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OverSword

Military Observing US cities with drones

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It is not a excuse if it is true. Where is the military going to get tens of trillions to spy on hundreds of thousands of people? And why would they spy on those totally undeserving people?

Drones = Military Takeover = Total Conspiricy Theory.

Don't be a dumb-ass. The military has a black budget in the billions that is spent on things that are not accounted for.
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I'm not sure what you are getting at. Here is what I found....

http://en.wikipedia....e_Comitatus_Act

That limits the police powers of the Army and Air Force some, but not in any real way. All it would take is Congressional Legislation, or oversight by the President and we'd have soldier patrolling the streets of EveryTown USA.

I suspected that a Wikipedia reference would be your answer. :innocent: Not that it's a bad thing, but it's so easily edited that everything there seems to have a certain spin to it.

The Act was passed post Civil War, and it was partially in response to voting suppression and others maltreatment of the former slaves. It prohibited federal troops from being involved in any way with the enforcement of civilian law. A good sound decision, considering that waging war is not the same as domestic law enforcement.

When it was first weakened, Reagan was President. The reason was the war on drugs, and even Cap Weinberger objected to PC being watered down. He thought it was wrong to take combat qualified Cold War Warriors and have them chasing around the ocean looking for boats carrying bales and hidden suitcases. Made us look like a Third World Country, he said, and he was right.

So while you may be technically correct that the Constitution does not prohibit the military from enforcing civilian law, NEITHER does it authorize such activity. And legitimate and good statutory law prohibits it.

But we became a third world country anyway, in so many ways.

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Are you kidding me? They have just as much right to stay in America and shape the country to their image as you do. Since when did the US become so full of people like you? "Dont like it then leave?" Thats not a solution to anything.

Example if you eating somthing you don't like, are you going to eat it again?

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Example if you eating somthing you don't like, are you going to eat it again?

If I dont like what Im eating, I go make something I like.

Whats the point of having a democracy when "those who dont like it should just leave"?

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Don't be a dumb-ass. The military has a black budget in the billions that is spent on things that are not accounted for.

So the government is going to drop all its black ops projects to focus on buying drones to watch Joe Average? I doubt it.

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I suspected that a Wikipedia reference would be your answer. :innocent: Not that it's a bad thing, but it's so easily edited that everything there seems to have a certain spin to it.

The Act was passed post Civil War, and it was partially in response to voting suppression and others maltreatment of the former slaves. It prohibited federal troops from being involved in any way with the enforcement of civilian law. A good sound decision, considering that waging war is not the same as domestic law enforcement.

When it was first weakened, Reagan was President. The reason was the war on drugs, and even Cap Weinberger objected to PC being watered down. He thought it was wrong to take combat qualified Cold War Warriors and have them chasing around the ocean looking for boats carrying bales and hidden suitcases. Made us look like a Third World Country, he said, and he was right.

So while you may be technically correct that the Constitution does not prohibit the military from enforcing civilian law, NEITHER does it authorize such activity. And legitimate and good statutory law prohibits it.

But we became a third world country anyway, in so many ways.

Still giving soldiers police powers is only a Congressional vote away. Maybe only temporarily, but sometimes temporary ends up being permanent...

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Anything is just one vote away, I agree.

The reality is that all sorts of things happen WITHOUT a vote in congress.

Such as, unlimited assassinations without trials, all over the world.

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So the government is going to drop all its black ops projects to focus on buying drones to watch Joe Average? I doubt it.

While I dont believe its possible to cheaply track every single person in a country at this point in time, I do believe that that day is coming closer and closer. As such, I think your argument is becoming quickly invalid. With the new face recognition software being developed, you could foreseeably identify every single person on camera and keep a computer log of their locations without it being costly to do so. If there are cameras everywhere, then that would equate to being watched at all times.

Its not as unachievable as you make it sound.

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Anything is just one vote away, I agree.

The reality is that all sorts of things happen WITHOUT a vote in congress.

Such as, unlimited assassinations without trials, all over the world.

Well, you have a point there.....

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While I dont believe its possible to cheaply track every single person in a country at this point in time, I do believe that that day is coming closer and closer. As such, I think your argument is becoming quickly invalid. With the new face recognition software being developed, you could foreseeably identify every single person on camera and keep a computer log of their locations without it being costly to do so. If there are cameras everywhere, then that would equate to being watched at all times.

Its not as unachievable as you make it sound.

I can agree with your assessment, but it will likely be mounted cameras that will do most of the spying on people. Even if 99% of urban people are tracked, there would need to be hundreds of thousands of drones to track any appreciable number of people living in rural areas. The expense versus gain would be enormous.

I will agree it is possible, I just think it terribly unlikely.

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Learning to avoid detection by these cameras/drones as much as possible might be a worthwhile skill to learn. That is if your worried about it.

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Anyway. I say... So what? These are just another way of survillance, just as a helicoper, or street cameras are. I don't see a problem with it. I think these are Fantastic for patrolling the borders and the coastlines. Fan-freaking-tastic....

