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Uncle Sam

Holy Grail or Ark of Truth, do they exist?

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I been wondering about the Holy Grail, has anyone ever come close to finding it? What about the Ark of Truth? These are two important relics that are written in the history of time, but none have been found or proof that they exist? Are they mythical objects that were part of the greatest story or are they real thing?

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If you study the Jewish customs for the Passover. The Apostles and Jesus would all have there own cup, which should complicate the issue sufficently! The same for the Ark, was the original lost, then replaced with a replica?

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But it is a interesting subject. To find the original of both, it would definitely be something invaluable to history. An actual relic that told in Christain, Jewish, and Muslim legends would on a magnitude unlike any archeology discovers that came before. Something that has been searched for over 2000 years...

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I been wondering about the Holy Grail, has anyone ever come close to finding it? What about the Ark of Truth? These are two important relics that are written in the history of time, but none have been found or proof that they exist? Are they mythical objects that were part of the greatest story or are they real thing?

As far as I know there has never been any Holy Grail of any kind, whether it be a cup or a person. Legend abounds but there has never been any real proof of its existence. As for the ark of truth, no such thing exists except in Stargate. If on the other hand you are speaking of the Ark of the Covenant, then there is a real possibility that it now resides in Ethiopia.

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Well, if it's true(regarding the Ark of the Covenant and Ethiopia), I wish it would be disclosed to the entire world, allowing responsible inspection.

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dont you die if you touch it lol, i bet loads of peeps have found it but have not lived to tell the tale

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If the Holy Grail were more than the invention of medieval romance, I think it would kind of be the coolest thing ever. But since the legend only really got rolling after the Templars...I'm kind of chalking it up to creative literary minds of the day. I mean, everyone and his brother wrote a Grail romance.

As for the Ark, I've heard the stories of it being in Ethiopia, in that church. Arksum, Chapel of the Tablet. I knew I'd remember it.

And for giggles, found an old article from a year ago about said church:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069765/Ark-Covenant-revealed-leaking-roof-Ethiopian-chapel.html

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Sorry I was thinking about the wrong ark, but thanks for the information guys. I like to keep this topic going about these two artifacts. Maybe sooner or later will discover the actual truth about them. I decided to bring it up because no-one is hardly talking about these two supposely powerful artifacts.

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The holy Grail is ment to be the cup of Christ, so if you believe in the bible and the last supper then you have to believe that the cup exsists.

As for the ask most people say it is in ethopia, but noone can prove that it is.

There are some great stories surrounding both objects, so great post and i will be following with it with intreast

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A team of scientists led by renowned French marine archaeologist Franck Goddio recently announced that they have found a bowl, dating to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., that is engraved with what they believe could be the world's first known reference to Christ.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26972493/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/earliest-reference-describes-christ-magician/

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Nice find :)

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The Holy Grail is the body of Christ.

It's not a thing, it's a person.

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Nice find :)

I agree. Enjoyed reading that article.

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The Holy Grail is the body of Christ.

It's not a thing, it's a person.

Hi there,

I think that you would find that you are mistaken. According to both Christian and Catholic religions the holy grail is a cup or bowl. Refrences below.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06719a.htm

http://listverse.com/2010/02/08/10-possible-resting-places-of-the-holy-grail/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail

That is just off a google search. Please have a look OR post why you think its is Jesus and not an object.

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Sorry I was thinking about the wrong ark, but thanks for the information guys. I like to keep this topic going about these two artifacts. Maybe sooner or later will discover the actual truth about them. I decided to bring it up because no-one is hardly talking about these two supposely powerful artifacts.

Lol, someone has Stargate on the brain. :whistle:

Well, that's if they are, in fact, artifacts. I'm skeptical, especially of the Grail, because it only showed up for the first time in Perceval, le Conte du Graal. The author, Chrétien de Troyes, was - to use fantasy terms here - a bard, in the twelfth century. He was a creative mind, don't get me wrong, because he was what I would consider the father of true medieval literature, but that's just it: He was a bard. Bards tell stories. He got paid for writing stories his clients would like, and once the Arthurian legends got rolling, they were the rage. That's why there are so many stories that trickled down to us in modern times concerning them. The Grail itself really is only mentioned in these stories, 1100 years after Christ was supposedly crucified.

Of course, we still don't know 100% if Arthur was really a king or an archetype, so my skepticism may be proven wrong one day. And you really can't talk about the Grail without talking about Arthur and his knights, so...

As a side note, I'm not entirely sure I'd want Arthur himself to be proven to have existed, either. It's a great little mystery, and I'm afraid hard scientific fact of him would ruin the image I have of him in the stories. There was a book I read not long ago, by Bernard Cornwell, called The Winter King, which shoved Arthur into the historical record of the Dark Ages, but it presented him in such a way I felt the need to slap him silly. It's part of a series (that I have to finish, shame on me) that actually is pretty good. /tl;dr ot

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Hi there,

I think that you would find that you are mistaken. According to both Christian and Catholic religions the holy grail is a cup or bowl. Refrences below.

http://www.newadvent...then/06719a.htm

http://listverse.com...the-holy-grail/

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Holy_Grail

That is just off a google search. Please have a look OR post why you think its is Jesus and not an object.

