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Karlis

What are your thoughts about salvation?

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[According to the Bible, God’s salvation is meant for people of all nations.]

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

Awakening = being "born again"

Edited by braveone2u

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[According to the Bible, God’s salvation is meant for people of all nations.]

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

Awakening = being "born again"

Can you give some specific details about the meaning of awakening = born again? From my viewpoint, if or when one accepts Jesus as Saviour, repents and is baptised ... does not mean that one is born again. Or did I miss something else that you mean about "awakening"?

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[According to the Bible, God’s salvation is meant for people of all nations.]

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

Awakening = being "born again"

It also had to do with receiving a new identity. In Revelation, several passages speak about God's people being given a new name.

During the first century, this had huge implications. Jews that followed Jesus had to be born again, or receive a new identity, in order to enter into the age to come (the Messianic Age.) When Jews followed Jesus, they were considered apostates by other Jews and their families, and not considered Jews by them.

When the Romans went to war with Judea, Jews everywhere in the Roman Empire were persecuted simply because they were a Jew. Shortly before that, Paul tirelessly campaigned with the Christians to warn them not to return to Judaism. Paul knew that Jesus took the curse of the Law (Deuteronomy 28:15-68) on Himself and those that rejected Him took the curse on themselves.

When the Romans went to war, the Jews were campaigning to other Jews to fight the Romans in effort to protect their heritage. Those that joined the revolution died either in combat, of starvation, or from sedition among their own. Josephus called it the worst tribulation that the Jews ever went through. Had the Christians not been born again, they would have been destroyed alongside their Jewish brethren.

So, being born again created a new identity by which their was a noticeable difference between the Jews and Christians. Of course, that is bot the exclusive definition of being born again, but rather an evident benefit of it.

Edited by Bluefinger
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Can you give some specific details about the meaning of awakening = born again? From my viewpoint, if or when one accepts Jesus as Saviour, repents and is baptised ... does not mean that one is born again. Or did I miss something else that you mean about "awakening"?

I think in a spiritual sense, it was when God made His dwelling among men by His Spirit.

Consider Adam. When Adam was created, there was no temple. God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. During those days, God and Adam had an intimate relationship.

When Adam ate the forbidden fruit, God could not find Adam. There was a disconnect. In a way, Adam died.

After that, God would enter a temple by His Spirit. To commune with God, men would have to be called to by God and would have to purify themselves before entering the sanctuary.

Before Solomon's temple was destroyed, God's Spirit departed and went up to Heaven. It didn't return until Jesus was baptized. Jesus became a temple for God's Spirit. Thus, the call for us to be baptized and born again means to purify ourselves in the death and resurrection of Christ and become a temple (residence) for God's Spirit.

In that way, we become Spiritually alive. We are born again.

I hope that helped.

Edited by Bluefinger

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~~~ ...

... the call for us to be baptized and born again means to purify ourselves in the death and resurrection of Christ and become a temple (residence) for God's Spirit.

In that way, we become Spiritually alive. We are born again.

I hope that helped.

As I see it, Scriptures say that the above process means being "conceived again" or "begotten again" -- not "born again".

1Pe 1:23 (ASV translation) having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed [through human father's sperm], but of incorruptible (seed)[aka through Holy Spirit/Seed of God/Jesus], through the word of God, which liveth and abideth#.

# "conceived through the word of God", meaning conceived by the Spirit (non-perishable "seed"-"semen") that is of the Spirit of Jesus.

Sorry to quote a slab of Scriptures in support, but here it is necessary for clarity's sake:

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord [Jesus] is that Spirit [the imperishable seed/"semen" by which one can be "conceived again" so as to be "born again" as an immortal spirit being.]

1Co 15:12 ... how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Co 15:44 ... There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:50 ... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ... .

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Rom 8:11 ... if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. [At the resurrection to life].

I do realise that the view I'm presenting here is not the mainstream Christian doctrine, but imo, it is what the Scriptures say.

Karlis

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Praying for 5 minutes and then going back to your life with a clean state of mind...and an appointment with an Afghani hooker the very same day.

Oh, oh and it's also god's version of Britain's Got Talent called - Earth's Got Sinner's. Sob stories abound!

Edited by Sean93

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Praying for 5 minutes and then going back to your life with a clean state of mind...and an appointment with an Afghani hooker the very same day.

Oh, oh and it's also god's version of Britain's Got Talent called - Earth's Got Sinner's. Sob stories abound!

That is not the biblical version of the repentance necessary for salvation, although it may be the belief/practice of some churches and people.

Biblically the responsibilities of a "sinner' who wants salvation are clear.

First you have to TRULY repent your sin. Ie. be truly sorry that you did it and recognise the harm done by the sin.

Second you have to make restitution for your sin. In the case of a hooker that might involve going to her /him and saying how sorry you are for treating her as an object obtainable for cash. How you now see her/him as a human being of worth and would never use a prostitute again because of that.

And finally, you have to sincerely believe, intend, and expect that you will NOT commit that sin again "go and sin no more"

Being human you may fail in that hope and expectation, but you must hope and believe it sincerely, and do your best to "sin no more."

After that, god will judge your heart and mind as to its true intent. All men are saved by the grace of god but they must believe in that salvation. And true belief will ALWAYS include, within itself, a set of values and actions based on that belief.

So even another human can see a person's true beliefs in how they act.

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This would be fine, except that most of modern humanity seems to be so depressed that it is on medication, including many pre-adolescents, and suicide is the highest cause of death in people under 40 or so.