Except this isn't about borders and coastlines.

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/embedviz?viz=MAP&q=select+col2+from+1WuTyH62PmUF97oxo6IreT1BL_aw9HJN5pocwmwg&h=false&lat=44.08758502824518&lng=-85.5615234375&z=4&t=1&l=col2&y=1&tmplt=2

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So the government is going to drop all its black ops projects to focus on buying drones to watch Joe Average? I doubt it.

When you can guarantee all of the black budget is used for scientific research you can say that. Since this money doesn't have to be accounted for you have no idea what percentage ends up in someones off shore bank account, pays off drug dealers etc. It's good that you are so trusting, it indicates that you are probably a very honest person. Edited by OverSword
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Learning to avoid detection by these cameras/drones as much as possible might be a worthwhile skill to learn. That is if your worried about it.

Makes you look like a terrorist though

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It doesn't take much for you Richard, to "see" a terrorist. :no:

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Except this isn't about borders and coastlines.

https://www.google.c...ol2&y=1&tmplt=2

Yeah. I've seen that before. Military posts... so? Do we need to move all military bases to the borders of the nation?

What I've seen and heard suggests that they main use of the drones is Police activities and patrolling the borders. Once someone can show even one wrongful survailance of a US National civilian, I'd be more then happy to support that they get restrained better, or packed up for more mundane forms of tracking. I'm not even saying it is not going to happen. I'm simply saying there is no military/government/police conspiricy to remove everyones Privacy and spy on everyone all the time at will.

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Yeah. I've seen that before. Military posts... so? Do we need to move all military bases to the borders of the nation?

What I've seen and heard suggests that they main use of the drones is Police activities and patrolling the borders. Once someone can show even one wrongful survailance of a US National civilian, I'd be more then happy to support that they get restrained better, or packed up for more mundane forms of tracking. I'm not even saying it is not going to happen. I'm simply saying there is no military/government/police conspiricy to remove everyones Privacy and spy on everyone all the time at will.

The fact that it is possible to spy on everyone all the time at will means that the right of privacy is GONE.

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Yeah. I've seen that before. Military posts... so? Do we need to move all military bases to the borders of the nation?

What I've seen and heard suggests that they main use of the drones is Police activities and patrolling the borders. Once someone can show even one wrongful survailance of a US National civilian, I'd be more then happy to support that they get restrained better, or packed up for more mundane forms of tracking. I'm not even saying it is not going to happen. I'm simply saying there is no military/government/police conspiricy to remove everyones Privacy and spy on everyone all the time at will.

So, no. That was a map of domestic drone flights.

Why does it have to be stretched out to the impossible extreme of "everybody all the time" before we start to care about our privacy? I don't want government drones snooping on me, EVER. That is "wrongful" already.

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So, no. That was a map of domestic drone flights.

Why does it have to be stretched out to the impossible extreme of "everybody all the time" before we start to care about our privacy? I don't want government drones snooping on me, EVER. That is "wrongful" already.

Well what if you ARE a criminal? Or an illegal? Or a foreigner who is buying bomb materials online? Should we spy on those people? How are we going to be able to spy on them and Not accidentally spy on innocent civilians?

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Well what if you ARE a criminal? Or an illegal? Or a foreigner who is buying bomb materials online? Should we spy on those people? How are we going to be able to spy on them and Not accidentally spy on innocent civilians?

So wait, now it doesn't matter that the drones weren't flying on our borders and coastlines but all over mainland USA?

What legal jurisdiction does the USG have to stop a foreigner from buying bomb materials online? Drones are monitoring our online activity now? Drones can somehow stop an online purchase by a foreigner? What does that have to do with this? And plenty of bomb making materials are legal, to buy online or offline.

If our federal government can't control our borders, then it might feel the need to spy on our people within them. Yet government's failure is no reason to surrender our freedoms to it. 9/11 is a good case in point. Even more than 10 years after that government-induced tragedy, our flaky and ineffective government is still unwilling to racially profile because it's scared someone's diapers might get wet over it. Too many facts over the years suggest to me that our government isn't capable of keeping us safe but more than willing to keep us in jeopardy.

Privacy is in such short supply these days. Let's protect what little we have left. I'd rather make a Type 1 Error (protect liberty and risk not preventing a crime you can think up) than a Type 2 Error (turning into a police state and possibly preventing a crime that you can think up).

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Well what if you ARE a criminal? Or an illegal? Or a foreigner who is buying bomb materials online? Should we spy on those people? How are we going to be able to spy on them and Not accidentally spy on innocent civilians?

That's rather the point--spying on certain individuals was accomplished by way of FISA before the Unpatriot Act. The government has ALREADY gathered all sorts of communications and "papers" from innocents, so that the WOT might be prosecuted.

The WOT is a fraud, and violating constitutional provisions under fraud is a crime.

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