If the Holy Grail had to exist, it would be hidden within metaphores and meanings, as such the cup (grail) would be something that held something sacred. When the cup was used by Christ, it was filled with wine, but Jesus himself said that, the wine was a metaphor for his blood, and that by taking his blood (metaphorically) we would also be remembering and honouring him. As such Jesus himself equated the Holy Grail with his person and not a physical cup. He is the cup, his blood is within it and that is why it is Holy.

The story of the Holy Grail, is a metaphor for Christ, who can give a man new and Eternal Life. If one reads the earliest literature of the Grail, we find this metaphor being repeatedly used... Even today much is said about how the Grail, is not a thing, but a person, an example of this can be found in Dan Browns "The Da vinci Code", where it is equated to the bloodline of Jesus Christ, as perpetuated by Mary Magdelene.

Either legend (cup) and (bloodline) are extrapolations of the term Holy Graal or rather Sangreal, in the archaic French, which can also be translated, to "Royal Blood", definite refence to Jesus Christ Himself, and according to others, his bloodline.

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If the Holy Grail had to exist, it would be hidden within metaphores and meanings, as such the cup (grail) would be something that held something sacred. When the cup was used by Christ, it was filled with wine, but Jesus himself said that, the wine was a metaphor for his blood, and that by taking his blood (metaphorically) we would also be remembering and honouring him. As such Jesus himself equated the Holy Grail with his person and not a physical cup. He is the cup, his blood is within it and that is why it is Holy.

The story of the Holy Grail, is a metaphor for Christ, who can give a man new and Eternal Life. If one reads the earliest literature of the Grail, we find this metaphor being repeatedly used... Even today much is said about how the Grail, is not a thing, but a person, an example of this can be found in Dan Browns "The Da vinci Code", where it is equated to the bloodline of Jesus Christ, as perpetuated by Mary Magdelene.

Either legend (cup) and (bloodline) are extrapolations of the term Holy Graal or rather Sangreal, in the archaic French, which can also be translated, to "Royal Blood", definite refence to Jesus Christ Himself, and according to others, his bloodline.

Sorry but the Da Vinci Code is not a refrence point at all its a novel, that is the same as me saying that middle earth exsisit casue its in the lord of the rings.....

And no..... The grail is the CUP used by christ at the last supper and supposedly used to collect his REAL blood when the romans put a spear in his side (done by John if memory serves)

When God referes to the wine being his blood he was refering to the liqued insdie the cup or grail but not the cup itself, so there is where the diffrence lies. I understand your view point however you cant confuse the fact that Jesus used a CUP to drink the wine out of and that CUP is the cup of Christ or also referd to as the holy grail. So to use a refrence that holds as much merit as yours indian Jones found the Cup of Christ and it was called the holy grail, in the first indianan jones move.

So yes Jesus past a cup around the dinner table at the last supper filled with wine, and said drink of this wine as my blood and the bread represented his body, so is bread a holy grail too? the simple answer is no, it cant be. The cup of christ is the holy grail and the sentiment behind the wine being blood was a diffrent thing all together, its what christians refer to as the breaking of bread.

So the grail is pysical (the cup) and the wine had the more spiritual meaning.

But i do like your argument, however there is a diffrence between the spirtual meaning and the pysical cup of Christ.

Thanks

Edited by Peter Cox

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Is there any reference of the Holy Grail in the Bible?

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Sorry but the Da Vinci Code is not a refrence point at all its a novel, that is the same as me saying that middle earth exsisit casue its in the lord of the rings.....

And no..... The grail is the CUP used by christ at the last supper and supposedly used to collect his REAL blood when the romans put a spear in his side (done by John if memory serves)

When God referes to the wine being his blood he was refering to the liqued insdie the cup or grail but not the cup itself, so there is where the diffrence lies. I understand your view point however you cant confuse the fact that Jesus used a CUP to drink the wine out of and that CUP is the cup of Christ or also referd to as the holy grail. So to use a refrence that holds as much merit as yours indian Jones found the Cup of Christ and it was called the holy grail, in the first indianan jones move.

So yes Jesus past a cup around the dinner table at the last supper filled with wine, and said drink of this wine as my blood and the bread represented his body, so is bread a holy grail too? the simple answer is no, it cant be. The cup of christ is the holy grail and the sentiment behind the wine being blood was a diffrent thing all together, its what christians refer to as the breaking of bread.

So the grail is pysical (the cup) and the wine had the more spiritual meaning.

But i do like your argument, however there is a diffrence between the spirtual meaning and the pysical cup of Christ.

Thanks

One point you should consider in all you said, the cup Jesus passed around, was never referred to as the Holy Grail in any literature.... it was referred to as a cup, Simply put, there was no Holiness associated with it, nor did Jesus emphasise the cup in any way. It had no mystical properties before or after the Last Supper, it was used time and again by others, after Jesus left the house in question, which was not even a house belonging to any members of his group.

