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Thousands gather in Gaza for Hamas rally

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If the man's speech wasn't simply just rhetoric designed to rally the supporters present, if he does actually believe what he states about "into the sea", etc, then this could be a massive step back for Hamas.

Possibly he's just tired, after stating for years that Hamas and the Palestinians would settle on the internationally recognised '67 borders only to be completely ignored by Israel and the mirage that is the peace process and all the while the Gaza Strip is still being strangled.

If he does believe this then it is true that Hamas has regressed to their former selves.

Tens of thousands of people have gathered to attend a rally in the Gaza Strip to mark the 25th anniversary of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas.

Hamas political leader Khaled Meshaal gave a fiery speech during his first ever visit to the territory.

He said he would never recognise Israel, and insisted Palestinians would never cede any part of their land.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20649583

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The issue with Hamas, Hizballah and the sort that is the most disheartening isn't that they use such language but that they are received with such fervor. I think they are like pols in the West - they may believe their rhetoric but they are only saying what their constituents want to hear.

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Yet more shoddy M-E reporting from the BBC. The quote I used: "into the sea" (which I remembered wasn't actually stated in the article by the Hamas leader, but by an Al Quds man wearing a mask), has been completely removed from the BBC article (and was nowhere to be found elsewhere on the internet).

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Yet more shoddy M-E reporting from the BBC. The quote I used: "into the sea" (which I remembered wasn't actually stated in the article by the Hamas leader, but by an Al Quds man wearing a mask), has been completely removed from the BBC article (and was nowhere to be found elsewhere on the internet).

From NY Times:

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.c...anted=1&_r=0

Meshal restated the view that has always been the cord belief of Hamas. This dangerous rhetoric only damages the PLO efforts at moderation and a two state solution and acceptance by the world community. But perhaps Meshal is truly working for the people he represents.

From UPI:

But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN
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Thanks.

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From NY Times:

His voice rising to a shout, Mr. Meshal said: “Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on any inch of the land.” He vowed that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants would one day return to their original homes in what is now Israel.

http://www.nytimes.c......anted=1&_r=0

Meshal restated the view that has always been the cord belief of Hamas. This dangerous rhetoric only damages the PLO efforts at moderation and a two state solution and acceptance by the world community. But perhaps Meshal is truly working for the people he represents.

From UPI:

But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/B.../#ixzz2EUM7Io8q

I love the way you guys think. Even when the snake admits being a snake you still blame the one's being bitten. Priceless.

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I love the way you guys think. Even when the snake admits being a snake you still blame the one's being bitten. Priceless.

How do you work that out?

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If the man's speech wasn't simply just rhetoric designed to rally the supporters present, if he does actually believe what he states about "into the sea", etc, then this could be a massive step back for Hamas.

Possibly he's just tired, after stating for years that Hamas and the Palestinians would settle on the internationally recognised '67 borders only to be completely ignored by Israel and the mirage that is the peace process and all the while the Gaza Strip is still being strangled.

If he does believe this then it is true that Hamas has regressed to their former selves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-20649583

LMAO!

Regressed?

Man, you are living in a dream world.

We used to believe what the PLO and Hamas said in English too, until we discovered it's the exact opposite of what they're saying to their own people and in what they truly believe.

Oh well, if the Soviets had them, I guess Hamas can have them also.

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Can`nt help but think these are the real people of Egypt who want freedoms from a dictatorships and religous domimations, looked how many women faces are in the crowds,just like in Iran`s protests

Edited by docyabut2

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LMAO!

Regressed?

Man, you are living in a dream world.

We used to believe what the PLO and Hamas said in English too, until we discovered it's the exact opposite of what they're saying to their own people and in what they truly believe.

Oh well, if the Soviets had them, I guess Hamas can have them also.

I based my opinions on Hamas' actions and proclamations. Renouncing suicide bombings in population centres was a massive step forward, and they have repeatedly stated that they would settle on the '67 borders with a just resolution to the refugee crisis, which was all completely ignored by Israel.

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I based my opinions on Hamas' actions and proclamations. Renouncing suicide bombings in population centres was a massive step forward, and they have repeatedly stated that they would settle on the '67 borders with a just resolution to the refugee crisis, which was all completely ignored by Israel.

No, what they claimed was that they would settle for a '67 border truce, until they would be capable to destroy Israel in the future. Also, just resolution to the refugee crisis - you are aware what that means in the eyes of the Palestinians, right?

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How do you work that out?

The article assumes Israel is to blame for anything Hamas might ever do just because it (according to this article) supported Hamas against Fatah at one time.

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No, what they claimed was that they would settle for a '67 border truce, until they would be capable to destroy Israel in the future. Also, just resolution to the refugee crisis - you are aware what that means in the eyes of the Palestinians, right?

It means different things to different people.

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It means different things to different people.

]Hamas has repeatedly stated this. They will NEVER have peace - only a truce until they can prevail. And I have many times mentioned that "just resolution to the refugee crisis" is code for right of return. Right of return is the end of any State of Jewish character. With right of return Israel becomes just another Muslim country in the region - where Jews would live as second class citizens at best. Edited by and then

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]Hamas has repeatedly stated this. They will NEVER have peace - only a truce until they can prevail. And I have many times mentioned that "just resolution to the refugee crisis" is code for right of return. Right of return is the end of any State of Jewish character. With right of return Israel becomes just another Muslim country in the region - where Jews would live as second class citizens at best.

