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dreamland

Secret Caves under the Pyramids

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http://hdbui.blogspot.com/

Look at the image at the top of the page. You can see that right under it he specifically forbids

anyone from adding the five steps. I'm not the one who doesn't like the facts. It's the status quo

that doesn't like the fact that this is a five step pyramid. I've got the picture right here and would

post it in a heart beat except I'm confident it's forbidden specifically. So if you want to see it then

you have to draw your own. I would hurry though as I expect this information to be removed from

the net altogether since everyone is afraid of the pyramid and afraid of the truth. There are no

ramps and they lifted each stone one step at a time as proven by the facts. They did not have to

use ramps and they didn't use ramps.

G2 used to be called "the Great Pyramid". The difference in size is not great.

I have a copy of the densitogram and I've checked out your 81' 3" claim per step, quite a while back. THEY DON'T MATCH. They do exactly what I said they do. They slowly spiral counter-clockwise from base to peak. You really shot yourself in the foot when you claimed they were at 81' 3" intervals.

G2 was never called "the Great Pyramid" by any elementary, middle school, high school, college or university I've ever been in or visited. And I've lived in at least 12 different states and 3 times in Europe. Must be a local thing for you Hoosier's.

cormac

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I have a copy of the densitogram and I've checked out your 81' 3" claim per step, quite a while back. THEY DON'T MATCH. They do exactly what I said they do. They slowly spiral counter-clockwise from base to peak. You really shot yourself in the foot when you claimed they were at 81' 3" intervals.

They are plainly visible even if you don't draw them in.

Are you looking at the picture on top of the page?

http://hdbui.blogspot.com/

G2 was never called "the Great Pyramid" by any elementary, middle school, high school, college or university I've ever been in or visited. And I've lived in at least 12 different states and 3 times in Europe. Must be a local thing for you Hoosier's.

It was called the Great Pyramid in olden times. It's only in the last few centuries that the term

has been applied to G1. I'm told that if you're standing on the plateau that an optical illusion

makes G2 appear larger.

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They are plainly visible even if you don't draw them in.

Are you looking at the picture on top of the page?

http://hdbui.blogspot.com/

It was called the Great Pyramid in olden times. It's only in the last few centuries that the term

has been applied to G1. I'm told that if you're standing on the plateau that an optical illusion

makes G2 appear larger.

Yes and it shows exactly what I said.

That's because the base of G2 sits at a slightly higher elevation.

cormac

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Yes and it shows exactly what I said.

...And just as I said there are far more lines defining a five step pyramid than any ramp.

There are 51 lines supporting a five step pyramid with only a few that are inconsistent with

this interpretation. This, of course, includes the half steps and regular partial steps. There

are only three bands supporting the concept of ramps and one that goes the wrong way. If

these lines are supporting ramps as you believe then how do you accoiuntb for the green

band on the bottom half way up that runs the wrong direction. Surely you are supposing

that they got tired of dragging them up hill so dragged them down hill for a while!!!

What will be you position when internal ramps are disproven?

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you guys are just trying to make a car using only screwdrivers,

you need more than just screwdrivers to put a car together just as you need more than ramps only, ropes only, wooden sleds only, or people only, to stack up a pyramid, any pyramid, or any other megalithic construction for that matter.

To know the know how, from stone on quarry to stone in it's place in the structure, every step of the way.

No CGI trickery.

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...And just as I said there are far more lines defining a five step pyramid than any ramp.

There are 51 lines supporting a five step pyramid with only a few that are inconsistent with

this interpretation. This, of course, includes the half steps and regular partial steps. There

are only three bands supporting the concept of ramps and one that goes the wrong way. If

these lines are supporting ramps as you believe then how do you accoiuntb for the green

band on the bottom half way up that runs the wrong direction. Surely you are supposing

that they got tired of dragging them up hill so dragged them down hill for a while!!!

What will be you position when internal ramps are disproven?

