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OverSword

Military Observing US cities with drones

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I suppose the people advocating this haven't heard of the NSA warrentless surveillance controversy. I think this will be one more tool in their arsenal to invade people's privacy. They estimate that there will be 30,000 of these things in the air by 2020, from the size of a toy on up, with some being owned by private companies.

Our neighbors and I look out for each other and I don't mind that. As a matter of fact one called me last week about a strange man walking around the house. It's when strangers, for whatever reason they deem fit, decide they have a justifiable reason to snoop into what I am doing. It could be for something as simple as having friends from all over the ME or calling someone in China. People have been put on a watch list for much less than that.

If people are worried about the OP source, the Washington Times did a story on it too.

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Not really surprised..

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Orwell saw it coming, is what blows my mind. :w00t:

But it is certainly here.

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Do you suppose that he might have been inferring some things that he might not be able come right out and say?

Yes, perhaps. But the most famous use of the quote is to further the discussion of conspiricy buffs would claim there is an Illuminati or NWO council somewhere who are wearing Sith Robes and worshipping giant stone owls.

Plus, a conspiracy can and does exist WITHOUT the presence of a secret society. Which is to say that a secret society is not a necessary to a successful conspiracy, though it would certainly make things easier.

I can agree with that. Which is why I posted specifically that I did not believe in a secret society, but could see corporate collusions with the legislative and executive branches.

I'm talking about men with common interests and goals taking effective control of the government so that their profits might be increased and sustained. And I think that could easily be inferred from Ike's address.

Isn't that what all lobbists are trying to do? Gain control and influence? It is just that the military is the largest single spender in the US, and so it would naturally provide the largest target for those trying to get a bigger profit.

Not that I agree with that. I think lobbiests should be disallowed, or allowed only under specific circumstances... like testifying about their products/services to the entire congress.

Ike said we must "Guard against...". He did not say, "Fight the existing....". So, it could be deduced that he did Not think this was already a problem, but that he saw it very possibly happening.

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They estimate that there will be 30,000 of these things in the air by 2020, from the size of a toy on up, with some being owned by private companies.

There are an estimated 600,000+ private pilots (627K in 2010) in the US. That is People who own, or can rent a plane, and simply fly over your house as much as they want and take as many pics as they want.

Is that a source of worry to you also?

You like your neighbors watching out for you, but don't want the government to see anything. Is that right? Is the fear that someone corrupt in the government might get some kind of blackmail information?

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Is the fear that someone corrupt in the government might get some kind of blackmail information?

I was just about to log off and see this...

You got me! I have a money laundering business and take in stolen goods for resale on the black market. For a little side money I am a madam and constantly have hookers bringing me my cut. Don't tell anyone, but they are my drug mules too, posing as tourists when they go to Mexico to bring back the goods. They dress like everyday housewives so as to not bring on any suspicion...usually with kids in tow. My husband is a hit man but only for extremely exclusive clients. I can't say anything further without putting up red flags. Phew, I'm so glad to finally get that off my chest.

This is getting ridiculous. :rolleyes:

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But, do you agree with the reasoning behind the cameras at the ATM, the bus and the entrances to buildings? Aren't the drones just mobile platforms performing the same purpose?

Is it simply their mobile nature that is the issue? Or do you think that ATMs should be blind, buses should be blind and building entrances should be blind?

The difference is when I ride the bus or use the ATM I know there is a camera and have by utilising them given consent for public safety in the case of the bus, and for the integrity of my bank account in the case of an ATM. When I walk into a privately owned building such as the office building downtown where I work it is for the security of the businses that rent office space and the safety of the employees. In all of these cases I am aware of what's happening and have the option not to participate and the capability of opting out and am aware of why these pictures or recordings are made. They are not being made in an effort to determine wether or not I need to be watched closer.

The other problem I have is that I am dead set against the US military being used to, in any way shape or form, police the citizenry. Don't they already waste enough of my money on the stupid wars they fight away from our territory? Are these wars not enough for them ane they now feel they need to launch a preemptive war on the citizens? Isn't this what they did in East Germany & Soviet Russia? Are you really that worried about terrorists? I'm not.

