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OverSword

CIA Tortured & Sodomized Terror Suspect

85 posts in this topic

From the article:

CIA agents tortured a German citizen, sodomising, shackling, and beating him, as Macedonian state police looked on, the European court of human rights said in a historic judgment released on Thursday.

In a unanimous ruling, it also found Macedonia guilty of torturing, abusing, and secretly imprisoning Khaled el-Masri, a German of Lebanese origin allegedly linked to terrorist organisations.

Masri was seized in Macedonia in December 2003 and handed over to a CIA "rendition team" at Skopje airport and secretly flown to Afghanistan.

It is the first time the court has described CIA treatment meted out to terror suspects as torture

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/dec/13/cia-tortured-sodomised-terror-suspect

Interesting that they actually do refer to it as torture when the person was innocent but just enhanced interogation otherwise.

OK, now let the justifications begin!

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And they want to enter the EU? Gimme a break... :lol:

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It is for these reasons that they hate us, NOT because of our so-called freedom.

Sad to report, but the US has become synonymous with rendition, torture, and death of innocents from drones. :no:

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It is for these reasons that they hate us, NOT because of our so-called freedom.

Sad to report, but the US has become synonymous with rendition, torture, and death of innocents from drones. :no:

So which came first the torture of terrorists or the acts of terrorism that lead to the torture of terrorists?

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So which came first the torture of terrorists or the acts of terrorism that lead to the torture of terrorists?

In the case that this post is talking about there was no terrorist, so where does this argument get you now? Gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette, right? (duh)

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So which came first the torture of terrorists or the acts of terrorism that lead to the torture of terrorists?

Well humans have tortured each others for many many centuries.

After the Nuremberg Trials, in a perhaps false claim to being civilized, we outlawed the practice. That might not have ended it, but it did allow a framework in which practitioners of the dark art could be prosecuted.

In my mind, it's not so much that the practice will be ended, but simply that those doing it be punished accordingly, such as one might find in a country that operates under the rule of law in protecting human dignity.

So, I don't know the precise answer to your rhetorical question. To get precise, some definitions would be in order.

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Surprising there has been sparse comment on this. Last time I posted a thread about torture I was amazed at the amount of people that thought it was beneficial to our safety. Now that it turns out not all of the people they put the screws to are guilty of or knowledgable of terrorism the silence is deafening.

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OS

Good people don't like to admit to themselves that their government is the world leader in torture and assassination, but sometimes they must. maybe they just don't like to talk about it?

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In the case that this post is talking about there was no terrorist, so where does this argument get you now? Gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette, right? (duh)

Sorry you said the reason "they" hate us. I assumed the "they" were terrorists. So did we torture this guy before or after 9/11? Before and you will have a point. After, not so much.

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Sorry you said the reason "they" hate us. I assumed the "they" were terrorists. So did we torture this guy before or after 9/11? Before and you will have a point. After, not so much.

It's nowhere near that simple....

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And, of course, the Eurpoean Court of Human Rights has never been wrong before

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Surprising there has been sparse comment on this. Last time I posted a thread about torture I was amazed at the amount of people that thought it was beneficial to our safety. Now that it turns out not all of the people they put the screws to are guilty of or knowledgable of terrorism the silence is deafening.

Well, I for one think the lines of what we were discussing as "torture" have been blurred considerably by this story. Let us compare apples to apples, my friend. We were discussing sleep deprivation as form of "torture" not sodomy and beating. As for the justification, what in the world would make you think that most people that agree with enhanced interrogation would lump sodomy and beating into the mix and be okay with it?

If this is completely true then it is very sad event that hopefully wasn't repeated. But to draw justification from this as if this somehow "makes" your argument is a stretch under any microscope. Nice try though.

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Sorry you said the reason "they" hate us. I assumed the "they" were terrorists. So did we torture this guy before or after 9/11? Before and you will have a point. After, not so much.

So the torture of innocent people is fine if it occured post 9/11? Then I hope they torture you to determine if you know something or not. You won't mind will you?

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Since when do we sodomize people ? I doubt there is much of the population that condones that.

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Well, I for one think the lines of what we were discussing as "torture" have been blurred considerably by this story. Let us compare apples to apples, my friend. We were discussing sleep deprivation as form of "torture" not sodomy and beating. As for the justification, what in the world would make you think that most people that agree with enhanced interrogation would lump sodomy and beating into the mix and be okay with it?

