Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #151 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You may as well say that about the government. It's bound by laws, that are codified and protected. The government is also run by a heirachy and a leadership. BUT at the same time it is bound by the people. It represents the people and anything that the people decide's is wrong, it changes due to pressure from theose people. The same is true of the church. When it first began a large group of people were treated as second class citizens: women. Over time the church has changed due to internal pressures and it doesn't treat women as second class anymore. Same with black people. They were originally treated as a lesser race (sanctioned by the church) but it changed its tune. The church is by no means static. It changes just like any other system and its bound by what people think. The only difference is it takes longer to catch up than governments will. In 100 years people will look back on thiss whole thing with the same shame we look back at the churches treatment of black people. Probably. But we're not talking about 100 years from now. We're talking now. Threats of lawsuits are what prompted this action. So on the other hand. Gay people should think about how they have attacked the Church. Attacking believers for beliefs creates a need like this. The Church feels the need to protect. Screaming. Insulting. Hurling accusations of bigotry. Violence. Anger and Rage. Directed at people bound by canon. Creates a need like this. Reasonable discussions could change it. Many other churches have changed. But insulting the religious beliefs of a person. Sneering at them for not "stoning their daughters' and other nonsense. Well. That creates situations like this. You should take the anger you have. And direct it at those who actually hurt you. Rather than exaggerating. Rather than blaming those. Who have nothing to do with your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #152 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) You missed the distinction. The Church of England is sanctioned by the government. Religion isn't trying to force everyone. They are honoring their traditions, rules and rituals. You must have a history. With these churches or you wouldn't care. The same way you don't seem to care. That Jews do the exact same thing. Never is it mentioned. Excuse me. Let me reiterate what I have told you before. This is the last time I will. I live in the Uk. This law (as a bisexual) will apply to me and thus, I pay great attention to it (and was even part of the public consultation). Earlier this year it was announced the government were going through a public consultation on bringing in same sex marriage. At the time it was CIVIL marriage only. Not religious marriage, just civil. You know what happened? The church of England, the mormons, the jewish and catholics all said the same thing: don't go through with it because bad things will happen. Now remember, this was when it was just CIVIL marriage. Now I heard months of stuff like that coming from the church. It seemed every day some bishop or priest had something bad to say, that allowing same sex marriage would lead to some apocalypse, that society would break down. Now again, remember this was when it would be civil marriage and that NO religion would be able to do those marriages. It's only recently that the government has stated they'd open marriage to the groups that wanted to do so, but that seemed unlikely for such a long time since religious groups seemed hell bent on derailing the whole thing for everyone. So no, youre wrong. Religion has been trying to force it's will on everyone. I've followed this for months and believe me I know that they have. By comparison look at you. You've known about this for what? Two days? And read what, two articles? I'm sorry, but there's been much more to this than has been said in those articles and that's what I've been using when I look at this. This is a post I made on page 8 (which you either missed or ignored). Included are some quotes demonstrating the kind of language that has been used by church officials against same sex marriage full stop. Also note that one of the statements I used is from Jews. So no it's not just christians I care about, its just theyre the dominant religion here (which I have stated before). Now, I believe I've been as clear as I possibly can be with that. If you ignore it, well I don't see the point discussing this with you further. Edited December 13, 2012 by shadowhive 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGirl Posted December 13, 2012 #153 Share Posted December 13, 2012 They are not allowed to violate the equalities act and they dont. that's open to dispute too many 'faiths' violate equality of humans within their own religion. and, mostly in the case of fundamentalist christians,they try to shove their religious beliefs down other people's throats, they try to enact laws based on scriptural beliefs etc. they protest the funerals of soldiers and children. they ostracize and spew hate speech. why should i or anyone else tolerate that behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #154 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Excuse me. Let me reiterate what I have told you before. This is the last time I will. I live in the Uk. This law (as a bisexual) will apply to me and thus, I pay great attention to it (and was even part of the public consultation). Earlier