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If anyone is wondering why I have the confidence to say all of that so boldly on the internet, by the way, is because it's so ludicrous! With a cursory investigation they could plainly see we have nothing to hide and a more in depth one would have them bored to tears.

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I was just about to log off and see this...

You got me! I have a money laundering business and take in stolen goods for resale on the black market. For a little side money I am a madam and constantly have hookers bringing me my cut. Don't tell anyone, but they are my drug mules too, posing as tourists when they go to Mexico to bring back the goods. They dress like everyday housewives so as to not bring on any suspicion...usually with kids in tow. My husband is a hit man but only for extremely exclusive clients. I can't say anything further without putting up red flags. Phew, I'm so glad to finally get that off my chest.

This is getting ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Well then what is the primary worry? What are they going to see through electronic eyes, and process in computer processors, and store on underground servers, that is going to ruin your privacy? SImply the fact that they have video with you existing? I simply want to know what is so horrible about having a drone not purposefully watch you like 1/1000th of your life, while catching bad guys?

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The difference is when I ride the bus or use the ATM I know there is a camera and have by utilising them given consent for public safety in the case of the bus, and for the integrity of my bank account in the case of an ATM. When I walk into a privately owned building such as the office building downtown where I work it is for the security of the businses that rent office space and the safety of the employees. In all of these cases I am aware of what's happening and have the option not to participate and the capability of opting out and am aware of why these pictures or recordings are made. They are not being made in an effort to determine wether or not I need to be watched closer.

That then, I can understand. I can't see the problem with it, but I can recognize and honor the fact you are not giving consent.

The other problem I have is that I am dead set against the US military being used to, in any way shape or form, police the citizenry. Don't they already waste enough of my money on the stupid wars they fight away from our territory? Are these wars not enough for them ane they now feel they need to launch a preemptive war on the citizens? Isn't this what they did in East Germany & Soviet Russia? Are you really that worried about terrorists? I'm not.

Well. I could agree that the military should not be used in the civilian world, but that has not been the case for like 99% of history. Historically the military was the police, or at least they performed police duties much of the time.

Personally, I'd like having soldiers out patrolling our streets. We're paying them anyway, so then we could cut back on the number of police we employ, and my local, and state taxes might go down as a result. I was in the US Army for 4 years back in the 1980s, and I spent literally weeks sitting around just collecting a paycheck.

I think the Threat of a War on Civilians by the military is right up there with the Faked Moon Landings as far as Conspiricy Theories go. We don't have a professional soldier caste in the US, everyone is a vollinteer and everyone expects to go back to civlian life sooner or later. They would not wage war on their own nation that they planned on going back to and going to college or settling down to a good middle class job. Also, a high percentage of soldiers get Stress Disorders from firing on and fighting against people they have Nothing in common with and who are simply moving targets at the other end of a bullet. But... the CT people would tell us that these same people would have no trouble cutting down people of their own culture, language and religions. Which is total bunk. If the Arab Spring showed us anything, it is that many soldiers will quite quickly stop shooting at their own people, and how much more so for American soldiers shooting at unarmed American civilians?

When a terrorist attempts to blow up a Christmas Tree lighting in the Town Center of your town, with thousands of people there, and the car bomb situated to kill hundreds... and your relatives and loved ones down there celebrating in peace just before someone tries to kill them all. Then maybe you'll think it is not so bad an idea.

Edited by DieChecker
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Well then what is the primary worry? What are they going to see through electronic eyes, and process in computer processors, and store on underground servers, that is going to ruin your privacy? SImply the fact that they have video with you existing? I simply want to know what is so horrible about having a drone not purposefully watch you like 1/1000th of your life, while catching bad guys?

Personal preference. That is the end of any further conversation on this topic and if it isn't good enough for you so be it.