The fact that this cup becomes embued with magical and mystical properties, is a story that has no basis in fact. It is well known that there are more references to magical and mystical objects in Celtic Mythology and Folklore, than in Christianity, including a magical Cauldron.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran_the_Blessed

This is why I would state that the reference to a Holy Grail can only be a refence to Christ himself, just as the Tree of Life is also a reference to Christ.

The Da Vinci Code is a Novel, but Dan Brown did in fact get his information from sources that believe exactly what he portrayed in the movie. Gnostic beliefs cover this quite openly in their acceptence of Mary Magdalene as the wife of Jesus.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene#New_Testament_Apocrypha_and_Gnostic_texts

I merely use the wiki links as examples (just as I did, the Da Vinci Code), because there are a number of sites totally dedicated to this stuff, which dates right back to the late 2nd Century. The Gnostic texts themselves are also easily available online.

Historically this can be found to be connected quite clearly to references of the Holy Grail, especially as it related to the Merovingian Kings, said to be heirs of the Holy bloodline of Jesus...

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail

So to sumarize... yes Jesus used a cup, but it remeained a cup, there is no Holy Grail, and if there is, it can only be Jesus himself.

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Is there any reference of the Holy Grail in the Bible?

No. The only refence is to a cup and that is it. Everything about the Holy Grail, is myth and legend, brought forth by the melding of different mythologies in the British Isles and the acceptance of Christianity in that era. The fact that the Roman Catholic Mass utilizes a cup to Hold the wine of the Eucharist was enough to mutate these myths into what is known today as the Holy Grail.

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If the Holy Grail had to exist, it would be hidden within metaphores and meanings, as such the cup (grail) would be something that held something sacred. When the cup was used by Christ, it was filled with wine, but Jesus himself said that, the wine was a metaphor for his blood, and that by taking his blood (metaphorically) we would also be remembering and honouring him. As such Jesus himself equated the Holy Grail with his person and not a physical cup. He is the cup, his blood is within it and that is why it is Holy.

The story of the Holy Grail, is a metaphor for Christ, who can give a man new and Eternal Life. If one reads the earliest literature of the Grail, we find this metaphor being repeatedly used... Even today much is said about how the Grail, is not a thing, but a person, an example of this can be found in Dan Browns "The Da vinci Code", where it is equated to the bloodline of Jesus Christ, as perpetuated by Mary Magdelene.

Either legend (cup) and (bloodline) are extrapolations of the term Holy Graal or rather Sangreal, in the archaic French, which can also be translated, to "Royal Blood", definite refence to Jesus Christ Himself, and according to others, his bloodline.

I was just going to mention the Da vinci Code but thought I would be mocked. This is a great post. Dan Brown used this book as a reference. He was sued for not crediting them enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Blood-Grail-Michael-Baigent/dp/0440136482

The ark and the grail are very real.

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I was just going to mention the Da vinci Code but thought I would be mocked. This is a great post. Dan Brown used this book as a reference. He was sued for not crediting them enough.

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/0440136482

The ark and the grail are very real.

I actually mentioned the book as well in one of my links in post 20, although my understanding is that there is really no such thing as the Holy Grail, it is merely the descendant of an earlier mythos fused to chrsitian rites in the form of the Catholic Mass.

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The grail's importance may be contrived by the church. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you went to a party last week and drank out of a cup. And I decided it was sacred. The cup is real. Maybe it really isn't sacred. The ark on the other hand is very real. It is described in Exodus. It isn't a part of the church alone. The Jewish culture respects it as well.

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The grail's importance may be contrived by the church. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you went to a party last week and drank out of a cup. And I decided it was sacred. The cup is real. Maybe it really isn't sacred. The ark on the other hand is very real. It is described in Exodus. It isn't a part of the church alone. The Jewish culture respects it as well.

Oh I agree, but if the cup has no mystical properties, then how would one know which one was real? I imagine thousands of cups must still exist from that time, very few, from Israel though, even less if they weern't made of a precious metal, if we are talking of a wooden cup (which is the most likely) then time would have rendered it to dust by now.

How many cups did Jesus and his disciples drink from in their 3 1/2 years together, which one can be said to be THAT Holy Grail? Remeber, nobody knew what was going to happen, they never in their lives thought that Jesus would be dead by that time tomorrow. There is absolutely no reason to think that that cup was anything special. The last supper as we know the scene was a normal event within Jewish society, it is called Passover Seder. It only gained importance in the context of christ because of what came later.

The house they had the passover meal was hired for only that night. Jesus alludes to this in a number of Gospels. It is like having a dinner at a Hotel on the evening of a national holiday. There was absolutely no reason why that cup would have been held in any special light.

As for the Ark of the Covenant, I would agree with you completely and as I stated earlier, it is widely believed to be in Ethiopia. A fact that is consistent with historical details known to exist after its disappearance from Jerusalem.

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