this year it was announced the government were going through a public consultation on bringing in same sex marriage. At the time it was CIVIL marriage only. Not religious marriage, just civil. You know what happened? The church of England, the mormons, the jewish and catholics all said the same thing: don't go through with it because bad things will happen. Now remember, this was when it was just CIVIL marriage. Now I heard months of stuff like that coming from the church. It seemed every day some bishop or priest had something bad to say, that allowing same sex marriage would lead to some apocalypse, that society would break down. Now again, remember this was when it would be civil marriage and that NO religion would be able to do those marriages. It's only recently that the government has stated they'd open marriage to the groups that wanted to do so, but that seemed unlikely for such a long time since religious groups seemed hell bent on derailing the whole thing for everyone. So no, youre wrong. Religion has been trying to force it's will on everyone. I've followed this for months and believe me I know that they have. By comparison look at you. You've known about this for what? Two days? And read what, two articles? I'm sorry, but there's been much more to this than has been said in those articles and that's what I've been using when I look at this. This is a post I made on page 8 (which you either missed or ignored). Included are some quotes demonstrating the kind of language that has been used by church officials against same sex marriage full stop. Also note that one of the statements I used is from Jews. So no it's not just christians I care about, its just theyre the dominant religion here (which I have stated before). Now, I believe I've been as clear as I possibly can be with that. If you ignore it, well I don't see the point discussing this with you further. This is called "appeal to authority" and it is a logical fallacy. First I have not only been following it for two days. I have a close friend who is gay. He's been out for over 8 years. this is not the first time I've thought of this. Next. If your argument is that you have more research. Then you should concede to the church's position right? Obviously they have done more research on this than "a few months." http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-authority/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #155 Share Posted December 13, 2012 that's open to dispute too many 'faiths' violate equality of humans within their own religion. and, mostly in the case of fundamentalist christians,they try to shove their religious beliefs down other people's throats, they try to enact laws based on scriptural beliefs etc. they protest the funerals of soldiers and children. they ostracize and spew hate speech. why should i or anyone else tolerate that behavior? This is a gross exaggeration. The West Boro Baptist Church does this. in 2011, the church stated that it had about 40 members. This is not representative of Christianity. People just say it is. In order to justify responding with equally grotesque behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #156 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This is called "appeal to authority" and it is a logical fallacy. First I have not only been following it for two days. I have a close friend who is gay. He's been out for over 8 years. this is not the first time I've thought of this. Next. If your argument is that you have more research. Then you should concede to the church's position right? Obviously they have done more research on this than "a few months." http://www.logicalfa...l-to-authority/ You know what, you are unbelieveable. Here is what I think. Yes, I do think the church shouldn't be forced to do anything. No, no one has wanted to force the church to do anything. On the other hand, yes the church has wanted everyone to do as it says. I think the church is wrong on this issue. Extremely wrong. I dont want to force them to do anything, but I don't respect their opinions and beliefs, especially due to the immense negattive consequences those beliefs have had. I respect even less what they have tried to do: that they have tried to force everyone to do things their way, then when that has failed, claimed that tHEY are the ones being forced to do something. Pretty much every post I have made, you have done what you claimed I did. You have not only ignored what has been told to you, but you have twisted it. So thanks for nothing. I'm sick of responding to you saying the same old things and not bothering to respond to what I've said to you. Your attitude is just like those you're defending, that you just won't listen and that you see force where there is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopmo Posted December 13, 2012 #157 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It's not that simple when you have religion and its followers making a point at every turn to tell you you're wrong and you're going to burn in hell. For family members to tell you to stop being gay if you don't want to go to hell. To log onto a website or turn on the radio and have someone ranting about how homosexuals are gross and a bad influence and genetic mistakes. Not so easy to ignore that. Once my brother was walking through the park with his boyfriend and three men stopped them as they passed. The tried to force Christian Pamphlets in my brother's hands and tell them both they needed