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OverSword

Military Observing US cities with drones

146 posts in this topic

so military spending means nothing as the fiscal cliff looms and you want trillions of dollars of clones to watch american citicizans. Ummm

No. I'm saying it will never come that that, due to financial reasons. The financial budget will not allow spying on anyone without some sort of reason.

I'm not saying this Could Not be abused, because it surely could, just as police dash cams, phone taps and traces, and other forms of surveilance could be misused. But fear of someone misusing a ATM camera should not require the removal of all these cameras. Millions of times more crimes are prevented by such cameras as apposed with crimes commited by them.

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Like the african bee just a few could do no harm

Grow a set before the world has to pay for the great US blunder.

What the heck. Are drones going to get loose and breed in the Wild? How is an invasive species comparable to a mechaical device?

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man your constitution has been raped front and back. Might as well say you don`t have one.

you can do better than that

If that is the worry, it was killed like 100 years ago. There are dozens of other issues that are ten... twenty times more damaging to constitutional rights.

It only takes computers to monitor emails, texts, and cell calls of everyone all the time. While the drones are person, location and time specific.

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No. I'm saying it will never come that that, due to financial reasons. The financial budget will not allow spying on anyone without some sort of reason.

I'm not saying this Could Not be abused, because it surely could, just as police dash cams, phone taps and traces, and other forms of surveilance could be misused. But fear of someone misusing a ATM camera should not require the removal of all these cameras. Millions of times more crimes are prevented by such cameras as apposed with crimes commited by them.

so you mean cameas catching crimes not potential crimes from drones that have a what set pattern and what are they looking for, car acccidients. Hey if you like like drones looking over your shoulder and your not a crook so be it. However this is what I would call a gateway drug.

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If that is the worry, it was killed like 100 years ago. There are dozens of other issues that are ten... twenty times more damaging to constitutional rights.

It only takes computers to monitor emails, texts, and cell calls of everyone all the time. While the drones are person, location and time specific.

so you agree the US constitution is now tp.

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What the heck. Are drones going to get loose and breed in the Wild? How is an invasive species comparable to a mechaical device?

no they will be let loose by a government that scares the people into thinking they are needed. So yes they will breed as you put it.

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so you mean cameas catching crimes not potential crimes from drones that have a what set pattern and what are they looking for, car acccidients. Hey if you like like drones looking over your shoulder and your not a crook so be it. However this is what I would call a gateway drug.

That is possible.

But lots of "gateway" drugs are actually useful prescriptions.

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so you agree the US constitution is now tp.

I agree that the government the US has today is not operating solely off the Constitution. They've taken a lot of powers for themselves and the population has let them. Mostly for the better in my opinion.

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That is possible.

But lots of "gateway" drugs are actually useful prescriptions.

Name one. Homeland security, the war against drugs, the cia the fbi atf not one hase done a thing but allow what they are ment to prevent.

Jumped the gun DieChecker sorry I do see us having some common ground.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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no they will be let loose by a government that scares the people into thinking they are needed. So yes they will breed as you put it.

Well that is possible. I just don't think it likely unless you subscribe to the whole Military Industrial Complex and Secret Government conspiricies. For drones to equal INSTITUTIONAL abuse, there would have to be a bunch of secret oligarchs who run the country by select manipulation of the Fed, the Military, the Education system, the Stock Markets, the President, the Congress, the Media, the Supreme Court, the Internet, and almost all the leaders of all other nations.

Edited by DieChecker

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Name one. Homeland security, the war against drugs, the cia the fbi atf not one hase done a thing but allow what they are ment to prevent.

Jumped the gun DieChecker sorry I do see us having some common ground.

I think for every Media sideshow that shows the CIA, FBI, ATF in a bad light, there are hundreds or thousands of activities that they complete and show real positive results. These things don't make the national news, but they sometimes are in local news (if they were local), if you listen.