If you're referring to the PT, don't. I'm not interested in another reinterpretation of a religious text for Unas that you want to believe was a construction manual. :rolleyes:

The green portion, considering where it comes in, could just as well have been an outward progression of blocks from where the Queens/Kings chambers and associated granite had been laid. All of which would follow the direction of the ramp/incline around to the top. Perhaps they changed the method/spacing of block laying starting with the green area. BTW, the highest candy-cane colored turn in the northeast corner of Bui's picture is at the right level for the opening the Brier found at roughly the 270 feet elevation mark on the GP. They wouldn't have completed one level before starting the next. Someone or ones would have been ahead at some point to start the next level. Nothing in this suggests a 5-step pyramid. At best, it's a hodge-podge of methods.

cormac

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you guys are just trying to make a car using only screwdrivers,

you need more than just screwdrivers to put a car together just as you need more than ramps only, ropes only, wooden sleds only, or people only, to stack up a pyramid, any pyramid, or any other megalithic construction for that matter.

To know the know how, from stone on quarry to stone in it's place in the structure, every step of the way.

No CGI trickery.

Not me. But at some point on your car a screwdriver was used. Even if a robot put the screw in. But I can safely say that there was no geyser that lifted the motor and put it in your car for you. :lol:

cormac

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Not me. But at some point on your car a screwdriver was used. Even if a robot put the screw in. But I can safely say that there was no geyser that lifted the motor and put it in your car for you. :lol:

cormac

the geysers were common during pee pee breaks, I wonder if the top level workers just let it flow down the sides or just sprinkles off the legdes...

maybe that's the "rain" !!!

:unsure2:

Edited by third_eye

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If you're referring to the PT, don't. I'm not interested in another reinterpretation of a religious text for Unas that you want to believe was a construction manual. :rolleyes:

The green portion, considering where it comes in, could just as well have been an outward progression of blocks from where the Queens/Kings chambers and associated granite had been laid. All of which would follow the direction of the ramp/incline around to the top. Perhaps they changed the method/spacing of block laying starting with the green area. BTW, the highest candy-cane colored turn in the northeast corner of Bui's picture is at the right level for the opening the Brier found at roughly the 270 feet elevation mark on the GP. They wouldn't have completed one level before starting the next. Someone or ones would have been ahead at some point to start the next level. Nothing in this suggests a 5-step pyramid. At best, it's a hodge-podge of methods.

cormac

If you're referring to the PT, don't. I'm not interested in another reinterpretation of a religious text for Unas that you want to believe was a construction manual. :rolleyes:

The green portion, considering where it comes in, could just as well have been an outward progression of blocks from where the Queens/Kings chambers and associated granite had been laid. All of which would follow the direction of the ramp/incline around to the top. Perhaps they changed the method/spacing of block laying starting with the green area. BTW, the highest candy-cane colored turn in the northeast corner of Bui's picture is at the right level for the opening the Brier found at roughly the 270 feet elevation mark on the GP. They wouldn't have completed one level before starting the next. Someone or ones would have been ahead at some point to start the next level. Nothing in this suggests a 5-step pyramid. At best, it's a hodge-podge of methods.

No, I don't mean the PT. I mean there are 51 lines created by the density changes that

support the interpretation that it's a five step pyramid and only three bands (-1 band) that

supports the concept of ramps. That makes the score 51 to 2 in my favor. There are no

ramps in this scan.

I think the white area you're looking at isd to high for Houdin's "room". Don't forget, too,

that white is higher density than green.

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you guys are just trying to make a car using only screwdrivers,

you need more than just screwdrivers to put a car together just as you need more than ramps only, ropes only, wooden sleds only, or people only, to stack up a pyramid, any pyramid, or any other megalithic construction for that matter.

To know the know how, from stone on quarry to stone in it's place in the structure, every step of the way.

No CGI trickery.

I don't know what GCI is.