If this is completely true then it is very sad event that hopefully wasn't repeated. But to draw justification from this as if this somehow "makes" your argument is a stretch under any microscope. Nice try though.

And you know that I'm referring to simple sleep deprivation how??? BTW staying awake past five days can be fatal. Nice try though. :innocent:

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So which came first the torture of terrorists or the acts of terrorism that lead to the torture of terrorists?

Does it really matter? It's certainly a vicious cycle.

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And, of course, the Eurpoean Court of Human Rights has never been wrong before

At least the European Courts have the courage to stand for human dignity.

American Courts certainly do not, though the legislators have led the way, and that makes it difficult for the courts, but I digress.

Our courts are silent, for the most part, and deny standing to any and all.

It used to be that THIS country was the one that stood tall for the common man. Not no mo'. :no:

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And you know that I'm referring to simple sleep deprivation how??? BTW staying awake past five days can be fatal. Nice try though. :innocent:

No, you just made a typical blanket statement and I simply told you that you were incorrect. Go back and look at the thread.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=233373&hl=

BTW, people can stay awake longer than that and live....who woulda thunk it.

Assumptions galore as before

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No, you just made a typical blanket statement and I simply told you that you were incorrect. Go back and look at the thread.

http://www.unexplain...topic=233373=

BTW, people can stay awake longer than that and live....who woulda thunk it.

Assumptions galore as before

People live after being flogged. People live after being raped and otherwise assaulted. People can live without food or water for a certain period.

The difference sir, is when such measures are taken by the state or any other third party, it is wrong. It is illegal. That so many are willing to accept such assault by the state is an excellent insight into why our society today has lost its way in moral terms. Its moral compass is spinning.

Is that what Mr. Justice Brandeis was talking about in his Olmstead dissenting opinion? "For good or for ill, it (the government) teaches the whole people by its example."

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People live after being flogged. People live after being raped and otherwise assaulted. People can live without food or water for a certain period.

The difference sir, is when such measures are taken by the state or any other third party, it is wrong. It is illegal. That so many are willing to accept such assault by the state is an excellent insight into why our society today has lost its way in moral terms. Its moral compass is spinning.

Is that what Mr. Justice Brandeis was talking about in his Olmstead dissenting opinion? "For good or for ill, it (the government) teaches the whole people by its example."

Yeah, and people have lived after a building has fallen on them....I can make the same responses. The response was to Oversword and his ever changing line of assumptions that follow his questions. The "deafening silence" is because he is comparing apples to oranges and then making his "case" based on those assumptions.

As for morality, one groups morals is possibly anothers toilet paper, sir. We can debate morality but when both claim the high ground, who is right? I never claimed that the story and the actions within were justified. But to act as if all enhanced interrogation techniques are in the same category as sodomy, you are taking a true leap of faith.

And the flip side of your quote is that the people teach the government by election.

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And you know that I'm referring to simple sleep deprivation how??? BTW staying awake past five days can be fatal. Nice try though. :innocent:

Yeah... right...

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Yeah, and people have lived after a building has fallen on them....I can make the same responses. The response was to Oversword and his ever changing line of assumptions that follow his questions. The "deafening silence" is because he is comparing apples to oranges and then making his "case" based on those assumptions.

As for morality, one groups morals is possibly anothers toilet paper, sir. We can debate morality but when both claim the high ground, who is right? I never claimed that the story and the actions within were justified. But to act as if all enhanced interrogation techniques are in the same category as sodomy, you are taking a true leap of faith.

And the flip side of your quote is that the people teach the government by election.

I can tell from your cartoon character that I'm not supposed to take you seriously. Your rhetoric goes right along with the cartoon--some kind of moral midget having a snit fit.

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I can tell from your cartoon character that I'm not supposed to take you seriously. Your rhetoric goes right along with the cartoon--some kind of moral midget having a snit fit.

Well, I can tell from your response that I can do the very same to you, sir.

What rhetoric am I spouting, by the way? I ask this only because, normally, when someone starts getting as defensive as you and starts throwing little insults around that means they have nothing else to add to the conversation. Hmmmm, I wonder what is coming next.....

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Sodomizing someone as torture?

Who in their right mind would perform sodomy as a torture?

" hey, I know lets try this"........Really?

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Torture, in any form, does not work and does not lead to reliable information. This has been know for many, many years, yet still it continues...

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