russian or whatever is your main language, but I've got this gut feeling that you new this.

You see, you can kick, scream and cry as much as you want. You can rant, personally attack the messenger, keep on playing the victim and the racist card until you go blue. You can even try to divert attention away from the "democratic" and "just" nation of Israel by telling everyone on this social media forum to ignore what's happening and to focus our attention on other injustices happening around the world.

SIGH. The fact is nobody here is denying these injustices around the world. Nobody is naive or obtuse enough to deny the evidential truth ANYWHERE (unless your a forum Zionist living in some limbo on a mission or an analytically limited teenager with an attitude).

In your case and Israel's case you've 138-9 reasons to wake up to the proven truth. Nobody believes your countries deceitful BS anymore! The TRUE FACT is, your countries oppressing, xenophobic, right wing, nationalistic, ultra-orthodox, Zionist coalition policies is causing it to loose friends at such a pace that the end of the world on the 21st of December couldn't come quick enough for you guys. That mightn't be a problem until you have Uncle Sam in your pocket. But I wouldn't trust Uncle Sam to be faithful forever, specially if the Europeans decide to pull the plug on you.

Sorry bud, try again.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil
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138 to 9. I find it particularly telling that the thugocracy of the UN can find that kind of near unanimity in excoriating Israel, yet cannot DO anything while a murdering dictator slaughters 42 THOUSAND of his own people just a few miles away. Yet those that hate Israel see no injustice in this. They seem so eager for the lightening to fall and destroy this cause for all the miseries of humanity. I think Israel is like a mirror of all mankind. The nobility AND the foibles writ small and the truth is we don't like ourselves very much. It's going to be quite the surprise when that lightening does finally fall and we realize it's falling on ALL of us - not just Israel.

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:wacko:

LMAO!!

Dude, seriously, read, educate yourself. You're a complete embarrassment...

Okay where should I start reading about these "Israeli Palestinians".

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138 to 9. I find it particularly telling that the thugocracy of the UN can find that kind of near unanimity in excoriating Israel, yet cannot DO anything while a murdering dictator slaughters 42 THOUSAND of his own people just a few miles away. Yet those that hate Israel see no injustice in this. They seem so eager for the lightening to fall and destroy this cause for all the miseries of humanity. I think Israel is like a mirror of all mankind. The nobility AND the foibles writ small and the truth is we don't like ourselves very much. It's going to be quite the surprise when that lightening does finally fall and we realize it's falling on ALL of us - not just Israel.

Sorry "and then". I don't mind you but sometimes I really struggle to understand how a grown up, intelligent human being can get so engrossed in some of this religious hogwash.

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138 to 9. I find it particularly telling that the thugocracy of the UN can find that kind of near unanimity in excoriating Israel, yet cannot DO anything while a murdering dictator slaughters 42 THOUSAND of his own people just a few miles away. Yet those that hate Israel see no injustice in this. They seem so eager for the lightening to fall and destroy this cause for all the miseries of humanity. I think Israel is like a mirror of all mankind. The nobility AND the foibles writ small and the truth is we don't like ourselves very much. It's going to be quite the surprise when that lightening does finally fall and we realize it's falling on ALL of us - not just Israel.

Lightning. When the government no longer respects our property rights and razes our homes to the ground to let some other preferred character live there in our stead. I'd physically leave that sad excuse for a country as soon as possible and if I couldn't leave it, I would fight it. Any red-blooded American would. The only hope Israel has at keeping American support is to continue duping our people into not being able to respect the civil liberties over there that we take for granted over here.

Due to its aforementioned policies, Israel reflects the worst of mankind. *see intro video above*

Institutionalized oppression is like the 7th circle of Hell for Liberty to go to.

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Don't spit your dummy and have a fit. I've never equated Israel to a country committing genocide from the simple fact that I have no proof of this. I can understand that probably English comes second to Yiddish or Russian or whatever is your main language, but I've got this gut feeling that you new this.

Wow, I guess when you have nothing to say, you resort to infantile behaviour. Great stuff :tu:.

You have more than hinted, with the talk about Bashir and the genocide in Sudan, that the supporters of Israel are practically the same as supporters of Bashir. No one is fool here, it was quite obvious.

Some others here have equated Israel to a nazi, racist apartheid etc., state.