Those who aren't depessed are increasingly frustrated, angry, and violent; and also turning to legal and illegal drugs to cope withtheir lives.

That is NOT a functioning society nor a functioning populace, and it is NOT, IMO, how humans are meant to live or should have to live.

Religion isn't the answer either. It is just another scape goat to blame problems on.

Humanity isn't meant to be enslaved mentally either by being trained to fear sky monsters at every turn.

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Religion isn't the answer either. It is just another scape goat to blame problems on.

Humanity isn't meant to be enslaved mentally either by being trained to fear sky monsters at every turn.

Religion as an expression of natural human spirituality does provide an effective answer, but it must come from within, and be a form of freedom, liberation from many of the other physical, and philosophical belief- driven enslavements of man, and a form of empowerment; rather than be imposed from without.

In the case of imposed, rather than inner, belief -driven religions, i agree with you. Like any imposed philosophy or belief system, it can be oppressive.

Religion need not be about fear but the opposite; relief from the natural, evolved fears of humanity; of loss, grief, pain, suffering, loneliness, isolation etc.

That is why oragised religions have been so efective nad enduring since for at least 15000 years. They provide for these basic human needs, very effectively.

There is no fear or guilt or any negative emotion attached to my relationship with god, or to my spirituality. Rather, it is enriching, empowering, liberating and enabling.

I was a good, strong, positive person without god; but i am better, stronger and more positive with him. God helps complete who and what I am as a human being; and thus, in my opinion, god can do the same for every human who accepts the presence of god within them and about them.

Edited by Mr Walker
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I didn't say that. The Bible did.

"Born not of blood (means God is not talking about a physical but a spiritual birth), nor of the WILL of the flesh, nor of the WILL of the man; but of God." John 1:13

"Thou (Father) hast given him (Jesus) power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou (Father) has given him (Jesus)."

"You have not chosen me; but I have chosen you. " "I speak not of you all (I know whom I have chosen)" "No man can come unto Me except it were given unto him of My Father."

"No man can come to Me except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him..."

When Jesus asked the disciples who do you say, I am? The various disciples made guesses which were every one wrong. Jesus turns to Peter and says -- Who do you say, I am? Peter said, Thou art the Christ. Jesus said to Peter, Blessed art thou Peter, for flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee (missionaries and preachers do not reveal that Jesus is the Christ) but my Father which is in Heaven. Upon THIS rock foundation will I build my church ...

What rock was that? Peter was a stone not as big as a rock. Like in building a wall. Peter was not the rock. The rock foundation is this, "flesh and blood hath not revealed that Jesus is the Christ; but my Father in Heaven." It stays hidden but always alive in Calvinistic doctrine churches and reawakens in such world wide revivals as The Reformation of 1500's. As much as the "free will" doctrine believers hate it, they have never been able to eradicate it. That's because Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

They should love it; for far more are saved (as many as the sands of the sea and the stars in heaven) than know they are saved. That's why they need the good news of what God has done 100% by His blood. Why would God give us a revival when preachers are telling people they must do something some work to save themselves, (accept, believe, confess, repent, etc.) taking part of the credit away from God and giving man part credit.

God bless us all is my prayer.

Edited by Copen

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Hmmmm...

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I just received shocking sad news that Karlis has passed away........... Karlis RIP.. My heart goes out to your loved ones..

Bless you Karlis

I am still in shock..This is one sad day ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Karlis "May the Angels lead you into paradise" God bless you. RIP :innocent::wub:

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Karlis "May the Angels lead you into paradise" God bless you. RIP :innocent::wub:

Awww lovely

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Awww lovely

Sniff need some tissues, honestly BM I know he will have gone to heaven he was a lovely soul... sad day indeed :cry:

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Sniff need some tissues, honestly BM I know he will have gone to heaven he was a lovely soul... sad day indeed :cry:

You know something? He was one who believed in heaven, I feel he is right were he wants to be, at peace in heaven...I wish him all the best... Bless him and his family

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Rom 8:11 ... if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. [At the resurrection to life].

I do realise that the view I'm presenting here is not the mainstream Christian doctrine, but imo, it is what the Scriptures say.

Karlis

Excellent!

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I just received shocking sad news that Karlis has passed away........... Karlis RIP.. My heart goes out to your loved ones..

Bless you Karlis

I am still in shock..This is one sad day ..

Sorry to hear the death of Karlis. He seemed like a fair man, and served as a good moderator of this website. No doubt, he is in heaven. RIP, Karlis.

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Salvation means to find the divinity within you by establishing a connection with the powerhouse of divinity, God. I am light. The energy, the soul,anything you call it. And the highest energy, is GOD. We all believe in God but have anybody felt him? To establish a direct personal relationship with him, one needs an understanding of self and the Supreme, God. With the knowledge and meditation, we can meet God and find peace and happiness, all that we need today. Salvation is nothing but this. To get more insight on it, *SNIP*. This could be your final destination in your search for God. :yes:

Edited by Paranoid Android
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I hope it isn't inappropriate to say but I find it interesting that one of his last threads here would be about salvation. I have often heard that we sometimes become aware on some subliminal level when our end is near. I wonder if this was an attempt by him for a final witness...

Rest in Peace Karlis. I would have liked to have had the time to know him better.

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I imagine he was saved. RIP.

As for his topic question. I feel good about it.

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Guys,

If you really are in search of something perfect, like i am, I would suggest you to join your nearest meditation center of the Brahma Kumaris. It will fill you up with internal peace and bliss. I have found my perfect companion and want everyone else to find him too! I know your search for God and salvation will end here.

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