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Karlis

Govt eyes crippling climate-control measures

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The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is ready to unleash its first wave of carbon-dioxide regulations.

Some members of Congress want to tax hydrocarbon use and carbon-dioxide emissions. Moreover, United Nations climate alarmists are trying to devise a new treaty to regulate energy use at the international level. Even one of these government actions would send shock waves through the economy. If all three are imposed (or worse, imposed in conjunction with Obamacare and other tax increases on job and wealth creators) the impacts will be devastating.

These actions are intended to increase the cost of the hydrocarbon energy that powers our economy. Yet raising the cost of transportation fuels, electricity, lighting, heating and air conditioning will raise the price of food, materials and equipment. This will severely impact the bottom line for factories, utilities, offices, farms, shops, airlines, shippers, hospitals, schools, churches, charities and government offices. The poorest families may get rebates for their increased energy costs, but institutions will not. They will be forced to reduce wages, hours and benefits, hire fewer full-time employees, lay off people, outsource operations to countries where energy costs are lower or even close their doors.

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No, really, Some members of Congress want to tax hydrocarbon use and carbon-dioxide emissions? So let me see if I've got this straight: do people really and honestly not think that these are things that we ought to be thinking about cutting down on, even if one doesn't believe in Climate change, simply because they won't last for ever and a lot of it has to be imported from countries that do not necessarily share the U.S. view of freedom & Democracy? is it just that people are too lazy to give any effort to thinking about alternatives to Fossil fuel, or is this the vested interests from the mega-Oil companies we see at work here?

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No, really, Some members of Congress want to tax hydrocarbon use and carbon-dioxide emissions? So let me see if I've got this straight: do people really and honestly not think that these are things that we ought to be thinking about cutting down on, even if one doesn't believe in Climate change, simply because they won't last for ever and a lot of it has to be imported from countries that do not necessarily share the U.S. view of freedom & Democracy? is it just that people are too lazy to give any effort to thinking about alternatives to Fossil fuel, or is this the vested interests from the mega-Oil companies we see at work here?

About the headline: Gee, what else would the government be thinking about? Economic growth? HAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

747400: You ever think that maybe, as it stands today and for the near future so far as we can see that fossil fuels are the absolute standard necessity for todays needs in all areas of production and commerce? Taxing them more and more is only going to make the cost of EVERYTHING go up for EVERYBODY. I understand you may think that's great because it will usher in a new era of green energy but you should come to the understanding that I have. That is right now we should keep using what we know how to use and use it as cheaply as possible. When the time and technology is right green energy will usurp fossil fuels and the market will naturally dictate when that happens and then the Earth will heal. Green energy may be available today but it is inefficient and expensive and not nearly capable of the potential that the worlds needs it to have. Just look at all the failed green energy companies. They can't even make something work with $500M tax payer dollars, which that in itself is another argument but lets not sidetrack. One day we will be there but it's not today and shouldn't be forced. Great things come with time and patience. Bad things happen when you hurry and have little patience. Maybe rocket technology was around in the 40's and 50's but aren't you glad they waited until the 60's to test rockets with people inside them? Just relax about it. In the mean time if we are hurting the Earth it'll be ok. There is nothing man can do to do any permanent damage to the Earth, even nuclear war.

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Oh, and if you hate mega-oil companies just wait until green energy is the standard. Do you not think there will be greedy capitalistic CEO's controlling those companies? Do you think that Shell and Exxon will just be replaced. I think they'll be the first big names in green energy once it becomes profitable.

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Oh, and if you hate mega-oil companies just wait until green energy is the standard. Do you not think there will be greedy capitalistic CEO's controlling those companies? Do you think that Shell and Exxon will just be replaced. I think they'll be the first big names in green energy once it becomes profitable.

I sure as hell hope so because I'll be making a lot of money.

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I sure as hell hope so because I'll be making a lot of money.

You working for a green company?

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He's a big-wig at BP.

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Oh, well TBH I do buy a lot of coffee and donuts from BP, a lot of gas too. BTW, my truck is well over $100 fill up so hook me up when you get rich. I've been helping you for years!

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I think it is silly to think that man can control the warming the solar system is experiencing. I don't think the solar system really has much regard for US Congressional legislation. While I agree with many remedies of the so-callerd man-made or anthropogenic global warming for reasons other than global warming, I certainly think that the "viral memetic infection" that man is causing it is just inane and sick. The entire solar system is warming up.