You see, you can kick, scream and cry as much as you want. You can rant, personally attack the messenger, keep on playing the victim and the racist card until you go blue. You can even try to divert attention away from the "democratic" and "just" nation of Israel by telling everyone on this social media forum to ignore what's happening and to focus our attention on other injustices happening around the world.

In the meantime, the only one who seem to resort to verbal violence, name calling, and bullying others here, is you, with this latest post an excellent example of just that. You rant about Israel as if it's the worse country in the world, yet besides your ranting, provide no rational explanations nor sources. Israel is wrong because Israel is wrong. that's it. Us Israeli supporters are "ranters" and we spread propaganda, according to you. You don't even take the time to refute any of the pro-Israeli claims - you simply attack the fact that Israel is being supported and start personal attacks and insults trying to cover the fact that you simply have no case what so ever. You are no different than a street bully, I'm afraid, and this the way you should be treated. At least Ex is making his case, and even odas and Yamato to a lower degree give some sort of rational explanations to their claims and posts. You, sir, give nothing to this discussion.

SIGH. The fact is nobody here is denying these injustices around the world. Nobody is naive or obtuse enough to deny the evidential truth ANYWHERE (unless your a forum Zionist living in some limbo on a mission or an analytically limited teenager with an attitude).

No, but if you actually took the time to read some of the posts here, especially of the fellas on your side of this argument, you'd see such words as, "worse tragedy in the history" and that sort of stuff. The fact is, Israel is being crucified here and judged in a way they will not judge their own countries.

In your case and Israel's case you've 138-9 reasons to wake up to the proven truth. Nobody believes your countries deceitful BS anymore! The TRUE FACT is, your countries oppressing, xenophobic, right wing, nationalistic, ultra-orthodox, Zionist coalition policies is causing it to loose friends at such a pace that the end of the world on the 21st of December couldn't come quick enough for you guys. That mightn't be a problem until you have Uncle Sam in your pocket. But I wouldn't trust Uncle Sam to be faithful forever, specially if the Europeans decide to pull the plug on you.

Wow yeah ok Mr Conspiracy here. Israel today, despite of what some here try to portray, is doing very, very well. We joined the OECD only recently. We have the highest standard of living in the Middle East. Our GDP is comparable to that of many Western European countries. Wake up, Israel isn't going anywhere.

P.S

My native tongue is Hebrew. I was born and raised in Israel. I also speak English, French and a little bit of Arabic. I wish I would know a little more Arabic. I served as an officer in the Israeli Air Force and reached the rank of Captain. I spent about two years working in the Republic of Congo in a humanitarian project to help develop the country, and I've recently returned back home to Israel, and got married. I have a BSc in Computer Science, and a huge knowledge of history which is kind of a hobby of mine (thanks to my dad). I don't keep kosher, like most Israelis. I currently work for an Israeli High-Tech company that has branches in the US, many European countries, and Nigeria. My team leader and my direct manager is an Israeli, Muslim Palestinian from Nazareth. He finished his MSc in Tel-Aviv University. My best friend from the time I worked in Africa was an Israeli Palestinian as well. He was also an engineer, graduated the Israeli Technion.

Oh and most importantly, I am a member of UM since 2004. :D

Now, remind me who the hell are you?

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You can post here as many opinion-articles as you'd like, all of the major parties in Israel have the two states solution in their manifesto. All of Israel's Prime Ministers have called for such a solution, in Hebrew, to their own people. As opposed to Palestinian leaders who keep on with their doublespeak: in english they say "oh yeah sure, we want peace", "oh yeah, we want just solution" without going into details, but to their own people, in Arabic, they keep calling for the destruction of Israel, for Israel to be flooded with millions of Palestinian "refugees", and for a Palestinian state to replace Israel, not to exist side by side with it.

That's the simple, yet ugly truth, that you seem to be completely blind to.

Her we go again, trying to deceive.

Yet, fresh off the press, Netanyahu is dumping the two state solution? LOL. You don't seem to be able to answer this with a straight face!

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Sorry "and then". I don't mind you but sometimes I really struggle to understand how a grown up, intelligent human being can get so engrossed in some of this religious hogwash.

Erm, who are you trying to fool? I didn't show here any religious ideas or opinions, because I'm not religious. The only reason for your "harsh" and aggressive post is because I hit the spot. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen :tu: .

Instead of just shooting off your belt whenever you see an Israeli or an Israeli supporter, try to actually make some sense.

Other wise, your entire argument is childish and infantile.

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