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Still Waters

World’s first 'gay bible' published

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No anti-homosexual passages in the Bible until 1946? That's bull****. In that case, they must have only added Leviticus and the writings of Paul in the 40s...

Leviticus is suspect. I mean the things about shrimps and slavery. Sounds to me like man made rules. St. Paul is a self appointed disciple. I don't read his work. It's full of his agenda. Gays have saints too, according to my butch queen bear friends. Saints Sergius and Bacchus.

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I have never seen you disagree with anything gay people put out. It could be gay murder and you would be like "I don't see anything wrong with it".

Are you winding me up? Seriously? If a gay murders another person then all of a sudden that is OK in my book? So according to your logic, if people stand up and think gays own rights to marry and they show no hate towards gays, this means they all turn a blind eye to crimes committed by gays?

That's like saying - If a Christian sticks up for other Christians when dabating their faith against others, that MUST mean they too will turn a blind eye if they hear of a Christian up for murder What a load of garbage, you sadly don't realise how stupid that sounds? ... Do not post such nonsense my way..seriously don't ..If I read any nonsense like that again, it will be ignored and rightly so..

Everyone cares how others feel. Let me ask you B-Mom, do you think that a brother and sister, hell even two brothers in incest should be able to get married? I ask what would be the difference between them and any other gay?

I couldn't give a monkeys who or what they choose to marry.. Marriage is not owned by me or anyone else...

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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I ask what would be the difference between them and any other gay? What would be the difference between a brother and sister in love committing incest, than two homos in love that want to get married?

Huh? are you seriously comparing the two?

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A book claiming to be the world's first 'gay bible' has been published to coincide with the debate on same-sex marriage.

Titled the 'Queen James Bible', its editors claim that it is a re-working of the King James Bible translated in a way that 'prevents homophobic misinterpretation of God's Word'.

'Homosexuality was first overtly mentioned in the Bible in 1946 in the Revised Standard Version. There is no mention of or reference to homosexuality in any Bible prior to this – only interpretations have been made', the book's official website said.

http://www.dailymail...-sentences.html

He should be arrested and prosecuted for hate crimes against religion.

The legislation protecting religious freedoms mean he isnt allowed to mock or undermine a faith which he clearly is doing.

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He should be arrested and prosecuted for hate crimes against religion.

The legislation protecting religious freedoms mean he isnt allowed to mock or undermine a faith which he clearly is doing.

It's funny how legislation 'protecting religious freedoms' allows religious people to mock and undermine gay people which would otherwise be considered something to label as hate crimes.

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It's funny how legislation 'protecting religious freedoms' allows religious people to mock and undermine gay people which would otherwise be considered something to label as hate crimes.

if they do not agree with it, then that is their right. no one has the right to say they must accept them if it is against their faith. But on that note, as i have said before, gay people should not expect them too.

Start another cult alreeeeeeady.

I have posted other people who have done it because they did not agree with the religion at the time. I am sure there are enough gay people to make up the numbers to get it sorted.

Personally i would rather not see any more cults, there top 3 main ones have done enough damage to mankind and it does not seem to be getting any better.

But thats just my opinion.

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It's all I see, we are both on a forum, you do the math.... Unless you expect me to know all you get up to in real life too?

You're the one that made the assumption that arguing on a forum is all I do.

You fail to understand what I am calling selfish. Here it is again..only this time re-worded..

IE - If a christian who believes in converting you away from what they feel is harmful, in the hopes you will turn over to their line of thinking and change to their faith ( to get you to change your mind ) . and hooray, you're saved.hallelujah praise the lord etc etc... . IF you tell them no, and explain why, clearly showing you are not interested, if he or she harps on and on at you because they cannot understand why you don't want to be saved? By them constantly harping at you, is and others will agree, can be annoying and it can look selfish to those who stand on the outside looking in.. It looks more like the Christian wanting their own way. then not only are they annoying, but its selfish

You shadow are doing the EXACT same thing.. You are looking a Christian to change his mind on a belief he holds,..You see he won't budge, he tells you why, so because you don't understand him, you harp on and on at him at any given chance

It's still not selfish. You see homosexuality is a sin being harmful is something tangible. We can see the harm it does. We can see people being denied rights, abused and murdered bycause people see their homosexuality as a sin. That is a FACT. It's undeniable.

By contrast a religious person trying to convert a gay person doesn't have any sort of proof. There's no evidence that the conversion will make the person happier. In fact, quite the contrary. There's reams of evidence that converting a gay person is harmful to the person and leads them to live a lie that harms more people.