There's only one single answer to how they lifted the stones for the great pyramids. Of course,

they used innumerable means but this is beside the point. All the evidence quite clearly says that

a single method was used to do the bulk of the lifting and that that method was not ramps. The evi-

denceis quite clear that the bulk of the pyramid was pulled straight up the side one step at a time.

They needed lots of tools and used lots of methods but only pulling them up the side is the correct

answer to how they lifted the stones to builsd the great pyramids.

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the geysers were common during pee pee breaks, I wonder if the top level workers just let it flow down the sides or just sprinkles off the legdes...

maybe that's the "rain" !!!

Nothing lifted was wasted. They were well aware that organic material in the "wdn.t-offering" contributed

to its ability to support plant life. This was "herb hill" and plants needed more than just the ballast to grow.

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from full text of heredotus

14. And this saying of the Egyptians about the

Greeks was true enough. But now let me show what

is the case of the Egyptians themselves : if (as I have

already said) the country below Memphis for it is

this which rises should increase in height in the

same degree as formerly, will not the Egyptians who

dwell in it go hungry, there being no rain in their

country and the river being unable to inundate their

fields ? Now, indeed, there are no men, neither in the

rest of Egypt, nor in the whole world, who gain from

the soil with so little labour ; they have not the

toil of breaking up the land with the plough, nor of

hoeing, nor of any other work which other men do

to get them a crop ; the river rises of itself, waters

the fields, and then sinks back again ; thereupon

each man sows his field and sends swine into it to

tread down the seed, and waits for the harvest;

then he makes the swine to thresh his grain, and

so garners it.

So the A.E's were masters of dodging hard work perhaps. ( who in there right mind wouldn't be?). I can imagine those bumpkins discussing it - "No mate, lets do it the hard way", yea right...

What about John Cadman Cladking? do you think theres anything in his Ram pump theory? (I'm sure I've seen somewhere like AboveTS where you've had a discussion on the subject?). to me, the weakness was all those Km of underground channels from the lakes that he theorizes about, but the moat around the G.P. is fairly well established isn't it? But if there were natural underground streams, perhaps there might be something to it...

Not trying to knock the guyser theory, but I didn't here of it anywhere else.

Edited by shanka boom

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from full text of heredotus

14. And this saying of the Egyptians about the

Greeks was true enough. But now let me show what

is the case of the Egyptians themselves : if (as I have

already said) the country below Memphis for it is

this which rises should increase in height in the

same degree as formerly, will not the Egyptians who

dwell in it go hungry, there being no rain in their

country and the river being unable to inundate their

fields ? Now, indeed, there are no men, neither in the

rest of Egypt, nor in the whole world, who gain from

the soil with so little labour ; they have not the

toil of breaking up the land with the plough, nor of

hoeing, nor of any other work which other men do

to get them a crop ; the river rises of itself, waters

the fields, and then sinks back again ; thereupon

each man sows his field and sends swine into it to

tread down the seed, and waits for the harvest;

then he makes the swine to thresh his grain, and

so garners it.

So the A.E's were masters of dodging hard work perhaps. ( who in there right mind wouldn't be?). I can imagine those bumpkins discussing it - "No mate, lets do it the hard way", yea right...

What about John Cadman Cladking? do you think theres anything in his Ram pump theory? (I'm sure I've seen somewhere like AboveTS where you've had a discussion on the subject?). to me, the weakness was all those Km of underground channels from the lakes that he theorizes about, but the moat around the G.P. is fairly well established isn't it? But if there were natural underground streams, perhaps there might be something to it...

Not trying to knock the guyser theory, but I didn't here of it anywhere else.

I'm impressed by a lot of the alternative theories on the great pyramids and think many of them

hold a piece of the puzzle. The pump theory is especially attractive but not as well evidenced as

I'd like to see to say it is likely true. The same goes for locks and the hydraulic theories in general.

I don't believe geysers are any better evidenced than most of these except I do believe this is or

might be the intended meaning of the PT. There is water in evidence and there are no other good

theories of how it got there.