My recommendation for global warming:

Adapt.

Research is indicating that adaption can influence evolution in one generation.

There is free energy out there (plasma, cosmic radiation, etc. ). Let's just reach out and grab it. And repress fossil fuel usage. No one should make money on energy.

PS, I hate oil companies.

Edited by regeneratia
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The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is ready to unleash its first wave of carbon-dioxide regulations.

Some members of Congress want to tax hydrocarbon use and carbon-dioxide emissions.

Finally someone with some balls.

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Finally someone with some balls.

So you are ok with this finnishing off our economy?

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I think it is silly to think that man can control the warming the solar system is experiencing. I don't think the solar system really has much regard for US Congressional legislation. While I agree with many remedies of the so-callerd man-made or anthropogenic global warming for reasons other than global warming, I certainly think that the "viral memetic infection" that man is causing it is just inane and sick. The entire solar system is warming up.

My recommendation for global warming:

Adapt.

Research is indicating that adaption can influence evolution in one generation.

There is free energy out there (plasma, cosmic radiation, etc. ). Let's just reach out and grab it. And repress fossil fuel usage. No one should make money on energy.

PS, I hate oil companies.

Well, exactly. Rather than just saying

so far as we can see that fossil fuels are the absolute standard necessity for todays needs in all areas of production and commerce

, surely we need to be looking beyond what's so far as we can see (which, particularly for big Business, is not really very far) and planning for the time when there just isn't enough fossil fuel (enough oil, at any rate) to be the absolute standard necessity any longer? That's the whole point of what I'm saying; rather than making a big panic about it, accept that it's going to happen some time and plan for it. For now, fossil fuels are the absolute standard necessity for todays needs in all areas of production and commerce, but just to say that we shouldn't try to develop ways to reduce the dependence on it and emissions from it seems incredibly head in the sand.

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Well, exactly. Rather than just saying

, surely we need to be looking beyond what's so far as we can see (which, particularly for big Business, is not really very far) and planning for the time when there just isn't enough fossil fuel (enough oil, at any rate) to be the absolute standard necessity any longer? That's the whole point of what I'm saying; rather than making a big panic about it, accept that it's going to happen some time and plan for it. For now, fossil fuels are the absolute standard necessity for todays needs in all areas of production and commerce, but just to say that we shouldn't try to develop ways to reduce the dependence on it and emissions from it seems incredibly head in the sand.

I think we should just eliminate big business and go local for all consumer needs.

I am not into support of corporate antics in this world. I try hard to reduce their influence in my life. For example of this: I shut the cable TV down during the last presidential election, now that corporations can donate to the candidates. So how did those candidates get their message to me? That is their problem, not mine.

We, as consumers, have a choice to control the world we live in. We are indeed empowerd to do that, including being environmentally conscious. What happns tho' is that social systems try hard to disempower us with false statements and thought forms and trends. We need to take the personal power back and say, "N OT ME. I will put my money where I find it is most needed for the world I want to see." We don't need Congressional legistation for the environmental issues. We merely need to be reminded of the great power we do have to imagine better for this world, and to put money where you imagine it should go.

Edited by regeneratia
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So you are ok with this finnishing off our economy?

what? I thought the economy was already finished? So it's ok to effectively say "uncle Sam does not want to have to pay any more, so stuff everyone else, just as long as we can keep pouring cheap Oil into our cars and using these cars to drive 100 yards round the corner to the fast Food restaurant"? Again, I feel that a head is in the sand here.

Edited by 747400
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Just to correct the misrepresentation - there is no solar system warming. Any premise that is based upon the concept that the solar system is warming is false.

Only the earth is experiencing unseasonal warming.

Br Cornelius

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Well, exactly. Rather than just saying

, surely we need to be looking beyond what's so far as we can see (which, particularly for big Business, is not really very far) and planning for the time when there just isn't enough fossil fuel (enough oil, at any rate) to be the absolute standard necessity any longer? That's the whole point of what I'm saying; rather than making a big panic about it, accept that it's going to happen some time and plan for it. For now, fossil fuels are the absolute standard necessity for todays needs in all areas of production and commerce, but just to say that we shouldn't try to develop ways to reduce the dependence on it and emissions from it seems incredibly head in the sand.

