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GreenmansGod

Goddess instead of God

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For me, it is all about balance. To think of god as a single entity and masculine is a bit lopsided. I like the balance of the goddess to and it gives me a center. We all have both gender traits in our philological make up. IMO, I think the female makes for a calming energy while the male has a more active energy. Almost the difference between shopping and hunting. Shopping is a never ending activity of searching. The hunt has a definite beginning and end.

I like the balance, too, that a goddess & her male consort, both equally important, bring to the game. And of course, the terms god & goddess & consort are metaphoric in nature.

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All religion is metaphoric. That is the nature of religion. it is a story to represent an ideal.

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All religion is metaphoric. That is the nature of religion. it is a story to represent an ideal.

Metaphoric and prophetic also represented/manifested in the real world.. Full fold

For example i wouldn't be surprised if Mary was really a virgin to represent the ancient legends etc.... Please give me a break on this statement, this is just an example of what I mean about the metaphors coming into existence...

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She is the incubator and all life comes from her

She is both the root and the seed of life, within her is an everlasting womb

She is the deepest emotion

As told by the severity of a mothers heart

And the scorn induced by a lovers infraction

Food naturally comes from her, this is one of her amazements

He sees her worth, she is endowed with every treasure of the earth

He pursues, protects, provides for and loves her from the first sight until the very end

He is a tri-fold - a father, son and friend

Together they share the creation of life and all of it's manifold beauty

Together they train up their children in righteousness

Edited by SpiritWriter
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Metaphoric and prophetic also represented/manifested in the real world.. Full fold

For example i wouldn't be surprised if Mary was really a virgin to represent the ancient legends etc.... Please give me a break on this statement, this is just an example of what I mean about the metaphors coming into existence...

Mary couldn't not have been a virgin right before birth, it's an impossibility. Furthermore, the concept of Mary was already an archetype found in many other culture. Athena was born of a god's brain, Horus was born of a dead father, the Celt had a Virgo Paritura (Virgin going to give birth) they worshiped all over the Europe (one of which was found and destroyed in the Chartres Cathedral). Actually if read Ean Begg's book on the Cult of the Black Virgin, you will see that Mary wasn't really the only one virgin.

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But your earlier post seems to diminish those who don't believe in god/a god, to set them apart as being less than, or to diminish a reality in which a deity it not ascendant. Or maybe I'm not understanding your intent: A world without gods would be a world where humans were incapable of imagination or of many logical skils like analytical thinking, reason and extrapolation. So, a world without gods would be a dull, unimaginative, and non- human worldI contend that whether there is a god or not, human beings would still have the same logical thinking skills, analyics, reason, etc., that these trait are not exclusive to religious folks nor are these skills affected by lack of religious beliefs.

Belief/ non belief is a choice based on a lack of evidences. Neither diminishes a person.

But the capacity for belief is the same intellectual capacity as that for imagination, and also the same as the capacity for logic (most beliefs grew from the application of logic to an observation without enough data)

And so any world without religious /spiritual elements in its sapient beings would be a world without imagination or logic. That is the nature of our self aware sapience.

No they are not exclusive to religious folk but religion grows from the same innate thought processes, and you cant eliminate spirituality or religiousity without removing a part of our self aware sapience Over 90 % of humans in the 21st century still express belief in a spiritual dimension to life, or a direct belief in gods etc. Tha tis because it is a natural construction of the way we think and is observable in very young children (look up articles on the nature and construction of human beliefs )

A person can chose not to believe or chose not to exercise logic or chose not to use their imagination, but the ability remains in every human. As long as it exists in our species we will have spirituality religiousity and imagination logic etc as a species.

LAslty religion is an expression of other human tendencies; to divide like from unlike, to catalogue and codify, and to group into groups of similarity. People do the same with sporting and other social groups.

Separately logic, statistical evidences and observation tells me that a person with a spiritual element to their life is more than a person without one, simply beause any addition to humanity is just that, and any loss from it is a loss. I would say the same for a person who did not use their imagination or their logic.

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All religion is metaphoric. That is the nature of religion. it is a story to represent an ideal.

Not always. Sometimes religions grow from individual experiences with the divine. Be that a cro magnon shaman or someone like myself.

In such cases the experience is literal/physical and the conclusions, extrapolations, and associated beliefs, a part of logic. I would argue that the redirection of christianity by saul /paul is quite likely such a case, growing from his encounter with a divine reality.

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Do you think the world would be different if rather than following a God the Abrahamic religions viewed the Divine as female rather than masculine? Mother rather than Father. What if Jesus or Mohammad would have been a women?