to hear the word of God and rethink their decisions. I told them to leave him alone. If religion and its followers would leave him alone, I wouldn't care what they do. So you can't get married in a Catholic church. Fine. But what about when you're not even near a church and you have people harassing you about it. Or what if you don't even WANT to get married at a church but you can't because the church has still butt its nose in and stopped laws from passing that would allow you to get married wherever you want? It's a different story then. It's not a "if you go in their house you can expect things their way" issue. It's a "I have nowhere to go because they keep forcing their way into MY house" issue. I believe the term "get that **** out of my face" works wonders in australia but you know we are pretty ballsy so stuff as we please. Wait didn't america have freedom of speech, oh wait you still do UTILISE IT. why be brought down by a misogynistic, fearmonger that yes probally touches kids. tell them to jog on and keep walking. He is a gay adult, not a limbless baby. Chin up sweetheart just think if you were in the middle east he wouldnt have made it through his confessing of tendencies. be grateful for what you have. thats saying that goths and emos are hard done by because they can not enter a church without harrasment. Once again he isn't hard done by because, everyone has mormans/johovas witnessses/ect. come to our doors and tell us we are following heathen religions. thats the point of time you turn slayer on and start running around screaming jibberish, they. will. not. return. Even got a joho to pronounce hitler was write with his extermination theories because they did not follow johova. ^The day I stopped looking for their god/s and started listening to my own (sifting through the bull**** in order to become agnostic) TBH tell your brother to go to a support group, because that is more underlying issues of selfconfidence and fitting in issues rather than him being disallowed from certain activities. Look at Rich/Powerful gay person, theyre out there as a mofo but can accept they do not care of others opinions. Before you jump up and say how dare I, this is coming from a person who will forever be segregated because of adhd and my refusal of taking speed to fix that issue apparently. it in all honestly has ruined alot of aspects of life how most would see it (university ect.), I do not let this deteriate my life in any part because honestly I wasn't interested in spending another 8 Years sitting down bored again. So I bounce around even more and work out ok I can't do this but what can I do. I now have a gradual understanding of my own brain activity and others about my body and usage. Once again thats's something that will never be taken serious science because of conditioning and type of diagnosing. But that is something I moved foward from, I don't really care that the world doesn't understand I'm benefitting from there own demises Same can be flipped around and say gays are biased. Gay Only Clubs, Fashion/Designers + other industries and mainly controlled by the homosexual population. A straight man would be ridiculed for doing so and be labeled as something for a biased opinion of the majority. Then you also have the homosexual population that just doesn't understand not everyone is gay and forces there way onto people, Working retail this happens a lot. Still doesn't create a biased opinion just that perticular person happens to be a f*wit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #158 Share Posted December 13, 2012 How is the Church wrong. For asking for a law to be passed. The forbids them from performing gay marriage. That takes the onus of them. And places it on the state. And also allows other churches. Who don't agree. To exempt themselves. And be able to perform gay marriage. How is that doing any of the things you say? You have failed to show that. How are they forcing their opinion on others? How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #159 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I believe the term "get that **** out of my face" works wonders in australia but you know we are pretty ballsy so stuff as we please. Wait didn't america have freedom of speech, oh wait you still do UTILISE IT. why be brought down by a misogynistic, fearmonger that yes probally touches kids. tell them to jog on and keep walking. He is a gay adult, not a limbless baby. Chin up sweetheart just think if you were in the middle east he wouldnt have made it through his confessing of tendencies. be grateful for what you have. thats saying that goths and emos are hard done by because they can not enter a church without harrasment. Once again he isn't hard done by because, everyone has mormans/johovas witnessses/ect. come to our doors and tell us we are following heathen religions. thats the point of time you turn slayer on and start running around screaming jibberish, they. will. not. return. Even got a joho to pronounce hitler was write with his extermination theories because they did not follow johova. ^The day I stopped looking for their god/s and started listening to my own (sifting through the bull**** in order to become agnostic) TBH tell your brother to go to a support group, because that is more underlying issues of selfconfidence and fitting in issues rather than him being disallowed from certain activities. Look at Rich/Powerful gay person, theyre out there as a mofo but can accept they do not care