I didn't say we shouldn't be looking. I'm just saying there is no need to cram todays green tech down our throats. There are green companies out there and surely some nutjob in a basement working on making something spectacular. It'll come in time. Wrecking the energy industry today will do nothing to speed up the process since every tool, machine and vehicle depends on fossil fuel in some way or another and to make the tools of research and innovation crazy expensive will not get green here any faster. We, today, are not the only answer to the future though. There will be more generations with better tech that'll usher in an era of energy that'll make oil look like caveman spears when tech is compared. Why the rush? You know in your heart the planet will heal and fossil fuels are still abundant. We need to tap more of them and keep oil prices low and our economy would boom. For instance: A sheet of 7/16" plywood, something I need a lot of all the time, at home depot cost around $4 pre-Katrina. Then gas prices went up and so did the cost of that plywood to like $7-$8 a sheet. From that point on my prices went up and so did my customers bills. When gas prices declined at the end of the Bush era the plywood went back down to $4-$5 a sheet. Since then, gas has climbed and now that same sheet of plywood cost $10.97+ tax last time I bought it. The same thing has happened with every other product on every other shelf. So how is impeding economic process going to help anybody when money is the solution to reinvesting into the future and high energy costs just take money from the future? Please don't tell me that the energy companies should eat the cost. That sounds nice but you know it isn't going to happen.

Just to correct the misrepresentation - there is no solar system warming. Any premise that is based upon the concept that the solar system is warming is false.

So what if we are warming anyways. We will adapt. People will adapt. Northern territories may be the future of agriculture and southern territories will still be producing food. Warm weather is good for everything, especially world wide food production. It isn't likely that the world will become a desert wasteland short of nuclear fallout.

Only the earth is experiencing unseasonal warming.

Br Cornelius

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Are you expecting the public to eat the costs of dealing with the consequences of climate change. Economists have calculated the costs of doing nothing about climate change will far outstrip those of investing in clean technologies.

The polluter pays principle is there to make certain that those who cause the pollution (the oil/gas companies) pay for the consequences and not the general public. This allows them the flexibility to choose the greener options which become cost competitive when all costs are accounted for and not just the costs of extraction.

Br Cornelius

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Are you expecting the public to eat the costs of dealing with the consequences of climate change. Economists have calculated the costs of doing nothing about climate change will far outstrip those of investing in clean technologies.

The polluter pays principle is there to make certain that those who cause the pollution (the oil/gas companies) pay for the consequences and not the general public. This allows them the flexibility to choose the greener options which become cost competitive when all costs are accounted for and not just the costs of extraction.

Br Cornelius

Are you expecting them not to?! How come you don't call it global warming anymore? Now that these genius' who insisted the earth was going to burn (with all the scientific evidence in the world to back them up, oh wait it was all made up) realized that's not going to happen they now call it climate change to fit any scenario the Earth can throw at them and blame it on oil companies. Seriously, you're blaming completely natural events on man based on global warming which apparently doesn't exist anymore. The Sahara was once an ocean and Antarctica was once a lush continent. Throughout time, on Earth, sh1t happens. That isn't under anyone's ability to fix or change.

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what? I thought the economy was already finished? So it's ok to effectively say "uncle Sam does not want to have to pay any more, so stuff everyone else, just as long as we can keep pouring cheap Oil into our cars and using these cars to drive 100 yards round the corner to the fast Food restaurant"? Again, I feel that a head is in the sand here.

Well that is a pretty narrow minded view of the situation. Look Im all for green energy. Im all for cleaner energy sources. Im not for commiting economic suicide over it. Stuff everyone else? If they tax carbon, everyone is going to get "stuffed". Everyone. There has to be a better way to try and implement better sources of energy, without sending everyone to the poor house. I know I cant afford to pay more for gas, heat, groceries, clothes, ect ect ect ect. I just cant. Especialy considering my health insurance was raised 3 times since 0bama care was passed. Maybe folks like yourself can afford to pay more for every single thing you have to buy. Every single thing you have to provide for your family, But this is going to seriously screw over millions of folks like myself. And I dont eat fast food.

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Are you expecting them not to?! How come you don't call it global warming anymore? Now that these genius' who insisted the earth was going to burn (with all the scientific evidence in the world to back them up, oh wait it was all made up) realized that's not going to happen they now call it climate change to fit any scenario the Earth can throw at them and blame it on oil companies. Seriously, you're blaming completely natural events on man based on global warming which apparently doesn't exist anymore. The Sahara was once an ocean and Antarctica was once a lush continent. Throughout time, on Earth, sh1t happens. That isn't under anyone's ability to fix or change.

here's a simple question - "what natural force is causing the planet to warm ?"

