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dreamland

Secret Caves under the Pyramids

969 posts in this topic

What you're still not getting here is that you're looking down at something that is a 3 dimensional object that's at an angle which creates the illusion that they are not the same size. You're not looking at a flat picture, which is apparently what you're expecting. The lines are exactly 47 meters diagonally apart and 81 feet vertically, from the base.

Then you are suggesting they built ~150' tower on top of the pyramid to hold the transducer to make the scan?

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Then you are suggesting they built ~150' tower on top of the pyramid to hold the transducer to make the scan?

No, I'm saying that when you attempt to apply a 2 dimensional layout of lines (your 5 steps) to a 3 dimensional structure* that (as seen from top) would be closer to your frame of reference the higher it goes looking top-down then you're necessarily wrong.

* which is what you're doing.

I can do/have done an approximation of the sides too, using the points as laid out in the 2 dimensional densitogram, but you wouldn't like it either as it also negates your 5-step claim.

cormac

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No, I'm saying that when you attempt to apply a 2 dimensional layout of lines (your 5 steps) to a 3 dimensional structure* that (as seen from top) would be closer to your frame of reference the higher it goes looking top-down then you're necessarily wrong.

* which is what you're doing.

I can do/have done an approximation of the sides too, using the points as laid out in the 2 dimensional densitogram, but you wouldn't like it either as it also negates your 5-step claim.

I'd like to see anything with five equally spaced lines 81' 3" apart.

I did actually refer to these other drawings even while I was still looking for a pattern in the colors.

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Posted (edited)

I'd like to see anything with five equally spaced lines 81' 3" apart.

theres work done few years back by Ole Jørgen Bryn

called "Diamond Matrix"

suggesting that the great pyramid was done in 7 units.

7 units = 6 step core unit and 1 unit for top section of the great pyramid..

while i think the thread is going way off topic.

i just mention it and here is link for the "diamond matrix" for those interested.

http://www.ntnu.edu/...&groupId=139701

Edited by samspade

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I dont need to study the subject at hand..On internet you can find many people talking about the great pyramids,how they were build and by whom.Youtube is another great tool.I showed you youtube video : The secret construction of the pyramids and so far noone talks about it.. All i hear is ramps theory. Noone talks about possible antigravity technology,aliens and Mr Edward who build the coral castle and knew how pyramids were build. When you watch the video you see people and top architects who say that it would be extremely difficult even in todays technology we have to do such a pyramid. Egyptologists says that pyramid was build in 20 years: from wiki : Based on these estimates, building this in 20 years would involve installing approximately 800 tonnes of stone every day. Similarly, since it consists of an estimated 2.3 million blocks, completing the building in 20 years would involve moving an average of more than 12 of the blocks into place each hour, day and night.

Egyptologists says that and that because they are unable to give people another better explanation how they did it,and whats funny...some people believe them.

Consider the source. That's all that matters. Any half-baked nitwit wearing a tinfoil hat and sequestering himself in his parents' basement, can slap together a website or an internet video. This is indeed the information age, but do you honestly think a lot of the information you come across on the Net is worth half a moment's consideration? I apologize for being blunt but rarely do the people who submit Wiki articles or slap up YouTube videos even know what in the hell they're talking about.

Wikipedia, YouTube, and the internet in general are not proper or reliable research materials.

And some of them can be downright dishonest. There is one Wiki article I've encountered about something Giza-related that presents some accurate information but in the same article seriously misquotes a paper written by Mark Lehner. It's a given that if a web page seems to present a few real facts but also tosses in highly dubious, questionable, or downright incorrect information, the entire web page is of no value.

Consider the source. Take serously TheSearcher's admonition to study the subject at hand—written by people who've committed their lives to understanding ancient history on a professional level. These are the people who know what they're talking about, and they can be trusted. As much as it drives the fringe nuts, fringe and alternative writers have not changed any precept of orthodox, professional research because the conclusions of fringe writers have basically no research value.