of others opinions. Before you jump up and say how dare I, this is coming from a person who will forever be segregated because of adhd and my refusal of taking speed to fix that issue apparently. it in all honestly has ruined alot of aspects of life how most would see it (university ect.), I do not let this deteriate my life in any part because honestly I wasn't interested in spending another 8 Years sitting down bored again. So I bounce around even more and work out ok I can't do this but what can I do. I now have a gradual understanding of my own brain activity and others about my body and usage. Once again thats's something that will never be taken serious science because of conditioning and type of diagnosing. But that is something I moved foward from, I don't really care that the world doesn't understand I'm benefitting from there own demises Same can be flipped around and say gays are biased. Gay Only Clubs, Fashion/Designers + other industries and mainly controlled by the homosexual population. A straight man would be ridiculed for doing so and be labeled as something for a biased opinion of the majority. Then you also have the homosexual population that just doesn't understand not everyone is gay and forces there way onto people, Working retail this happens a lot. Still doesn't create a biased opinion just that perticular person happens to be a f*wit This is a great post. Especially the part about the support group. When people get upset because others judge them. I get confused. Like you. I don't really care what others thing of me. People have treated me like I was mentally retarded. On many occasions. Because I sound funny. They assume I can't think. You learn not to let others take you down. Even when they send you nasty pms. Like shadowhive just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #160 Share Posted December 13, 2012 How is the Church wrong. For asking for a law to be passed. The forbids them from performing gay marriage. That takes the onus of them. And places it on the state. And also allows other churches. Who don't agree. To exempt themselves. And be able to perform gay marriage. How is that doing any of the things you say? You have failed to show that. How are they forcing their opinion on others? How? Now, what the church wanted was same sex marriage was banned for everyone. What they got isn't what they wanted, but it protects them but they're still unhappy. I did show that, I posted quotes from various religious organisations that said as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codeblind Posted December 13, 2012 #161 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Is it just to have the rights of a tradition man/woman ceremony, as a civil marriage could provide that with a few amendments to a few laws ? Is it to have some kind of revenge over the religions for calling them grievous sinners for so long ? I cant understand the need for it to be in a church, it just seems so anal (sorry no pun intended)? I would hate to be married in church knowing that secretly the priest feels I'm a sinner and the whole establishment of Christianity views me as a sinner also...it would leave a stain on the whole ceremony for me knowing that they were forced into it and not necessarily happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #162 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This is a great post. Especially the part about the support group. When people get upset because others judge them. I get confused. Like you. I don't really care what others thing of me. People have treated me like I was mentally retarded. On many occasions. Because I sound funny. They assume I can't think. You learn not to let others take you down. Even when they send you nasty pms. Like shadowhive just did. To be honest, that sort of attitude annoys me. Why? We teach kids that bullying is unacceptable and that they shouldn't do it. Yet when its adults doing the bullying trying to get the bullies to stop is wrong and people that try are mocked for it. It wasn't nasty, just honest especially due to how frustrating this discusssion has become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #163 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Is it just to have the rights of a tradition man/woman ceremony, as a civil marriage could provide that with a few amendments to a few laws ? Is it to have some kind of revenge over the religions for calling them grievous sinners for so long ? I cant understand the need for it to be in a church, it just seems so anal (sorry no pun intended)? I would hate to be married in church knowing that secretly the priest feels I'm a sinner and the whole establishment of Christianity views me as a sinner also...it would leave a stain on the whole ceremony for me knowing that they were forced into it and not necessarily happy about it. Exactly. When you look at shadowhive's post. He is angry for what they believe. Not for what they are actually doing. For what they are doing. Is protecting themselves. Of course they wish it was illegal. They think it is an abomination in the eyes of God. God wrote it. It says it. And it doesn't just say it in Leviticus, it says it in the New Testament as well. But that's a different topic. But who is the one trying to force everyone to do it their way? Gay people have been trying to force the church to perform gay marriage. To call a civil union marriage. To change the status quo. Attacking those who don't immediately agree. Disrespecting