Yes, I think it would be a lot different, but I don't think the gender of the head god determines the culture, but the attitudes of the culture determine how they view their god. If you read any of the work by Marija Gimbutas who is an anthropologist who studied cultures where the primary god was a Goddess, she found they were far more egalitarian based on things such as their homes didn't seem to represent low status/high status, but more everyone on the same level. They were not warlike and more peaceful, agricultural and their idea of God was feminine, more nurturing and maternal as a reflection of their society and how they lived. As these cultures were invaded and war became more prevalent, there was a transition from the high god being feminine and a male consort, then the male consort equal as cultures started clashing and fight until finally, the male god became the primary and represented the focus of their culture and when the Goddess was worshipped as the main god, societies were power-with and as the male God became prevalent, societies were power-over. What came first? The chicken or the egg? Well, that's up for debate, I'd say, but I say the change in cultures initiated the change in the views on the gender of their high god, but one could argue that the beliefs of gender of the high god influenced it first, but I feel that is a weaker stance.

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She is the incubator and all life comes from her

She is both the root and the seed of life, within her is an everlasting womb

She is the deepest emotion

As told by the severity of a mothers heart

And the scorn induced by a lovers infraction

Food naturally comes from her, this is one of her amazements

He sees her worth, she is endowed with every treasure of the earth

He pursues, protects, provides for and loves her from the first sight until the very end

He is a tri-fold - a father, son and friend

Together they share the creation of life and all of it's manifold beauty

Together they train up their children in righteousness

That is just flat-out beautiful. Did you write it yourself, or are you quoting someone? Thank you for sharing this beautiful piece.

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Belief/ non belief is a choice based on a lack of evidences. Neither diminishes a person.

But the capacity for belief is the same intellectual capacity as that for imagination, and also the same as the capacity for logic (most beliefs grew from the application of logic to an observation without enough data)

And so any world without religious /spiritual elements in its sapient beings would be a world without imagination or logic. That is the nature of our self aware sapience.

No they are not exclusive to religious folk but religion grows from the same innate thought processes, and you cant eliminate spirituality or religiousity without removing a part of our self aware sapience Over 90 % of humans in the 21st century still express belief in a spiritual dimension to life, or a direct belief in gods etc. Tha tis because it is a natural construction of the way we think and is observable in very young children (look up articles on the nature and construction of human beliefs )

A person can chose not to believe or chose not to exercise logic or chose not to use their imagination, but the ability remains in every human. As long as it exists in our species we will have spirituality religiousity and imagination logic etc as a species.

LAslty religion is an expression of other human tendencies; to divide like from unlike, to catalogue and codify, and to group into groups of similarity. People do the same with sporting and other social groups.

Separately logic, statistical evidences and observation tells me that a person with a spiritual element to their life is more than a person without one, simply beause any addition to humanity is just that, and any loss from it is a loss. I would say the same for a person who did not use their imagination or their logic.

I disagree with the last statement. My dad was an atheist, my mother very religious, yet they both had equal capacity for imagination, humor, compassion, generosity, creativity, and love of family & life. When my dad crossed over, there wasn't enough room in the chapel to fit every one in who came to pay their respects. His beliefs or lack of made not one bit of difference to the world at large, because he always showed up with a huge heart. My kids really don't have any beliefs, either, but they are much like their grandfather, a blessing to their communities.

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I disagree with the last statement. My dad was an atheist, my mother very religious, yet they both had equal capacity for imagination, humor, compassion, generosity, creativity, and love of family & life. When my dad crossed over, there wasn't enough room in the chapel to fit every one in who came to pay their respects. His beliefs or lack of made not one bit of difference to the world at large, because he always showed up with a huge heart. My kids really don't have any beliefs, either, but they are much like their grandfather, a blessing to their communities.

My dad was like that also and I was amazed how many peole from all walks of life came up to me at his funeral and told how he had helped them along their lifes road. He didnt have a religious bone in his body. Neither did i for the first 22 years of my life. BUT, add a spiritual /religious dimension to such a person and you HAVE to add something to their total humanity. That happened to me.

Adding something cant subtract from the totality of a person, it has to make the person something more and closer to their full potential. It is like teaching a person to speak, or read, or think logically, or speak a second language, or understand maths or poetry, or how to play a musical instrument.

So, no matter what a person is without a spiritual dimension they are more when they acknowledge and embrace one. They can see things in alternative ways and think using a different model of thought. They are linked to humanity and the universe around them via the divine spirit however they perceive that to be. They are given greater empowerments, physical and psychological, either via the power of belief, or via the abilty to tap into the physical powers of god/the divine/the cosmic consciousness.

One can only be more, and closer to full human potential, when one develops a spiritual awareness or a connection to the divine.

Tha t does not diminish the many wonderful people like my father or yours who had no such connection or perception. My father was a secular humanist with the emphasis on active humanism. He acted how truly spiritual and religious people are supposed to act, yet without a recognition of those forces motivated, rather, by the human spirit and a value/philosophical based system of ethics and moralities.