I believe that something needs to be nailed down. Some fact must be established so everything

can be anchored. I believe the best bet to establish anything without interpretation and assumption

is to determine how the stones were lifted and when this is known everything will just fall into place.

The means to do this is just to do the simple testing and measurements as were done by Petrie but

with 21st century instruments. This will provide a wide range of information which will allow the various

methods to be ruled in or out until only a single possibility remains. All these theories are falsifiable,

including ramps, but rather than doing the science they are searching for ramps.

There are other means of lifting water using the weight of water using Christopher Jordan's "babylon-

ian pump" or even counterweights full of water to lift water to greater altitudes. There are also num-

erous mechanical methods the Egyptians might have used to lift water with human or other power. Jor-

dans new book also proposes CO2 geysers were employed;

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/276831

Whether they explore these caves or not it is likely there will be other hydraulic theories simply because

water is the most harnessable force for the ancients to have used and it is well evidenced on site. There

is a great deal of work going on on several fronts to show this water was instrumental to building and that

its existence was widespread on the plateau and all the places the great pyramids were built. While gey-

sers are obviously a most unusual way to obtain water the fact is that almost all others can be ruled out

by various facts. There just aren't many ways that water can appear at these pyramid bases and even

fewer that would take it as much as 81' 3" over the base.

I actually believe that in twenty years people will consider that geysers here are obvious and that it was

only superstition and inertia that caused people to believe it could have been done with ramps. Horapollo

said that the ancient Egyptians believed water sprayed out of the ground. It is impossible for water to have

sprayed out of the ground anywhere in the lower Nile delta so if the ancients were correct then it must have

occured up outside of the valley. The water had to go through caves in order to spray out of the ground.

The powers that be could disprove geysers tomorrow if they choose but don't look for it to happen because

any real data being gathered will sup[port geysers and deny ramps just as the current dig at Khentkawes

Town is doing. This isn't going to stop because ramps are debunked and and the contention only ramps

could have been used is disproven.

There's good reason that geysers aren't popular; they are strange, rare, and absurd. But stranger things

are real. Just because they are rare doesn't mean they can't exist. They aren't so absurd if you take the

builders and their work at face value. They didn't think like us and that isn't weird or absurd, it just seems

like it.

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Cladking... try to solve the mystery of coral castle ( www.coralcastle.com) before you and many others will move to pyramids of giza subject. I mention coral castle in many places,but most of members just ignore it. Man who build coral castle new the secret of the pyramids. Question to everyone: How can you solve the mystery of the pyramids, if you can't even solve the mystery of coral castle. Thank you.

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Cladking... try to solve the mystery of coral castle ( www.coralcastle.com) before you and many others will move to pyramids of giza subject. I mention coral castle in many places,but most of members just ignore it. Man who build coral castle new the secret of the pyramids. Question to everyone: How can you solve the mystery of the pyramids, if you can't even solve the mystery of coral castle. Thank you.

EDWARD LEEDSKALNIN is not a popular character among the academics. Being a low educated prospect telling the "academics" they're wrong about magnetism kinda made him a laughing stock in the hallowed halls of higher education. Still I am sure Coral Castle has something to offer to common or basic knowledge, the ancient people does things in a different way and achieved greatness arguably greater than all that "modern" practical know how has so far, one thing for sure is that they buildt things to last, be everlasting and eternal. In many instances they succeeded in achieving that. They may not be regarded as having "modern" intelligence but their wisdom is undeniable.

Mr Wallington has proven the point more than adequately.

another site i recommend --> http://forgottenknowledge.net/

Learn something old ...

You'll need some nothing to lose undergrads to start something, I mean it should be much more worthwhile than a thesis on the lyrics of 'Madonna the recording artiste.'

The state got to recognise it as something more than a curios tourist trap, but then many are greedily eyeing the plot of land it's on, it's worth a lot of dollars to a lot of people.

They've been itching to run Coral Castle into the ground for a long time ...

