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Abramelin

Plants communicate using clicking sounds

63 posts in this topic

i feel bad for the cabbages, they can warn each other but do nothing about the threat. i wonder what vegetarians think about this

Well that didn't take long, only the second comment, good job. Vegetables don't have a nervous system of any kind and thus cannot feel pain. Neither can bacteria or a rock.

It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. I'm not making a personal attack, just an observation. No one is born a vegetarian. No one is born a meat eater. It's a matter of upbringing and habit, habits that can be changed.

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Very interesting, fungi has a mystical background and still has now. If somehow scientists can find out what is being said or get some information, not now but in the future, do you think we could speed up Tree growth much quicker?

Maybe we would never again chop down a tree...

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Well that didn't take long, only the second comment, good job. Vegetables don't have a nervous system of any kind and thus cannot feel pain. Neither can bacteria or a rock.

It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. I'm not making a personal attack, just an observation. No one is born a vegetarian. No one is born a meat eater. It's a matter of upbringing and habit, habits that can be changed.

It's very obvious from the posts I made that plants can feel a threat.

Pain is nothing but a way animals are being made aware their life or health is in danger.

Plants just have another system.

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Pain is nothing but a way animals are being made aware their life or health is in danger.

Plants just have another system.

I think you are confusing awareness with pain. There are different somatic senses, from wiki;

"The system reacts to diverse stimuli using different receptors: thermoreceptors, nociceptors, mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. "

Pain is sensed via nociceptors. Since plants don't have nociceptors, they don't feel pain. Yes, they can have mechano, thermo or chemo sensors, but they don't involve pain.

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what fascinates me is .. that plants may actually be Aware. ( i've always thought so, but it's not a popular notion , among people )

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I think you are confusing awareness with pain. There are different somatic senses, from wiki;

"The system reacts to diverse stimuli using different receptors: thermoreceptors, nociceptors, mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. "

Pain is sensed via nociceptors. Since plants don't have nociceptors, they don't feel pain. Yes, they can have mechano, thermo or chemo sensors, but they don't involve pain.

Plants can sense that which is harmful for them. We are animals and sense stimuli like most other animals so we cannot have the slightest idea how a plant senses something harmful. Yes, we can only know what organs, cells or tissue they sense it with, not how they "experience" it. Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts".

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Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts".

Pain has been the topic of much philosophical debate, and almost all agree that there is a subjective component of pain. By definition, this subjective component cannot be attributed to things that lack the mental capacity to interpret it.

From Stanford philosophy encyclopedia;

"Activity induced in the nociceptor and nociceptive pathways by a noxious stimulus is not pain, which is always a psychological state, even though we may well appreciate that pain most often has a proximate physical cause."

p.s. the idea that plants communicate by sound, as indicated by the title of this thread, is impossible. Plants don't have an any auditory organs and thus cannot process sound. They can of course sense vibrations.

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Pain has been the topic of much philosophical debate, and almost all agree that there is a subjective component of pain. By definition, this subjective component cannot be attributed to things that lack the mental capacity to interpret it.

From Stanford philosophy encyclopedia;

"Activity induced in the nociceptor and nociceptive pathways by a noxious stimulus is not pain, which is always a psychological state, even though we may well appreciate that pain most often has a proximate physical cause."

p.s. the idea that plants communicate by sound, as indicated by the title of this thread, is impossible. Plants don't have an any auditory organs and thus cannot process sound. They can of course sense vibrations.

You might want to read the rest of this thread before you say something is "impossible".

About pain, this is what I said:

Plants can sense that which is harmful for them. We are animals and sense stimuli like most other animals so we cannot have the slightest idea how a plant senses something harmful. Yes, we can only know what organs, cells or tissue they sense it with, not how they "experience" it. Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts".
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It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit.

.

and it's amazing how quick vegetarians are at jumping to the moral high ground.

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.

and it's amazing how quick vegetarians are at jumping to the moral high ground.

Well it's really not all that difficult. Plants don't feel pain. Plants don't suffer. That's the specific claim. My general claim goes something like this; all things being equal, a world with less pain and suffering is better than a world with more pain and suffering.

Do you consider that a contentious or provocative proposition?

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Well it's really not all that difficult. Plants don't feel pain. Plants don't suffer. That's the specific claim. My general claim goes something like this; all things being equal, a world with less pain and suffering is better than a world with more pain and suffering.

Do you consider that a contentious or provocative proposition?

You cannot be sure of that (see bolded).

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Posted in another thread, but it fits better here (it's a bit old, but ok):

RESPONSE IN THE LIVING AND NON-LIVING

BY

JAGADIS CHUNDER BOSE, M.A.(Cantab.), D.Sc.(Lond.)

PROFESSOR, PRESIDENCY COLLEGE, CALCUTTA

WITH ILLUSTRATIONS

LONGMANS, GREEN, AND CO. 39 PATERNOSTER ROW, LONDON NEW YORK AND BOMBAY

1902

CHAPTER I

THE MECHANICAL RESPONSE OF LIVING SUBSTANCES

CHAPTER II

ELECTRIC RESPONSE

CHAPTER III

ELECTRIC RESPONSE IN PLANTS—METHOD OF NEGATIVE VARIATION

CHAPTER IV

ELECTRIC RESPONSE IN PLANTS—BLOCK METHOD

CHAPTER V

PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE EFFECTS OF SINGLE STIMULUS AND OF SUPERPOSED STIMULI

CHAPTER VI

PLANT RESPONSE—ON DIPHASIC VARIATION

CHAPTER VII

PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE RELATION BETWEEN STIMULUS AND RESPONSE

CHAPTER VIII

PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE INFLUENCE OF TEMPERATURE

CHAPTER IX

PLANT RESPONSE—EFFECT OF ANÆSTHETICS AND POISONS

And lots more...

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18986/18986-h/18986-h.htm

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