That is not going to change—for the simple reason that science demands higher standards. ;)

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Consider the source. That's all that matters. Any half-baked nitwit wearing a tinfoil hat and sequestering himself in his parents' basement, can slap together a website or an internet video. This is indeed the information age, but do you honestly think a lot of the information you come across on the Net is worth half a moment's consideration? I apologize for being blunt but rarely do the people who submit Wiki articles or slap up YouTube videos even know what in the hell they're talking about.

Wikipedia, YouTube, and the internet in general are not proper or reliable research materials.

And some of them can be downright dishonest. There is one Wiki article I've encountered about something Giza-related that presents some accurate information but in the same article seriously misquotes a paper written by Mark Lehner. It's a given that if a web page seems to present a few real facts but also tosses in highly dubious, questionable, or downright incorrect information, the entire web page is of no value.

Consider the source. Take serously TheSearcher's admonition to study the subject at hand—written by people who've committed their lives to understanding ancient history on a professional level. These are the people who know what they're talking about, and they can be trusted. As much as it drives the fringe nuts, fringe and alternative writers have not changed any precept of orthodox, professional research because the conclusions of fringe writers have basically no research value.

That is not going to change—for the simple reason that science demands higher standards. ;)

Well...I am well open-minded person...i know what to believe and what not to.If wiki articles and some youtube movies about pyramids are not true,they would have been debunked already.You cannot say that everything is a one big lie.There are people out there that study pyramids in egypt for a long time,and if they want to share their knowledge..they can share it with the rest of the public by writing aritcle or post youtube video.You said there is one article you encounter that has some accurate info,but you fail to even share it with us or post a link to the website.I would love to hear your theory of how egyptians build pyramids..thank you

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Posted (edited)

Consider the source. Take serously TheSearcher's admonition to study the subject at hand—written by people who've committed their lives to understanding ancient history on a professional level. These are the people who know what they're talking about, and they can be trusted. As much as it drives the fringe nuts, fringe and alternative writers have not changed any precept of orthodox, professional research because the conclusions of fringe writers have basically no research value.

That is not going to change—for the simple reason that science demands higher standards. ;)

professional research because the conclusions of fringe writers have basically no research value?

being a analyst for so long, i see flaws in your statement, clearly your assuming to trust them.

thats a terrible flaw.

anyhow from a analyst point of view, i cant trust the majority orthodox view.

its would be terribly flawed to trust them without doing research and checking things out for myself.

anyhow in regards to people who really dont research and just come up with some crazy theory without evidence from the ancient egyptians, agreed they cant be trusted as well.

basically i stick with a analyst approach its far more reliable than trustly in someone else work or opinion,.

Edited by samspade

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Well...I am well open-minded person...i know what to believe and what not to.If wiki articles and some youtube movies about pyramids are not true,they would have been debunked already.You cannot say that everything is a one big lie.There are people out there that study pyramids in egypt for a long time,and if they want to share their knowledge..they can share it with the rest of the public by writing aritcle or post youtube video.You said there is one article you encounter that has some accurate info,but you fail to even share it with us or post a link to the website.I would love to hear your theory of how egyptians build pyramids..thank you

I've been on this board for years discussing the orthodox conclusions on how the pyramids were built. It is not germane to the current discussion, which is off-track enough as it is, but stick around. There are bound to be more discussions on pyramid building. I don't take part as often or in as much detail as I used to because it's all been said a great many times, but my interest level is there enough for me to continue to participate. You can always use the forum's search function to look into old discussions. There are many of them, and I and the other usual posters were involved with most of them.

You can't really expect a professional researcher to slap together a YouTube video about pyramids. These people are too busy for such a lark. YouTube is not a legitimate source for research or education in the first place, so don't expect real historians to take part any time soon. I have nothing against YouTube as a source for entertainment and have done my share of YouTubing in the past, but never for research purposes.