other people's faith because their own is so malleable. It is they who are trying to force their views on others. Yet it is never seen this way. Both sides have acted poorly. I would hope this will allow each side to stop. Shoving their views down each others throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopmo Posted December 13, 2012 #164 Share Posted December 13, 2012 To be honest, that sort of attitude annoys me. Why? We teach kids that bullying is unacceptable and that they shouldn't do it. Yet when its adults doing the bullying trying to get the bullies to stop is wrong and people that try are mocked for it. It wasn't nasty, just honest especially due to how frustrating this discusssion has become. Whaaaa? so whos bullying who? i'm so lost now, poor OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #165 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Exactly. When you look at shadowhive's post. He is angry for what they believe. Not for what they are actually doing. For what they are doing. Is protecting themselves. Of course they wish it was illegal. They think it is an abomination in the eyes of God. God wrote it. It says it. And it doesn't just say it in Leviticus, it says it in the New Testament as well. But that's a different topic. But who is the one trying to force everyone to do it their way? Gay people have been trying to force the church to perform gay marriage. To call a civil union marriage. To change the status quo. Attacking those who don't immediately agree. Disrespecting other people's faith because their own is so malleable. It is they who are trying to force their views on others. Yet it is never seen this way. Both sides have acted poorly. I would hope this will allow each side to stop. Shoving their views down each others throats. The more you post the less I believe you. Honestly the level of absolute ignorance in what I've said, the level of twisting that you've actually done beggers belief. I don't know how you've fallen for the sob story of the church so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #166 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Whaaaa? so whos bullying who? i'm so lost now, poor OP When it comes to the topic of homosexuality, the church seems to be no better than a high school bully. And yet we should never treat it as one. No, the church is special. We need to protect it, we can't risk hurting its feelings. I'm sorry but Im a big believer that bullies shouldt be tolerated, be it in the playground of in adult society. Edited December 13, 2012 by shadowhive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGirl Posted December 13, 2012 #167 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This is a gross exaggeration. The West Boro Baptist Church does this. This is not representative of Christianity. People just say it is. In order to justify responding with equally grotesque behavior. are they christian, cassea? granted i was generalizing, but i was not exaggerating. you have enough on your plate with your current arguments on this thread to be jabbing at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codeblind Posted December 13, 2012 #168 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Exactly. When you look at shadowhive's post. He is angry for what they believe. Not for what they are actually doing. For what they are doing. Is protecting themselves. Of course they wish it was illegal. They think it is an abomination in the eyes of God. God wrote it. It says it. And it doesn't just say it in Leviticus, it says it in the New Testament as well. But that's a different topic. But who is the one trying to force everyone to do it their way? Gay people have been trying to force the church to perform gay marriage. To call a civil union marriage. To change the status quo. Attacking those who don't immediately agree. Disrespecting other people's faith because their own is so malleable. It is they who are trying to force their views on others. Yet it is never seen this way. Both sides have acted poorly. I would hope this will allow each side to stop. Shoving their views down each others throats. let me just quickly say I'm an atheist who was raised RC, and straight, not that that matters but I think important to judge where I'm coming from on this, I'm all for equality and I think this is for the sake of equality more than the actual need for it to be in a church, but I'm not in that position wanting a gay marriage and can only assume the reasons, it just seems so odd that Homosexuals would want to have anything to do with religion after its treated them so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #169 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) let me just quickly say I'm an atheist who was raised RC, and straight, not that that matters but I think important to judge where I'm coming from on this, I'm all for equality and I think this is for the sake of equality more than the actual need for it to be in a church, but I'm not in that position wanting a gay marriage and can only assume the reasons, it just seems so odd that Homosexuals would want to have anything to do with religion after its treated them so badly. Personally I agree. I don't understand why any self-respecting gay person would want to marry in an anti-gay church. Logic dictates that gay people wouldn't want that, that they'd only want to get married in friendly churches or civil ceremonies. Which is why I find the church's idea that theyd be forced to