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I disagree with the last statement. My dad was an atheist, my mother very religious, yet they both had equal capacity for imagination, humor, compassion, generosity, creativity, and love of family & life. When my dad crossed over, there wasn't enough room in the chapel to fit every one in who came to pay their respects. His beliefs or lack of made not one bit of difference to the world at large, because he always showed up with a huge heart. My kids really don't have any beliefs, either, but they are much like their grandfather, a blessing to their communities.

Sounds like my Dad, he to was an atheist. I miss him. He was a great story teller with a singular sense of humor. I know a lot of atheist, more than I do Christians. One is a musician. I find logic and creativity go hand in hand most of time.

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My dad was like that also and I was amazed how many peole from all walks of life came up to me at his funeral and told how he had helped them along their lifes road. He didnt have a religious bone in his body. Neither did i for the first 22 years of my life. BUT, add a spiritual /religious dimension to such a person and you HAVE to add something to their total humanity. That happened to me.

Adding something cant subtract from the totality of a person, it has to make the person something more and closer to their full potential. It is like teaching a person to speak, or read, or think logically, or speak a second language, or understand maths or poetry, or how to play a musical instrument.

So, no matter what a person is without a spiritual dimension they are more when they acknowledge and embrace one. They can see things in alternative ways and think using a different model of thought. They are linked to humanity and the universe around them via the divine spirit however they perceive that to be. They are given greater empowerments, physical and psychological, either via the power of belief, or via the abilty to tap into the physical powers of god/the divine/the cosmic consciousness.

One can only be more, and closer to full human potential, when one develops a spiritual awareness or a connection to the divine.

Tha t does not diminish the many wonderful people like my father or yours who had no such connection or perception. My father was a secular humanist with the emphasis on active humanism. He acted how truly spiritual and religious people are supposed to act, yet without a recognition of those forces motivated, rather, by the human spirit and a value/philosophical based system of ethics and moralities.

We may be more than we acknowledge if we had a spiritual dimension, IDK, but I have never thought my dad was lacking in any way that mattered. Maybe he didn't reach his full potential, but what he did achieve far more than many people. But he wasn't perfect, he struggled with alcoholism while my mom struggled with mental illness. Yet, despite these struggles, or maybe because of efforts to rise above them, they were humanists. When I was a kid I resented the dysfunctions, now as an adult, I have immense respect for how they managed to retain their humanity, humor & compassion in the face of their diseases. That has become my definition of courage.

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That is just flat-out beautiful. Did you write it yourself, or are you quoting someone? Thank you for sharing this beautiful piece.

Oh thank you so much. I'm glad you like it. :);)

Yes I wrote it. :

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Mary couldn't not have been a virgin right before birth, it's an impossibility. Furthermore, the concept of Mary was already an archetype found in many other culture. Athena was born of a god's brain, Horus was born of a dead father, the Celt had a Virgo Paritura (Virgin going to give birth) they worshiped all over the Europe (one of which was found and destroyed in the Chartres Cathedral). Actually if read Ean Begg's book on the Cult of the Black Virgin, you will see that Mary wasn't really the only one virgin.

I say all things are possible through God. All he would have had to do was put a little seed in there...

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Mary couldn't not have been a virgin right before birth, it's an impossibility. Furthermore, the concept of Mary was already an archetype found in many other culture. Athena was born of a god's brain, Horus was born of a dead father, the Celt had a Virgo Paritura (Virgin going to give birth) they worshiped all over the Europe (one of which was found and destroyed in the Chartres Cathedral). Actually if read Ean Begg's book on the Cult of the Black Virgin, you will see that Mary wasn't really the only one virgin.

Also you are missing the point. I said I wouldn't be surprised if Mary was a virgin, as a manifestation of the legends.

Edited by SpiritWriter

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I do believe in prophetic word..

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We may be more than we acknowledge if we had a spiritual dimension, IDK, but I have never thought my dad was lacking in any way that mattered. Maybe he didn't reach his full potential, but what he did achieve far more than many people. But he wasn't perfect, he struggled with alcoholism while my mom struggled with mental illness. Yet, despite these struggles, or maybe because of efforts to rise above them, they were humanists. When I was a kid I resented the dysfunctions, now as an adult, I have immense respect for how they managed to retain their humanity, humor & compassion in the face of their diseases. That has become my definition of courage.

It wasnt until i left home and saw the world that I realised how lucky I had been, not just with my parents but my whole social environment.

My parents were perfect.

How do i know?

How else could they have raised a perfect child? :whistle: Seriously while not perfect my parents were the best i could have had. Not a dysfunctional bone in their body loving disciplined self aware and preapred to spend the timre and do anythng it took to vbring their kids up to be loved solid citizens They gave up smoking as we kids were born.

