U.S. Fire Arms laws and regulations

[aztek]

What do you mean by 'legal purposes'? Why shouldn't it be 'hard' to obtain a firearm?

legal purpose, hunting target shooting\self\home\property defence.it should not be hard, cuz making it harder, does't change a thing. we tried it.

Edited December 14, 2012 by aztek

[aztek]

Funny fact, no US Citizen has the right to own a firearm. The second admendment apears to be directed towards members of the National Guard or the Army Reserve (both of which can be considered Well Regulated and Organized Militias.

~Thanato

actually it is compleate opposite, read up early pages in this thread, someone explained it already.

[aztek]

I did.

Got gap?

no you didn't. you flipped the blame. get well soon.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Funny fact, no US Citizen has the right to own a firearm. The second admendment apears to be directed towards members of the National Guard or the Army Reserve (both of which can be considered Well Regulated and Organized Militias.

~Thanato

this will help think of the Bill of Rigths as the Bill of Limitations. in that we as american citizens are not granted rights from the goverment(we have them already) and the first 10 ammendments pointed out the rights the goverment couldn't infringe on.

Edited December 14, 2012 by MiskatonicGrad

[RavenHawk]

We already have enough gun laws on the books and that doesn’t stop the killing. Even if you take away all the guns, the creative mind still bent on killing will find a way to do so, so we’ll have to take away all the knives, bow and arrows, cars, etc. The first thing that we need to realize is that there is no guarantee in life. One needs to be prepared to die every day. Is it any worse to die from a crazy person with a gun or a car accident? This is a violent world, we should embrace death. Once we get beyond that, then we can truly face this problem.

I said the following in another thread – I should have read this thread first  The reason that we see more and more gun crimes is that more and more Americans are becoming Takers. And by doing so they renege on their Rights and Responsibilities. And because of that, these would-be killers feel that they are victims. How do you fix that? The only way I know how is to empower them in their Rights and Responsibilities. We need bring back into the schools, teaching that there are consequences to your actions.

Now if we are all forced to purchase Obamacare, then why not force everyone to purchase a gun and be required to take live fire combat training?? That may not be smart but parents that own guns can certainly teach their children how to respect firearms. In boot camp, we would sleep with our rifles. Parents could have their children do the same for a week and then take them to a firing range and actually experience the effect of firing one. But following up on the lead thought in this paragraph, if more and more adults that want to carry a firearm (concealed or not) anywhere (courthouse, aircraft, etc), then they need to qualify in proper use and live fire combat training. We all need to be prepared and equip to deal with life.

[aztek]

i agree but before they raise their kids to respect the gun, they should first rase the kid period, not let school\streets do it, and second respect parents, cuz we have shortage of that now. kids have no respect for parents, and call 911 on them , if they are being diciplined\punished. no wonder more kids now grow up to be self centered, arogant jerks. what do you expect from society like that.

[RavenHawk]

Another aspect of what is going on is that we are experiencing the Earth changes as we approach the Winter Solstice. I’m not saying that the world will come to an end but we are seeing a change happen. The Dark Energy is growing and these shooters are the more sensitive ones or are the mine canaries in this event. And Takers are the more sensitive ones. Those that are aware will see that there is something to this because they see other craziness going on in the world.

[Dredimus]

You see how great the "War On Drugs" is going... wait till its the "War on Guns".

[The Caspian Hare]

I'm really tired of being regarded as an accomplice to murder every time something like this happens. But emotions are high, everyone is rabid and focusing solely on guns. There are like 300 million guns in this country, a guy who wants to do something terrible will probably get one.

I'd accept this: hire an armed, well-trained officer at as many schools as possible and use a federal tax increase to fund it.

Edited December 14, 2012 by The Russian Hare

[The Caspian Hare]

And where is the well organized part (apart from the fact the fact that the above was not created to arm citizens but to draft them to military service)?

That misses the point. The militia was already in existence and included essentially all able-bodied men.

Now, you can argue that you wouldn't want a lunatic to be a member of the militia and by extension own a gun. That still supposes that the default position is people can own guns, a right to be taken away only with due process of some kind.

[aztek]

I'I'd accept this: hire an armed, well-trained officer at as many schools as possible and use a federal tax increase to fund it.

not sure that will work, fort hood shooter had no problem killing 13 and wonding 29 trained soldiers, inside army base. and he only had 1 handgun, not assult rifle.