I'm not saying everything is one big lie. I'll be frank and say it's a compilation of many lies—and if not lies, then just exceedingly poor conclusions not based on extant evidence and devoid of proper research. Please understand I am not pointing any fingers at you, but only at the internet in general. I've grown frustrated with the crap spewed all over the place. There are numerous websites that I could and have recommended which contain reliable information, but I've been ignored in the past when I have done this. From what I can see, for every one website that has educational merit (usually put up by universities or other professional institutes), there have to be at least 50 others that are far from desirable. And I'm probably being conservative. In fact, I'm sure I am.

The ironic thing is, for every 50 websites that are far from desirable, there have to be many times more the number in reliable, professionally researched articles, papers, and books. The amount of research on the Great Pyramid alone is monumental (pun intended). Think of all that's been researched and written over the past two centuries by properly educated and trained historians. Much of it can even be found for free. I used to go through the effort to post links to viable sites where some of this research can be downloaded as PDFs, but I tended to be ignored on that front, too. People who side with the fringe seem to want to remain within the fringe camp, so there's little I or others can do but continue to argue for properly researched conclusions.

To conclude this post, when I was writing my previous post I couldn't remember which article it was that included the misquote concerning Mark Lehner. I subsequently remembered, and it's an article about the Great Sphinx: click here. A little less than midway down the page is this line (under the "Restoration" heading):

Mark Lehner, an Egyptologist, originally asserted that there had been a far earlier renovation during the Old Kingdom (c. 2686–2184 BC),[30] although he has subsequently recanted this "heretical" viewpoint.[31]

Anyone familiar with Lehner's body of research—and he is the world's leading expert on the Giza monuments—will immediately see this as suspect. The Wiki article cites a different web article authored by Colin Reader, who has his own ideas about the age of the Sphinx, and the author of the Wiki article does not seem even to have cited Reader correctly. Reader's article correctly references Lehner's well-known paper "The Development of the Giza Necropolis: The Khufu Project." I've read the paper. If you're interested, you can download it as a PDF (around 11 MB). Lehner does not make such a comment as in the above quote in this or any other paper he's authored.

Whether by design or by accident, such an obvious misrepresentation is a good example of why one should not trust Wiki on the face of it. Wiki is handy and useful, but the careful student will always substantiate a Wiki article with a perusal of the professional literature.

Enough said. My apologies for droning on.

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science demands higher standards ?.

being a analyst for so long, i see flaws in your statement, clearly your assuming to trust them.

thats a terrible flaw.

anyhow from a analyst point of view, i cant trust the majority orthodox view.

its would be terribly flawed to trust them without doing research and checking things out for myself.

anyhow in regards to people who really dont research and just come up with some crazy theory without evidence from the ancient egyptians, agreed they cant be trusted as well.

basically i stick with a analyst approach its far more reliable than trustly in someone else work or opinion,.

You keep calling yourself an "analyst," which is getting a bit old. More often that than not, when I or another poster requests that you elaborate, you back away. You yourself are not an expert on the ancient Egyptian civilization, so how do you think you can rewrite so many decades of professional research?

You know what I've said before about a person who claims to be the only one to know "the truth," and that maxim still stands.

Can you offer details to contradict me?

Sorry for being brash. I really must be in a mood tonight.

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Posted (edited)

You keep calling yourself an "analyst," which is getting a bit old. More often that than not, when I or another poster requests that you elaborate, you back away. You yourself are not an expert on the ancient Egyptian civilization, so how do you think you can rewrite so many decades of professional research?

You know what I've said before about a person who claims to be the only one to know "the truth," and that maxim still stands.

Can you offer details to contradict me?

Sorry for being brash. I really must be in a mood tonight.

tough if you can take the truth that your statements are flawed, and i mention that before before it was the truth.

and what is old about me having a analyst background its the truth and it applys, i never backed away from my professional background.

andy your statement to offer details to contract me, your statement from a analyst position is flawed, basically the true is, its a stupid position to take if you feel that someone cant discover a new truth.

just being honest and truthfull dude.

Edited by samspade

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tough if you can take the truth that your statements are flawed, and i mention that before before it was the truth.

and what is old about me having a analyst background its the truth and it applys, i never backed away from my professional background.

andy your statement to offer details to contract me, your statement from a analyst position is flawed, basically the true is, its a stupid position to take if you feel that someone cant discover a new truth.

just being honest and truthfull dude.