~edit~ typonese

Edited by third_eye

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I find Coral Castle of interest only because the guy did it alone and still accomplished something amazing. Do I believe that he used magnetism or some other nincompoopery of that kind? No, I do not. What I do believe, is that he found another method of accomplishing it, old or new, but of a more conventional kind.

Like Wally Wallington, this man has demonstrated that he can lift a Stonehenge-sized pillar weighing 22,000 lbs and moved a barn over 300 feet. What makes this so special is that he does it using only himself, gravity, and his incredible ingenuity to accomplish such a feat.

See for yourself.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/28279/Building_Stonehenge___This_Man_can_Move_Anything/

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I find Coral Castle of interest only because the guy did it alone and still accomplished something amazing. Do I believe that he used magnetism or some other nincompoopery of that kind? No, I do not. What I do believe, is that he found another method of accomplishing it, old or new, but of a more conventional kind.

Pics show him using an electric winch on a tripod.

Why would he use a winch if he had some mysterious knowledge of magnetism (coral is not magnetic)?

Harte

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Pics show him using an electric winch on a tripod.

Why would he use a winch if he had some mysterious knowledge of magnetism (coral is not magnetic)?

Harte

... everybody slacks off once in a while...

--Jaylemurph

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I don't consider this of much import but the fact is steps are easier to handle than ramps. They

are more natural to the human gait and we still use them today. Of course, there are both steps

and ramps surviving from the great pyramid building age. A good rule of thumb then as now is

that inclines of less than 10 degrees will usually be an inclined plane but for walkways they will

tend to use steps for steeper ascents.

Of course it matters. We are told there's plenty of evidence and cultural context but they neglected

to even use the word "ramp"!!! This meansd there are no "Overseers of Ramp Builders", and no

"Overseer of Ramp Dismantlers", no "Ramp Designers", no gods of ramps no inscriptions of "the Crew

of the Drunken Ramp Builders of Khufu, no nothing. Everywhere you look there are no ramps. There

are no exceptions to this and there are no ramps. How can this be if there were ramps? How can there

be no evidence for ramps and no word for ramps?

The question isn't whether or not there are ramps. We all know there were ramps. The question

is how did they lift stones to build great pyramids (NOT SINKI!!!!!!). This is where there is no evidence

that ramps were used. Of the several ramps associated wirth great pyramids none are on the pyramid

or pointed at it, And sufficiently robust, And not explained as for some other use than lifting stones on

the pyramid. None can be explained as part of a ramping system to deliver stones high on the pyramid

exclusively.

The pyramid is the "pile of stones" to which I was referring.

No, no, no. By the "easy way" I mean the way that is actually evidenced; pulling the stones

straight up the side. This is how they actually built the pyramids based on the actual evidence

rather than the belief that they could only have used ramps. Pulling the stones up the side

was many times easier than building ramps and dragging stones on them.

It is incidental to this very nearly established fact that I believe that they used water filled coun-

ter weights to drag the styones styraight up the side. This would probably be established fact

as well if the powers that be weren't sitting on their hands (much like a stone) for the last 6 1/2

years. The facts are really pretty determinative here considering all the evidence isa they had

water and that the pyramids are all built right on water collection devices.

What we "know" for fact is they pulled stones up the side and what is apparent is that they used

water to do it. I believe the water arrived naturally at the pyramid site therough the caves.

The fact that there are ramps from the time of the pyramid building indicates they were used. I doubt they were used just to walk on. They wouldn't have taken away time from building the pyramids to build ramps that had no function. While we do have remains of ramps, we do not have remains of any counterweight system.

It wasn't that long ago in the scheme of things that ramps had not yet been discovered and the hew and cry was (based on a post from another board years ago): "There is nothing in the texts to indicate ramps existed much less used and no ramps have been found so ramps were not used in the building of the pyramids and to believe they were is down right delusional"

Pulling stones straight up would only have occurred at the lower levels. As the pyramid rose and each level was pushed farther in than the last, the angle would increase, finally matching that of the pyramid itself. This of course presents problems such as the ropes being pulled across the edges of the stones on each level, the blocks being pulled across blocks already in place at each level causing a wearing away of the blocks, also blocks smaller than the rise from one level to the next had a good chance of getting caught and requiring workers to climb the pyramid and attempt to free the 2 1/2 ton+ stone by hand.