[+and-then]

I believe that anyone who wants to purchase a gun should be required to take a basic safety course prior to taking possession. But the fees that would be added to the purchase price should be used for the purpose only of providing educators for that task. IOW - no extended waiting because of not being able to schedule a class. Once the class has been verified to have been completed then any info gathered on the owners should be deleted. This would only cover new gun sales. No rights should be infringed for people desiring to buy or sell individually. I fear that this tragedy will greatly harm the second amendment rights of citizens of the US. I will not argue this with anyone here now or in future. I have never harmed nor would I ever think to harm anyone with a firearm who wasn't actively trying to kill me or a family member and my right to protect myself and them trumps the insane actions of others over which I have no control. Government regulation is obviously not the answer here.

[The Caspian Hare]

not sure that will work, fort hood shooter had no problem killing 13 and wonding 29 trained soldiers, inside army base. and he only had 1 handgun, not assult rifle.

That is true but remember that stateside most soldiers don't walk around armed, issued guns are kept in the arms room and privately-owned ones cannot be carried. Usually only the MP's on duty are armed at bases inside CONUS.

[Drayno]

The second amendment entitles one with enumerated rights - the rights to individually own a firearm, or to use said firearm in a collective militia. It does not designate specifically that if you are not in a militia, you cannot bare arms. People have the right to privately and legally own firearms for the express purpose of overthrowing an unjust government, and to protect the livelihood of oneself and one's private property.

[Gunn]

We already have enough gun laws on the books and that doesn't stop the killing. Even if you take away all the guns, the creative mind still bent on killing will find a way to do so, so we'll have to take away all the knives, bow and arrows, cars, etc. The first thing that we need to realize is that there is no guarantee in life. One needs to be prepared to die every day. Is it any worse to die from a crazy person with a gun or a car accident? This is a violent world, we should embrace death. Once we get beyond that, then we can truly face this problem.

I said the following in another thread – I should have read this thread first  The reason that we see more and more gun crimes is that more and more Americans are becoming Takers. And by doing so they renege on their Rights and Responsibilities. And because of that, these would-be killers feel that they are victims. How do you fix that? The only way I know how is to empower them in their Rights and Responsibilities. We need bring back into the schools, teaching that there are consequences to your actions.

Now if we are all forced to purchase Obamacare, then why not force everyone to purchase a gun and be required to take live fire combat training?? That may not be smart but parents that own guns can certainly teach their children how to respect firearms. In boot camp, we would sleep with our rifles. Parents could have their children do the same for a week and then take them to a firing range and actually experience the effect of firing one. But following up on the lead thought in this paragraph, if more and more adults that want to carry a firearm (concealed or not) anywhere (courthouse, aircraft, etc), then they need to qualify in proper use and live fire combat training. We all need to be prepared and equip to deal with life.

Another aspect of what is going on is that we are experiencing the Earth changes as we approach the Winter Solstice. I'm not saying that the world will come to an end but we are seeing a change happen. The Dark Energy is growing and these shooters are the more sensitive ones or are the mine canaries in this event. And Takers are the more sensitive ones. Those that are aware will see that there is something to this because they see other craziness going on in the world.

That's and endless propaganda argument that is going nowhere, lady. About the Takers, the 47 percent or whatever you want to name people who don't have much as you do and are not independent, depend on the government, as you say. And it's not winning the conservatives very many elections. Don't you think it's time to change your arguments into something that appeals more to the masses? Seriously, your not winning the hearts and minds of most people with those same ol' lame arguments. Don't you see that? Right now all they're hearing is: BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! if...they even take the time to read what you have to say. I suspect some of them even have you on their ignore list, on this website.

Try to understand what I'm getting at here and for godsakes, change your political arguments. Because it's not working.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Purifier

[Drayno]

That's and endless propaganda argument that is going nowhere, lady. About the Takers, the 47 percent or whatever you want to name people who don't have much as you do and are not independent, depend on the government, as you say. And it's not winning the conservatives very many elections. Don't you think it's time to change your arguments into something that appeals more to the masses? Seriously, your not winning the hearts and minds of most people with those same ol' lame arguments. Don't you see that? Right now all they're hearing is: BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! if...they even take the time to read what you have to say. I suspect some of them even have you on their ignore list, on this website.

Try to understand what I'm getting at here and for godsakes, change your political arguments. Because it's not working.

He shouldn't have to change his political arguments. He has his own political beliefs.

Do you want to know why he has those beliefs, and can say them without being persecuted?

Because people with guns protect us from the potential tyranny of a government that would want its population disarmed.

People should stand with what the believe in, even if the liberal media says it's wrong.

[+ouija ouija]

That's and endless propaganda argument that is going nowhere, lady. About the Takers, the 47 percent or whatever you want to name people who don't have much as you do and are not independent, depend on the government, as you say. And it's not winning the conservatives very many elections. Don't you think it's time to change your arguments into something that appeals more to the masses? Seriously, your not winning the hearts and minds of most people with those same ol' lame arguments. Don't you see that? Right now all they're hearing is: BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! if...they even take the time to read what you have to say. I suspect some of them even have you on their ignore list, on this website.