I have no problem with that.

But I still stand by my position, and nothing's changed. You continue to avoid defending yourself other than by losing your cool with me.

I've been meaning to suggest this but why don't you start a thread explaining your beliefs? You keep hinting at all this stuff you know but you never present much information. You keep telling me how I'm wrong or cladking how he's wrong or this or that poster how he or she is wrong, but...how so? In what way? What is your case?

This particular discussion is not the place for it, so that's why I'm encouraging you to start a thread of your own. Flesh out this professional background of yours, if you're confident about it. Of course I cannot require you to do so—I just think it might be worth your time and it might bring in some real discussion. Describe your beliefs about the benben stone, and previous hints at how Jesus is involved—stuff you've mentioned before.

Please cease from hinting at a professional background and telling me or others how we're wrong and leaving it at that. It doesn't contribute. As a Moderator that's something on which I can take action, but believe me when I say I would rather just post than have to do that.

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Posted (edited)

I have no problem with that.

But I still stand by my position, and nothing's changed. You continue to avoid defending yourself other than by losing your cool with me.

im not losing my cool. i just stating the facts which are true and you seem to be in denial in your flaw statements here and in the past..

Please cease from hinting at a professional background and telling me or others how we're wrong and leaving it at that. It doesn't contribute. As a Moderator that's something on which I can take action, but believe me when I say I would rather just post than have to do that.

frankly i just tell the truth, if you cant accept it your problem.

your problem is your write statements which are flawed.

perhaps if you would be more carefull on your logic in statements

and think of cases where there may be exemptions to case, you would not fall

in the trap in making flawed statements.

but you fail to see the error of your ways and its is unbecoming,

perhaps mods should not be able to post in threads were they are moderating.

just a honest opinion.

frankly in the past to, you maked comments i found unbecoming of a Mod,

perhaps you believe you thought you were being funny.,

Edited by samspade

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im not losing my cool. i just stating the facts which are true and you seem to be in denial in your flaw statements here and in the past..

frankly i just tell the truth, if you cant accept it your problem.

your problem is your write statements which are flawed.

perhaps if you would be more carefull on your logic and think of cases where there may be exemptions to case, you would not fall

in the trap in making flawed statements.

frankly in the past to, you maked comments i found unbecoming of a Mod, perhaps you believe you thought you were being funny,

but you fail to see the error of your ways is unbecoming, perhaps mods should not be able to post in threads were they are moderating.

just a honest opinion.

We'll leave it at that for now, sam. This is getting us nowhere, and you're still avoiding fleshing out your position. Trying to turn it back on me doesn't help you.

Have a good night.

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Posted (edited)

We'll leave it at that for now, sam. This is getting us nowhere, and you're still avoiding fleshing out your position. Trying to turn it back on me doesn't help you.

Have a good night.

this is unbelievable, your statement is flawed, i pointed it out.

then you wont defend your statement or realize the error of your ways.

and try to blame it on me.

its unbecoming, if there are any other mods, take note of his statement and in the mood to argue it as he mention.

he does not even grasp his flawed statement.

seriously take time to think what you are posting instead of trying to blame me for your flawed statements.

Edited by samspade

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being a analyst for so long, i see flaws in your statement, clearly your assuming to trust them.

thats a terrible flaw.

If we don't trust the experts, who the hell are we to trust? The physical evidence was found by experts, so is everything suspect?

Evaluating whatever comes along is fine, but fringe can't be openly assumed to be as correct at orthodoxy just because we want to be "fair".

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Posted (edited)

If we don't trust the experts, who the hell are we to trust? The physical evidence was found by experts, so is everything suspect?