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The army are just people, we need secure, strong and reliable security. If you are that worried then don't come on a computer for a week or actually do something!! instead of ranting and worrying or talk to someone.

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We should ask Iran how there knocking them drones down.

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The difference is when I ride the bus or use the ATM I know there is a camera and have by utilising them given consent for public safety in the case of the bus, and for the integrity of my bank account in the case of an ATM. When I walk into a privately owned building such as the office building downtown where I work it is for the security of the businses that rent office space and the safety of the employees. In all of these cases I am aware of what's happening and have the option not to participate and the capability of opting out and am aware of why these pictures or recordings are made. They are not being made in an effort to determine wether or not I need to be watched closer.

The other problem I have is that I am dead set against the US military being used to, in any way shape or form, police the citizenry. Don't they already waste enough of my money on the stupid wars they fight away from our territory? Are these wars not enough for them ane they now feel they need to launch a preemptive war on the citizens? Isn't this what they did in East Germany & Soviet Russia? Are you really that worried about terrorists? I'm not.

Yes, and what you say is the spirit behind that old worthy statute, Posse Comitatus Act. Sadly, PCA was sacrificed at the altar of the War On Drugs, same way Habeas Corpus was sacrificed at altar of War On Terror.

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The Constitution prevents the housing of soldiers in people's homes and from illegal military searches, but there in no mention that the military should not be used in civil matters.

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The Constitution prevents the housing of soldiers in people's homes and from illegal military searches, but there in no mention that the military should not be used in civil matters.

Name calling is not allowed so..............yeah.

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If someone can catch one Ive got some tradeables Im willing to part with for one

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If someone can catch one Ive got some tradeables Im willing to part with for one

What if it has slight SAM damage?

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Id expect it too have some damage. But those damn Iranians seem to get em intact. They say they do it through electronics.

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Name calling is not allowed so..............yeah.

unlike you, you support violence

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The Constitution prevents the housing of soldiers in people's homes and from illegal military searches, but there in no mention that the military should not be used in civil matters.

Put Posse Comitatus Act of like 1870 or so into your Google Machine, and inform yourself of what it prohibited.

I know you're busy checking dies, but if you make inaccurate claims, you lose some measure of credibility. :-*

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Put Posse Comitatus Act of like 1870 or so into your Google Machine, and inform yourself of what it prohibited.

I know you're busy checking dies, but if you make inaccurate claims, you lose some measure of credibility. :-*

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Here is what I found....

Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any authority to do so must exist with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress.{Federalist 29 (Hamilton, 1788)} In this way, most use of the Army and the Air Force at the direction of the President does not offend the statute, even though it may be problematic for political reasons.

The statute only addresses the US Army and, since 1956, the US Air Force. It does not refer to, and thus does not restrict or apply to, the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor (in its federal capacity, the National Guard forms part of the Army or Air Force of the United States).

The President may employ the armed forces... to... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition... the President determines that... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such... a condition... so hinders the execution of the laws... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

http://en.wikipedia....e_Comitatus_Act

That limits the police powers of the Army and Air Force some, but not in any real way. All it would take is Congressional Legislation, or oversight by the President and we'd have soldier patrolling the streets of EveryTown USA.

Edited by DieChecker

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The other problem I have is that I am dead set against the US military being used to, in any way shape or form, police the citizenry. Don't they already waste enough of my money on the stupid wars they fight away from our territory? Are these wars not enough for them ane they now feel they need to launch a preemptive war on the citizens? Isn't this what they did in East Germany & Soviet Russia? Are you really that worried about terrorists? I'm not

Yes they paid for it on our dime while become excessively rich at the same time. Thats not a bad racket they got going. Al Capone would be impressed.

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oh dear that is sad, people not wanting police...what ere you a bloody gang member or something!? don't like leave America!

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don't like leave America!

Are you kidding me? They have just as much right to stay in America and shape the country to their image as you do. Since when did the US become so full of people like you? "Dont like it then leave?" Thats not a solution to anything.

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