do even more puzzling and unelieveable. Edited December 13, 2012 by shadowhive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassea Posted December 13, 2012 #170 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) are they christian, cassea? granted i was generalizing, but i was not exaggerating. you have enough on your plate with your current arguments on this thread to be jabbing at me. An extremist sect should not be brought up as. Evidence. In a discussion about Christians. Let's consider how many Christians have show up at. Soldiers and children's funerals. As opposed to how many Gay Activists. Have shown up at churches. Hurling insults and hatred. At Catholics. This is an exaggeration. http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen2/12b/acushnet_church/index.html Edited December 13, 2012 by Cassea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #171 Share Posted December 13, 2012 An extremist sect should not be brought up as. Evidence. In a discussion about Christians. Let's consider how many Christians have show up at. Soldiers and children's funerals. As opposed to how many Gay Activists. Have shown up at churches. Hurling insults and hatred. At Catholics. This is an exaggeration. http://www.massresis...urch/index.html Personally I think the actions taken there were wrong. BUT I think the church posting that purposely put such a thing up to cause trouble. You have to wonder why else a church would put up such a message, especially since it's something that would obviously create problems, However, you're doing an indentical thing as to what you're excusing Jgirl of. Bringing up an extreme incident and trying to paint everyone as being the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGirl Posted December 13, 2012 #172 Share Posted December 13, 2012 An extremist sect should not be brought up as. Evidence. In a discussion about Christians. Let's consider how many Christians have show up at. Soldiers and children's funerals. As opposed to how many Gay Activists. Have shown up at churches. Hurling insults and hatred. At Catholics. This is an exaggeration. http://www.massresis...urch/index.html you are the one who likes to play with averages so you go ahead and figure it out i was a fundamentalist baptist for many years and i can tell you that the sect that demonstrates outside of funerals is only taking what they all believe to another more in your face level. i was commenting to another member (not you) on something they had posted. you chose to jump in with your overpunctuated attitude about something you didn't read or understand clearly. it is a fact that fundamentalist christians have tried to force their beliefs on the world in general. they try to do it every chance they get. the things i stated were not evidence as you so snottily pointed out - they were examples of christian churches/faiths/bodies/people who have shown this to be true. they don't all have to be doing it for it to be used as an example, so wave your stick elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codeblind Posted December 13, 2012 #173 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Personally I agree. I don't understand why any self-respecting gay person would want to marry in an anti-gay church. Logic dictates that gay people wouldn't want that, that they'd only want to get married in friendly churches or civil ceremonies. Which is why I find the church's idea that theyd be forced to do even more puzzling and unelieveable. It certainly is a strange one....eventually it will be passed, it has to...but can you imagine the atmosphere in church, I can picture it now a grumpy priest flying thru the ceremony, spilling wine, dropping rings, mispronouncing names..the whole nine yards it would absolutely spoil it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowhive Posted December 13, 2012 #174 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) It certainly is a strange one....eventually it will be passed, it has to...but can you imagine the atmosphere in church, I can picture it now a grumpy priest flying thru the ceremony, spilling wine, dropping rings, mispronouncing names..the whole nine yards it would absolutely spoil it for me. It will, despite their attempts to stop it. Honestly, I can picture it and all I can think of is who'd want that? I'd not want someone who disapproves of my relationship conducting the ceremony and I honestly don't know why anyone would want t it would just ruin what's meant to be a special day and make it memorable for all the wrong reasons. Edited December 13, 2012 by shadowhive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGirl Posted December 13, 2012 #175 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It will, despite their attempts to stop it. Honestly, I can picture it and all I can think of is who'd want that? I'd not want someone who disapproves of my relationship conducting the ceremony and I honestly don't know why anyone would want t it would just ruin what's meant to be a special day and make it memorable for all the wrong reasons. i guess for some it's about the fight - it might not be good for this generation or maybe not the next but hopefully they'll have paved the way for future couples who do want that to be part of their vows. i don't see why it's necessary to go to a building and have some official person get between you and your god anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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