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Well that is possible. I just don't think it likely unless you subscribe to the whole Military Industrial Complex and Secret Government conspiricies. For drones to equal abuse, there would have to be a bunch of secret oligarchs who run the country by select manipulation of the Fed, the Military, the Educaion system, the Stock Markets, the President, the Congress, the Media, the Supreme Court, the Internet, and almost all the leaders of all other nations.

the whole Military Industrial Complex

that is exactly what is bringing down the US my friend.

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the whole Military Industrial Complex

that is exactly what is bringing down the US my friend.

There you go. I personnally don't believe in the Military Industrial Complex Boogieman. I do believe that the military and their contractors hold a lot of power and that they influence the President, but I don't beleive in some Illuminati council, with a hundred year plan, controlling all of it.

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No. I'm saying it will never come that that, due to financial reasons. The financial budget will not allow spying on anyone without some sort of reason.

I'm not saying this Could Not be abused, because it surely could, just as police dash cams, phone taps and traces, and other forms of surveilance could be misused. But fear of someone misusing a ATM camera should not require the removal of all these cameras. Millions of times more crimes are prevented by such cameras as apposed with crimes commited by them.

I can't believe you don't get this. I can tolerate camara's in public, but an ATM camara isn't going to follow you home. It isn't going to be looking into your back yard. Phone taps and traces shouldn't be tolerated unless they have a warrent. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

We've been cleared, by the military, for my Pakistani, Lebanese, Greek and Arab friends etc, but who is to say they wouldn't keep an eye on me, just in case?

Edited by Michelle

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I can't believe you don't get this. I can tolerate camara's in public, but an ATM camara isn't going to follow you home. It isn't going to be looking into your back yard. Phone taps and traces shouldn't be tolerated unless they have a warrent. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

We've been cleared, by the military, for my Pakistani, Lebanese, Greek and Arab friends etc, but who is to say they wouldn't keep an eye on me, just in case?

Maybe they would and maybe that would be justified and maybe it is a waste of time. But, in reality how many people could they follow? How long would they follow you?

If they decided to follow you, it would not be at random.

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I see no problems with drones being flown in the US.

Some are for practice(with new models), others are for authorized survailance.

Besides which, I have nothing to hide, and I take meds for my paranoia. :w00t:

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Maybe they would and maybe that would be justified and maybe it is a waste of time. But, in reality how many people could they follow? How long would they follow you?

If they decided to follow you, it would not be at random.

Well, that makes me feel a whole lot better. :unsure2:

I suppose you can say that you don't have any minority friends.

That is not the point at all...how much privacy are you going to be allowed in the future? How far are you willing to sacrifice you privacy?

Maybe they would be justified? That comment, alone, scares the crap out of me. Since when did a maybe make me a suspect worthy of surveillance.

Edited by Michelle

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Well that is possible. I just don't think it likely unless you subscribe to the whole Military Industrial Complex and Secret Government conspiricies. For drones to equal INSTITUTIONAL abuse, there would have to be a bunch of secret oligarchs who run the country by select manipulation of the Fed, the Military, the Education system, the Stock Markets, the President, the Congress, the Media, the Supreme Court, the Internet, and almost all the leaders of all other nations.

Are you suggesting that Ike, the man who pointed out the existence of the MIC and coined the phrase in the process, was a conspiracy nut case?

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How is the government going to watch Joe Average 24/7? They are going to devote a multi-million dollar drone to watching some random guy in the off chance he takes a wizz in the woods, or walks nakid on his back porch, or hoping that they commit a homicide on camera?

I was talking about privacy in general, not the drone. I see no difference between flying a drone and flying a helicopter. The pilot is simply in a different location.

As to privacy, I do understand why people want privacy, even if they arent committing any crimes.

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Well, that makes me feel a whole lot better. :unsure2:

I suppose you can say that you don't have any minority friends.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything here. Are you saying there is a systemic violation of privacy rights toward ethic/racial minorities? Maybe there is in some parts of the nation, but I don't see it here in Oregon much.

Are you indirectly calling me a racist? Because I support a mobile, but very limited and expensive and specific use only security system?

