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Still Waters

World’s first 'gay bible' published

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Can you already stop harping on Christianity about this? Who gives a rat´s behind about what some stupid priests are saying?

If you worry about religion-gay relations, address a real issue, like this:

http://www.guardian....xuality-charges

Sheesh, talking about barking up the wrong tree.

This is a topic about christianity NOT islam.

If you want to discuss the muslim view and how (equaly) wrong it is, start a topic on it.

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This is a topic about christianity NOT islam.

If you want to discuss the muslim view and how (equaly) wrong it is, start a topic on it.

See its this kind of hypocrisy which i am trying to address.WHY only christians, if a person is gay and wants to create their own cult then why can they not do one which is open to ALL religions. Talk about creating a divide! Why can a "bible" not be created to embrace all beliefs...how can people expect to be accepted themselves if they are not prepared to accept people of their own sexuallity?i think i will create a bibble for all gay people no matter what religion you are? hows that for equality?

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See its this kind of hypocrisy which i am trying to address.WHY only christians, if a person is gay and wants to create their own cult then why can they not do one which is open to ALL religions. Talk about creating a divide! Why can a "bible" not be created to embrace all beliefs...how can people expect to be accepted themselves if they are not prepared to accept people of their own sexuallity?i think i will create a bibble for all gay people no matter what religion you are? hows that for equality?

It's not hyocrisy. This post is about a specific topic about a specific religion. Islam's views are irrelevent to the topic at hand. It's like going into a discussion about dogs and trying to turn it about cats.

I agree, something should be done about ALL religions. However the problem is that religions all follow different things to begin with. What's in the bible is only relevent to christians, it's not relevent to hindus or buddists and it''s only semi-relevent to muslims.

We need to have laws in place to prevent the rampant abuse of gay people by religions not an attempt to have a 'catch-all bible'.

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It's not hyocrisy. This post is about a specific topic about a specific religion. Islam's views are irrelevent to the topic at hand. It's like going into a discussion about dogs and trying to turn it about cats.

I agree, something should be done about ALL religions. However the problem is that religions all follow different things to begin with. What's in the bible is only relevent to christians, it's not relevent to hindus or buddists and it''s only semi-relevent to muslims.

We need to have laws in place to prevent the rampant abuse of gay people by religions not an attempt to have a 'catch-all bible'.

its the "rampant" abuse I am trying to address. Gay people are fully aware that they will upset many, so why do it? maybe because they can shout louder when they have upset someone?My point is how can you ask for equality when you are not prepared to be equal with others?I have no problem with gay people, I do not have problems with many religious people either, but we already know religion has been the cause of most wars, now we have ANOTHER aspect of it being thrown in to create even more problems down to blooming religion!!!

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If I were gay statements like that would send me into a murderous outrage. As it is it just sends me into an outrage.

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its the "rampant" abuse I am trying to address. Gay people are fully aware that they will upset many, so why do it? maybe because they can shout louder when they have upset someone?My point is how can you ask for equality when you are not prepared to be equal with others?I have no problem with gay people, I do not have problems with many religious people either, but we already know religion has been the cause of most wars, now we have ANOTHER aspect of it being thrown in to create even more problems down to blooming religion!!!

The rampant abuse occurs because religion is wrong about homosexuality. They need to wake up and open their eyes about it and start treating gay people with the true love and acceptance they deserve, instead of the fear and hatred they get.

Gay people are upset and for good reason. People attack, them demean them, their relationships and their families. If someone did that to you, you'd be pretty damn upset too and you'd want people to help you not act like you've bought it upon yourself.

Gay people being quite just results in more gay people being abused, just like it does for any other group. They need to be loud, they need it to stop it from happening to more people.

Edited by shadowhive

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If I were gay statements like that would send me into a murderous outrage. As it is it just sends me into an outrage.

I wouldn't quite say it sends me into a murderous outrage, but it certainly does outrage me when people have that attitude.