They never touched more than a glass or so of alcohol in our presence and mostly at times like christmass They physically disciplined us but never once touched us in anger or even got angry, and always explained the ethical and moral rationale for beheviour punishment and expectations They explained the purpose of punishments and that they were dealing with behaviour not us as people. ie their love was unconditional but our behaviour had consequences.

They spent considerable time reading to us and introducing us to creative play and imagination. They taught us life skills from cooking sewing gardening through mechanics and design and construction. Mum only had 7 years of schooling and never did any high school. Dad by comparison was a genius but became a skilled fitter and turner to povide a state govt job for his family.

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It wasnt until i left home and saw the world that I realised how lucky I had been, not just with my parents but my whole social environment.

My parents were perfect.

How do i know?

How else could they have raised a perfect child? :whistle: Seriously while not perfect my parents were the best i could have had. Not a dysfunctional bone in their body loving disciplined self aware and preapred to spend the timre and do anythng it took to vbring their kids up to be loved solid citizens They gave up smoking as we kids were born.

They never touched more than a glass or so of alcohol in our presence and mostly at times like christmass They physically disciplined us but never once touched us in anger or even got angry, and always explained the ethical and moral rationale for beheviour punishment and expectations They explained the purpose of punishments and that they were dealing with behaviour not us as people. ie their love was unconditional but our behaviour had consequences.

They spent considerable time reading to us and introducing us to creative play and imagination. They taught us life skills from cooking sewing gardening through mechanics and design and construction. Mum only had 7 years of schooling and never did any high school. Dad by comparison was a genius but became a skilled fitter and turner to povide a state govt job for his family.

You're just saying this to make me feel bad, right? No, glad someone had a happy childhood. I didn't, but on the other hand, I'm a very happy adult, so go figure. Maybe because it's been an easy ride since then. Get all the garbage out of the way early so that anything that comes after is better by comparison!

Edited by Beany
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I try not let my childhood define me as an adult. Take the good, leave behind the bad. There is no perfect parent, Lord knows I wasn't. But what does this have to do with God or Goddess?

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Yeah, we did wander off topic, huh? For me, the goddess is important, as I look to a sacred idea/ideal that mirrors my experiences as a woman, something which allowed my spiritual journey to begin internally instead of externally and didn't require a shift in gender identification, which for me meant moving away from and out of myself. While I understand that God is genderless, semantically God is referred to as masculine, and the language we use plays a role in how we shape our reality. So I prefer she/her, and the feminine goddess who is every bit as powerful in her own right as the male, because of who she is, not who she gave birth to, or who she tended or followed.

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I believe regarding god as male maybe helpful for some and regarding her as female is helpful to others understanding both is helpful for individuals personally at times perhaps but more importantly so they can understand another that may view god differently than they do. If you need to repair damage done to your psyche by a male or males a male father/lover figure is good to do that. If you are male you may want a father or mother figure but you may feel uncomfortable being very intimate with a male god.. good thing there are both the attributes, both are beneficial, depending on who you are and what you need.

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But really though god is god.. in the presents of the lord I rarely think about male or female. I am just glad im not hung up on one or the other and I do deeply respect both. It is important but at the same time it is not...

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I try not let my childhood define me as an adult. Take the good, leave behind the bad. There is no perfect parent, Lord knows I wasn't. But what does this have to do with God or Goddess?

Oh a lot, I think.

Patriachal /matriachal societies, the role of men and women in society/family and a childs life, parenting figures, our need for /habitualisation to, a loving authorative presence in our lives. All these things contribute to both human construction , and perception/ understanding, of our gods. For every child their parents are their gods to begin with, and for most we define our gods in mother/father terms. Just think of the words we use "our father" or "earth mother" etc.

The biblical god and many early pagan gods are clearly expressed in these terms and the ancient babylonians, who perhaps started the whole thing in the abrahamic tradition, divided their fertility gods into powerful male and female figures who, in totality, expressed the dual nature of humanity..

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Sorry, I just want to punctuate this better....

I believe regarding god as male may be helpful for some and regarding her as female is helpful to others. Understanding both is helpful for an individual's personal self at times, but more importantly it is good to know that someone else may view God differently than you do. If you need to repair damage done to your psyche by a male or males, a male father/lover figure is good to do that with, or you may feel more comfortable with a female God, there can be arguments for both. But for me a relationship with a male god is healing. If you are male you may need a father figure but you may feel uncomfortable being very intimate with a male god.. good thing there are both the attributes, both are beneficial, depending on who you are and what you need.

I know that was kind of corny to re-say the same thing. But I was on a regular computer this time and was easier to edit with. To be quite honest I do not like typing on these forums on my phone. I might be getting more used to it now though....

peace 4 now

Edited by SpiritWriter

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