I would like to see the evidence of the water collection devices please.

You realize that a counterweight for one 2 1/2 ton block would require 600 gallons of water and would measure approximately 3 ft x 3 ft x 7 ft.

Copying and altering slightly a part of your post:

Please show me references to the "Overseer of counterweight Builders", "Overseer of counterweight Dismantlers", "counterweight Designers", gods of counterweights and inscriptions of "the Crew of the Drunken counterweight Builders of Khufu" or even the word counterweight or it's equivalent.

Perhaps I missed it in a previous post so could you please supply a link that shows that it is a fact they hauled the blocks up the side of the pyramid?

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Like Wally Wallington, this man has demonstrated that he can lift a Stonehenge-sized pillar weighing 22,000 lbs and moved a barn over 300 feet. What makes this so special is that he does it using only himself, gravity, and his incredible ingenuity to accomplish such a feat.

See for yourself.

http://www.disclose...._Move_Anything/

Thats great! So that way could ancients built others site too.

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Cladking... try to solve the mystery of coral castle ( www.coralcastle.com) before you and many others will move to pyramids of giza subject. I mention coral castle in many places,but most of members just ignore it. Man who build coral castle new the secret of the pyramids. Question to everyone: How can you solve the mystery of the pyramids, if you can't even solve the mystery of coral castle. Thank you.

Here you go solved

edliftingcoral.jpg

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Here you go solved

edliftingcoral.jpg

Well... if you think its solved..so now,solve the mystery of the great pyramid.

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Hey Clad, I see now why you'd like the cave dug out Pronto. You're hoping that they hold the key to finding how the geyser system worked under the plateau, right?

I also see what you are talking about with the lines on the gravimetric scan, but you would have to ignore the false color mapping that shows the densities and only look at the lines. Which ignores the whole point of the density graduations.

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Hi folks; I didn't read all 34 pages of this thread but it seems we often stray from the topic. In this case its "secret caves under the pyramids". I will refer you over to Poppet's thread about the Sphinx temple. Robert Temple (no relation to Sphinx)has claimed to have discovered the locations of a number of pharoahs' burial sites by looking at a strange granite piece placed into the bedrock of the Sphinx temple. This may or may not be factual and correct but he also claims to have tested some stones or boulders from the Valley temple (next to the Sphinx temple)and found them to be stalactites (maybe stalagmites?)!! If this is true, and it should be relatively easy to confirm this (additional samples and independent testers)then two things seem fairly certain. One, there are indeed (secret until now?)caves on the Giza plateau and two, the AE's knew about them and modified them for some reason. I say that because the AE's would not quarry an underground location with a whole plateau of above ground limestone available so clearly the boulders were removed to make the space more useable. The Eygyptian government should confirm that the boulders are formed by dripping water and (if confirmed) do a test dig at the end of one of Temple's granite 'cable' stones. That's the nice thing about his theory; it precisely pinpoints where something should be underground. Here's hoping that someone follows up on this. Would make one heck of a discovery if something was found!!

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Hey Clad, I see now why you'd like the cave dug out Pronto. You're hoping that they hold the key to finding how the geyser system worked under the plateau, right?

I also see what you are talking about with the lines on the gravimetric scan, but you would have to ignore the false color mapping that shows the densities and only look at the lines. Which ignores the whole point of the density graduations.

Oh, gosh! I had completely forgotten about clad's geyser idea.

Fuelled, no doubt, by the holy and drooly excresences of our Past Basset Masters. Sadly, when they re-ascended to their Basset-y Celestial Domain Where Hams Are Quiet Abundant, all evidence for this system would have disappeared. I'm glad clad has been touched by Them to realize the truth!

--Jaylemurph

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