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You know I never knew such a thing as a homosexual existed, even when I was going to school in the States, and no one in Vietnam had any notion.

Oh there was some same-sex playing around, but no one took it seriously; the assumption was we would all get married in the end and until then girls were strictly off limits.

Of course a few didn't get married, and now I understand it. Now that the sexual revolution has swept over Vietnam, the young people pair off before marriage, if they get married at all, and the older brother who would come with the long knife if you played with his sister no longer exists.

I just don't get it with these Christians and Muslims. What is so sinful about sex? It is what we do to perpetuate the species, and it's a lot of fun even when you aren't making babies. I think children should be allowed to grow up unmolested, but other than that and of course rape, we need to relax.

(By the way, I am almost seventy years old and have been celibate since my wife died -- out of her memory, not because I think sex is bad. At my age that isn't all that hard to do).

Edited by Frank Merton

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You know I never knew such a thing as a homosexual existed, even when I was going to school in the States, and no one in Vietnam had any notion.

Oh there was some same-sex playing around, but no one took it seriously; the assumption was we would all get married in the end and until then girls were strictly off limits.

Of course a few didn't get married, and now I understand it. Now that the sexual revolution has swept over Vietnam, the young people pair off before marriage, if they get married at all, and the older brother who would come with the long knife if you played with his sister no longer exists.

I just don't get it with these Christians and Muslims. What is so sinful about sex? It is what we do to perpetuate the species, and it's a lot of fun even when you aren't making babies. I think children should be allowed to grow up unmolested, but other than that and of course rape, we need to relax.

(By the way, I am almost seventy years old and have been celibate since my wife died -- out of her memory, not because I think sex is bad. At my age that isn't all that hard to do).

I agree, the preoccupation with sex and what consenting adults do in the bedroom is really quite disturbing and I've never understood it.

I think if sex hadn't been a requirement for children, they'd likely have made it sinful full stop. (And that would've been better for everyone because the religion would've died out by now.)

I think that's a reason for ceibacy that I can get behind and I think that's so sweet that you decided on that.

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we already know religion has been the cause of most wars, now we have ANOTHER aspect of it being thrown in to create even more problems down to blooming religion!!!

Not blanket "religion". For example, Jainism and Bahaism have created ZERO wars, which not something you can say about many "isms".

Why taint them with your broad brush?

How do they deserve that?

What happened to fairness? Objectivity? Facts?

Edited by Zaphod222
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:You are right. What we call "religion" covers such a broad array of ideas and behaviors that I doubt any assessment or judgment of religion is possible, and even making statements about "most religions" are almost certainly wrong.

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It's been a long held belief that Jesus is a bridegroom and his bride is the church which is made up of male and female members...Is the Lord being in the male image going to enter into a marriage union with another male? For any male to be standing firmly believing that they are going to be married or headed toward a marriage union with the ALL male god head and then condemn the outward manifestation of such a union but holds fast to their hidden standard for themselves of that being okay...well, it's gona bite to be turned away at the gate by that standard (law) being played back in the "do unto others as you would have done unto you"...

It's a terrible thing when any of us make an effort and show forth our earnest desire toward God (the Creator), for every time we try there is always one willing to stand at the gate judging what we bring as an offering and what else do we have to offer but our "earnest effort of trying" to draw closer in whatever way we can...

The bible says that Aaron (the high Priest) will bear the shame of the whatever the offerings are,

Exodus 28:38

And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD

http://bible.cc/exodus/28-38.htm

Aaron was represented, not only as making an atonement in general for the sins of the people by the sacrifices they brought, but also as making an atonement for the imperfection of the atonement itself, and the manner in which it was brought.

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I don't want to seek those websites out because I know that the sentiment isn't correct. As a former practicing homosexual, meaning I am homosexual but no longer practice or engage in homosexual activity due to my beliefs, I can say that I wouldn't be displeased if it were true, but it isn't. It is, I think, a growing attempt to influence the consensus of the uninformed.