So has the Israeli government and many Israeli people but it does not mean there are not factions and elements within both organisations that do want peace.

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Even if it is rhetoric, Ex, there are probably those high up in Hamas who genuinely believe the content of that speech. You don't hear anything like that from Fatah now do you? Groups like Hamas are detrimental to the peace process in the region. Hence why the world chose to recognise the PNA. Because they don't threaten anyone.

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I agree with all you say except the part about peace process.

I don't believe there is one. Not truly.

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Fatah's relative superiority to Hamas/MB/Hezbollah isn't preventing Fatah territory from being gobbled up or their people being treated like cattle. As if, if the region could only work just like the West Bank, then there could be peace? How dare I suggest Palestinians fight for their freedom?

Puleez, Zion.

Fighting against tyranny and oppression is the best justification for war that ever existed.

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So has the Israeli government and many Israeli people but it does not mean there are not factions and elements within both organisations that do want peace.

This is true but in Israel those people do not vote with a gun. And they are a fringe in the politics of the nation. Their opposites in Hamas DO vote with guns and it doesn't take many votes to have a "super majority". My point is that as long as violent men can stop any chance of peace and the world keeps blindly supporting them then the result can hardly be expected to be peaceful. And if Israel acceded ONLY to the issue of right of return then the State would cease to exist as anything more than just another Islamic State. Unless of course Israel actually DID become Apartheid in reality. Netanyahu made it very clear in his address before the US congress that right of return for refugees was NEVER going to happen.
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IMO, Israel should annex Judea and Samaria (aka West Bank), and in a gradual process, give full citizenship to all it's inhabitants. It might take few years, or decades, but eventually that's the only sane solution.

Any Palestinian state that shall be created in the West Bank will be taken over by MB (in it's Palestinian branch - aka Hamas) and will result in ballistic ranging of Israel's economic center, thus will bring about the end of Israel as a normal western country and will probably result in a much worse conflict.

It has nothing to do with the Palestinians, it's the current trend of Islamization in the region. Abbas represents the old nationalistic, pan-Arabist regimes, while Hamas represents Islamism, which is on the rise in the region.

Thus, any retreat on Israel's behalf will result in the growth in popularity of Hamas and other extremists on the Palestinian side.

As an Israeli, with an Israeli Palestinian for a boss in the company I work for, I can say that the only Arab population Jews seem to have peace with are the Israeli ones. Thus the real end of this conflict is the annexation and naturalization of the Arab population in the West Bank and the historical homeland of Jews - Judea.

The Gaza Strip is already lost to Islamic radicalism and should either stay in it's Somalia-like situtation, or be taken under the patronage of it's big brother - MB-rulled Egypt.

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IMO, Israel should annex Judea and Samaria (aka West Bank), and in a gradual process, give full citizenship to all it's inhabitants. It might take few years, or decades, but eventually that's the only sane solution.

Any Palestinian state that shall be created in the West Bank will be taken over by MB (in it's Palestinian branch - aka Hamas) and will result in ballistic ranging of Israel's economic center, thus will bring about the end of Israel as a normal western country and will probably result in a much worse conflict.

It has nothing to do with the Palestinians, it's the current trend of Islamization in the region. Abbas represents the old nationalistic, pan-Arabist regimes, while Hamas represents Islamism, which is on the rise in the region.

Thus, any retreat on Israel's behalf will result in the growth in popularity of Hamas and other extremists on the Palestinian side.

As an Israeli, with an Israeli Palestinian for a boss in the company I work for, I can say that the only Arab population Jews seem to have peace with are the Israeli ones. Thus the real end of this conflict is the annexation and naturalization of the Arab population in the West Bank and the historical homeland of Jews - Judea.

The Gaza Strip is already lost to Islamic radicalism and should either stay in it's Somalia-like situtation, or be taken under the patronage of it's big brother - MB-rulled Egypt.

But wouldn't the numbers of new non Jewish residents tip the balance demographically? And I imagine even the MB would be loathe to take on caring for the welfare State that is Gaza. The thugs of Hamas will never have a shortage of people willing to supply guns and rockets but the drain of feeding the people will be left to the West.

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But wouldn't the numbers of new non Jewish residents tip the balance demographically?

Not quite.

First of all, I know many in Israel, especially on the left, like to scare us of the demographic bomb.

Even some on the right have gave in to such bigotry.

While indeed, should Jews become a minority in their country with a hostile Palestinian majority, a genocide will occur, I think a Jewish majority with a big Palestinian minority can thrive quite peacefully.

Ofcourse it cannot happen over night, and as has been done in the case of Nazi Germany, de-Jihadization will have to take place after decades of systematic hateful progpaganda by the PA regime, but even after annexation (solely of the West Bank), Jews still today make up a majority with more than 60%. Demographic trends seem to point out that Jewish and Muslim natural growth are the same, with Muslim in the more developed West Bank have lower natural growth and Jews' average natural growth in Israel is rising.

But regardless of it all, Israel is also a democracy, not only a Jewish-majority state. And I believe this is the democratic, honest thing to do, and the only solution to this long, on going conflict.

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I agree with all you say except the part about peace process.

I don't believe there is one. Not truly.

There won't be until Hamas realises that keeping its military brigades under control and actually doing something productive with Israel. Yes, certain other members claim that Fatah's territory is being gobbled up, but the latest rounds of new settlements in East Jerusalem were mere punishment for the world's recognition of them as a state. Bibi's days as the helmsman of Israel are numbered.

Edited by MichaelW

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