Evaluating whatever comes along is fine, but fringe can't be openly assumed to be as correct at orthodoxy just because we want to be "fair".

im trained in a certain way, and its a professional manner of approach.

all these egyptologist experts dont agree on everything, and

sometimes their views may change over time

there may be something overlooked or missed, or undiscovered etc, etc,

some may be better in certain area's than others.

some may find new evidence and not present it to the experts, possible.

kmt failed to back his flawed statement, instead he tryed to turn it on me.

its unbecoming of a mod.

he wanted to argue ,

.

he even had the nerve to mention a discussion long ago where i pointed out another flawed statement of his , .

any professional analyst would agree with my opinion of his statement here being flaw

, and even his older statement that he nerve to try to raise, whether divert, or be il-responible for not addressing the real issue.

thus, personally i would hope the other mods note his il-founded behaviour and have him banned.

Edited by samspade

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~drone snip

Anyone familiar with Lehner's body of research—and he is the world's leading expert on the Giza monuments—will immediately see this as suspect. The Wiki article cites a different web article authored by Colin Reader, who has his own ideas about the age of the Sphinx, and the author of the Wiki article does not seem even to have cited Reader correctly. Reader's article correctly references Lehner's well-known paper "The Development of the Giza Necropolis: The Khufu Project." I've read the paper. If you're interested, you can download it as a PDF (around 11 MB). Lehner does not make such a comment as in the above quote in this or any other paper he's authored.

~drone snip

thanks for the PDF boss ... you haven't been droning as much, you felling okay boss .. ?

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Posted (edited)

professional research because the conclusions of fringe writers have basically no research value?

being a analyst for so long, i see flaws in your statement, clearly your assuming to trust them.

thats a terrible flaw.

anyhow from a analyst point of view, i cant trust the majority orthodox view.

its would be terribly flawed to trust them without doing research and checking things out for myself.

anyhow in regards to people who really dont research and just come up with some crazy theory without evidence from the ancient egyptians, agreed they cant be trusted as well.

basically i stick with a analyst approach its far more reliable than trustly in someone else work or opinion,.

If you are really an analyst. then you should read the books written by a Graham Hancock, an example of a 'fringe' writer.

You will see fringe writers go from "This could be true" to "This is true" very easily. Most often it seems that the "could be" part of the sentence is becoming too tiring for them after many repeats and change it into "is", and voilà: point proven,

This is not what happens (or should not happen) using a scientific approach, as you should know.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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He's just slicing the beef thin Abe, he don't care if the research draws wrong or bad conclusions,

to him that doesn't means the research is of no research value entirely ....

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Hi KMT-SESH,

I'm contraversial enough and have no wish to debate this subject, only add humour, i was wondering if there were any ancient Egyptian Quote you would like to add from the list below, i know you have a favourite one ha ha!

http://www.historyofpainters.com/egypt_proverbs.htm

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Posted (edited)

You will see fringe writers go from "This could be true" to "This is true" very easily. Most often it seems that the "could be" part of the sentence is becoming too tiring for them after many repeats and change it into "is", and voilà: point proven,

This is not what happens (or should not happen) using a scientific approach, as you should know.

lol of course not.

but when you have a absence of data, unknown value, a null in computer terms,,

you cant presumed what value it is with certainly or if it exists in cases

it will remain that way undertill it is proven with fact, not speculation.

they can speculate and suggest it may be this value,

for it may be even could be a million to one, but it may not be true.

speculation doesnt not prove anything but sometimes its a usefull tool in problem solving.

no matter how good they try and present the OCT for example, it wont be fact until someone can prove it with valid evidence fact.

a null and unknown you cant suggest something is not it,

even though it could be a trillion to 1 longshot for example..

its like that diaster in japan, they didnt use all data, flawed in the data collecting, they discluded data, and thus design a system and said it basically was zero risk, and years later opps all those nuclear reactors melted down

Edited by samspade

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Posted (edited)