Obstaining from practicing or engaging in homosexual activity....... Does that include not pleasuring oneself (MASTER8ATION) ?

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He doesn't want to find out that his inclination isn't sinful after all. Weird.

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They should do all three. However, the problem is the bible's so highly regarded they don't want to seee past it. The bible offers an absolute and people don't see willing to think past that.

I used to project an emotional attachment to a symbolic representation of my own ideology. I grossly overestimated the influence the Bible had over the majority of Christians. Until I picked up the Bible myself, as a skeptic, and educated myself on it I didn't realize that I was the same as the Christian. Just the other side of the coin. The skeptic and the Christian are going nowhere until they each educate themselves rather than trying to push their own ideology upon one another uninformed.

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I am gay and this is the biggest JOKE I've ever read.

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Not blanket "religion". For example, Jainism and Bahaism have created ZERO wars, which not something you can say about many "isms".

Why taint them with your broad brush?

How do they deserve that?

What happened to fairness? Objectivity? Facts?

You certainly are a stickler for language and semantics, Zaphod. It's not unfair nor non-objective to not qualify every single statement and word used any more than it is logical for you to plug in your own adjectives where none are given. And it is certainly not logical for you to add your own qualifiers to others' statements and then admonish people based on it. She didn't say 'all religion', so why did you add that adjective? If I say, 'a significant cause of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is driving automobiles', is that an incorrect statement? Have I tainted and been unfair and non-objective to electric cars?

'Fairness' includes the responsibilities you have as the receiver of the communication, and one of those responsibilities is at the very least to not assume specific interpretations of an ambiguous statement (and almost all statements are ambiguous at some level), especially when you are assuming a negative interpretation; such is the raw material out of which countless strawmen are constructed. I think the reminder given in your first two sentences that not all religions are responsible for wars is a fine comment all by itself; the rest seems kinda gratuitous.

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The rampant abuse occurs because religion is wrong about homosexuality. They need to wake up and open their eyes about it and start treating gay people with the true love and acceptance they deserve, instead of the fear and hatred they get.

Gay people are upset and for good reason. People attack, them demean them, their relationships and their families. If someone did that to you, you'd be pretty damn upset too and you'd want people to help you not act like you've bought it upon yourself.

Gay people being quite just results in more gay people being abused, just like it does for any other group. They need to be loud, they need it to stop it from happening to more people.

if that upset, then why try and be part of a religion which have people today against it? why not form their own cult??

If i was pretty upset by something, the last thing i would do would be to try and be part of their religion, I would form my own, call it something else...not christianity.

As for "religion" in general, I doubt a muslim would be accepted with open arms in many areas if they told them they were gay, so again, why antagonize those who follow that religion.

As i have mentioned, we have enough problems with religions today in many areas of the world, religion has caused many wars, so as a non religious person, i do not want to see more trouble related to it.

talking about people getting 'upset' I get very upset when I see more people being killed because of religion, I sure do not want more firewood thrown on the fire, hence I chose to follow NONE.

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if that upset, then why try and be part of a religion which have people today against it? why not form their own cult??

If i was pretty upset by something, the last thing i would do would be to try and be part of their religion, I would form my own, call it something else...not christianity.

As for "religion" in general, I doubt a muslim would be accepted with open arms in many areas if they told them they were gay, so again, why antagonize those who follow that religion.

As i have mentioned, we have enough problems with religions today in many areas of the world, religion has caused many wars, so as a non religious person, i do not want to see more trouble related to it.

talking about people getting 'upset' I get very upset when I see more people being killed because of religion, I sure do not want more firewood thrown on the fire, hence I chose to follow NONE.

Personally, I don't understand why any self respecting gay person would want to be part of those religions either.

The probbblem is that religious people need to accept that gay people exist. After all it's religious people that are harming gay people, not the other way around. Religions love to play the victim card but they honestly don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to persecuting others (not just gay people either).

