Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Br Cornelius

The Environment and Capitalism

51 posts in this topic

growth.png?w=529&h=567

http://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/

There is no sustainable capitalist solution to the environmental crisis we face. Change the economic fundamentals to a zero growth paradigm or face a collapse of civilization as an inevitable consequence.

Br Cornelius

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or... we could all get given, by the government, the same sized house on the same sized land with the same wage for all so that no one is encouraged to work hard, or invent something to make them money.

Oh wait.... i think this has been tried before.....

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or... we could all get given, by the government, the same sized house on the same sized land with the same wage for all so that no one is encouraged to work hard, or invent something to make them money.

Oh wait.... i think this has been tried before.....

If the adherence to a growth paradigm leads to an inevitable environmental collapse is it really sensible to stick with it and just accept the consequences. There have been and continue to be many examples of sustainable zero growth lifestyles in the world - but none of them can be considered economically viable within the language of modern economics. What is at fault here - the sustainable lifestyle or modern economics.

I personally don't want to become extinct on a point of principle.

Br Cornelius

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I/we suppost to be on the verge of death because of global warming?

Or is this more scare mongering and nostradamus like predictions for decades to come?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I/we suppost to be on the verge of death because of global warming?

Or is this more scare mongering and nostradamus like predictions for decades to come?

Population pressure has manifested in collapse of environmental indices across the board. Global warming is simply one of a large range of crisis we face due to over exploitation of resources. The reality is that in a future of reduced access to cheap oil we will face many of the things we expect as modern citizens simply ceasing to be economically viable. It has already got to the stage that people are making hard choices of whether to heat their home, feed themselves or put petrol into their cars. We are in the early stages of a collapse and no amount of gigery pokery will magically put cheap oil back on the table.

This is the immediate human crisis, but the dash to maintain our lifestyle at any cost is reaking massive damage on the ecosystem which provides most of our essential resources such as soil and water. We are fracking our water tables to get gas which will lead to massive pollution of our essential supplies of clean water. Meanwhile biodiversity (the range of other organisms on the planet) is in freefall with knock on effects in agricultural productivity. For every 10% loss of biodiversity in agricultural lands we lose 1% agricultural productivity and we have already lost over 40% of on farm biodiversity. I suspect that there will be a tipping point where agricultural productivity will similarly fall off a cliff.

The only solution is to choose to not consume beyond the capacity of the planet to replenish. Communism is simply another flavour of capitalism with the same inate growth imperative - it offers no solution to anything. As I said we have to start to learn from people who actually do live sustainably - not from economists and political theorists who live in such a state of abstraction that most of them cannot even comprehend the challenges we face.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to live in a tree

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does appear that you would like us to be subsistance farmers, much like we were 5,000+ years ago.

I will if you lead by example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does appear that you would like us to be subsistance farmers, much like we were 5,000+ years ago.

I will if you lead by example.

It seems that you want to die. The definition of madness is to keep repeating a wrong course of action and expecting a better outcome to magically manifest.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Do you really think that ignoring the scientific evidence will protect you from the decline in oil, soil, water, biodiversity and clean air. Do you understand how dependent we are on a dwindling resource to hold the whole Tower of Bable together. Do you understand what will happen when industrial agriculture can no longer produce food at a price you can afford.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems that you want to die. The definition of madness is to keep repeating a wrong course of action and expecting a better outcome to magically manifest.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Br Cornelius

Am I in mortal danger? Look into your crystal ball Nostradamus, and tell me what you see?

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you really think that ignoring the scientific evidence will protect you from the decline in oil, soil, water, biodiversity and clean air. Do you understand how dependent we are on a dwindling resource to hold the whole Tower of Bable together. Do you understand what will happen when industrial agriculture can no longer produce food at a price you can afford.

Br Cornelius

Death, it would seem. Unless your threats are as useless as your predictions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Death, it would seem. Unless your threats are as useless as your predictions.

They are not my predictions - they are empirical facts produced by a range of scientists, economists and philosophers. I am just reporting those facts. They are readily available from multiple sources.

I find it tragic that an intelligent person like yourself would rather accept an inevitable death than actual get up and do something about it. That is why we will likely do as you say - die.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When will food become to expensive for the majority of people living in the west?

What will they do with the food that noone can afford? Throw it away? I live in a country with 4.5 million people, 40 million sheep and 18 million cows that also produces exports amounts of fruit an veges. I am sure that we can survive for a while as a self sustaining island. However, i doubt it will ever come to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When will food become to expensive for the majority of people living in the west?

What will they do with the food that noone can afford? Throw it away? I live in a country with 4.5 million people, 40 million sheep and 18 million cows that also produces exports amounts of fruit an veges. I am sure that we can survive for a while as a self sustaining island. However, i doubt it will ever come to that.

Have you not wondered why food has almost doubled in price over the last 5 years ? Do you think that as oil prices continue to rise that will not get worse.

There are already a substantial number of people who have been plunged into food poverty in the UK as a direct consequence. Malnutrition in the west is on the rise.

Why so complacent ?

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maybe all food produced should be given to the UN, and they would distribute it "fairly" to all the compliant people on the planet...or maybe that's what they want me to think.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maybe all food produced should be given to the UN, and they would distribute it "fairly" to all the compliant people on the planet...or maybe that's what they want me to think.

I didn't think you were in favour of big Government. You surprise me ;)

I smell a conspiracy theorist :clap:

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't think you were in favour of big Government. You surprise me ;)

I smell a conspiracy theorist :clap:

Br Cornelius

do you realise that has been the plan all along. don't forget you will have to hand over your own home grown food too. wasn't it kissenger that said 40 years ago that if you control the food, you control the people. do you want to be controlled cornelius? or is it you want to control others? just asking...

furthermore, the UN is a private organisation owned and run by "capitalists"

Edited by Little Fish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your money or your life

...they used to call that robbery, now they call it governance.

Edited by Little Fish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little Fish - have I advocated handing over control to the UN ? Do I think that a UN led OWG is at all likely ?

The chances of that little wet dream fantasy ever happening in a world short of oil are precisely zero.

The problem with you Little Fish is that your so wrapped up in you wet dream CT fantasies that your incapable of objectively looking at reality.

At least your starting to be a bit honest about your real motivations :tu:

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point of all this is that until you admit you have a problem you are incapable of looking for an answer.

We all need to start to own up to our complicity in the mess we are in.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The chances of that little wet dream fantasy ever happening in a world short of oil are precisely zero.

ah, but then we should hand over oil to the UN as well, and they will distribute it fairly to the compliant nations.

...anything else you think we might be short of?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ah, but then we should hand over oil to the UN as well, and they will distribute it fairly to the compliant nations.

...anything else you think we might be short of?

You have a lot of faith in the UN :lol:

I forgot (for a second), your a OWG freak :)

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The point of all this is that until you admit you have a problem you are incapable of looking for an answer.
that's generally true. but you are the one stating I have a problem, just as others have done throughout the centuries on their sandwich boards, they were incorrect, why are you the messiah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's generally true. but you are the one stating I have a problem, just as others have done throughout the centuries on their sandwich boards, they were incorrect, why are you the messiah?

Because I have a body of scientific evidence to support the claim.

No faith required - just evidence.

(not going to discuss your problem).

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because I have a body of scientific evidence to support the claim.
that is what the supporters of eugenics said too, not so long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as an aside, but there is a Dr. Mark Jaccard (I believe that is his name, its been a while since i read his wor), he has some good papers out there and he basically disproves peak oil as myth (that in reality, while we need to be dramatically cutting back our CO2 production, we are not in danger of running out of oil for centuries - global climate change aside). They're worth reading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.