People who build pyramids must be laughing hard now,that we still dont know how they did it,despite of having all these books,articles and people who study pyramids for a long time. True is one...Egyptologists are wrong saying that pyramid was build in 20 years.. cutting and trasporting 2,300,000 stones to construction site would take a long time to do alone. Lifting 40-60 tones block some 50 meters up ( kings chamber) and putting them together is simply impossible without advance technology.We today could do it only with cranes.If they could cut one stone in 1 minute ( we know its going to take longer ) , that means they had to do it for 1597 days ( 4.3 years !!) jsut to cut stones,in in 1 minute) Transporting stones to construction site without using any trucks only ropes and sledges would take a great amount of time as well. Even having 3 teams ...1 team is cutting stones,, second team is transporting stones ..and third team is building pyramid..its still not possible to do it in 20 years,,based on these calculations i presented.It may be possible that the team who was building pyramid and more advanced knowledge then team 1 and 2 who just cut and transport blocks.Cutting and transporting stones to contruction zone can be done by anyone today...of course with a long time invested..so this is no problem..problem is how they were able to lift these heavy stones up? If they really used ramps as some people think..then think ramp would have to be pretty damn long,plus it would leave visible marks outside the pyramid,were the ramp was placed.Why there is not even one hieroglyph inside the pyramid is of course another mystery.

I do believe that they used technology not known to us today..maybe someday we will perhaps know the truth.Maybe one day we will open famous "Hall of Records" and find out how they really did it.I do know one thingfor sure...if we will find out one day,how they really did it..it will change the way we think and our world forever.

Edited by dreamland

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We today could do it only with cranes.If they could cut one stone in 1 minute ( we know its going to take longer ) , that means they had to do it for 1597 days ( 4.3 years !!) jsut to cut stones,in in 1 minute) Transporting stones to construction site without using any trucks only ropes and sledges would take a great amount of time as well.

The distance the stones were moved... we'd probably not use trucks even today. If I were to do it today. I'd do it with several giant towers and a system of cables.

I looked it up once, and the total US liimestone production would have to be used for 10 years to build the great pyramid. But that does not mean we couldn't do it. It ionly means that we currently don't do much with limestone. With 1000 quarrymen, and power tools, I'm sure we could get a lot more then 1 per minute. And the inner blocks are Far from Cubic. They are practically rough boulders. The squarish ones are toward the outside of the pyramid.

If they really used ramps as some people think..then think ramp would have to be pretty damn long,plus it would leave visible marks outside the pyramid,were the ramp was placed.

There are marks, on several pyramids. And a giant quarry full of debris less then a mile away.

Why there is not even one hieroglyph inside the pyramid is of course another mystery.

I thought it was because at the time, they put all the writing in the valley temples, and wrote nothing in the actual tombs.

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With 1000 quarrymen, and power tools, I'm sure we could get a lot more then 1 per minute

Are you referring to quarrymen today or back then? if back then..so why did you used word " power tools"? you know they had no any power tools. ( but i do believe they had) plus remember...these stone were not there ready to be cut. We are dealing with technology not known to us..what else do you want me to say?

There are marks, on several pyramids. And a giant quarry full of debris less then a mile away.

Can you show me artice or pictures that show marks from the ramp used to build great pyramid?

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this is unbelievable, your statement is flawed, i pointed it out.

then you wont defend your statement or realize the error of your ways.

and try to blame it on me.

its unbecoming, if there are any other mods, take note of his statement and in the mood to argue it as he mention.

he does not even grasp his flawed statement.

seriously take time to think what you are posting instead of trying to blame me for your flawed statements.

You keep trotting out the "flawed" comments. Yet, you never explain what's supposed to be flawed with my or anyone else's information, and you never offer any details on what you believe to be "correct."

How is this useful to anyone?

As anyone here will know, over the years I've fleshed out my arguments with plentiful details and citations. I'm still waiting on you to do the same.

On a side note, do not make comments about Mods. This will bring you into shaky territory. Think of me as a poster. All of us Mods serve both roles.

thanks for the PDF boss ... you haven't been droning as much, you felling okay boss .. ?

Hi, third_eye. It's great to see you in these parts again. Everything's fine, and thanks for asking. I've been incredibly busy at work these days, and there's little more to add to the current discussion so I haven't been terribly active in it.

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