Try to understand what I'm getting at here and for godsakes, change your political arguments. Because it's not working.

Whoa there! Just because you are tired of what Ravenhawk has to say doesn't mean to say that others are. I haven't come across his/her opinions before and I think there's an element of truth in them. As for telling someone to change their political arguments, well that's ludicrous!

[The Caspian Hare]

Viewing things from this side of the 'pond'(UK), it seems clear to me that US citizens are prepared to put up with this kind of occurrence once in a while, just as long as they all get to keep their guns.

Well, the way I look at it is that the right to own a gun is important to being a free citizen. And I am sure the police could stop lots of crimes if we took away some other rights. I wouldn't want the government able to search anybody's home without cause, for example.

When guns are highly-restricted like they are in many countries you might have trouble imagining why anybody would want one and be fearful of anybody who owns one. But in the US guns are very common and a lot of people take the right to own one seriously, including me.

[Gunn]

He shouldn't have to change his political arguments. He has his own political beliefs.

Do you want to know why he has those beliefs, and can say them without being persecuted?

Because people with guns protect us from the potential tyranny of a government that would want its population disarmed.

People should stand with what the believe in, even if the liberal media says it's wrong.

I think we're talking about two different things here, Drayno. I'm talking about the her continuous effort of her political arguments about the TAKERS as she calls them, that she trying to subtly insert into other politcal arguments, in this case...U.S. firearms and regulations, which has nothing, if very little, to do with what she calls "Takers"

BTW, I'm against gun control. Don't see that it would do any good.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Purifier

[Gunn]

Whoa there! Just because you are tired of what Ravenhawk has to say doesn't mean to say that others are. I haven't come across his/her opinions before and I think there's an element of truth in them. As for telling someone to change their political arguments, well that's ludicrous!

True, Ouija...and I stand corrected in your case and probably a few more. But the problem is, it's not working is my point. Or else Romney would of been President now. Our nation is going in a different direction and consertive propaganda these days, is not really helping.

[Drayno]

I think we're talking about two different things here, Drayno. I'm talking about the her continuous effort of her political arguments about the TAKERS as she calls them, that she trying to subtly insert into other politcal arguments, in this case...U.S. firearms and regulations, which has nothing, if very little, to do with what she calls "Takers"

BTW, I'm against gun control. Don't see that it would do any good.

My apologies for misinterpreting your post. It can often happen on the internet.

Either way, I am against gun control as well.

[Jeremiah65]

What's your real feelings Q-mark? Aren't you ex-Military or involved with the military? Would you rather see a nation incapable of defending themselves against foreign invaders or intelligent people with firearms?

I think...and man this is going to tick off some of the right...that in order to own a firearm, you must be trained and certified in it's use. You have to get a license to drive a car...another dangerous implement...why not a firearm.

I was raised on a farm...I had my own gun at age 12...a .410 shotgun for squirrel and rabbit hunting. BUT! Our local 4-H group along with the Dept of Natural resources (The game wardens) offered summer classes on shooting and gun safety. I was not allowed to use my gun or go hunting until I took the classes...and this was coming up in a family of hunters and shooters where I had been around them my entire life. I have since taken many shooting classes for different types of firearms. Not because I didn't know how they worked or how to use them but to be a little better with them...and a little smarter.

It starts with education. Teaching people what they (the firearms) do...how to use them and...most important...that once you point and pull the trigger, it is done....you cannot "undo" that...you cannot hit the restart button and go back one level of the game...it is done and it is final.

I can understand the cry for the regulation of certain firearms and I can completely understand the push back. The point of a "well armed" militia is to be able to stand ground...if the "enemy" is overwhelmingly equipped...you don't have a chance. So...many have wanted to keep the door open for assault/military style weaponry. I am somewhat against this...in a way. I see how they are mis-used but I understand the rationality of why they cannot be taken off the table for citizen ownership. You don't want to bring a knife to a gun fight.

But...as a hunter and a tracker for years (including bow hunting and camouflage)...I would not want me in the woods with a Winchester Model 70 30-06 or Weatherby mark 7 7mm magnum and a 3x9 scope putting the crosshairs one me...especially within 500 yards.

The point there was...the most dangerous of us are not the one that can spray the most lead...the most dangerous of all is the "sniper".

Edited December 14, 2012 by Jeremiah65

[MiskatonicGrad]

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So was the Connecticut shooter part of a well regulated militia?

[Gunn]

My apologies for misinterpreting your post. It can often happen on the internet.

Either way, I am against gun control as well.

No problem, Drayno. I've done it too. BTW, I think there are nearly 350 U.S. Militia groups in the U.S. now, who totally agree with both of us. No worries, man.