I need particulars to take your position seriously.

What is causing the energy imbalance at the top of the atmosphere if not Greenhouse Gases ?

No vague hand waving please - scientific precision with calculations of what portion your theory accounts for.

Good luck :tu: .

Br Cornelius

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Well that is a pretty narrow minded view of the situation. Look Im all for green energy. Im all for cleaner energy sources. Im not for commiting economic suicide over it. Stuff everyone else? If they tax carbon, everyone is going to get "stuffed". Everyone. There has to be a better way to try and implement better sources of energy, without sending everyone to the poor house. I know I cant afford to pay more for gas, heat, groceries, clothes, ect ect ect ect. I just cant. Especialy considering my health insurance was raised 3 times since 0bama care was passed. Maybe folks like yourself can afford to pay more for every single thing you have to buy. Every single thing you have to provide for your family, But this is going to seriously screw over millions of folks like myself. And I dont eat fast food.

Gas/oil is in dwindling supply. It has already gone up by three fold in the last 5years. You may not want to pay more for your energy - but if you stick with fossil fuels expect to spend an increasing proportion of your direct salary on fuel.

You will certainly get stuffed if the economy fails to divest of oil/gas as its primary source of energy. I give it about 10years at most before you will be making some very hard choices about what you spend your cash on - and you maybe learning to walk a lot more and getting used to the hot/cold.

Only forward planning can prevent these outcomes.

Br Cornelius

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Planets have seasons just like earth.

It would take a net warming of all the planets beyond seasonal variation to demonstrate a solar system warming.

There is no such trend across the solar system.

Mars has a rather dramatic feedback mechanism induced by seasonal dust storms causing the poles to warm rapidly.

Its a rather weak argument and it surprises me that even the Heartland Institute would resort to it, its strictly for the loonies.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Planets have seasons just like earth.

It would take a net warming of all the planets beyond seasonal variation to demonstrate a solar system warming.

There is no such trend across the solar system.

Mars has a rather dramatic feedback mechanism induced by seasonal dust storms causing the poles to warm rapidly.

Its a rather weak argument and it surprises me that even the Heartland Institute would resort to it, its strictly for the loonies.

Br Cornelius

So studies done by NASA are weak if they don't agree with you. OK.

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here's a simple question - "what natural force is causing the planet to warm ?"

I need particulars to take your position seriously.

What is causing the energy imbalance at the top of the atmosphere if not Greenhouse Gases ?

No vague hand waving please - scientific precision with calculations of what portion your theory accounts for.

Good luck :tu: .

Br Cornelius

I'm no climatologist so you aren't getting any of that from me but I would guess the same thing that made the planet so warm during the dinosaur age and the same thing that made it so cold during the ice age. It's called nature and there is nothing you can do to stop it. All I know is that in the 70's we were supposed to enter an ice age within 20 years and that never happened and then we were supposed to get unbearably warm from global warming and that never happened and now to save face for any possible scenario it's simply called climate change. It's a farce set forth by enviro-whackos and politicians to tax and tax and tax and scare and scare and acre to get the sheep to agree with the taxes. It always was and always will be about getting more money into government hands, here and overseas.

Gas/oil is in dwindling supply. It has already gone up by three fold in the last 5years. You may not want to pay more for your energy - but if you stick with fossil fuels expect to spend an increasing proportion of your direct salary on fuel.

You will certainly get stuffed if the economy fails to divest of oil/gas as its primary source of energy. I give it about 10years at most before you will be making some very hard choices about what you spend your cash on - and you maybe learning to walk a lot more and getting used to the hot/cold.

Only forward planning can prevent these outcomes.

Br Cornelius

you think possibly oil prices would go down, at least in America, if we could drill for more. It's said that we've got exponentially more oil on our land than all of the Middle East. Wether that's accurate or not who knows but we sure to have a lot of untapped resources and when the price of oil drops so does every conceivable thing that requires oil to produce or move from point a-b. why not do us all a favor and save us buttloads of money and create buttloads of jobs? Or is some stupid mouse, plant or bird that lives near these oil rich areas more important?
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