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Big Bad Voodoo

Dorians were Sea people?

9 posts in this topic

Sadly I triedto find existing thread about Sea people yet I was surprised that theres none.

I go to page 10 then gave up. If Mods know better they can freely merged them.

I guess this small of my conclusion doesnt worth a new thread but I didnt know where to put it.

I notice something. Around 2900 BC early dynastic period of Egypt start somehow about same time in Mesopotamia as well as first level of Troy was built as well as pre-Minoans on Crete emrged.

From 2600-2181 in Egypt was old Kingdom and Akkadian empire around 2334-2193 BC.

From 2040 to 1780 BC Middle kingdom in Egypt and in Troy was built fifth level, in Hammurabi ruled in Mesopotamia. Somehow they developed about same rate.

In 1595 Hittites sacked Babylon and appears on scene and add to race. Mitanni also emrged soon. (I didn’t comparing Indus, China, Peru and Mesoamerica though). In 1450 Myceneans were on Crete and Amenhotep II ruled in Egypt. Anyway, so far so good.

Then around 1380 Suppiluluima I ruled over Hittites, 1348 Tutankhamun ruled in Egypt and suddenly 1380 BC we have destruction of Knossos palace. Now how destroy it? Who developed paralley with all them that could destroy Minoans there? Sea people?

In 1274 Battle of Qadesh happened so we know that Egyptians and Hittites have full hands of war and some one suddenly destroy Troy about 1260 BC. Who was it? Sea people? About same time 1300-1200 golden age of Mycenea.

1230 BC Egyptians fight Sea people and soon starting with 1200 BC widespread of Mycenean citadels, decline of Hittites.

Around 1191 BC Ramses III won over Sea people, 1180 Hittites abandoned Hattusha (Mushki), 1193 Trojan war.

1100 BC Dorian invasion in Greece. Dorians move from Crete? From Crete to Africa is nothing so is it possible that they came from Africa? Just a thought.

Then Assyrians ruled over all again mostly till Medes and Babylonians sack Assyrian Nineveh.

Then Greeks and Persians emerged at their best.

So who destroy Minoans in 1380 BC, Troy 1260 BC, Egyptians 1230 BC, 1200 BC Myceneans, 1180 BC Hittites? Sea people. And soon we have Dorian invasion. So my guess is Dorians.

Thoughts.

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1230 BC Egyptians fight Sea people and soon starting with 1200 BC widespread of Mycenean citadels, decline of Hittites.

Around 1191 BC Ramses III won over Sea people, 1180 Hittites abandoned Hattusha (Mushki),

Suggests to me that the Egyptians were at war with the Hittites, and winning.

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I'm always perplexed over this one L.

They were in Crete after the Trojan War and had plumes on their helmets, I see the same helmets in much Hittite art, so seem to think they have some Hittite connection.

I also think the Bronze Age collapse may have been part of a fallout from the end of the Hittite culture, who may have financed Greece at this time.

But on the Libya side, I see the name of Mt Atlas is Douris in the native language and this t me lends the name to Dorians. Dourians, Dorians would have been Atlanteans, living in the shadow of Mt Atlas, bringing this mythical religious belief with them. Into Crete yes, but what of the Hittite connection I'm sure I see. Could be that Dorians (Western Libyans) were actually indigenous to the lower Russian Steppes, but also were in Hittite territory, which expanded into Crete and so therefore also were in the area of Mt Atlas, Douris means tough, hard, enduring, which certainly the Dorians were that.

Also to this, I think Atlanteans are Doric because when Plato wrote his dialogues, the war with Doric states and Persian were going on. Dorians and Persians were allies and ancient relatives against Athens.

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Hi Puzzler!

Here is my quote

What Abe told. Plus crucial fact. Thera eruption didnt wiped out Minoan civilizations. Only Akrotiri site. Elsewhere Minoans continued to live on.

Minoans probably fell due fall of Hittites. (although no one know for sure because as it usualy as it be there are more complex factors in decline period)

Crete was nothing comparing to Egypt and Hittites. And when Hittites declined and Crete declined imo due econmoic/trade connections.

Im not aware of plumes on Hittite art.

I read once that Strabo said that natives called Mt.Atlas - Douris. But I never conclude what you just did. It could be true.

Also it is possible that Dorians came from steppe. I always remember Vandals. Who from East Europe came to Spain then to North Africa then backstab their old enemy Rome.

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Hi Puzzler!

Here is my quote

Crete was nothing comparing to Egypt and Hittites. And when Hittites declined and Crete declined imo due econmoic/trade connections.

Im not aware of plumes on Hittite art.

I read once that Strabo said that natives called Mt.Atlas - Douris. But I never conclude what you just did. It could be true.

Also it is possible that Dorians came from steppe. I always remember Vandals. Who from East Europe came to Spain then to North Africa then backstab their old enemy Rome.

Hi L, Yes, I'd say Crete suffered that fate too. Yes, nothing is to say the Dorians had not originally come from steppes and inhabited North Africa as well as other areas.

Hard to find much on the internet with HIttite helmets, with plumes, or Greek style but this horse in this pic has the similar headgear word by later Greeks, this is what I see on the men, maybe not plumed but def. a style of Doric headgear. I have pictures in a book, I will scan them and show tomorrow, too late now.

Note also on this picture the pattern at the bottom, very Cretan style...

hitt%20-%20three%20man%20chariot.jpg

Interesting topic L, I have more time now to contribute to some threads and I find this one certainly interesting, I'll do some more investigating on the Sea People connection.

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Here's another picture of Neo-Hittites from the net...

226432695_mUiux-M.jpg

http://paulsmit.smugmug.com/Features/Asia/Eastern-Turkey/6705709_HxHMfj/226432695_mUiux#!i=226432695&k=mUiux

The helmets look like an early type of Greek and Doric helmet, I'm not sure exactly what constitutes 'plumes' as described by Homer, if he ever saw them, but to me, I see a commonality in the style of the Hittite soldier and early Greek ones, spear and shield also.

220px-Ancient_Greece_hoplite_with_his_hoplon_and_dory.jpg

Herodotus says they originate in Macedonia/Thessaly area - and moved finally into the Peloponnese. Thessaly is a very old cultural area, Sesklo around 6000BC, I found coins with men jumping over bulls from Thessaly on the net once, seeing a connection with Crete in more ways than one.

Thessaly to Crete might have been a stepping stone, in and out as far away as Libya even, all connecting, all prior to 1700BC Thera eruption.

220px-Helmed_Hoplite_Sparta.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorians

I'm not exactly sure they are the Sea People though.

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Suggests to me that the Egyptians were at war with the Hittites, and winning.

Hittites in my opinion won in battle of Qadesh. Decline of Hittites areas usualy is complex factors but as Im aware that Assyrians played big role in their decline.

Also Egypt-Hittite conflict doesnt explain why we have widespread of ruined Mycenean citadels at that time.

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I'm not exactly sure they are the Sea People though.

We have sudden Dorian invasion in history. And before their invasion we have Minoans destroyed by anonymus in 1380 BC, Troy destroyed by anonymus in 1260 BC, Egyptians clash with Sea people in 1230 BC, 1200 BC Myceneans destroyed by anonymus, 1180 BC Hittites abandoned their capital.

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