That is not the point at all...how much privacy are you going to be allowed in the future? How far are you willing to sacrifice you privacy?

Isn't this the same as the Free Speech arguement, and the Gun Ownership arguement??

Should it be legal to own a M60 heavy machine gun, or a .50 cal Browning machine gun, and use it for home defense?

Should it be legal to fire off emails and voicemails about how you're going to murder government officials in their sleep?

There is an end to what is rationally allowed to Guns, Free Speech and also Privacy. I can see these taking a tiny, tiny fraction of freedom away... (Unless they get rid of helicopter police also, in which case the average citizen probably would get some privacy back.)

But I feel the gain is worth the hit. Just as taking heavy machine guns away form the population was worth the hit.

Maybe they would be justified? That comment, alone, scares the crap out of me. Since when did a maybe make me a suspect worthy of surveillance.
I say maybe, because I... being a citizen that has no idea how such justification would be approved... can't say what might be approved. That then is an issue with the agency/person issuing the approvals, not an issue with the technology.

If we go off Maybes with the technology, then we better dump computers, cars and airplanes, because all of these are dangerous.

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Are you suggesting that Ike, the man who pointed out the existence of the MIC and coined the phrase in the process, was a conspiracy nut case?

First let me quote the first appearance of the term by Ike...

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex

You know what that reads to me? "Watch out for legislators and industry lobbiest getting to friendly and pushing military projects unjustly." What I don't read there is, "Watch out for the secret society that is running the world through the US military."...

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I was talking about privacy in general, not the drone. I see no difference between flying a drone and flying a helicopter. The pilot is simply in a different location.

As to privacy, I do understand why people want privacy, even if they arent committing any crimes.

I understand it too. That is why I have a fence and curtains. I'm simply not scared that a drone is going to ruin my life on a one in ten million chance that it flys by at 500 feet and gets 2000 pixels through an upstairs window. And I recognize that I would very much like to have even a household burgler caught Before he robs or even kills someone.

If a drone, or any camera really, caught video of one of the recent shooters... here in Portland at the Mall, or the Conneticut elementary school, and alerted authorities while the fellow was still unloading his stuff from his trunk, wouldn't you rather those 20 kids or those 3 shopper were still around, rather then dead, but everyone then has fewer cameras to worry about?? Public cameras and the drones are simply doing the work of a patrol car. Would you like patrol cars to be discontinued to reduce possible privacy issues?

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We need drones to track dangerous people and organisations

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One thing I thought of last night was the old concept of Watching your neighbors property. It used to be that everyone expected their neighbor to watch out for their place, and they would watch over the neighbors place in return. I don't know about anyone else, but if someone was robbing my house, I'd hope that one of the neighbors would report it. So then, how is a neighbor supposed to know you need help, unless they constantly infringe on your privacy?

Isn't this how Community Watch is supposed to work? They patrol around and look for anything wrong. How are they supposed to do that without looking at homes and through windows to guess what is going on? Not spying or Peeking on homeowners certainly, but looking none the less. Privacy is not a solid iron wall going around your property line. It is more like a curtain that you have to make sure is shut, because if it is open, the bad is on you.

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First let me quote the first appearance of the term by Ike...

http://en.wikipedia....ustrial_complex

You know what that reads to me? "Watch out for legislators and industry lobbiest getting to friendly and pushing military projects unjustly." What I don't read there is, "Watch out for the secret society that is running the world through the US military."...

I know you are familiar with inference. Do you suppose that he might have been inferring some things that he might not be able come right out and say?

Plus, a conspiracy can and does exist WITHOUT the presence of a secret society. Which is to say that a secret society is not a necessary to a successful conspiracy, though it would certainly make things easier.

So back to my original point, I was not talking about a Secret Society at all. We agree that Ike's comments do not reference a Secret Society. I had not thought of it in those terms until you mentioned it.

I'm talking about men with common interests and goals taking effective control of the government so that their profits might be increased and sustained. And I think that could easily be inferred from Ike's address.

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