I get upset by people killed because of religion, which is why I want it stopped.

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I just don't get it with these Christians and Muslims.

You have to accept that this is how some people feel, like gay people want people to accept them, they have to accept that they have accept their feelings too, HENCE if they say their religion does not accept it, fine! form another cult and stop antagonising the situation.

NOT ALL GAY PEOPLE ARE RELIGIOUS BTW, but this type of behaviour will not help other gay people at all. How many will now have to try and explain they are not religious when someone attacks them over this?

I am sick and tired of religion creating hatred and wars, and this only adds to the already long list.

You want to follow a religion......form you own!!! let the christians and muslims have theirs. It may be easier to be accepted if you are not demanding these religions accept you as one of them, cos many obviously will not.

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Personally, I don't understand why any self respecting gay person would want to be part of those religions either.

The probbblem is that religious people need to accept that gay people exist. After all it's religious people that are harming gay people, not the other way around. Religions love to play the victim card but they honestly don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to persecuting others (not just gay people either).

I get upset by people killed because of religion, which is why I want it stopped.

Line one....agree.

there is no problem with religious people accepting gay people exist, they know they do, but when told they now have to accept they will be part of their religion, well, i think thats rubbing their noses in it a bit.

As i say, i am not religious, but if i was and was anti gay (which i most certainly am not) i would be pretty peeved that they want me to accept them into my religion when it is clear i do not.

Again, sorry :innocent: but form another cult if religion means that much to them. It can include whoever they like, Jesus, Mohammed or whoever, but do not call it christianity or islam.

Edited by freetoroam

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Line one....agree.

there is no problem with religious people accepting gay people exist, they know they do, but when told they now have to accept they will be part of their religion, well, i think thats rubbing their noses in it a bit.

As i say, i am not religious, but if i was and was anti gay (which i most certainly am not) i would be pretty peeved that they want me to accept them into my religion when it is clear i do not.

Again, sorry :innocent: but form another cult if religion means that much to them. It can include whoever they like, Jesus, Mohammed or whoever, but do not call it christianity or islam.

It's not that simple really. Some people are born into religious families/environments and so form... an attachment that's hard to let go over.

Of course, the thing there is two fold. First, Christianity itself is a collection of sects and they all have different beiefs, despite haing the same bible. For example, the catholics are against divorce for any reason yet the church of england allow divorce for any reason. That's just one example, there are others. Saying gay people shouldn't be a part of christianity because it could 'upset' people is like the catholic church saying diivorcees can't be christian, even if they're not catholic.

Second, there are christian sects and churches that ARE accepting of gay people. Should they be forced not to be simply because the other groups of christians will get upset? If so, where does it end?

To christians that are upset about it. Gay people are already accepted in parts o christianity. Get over it. Since christianity is a collection of sects, with nothing in control of all of them, no one can really do anything to turn gay people away, they can always go somewhere else. And, of course, you don't even need to be part of any sect to be christian, you can be independant of all of that, in essence forming your own brandd of it.

Why not not call it christianity? No one owns the term christian and its an umbrella term anyway.

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For example, the catholics are against divorce for any reason yet the church of england allow divorce for any reason.

Thats why Henry created the "church of England"....my exact point as to what the religious gay people should be doing. call it something else but keep what you want in terms of beliefs.

Noone can say you can not believe in Jesus , just call it something else. There are many (as you have pointed out) different sects within christianity, but they have their own names and churches.

here is one example of people who have done exactly that:

Mormons

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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I've never said christianity dropping it as sinful would make homophobia go away like that.

Have any of your constant arguments ever made people like PA think - Ok maybe this belief against homosexuals is wrong?

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Have any of your constant arguments ever made people like PA think - Ok maybe this belief against homosexuals is wrong?

Sadly no. But that doesn't automatically mean the beief is right. To me the belief that homosexuality is a sin will ALWAYS be wrong, regrdless of the variiety of excuses.

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