Now when a person looks at the evidence and sees that a belief is harming people and there's proof, yet ignores and excuses it, yes it bothers me and no its not selfish. And I'm not limiting that to christians or homosexuality.

Lets say if you had a person and they were smoking a box or cigarettes tody. The evidence is clear that they will harm themselves and others. Is it selfish to try and get the person to stop then?

List me something ( reliable ) that shows christians hurting and murdering those who are gay in this day and age?

I have to leave in five minutes, so I can't give you what you want in detail.

However what comes to mind right away is christians that offer gay cures to 'pray away the gay' or conversion therapy. Those cause harm Obviously theres people too who bully relentlessly or murder people and theres a number of right wing religious morons that call for gay people to be punished.

So if PA changes his beliefs to suit what you want, in the way you want it.. All of a sudden, people from all over the world will stop their hate? Killing? Catch a grip shadow

No, but then i never said that. It'd show me that people can change.

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This is Hilarious - Queen James Bible. Haha. They're celebrating it too, check out this video here at 2.51, they're positively thrilled.

[media=]

[/media]

I think the guy in the video is gay

peace

mark

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He should be arrested and prosecuted for hate crimes against religion.

The legislation protecting religious freedoms mean he isnt allowed to mock or undermine a faith which he clearly is doing.

Why exactly should this guy be arrested and prosecuted? Disagreeing with a religious viewpoint is not against the law of the United States (I'm no expert in United States law, but I'm pretty sure a person can print whatever they like provided it doesn't fall under the umbrella of "hate speech". And that includes a mistranslation of a Bible if they so wish it.

~ PA

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You're the one that made the assumption

It's not an assumption, I speak only about the forum, I am not speaking about anything other than what is being said on a forum.. I call it how I see it on.......a forum !!

It's still not selfish.

Yes it is, if you are harping on at people to change their minds to suit what you want , then others can see it as selfish, even if you don't Religious people do not think when they harp on at others non stop as selfish either, but others from the outside can see it as such

By contrast a religious person trying to convert a gay person doesn't have any sort of proof. There's no evidence that the conversion will make the person happier.

Whether we see evidence of it or not, it is still their beliefs, they wouldn't hang on to them IF they thought they were wrong..

Lets say if you had a person and they were smoking a box or cigarettes tody. The evidence is clear that they will harm themselves and others. Is it selfish to try and get the person to stop then?

It is ok to give them sound advice, but if you harp on and on at them about their life choices, then YES it most certainly is selfish.. It is their body, their life.. If they tell you no, then leave them be... You know why this is? I will put it in bold to lay the emphasis - Because people ( even you ) hate being harped at to change who you are, what you believe and your way of doing things.. This you cannot deny..

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Does anyone know how many religious gay people there are in comparison to how many non religious gay there are?

because the religious gays are pretty loud if there are only a few?

reminds me of islam, the minority radicals are much louder than those who are not radical.

is this how it is going to be now, religious people ONCE AGAIN causing a divide and creating more mayhem?

So if someone has a stat, cos I can`t find one, on the % of religious gays to those who are not, then I would be grateful, it will either prove my point or dispute it.

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I think the guy in the video is gay

peace

mark

Of course he is gay, he is just sunk in the pool of denial

He reminds me of the gay character from the sitcom - Gimme Gimme Gimme.. The gay sales man who meets Tom, goes out with Tom and later tells Tom - "Are you seriously saying that I am gay? How absurd you silly man, I happen to be.......a heterosexual man who likes to sleep with gay men... all right? .. He too was playing a gay man in denial and forced himself in to a straight marriage..

Michael Barrymore tried that too.. Lived in denial thinking the gay will just float away..................But it never does

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Yes it is, if you are harping on at people to change their minds to suit what you want , then others can see it as selfish, even if you don't Religious people do not think when they harp on at others non stop as selfish either, but others from the outside can see it as such

Ah so it's always selfish to get people to change their mind, even to avoid provable harm.

Whether we see evidence of it or not, it is still their beliefs, they wouldn't hang on to them IF they thought they were wrong..

Let me use an example I used earlier with PA. A terrorist sincerely believes that they should go and kill people for their god. They don't think what they're doing is wrong. So should we let the terrorist kill people?

It is ok to give them sound advice, but if you harp on and on at them about their life choices, then YES it most certainly is selfish.. It is their body, their life.. If they tell you no, then leave them be... You know why this is? I will put it in bold to lay the emphasis - Because people ( even you ) hate being harped at to change who you are, what you believe and your way of doing things.. This you cannot deny..

Ah, so it's selfish to try and stop people from harming themselves and others. I have to say, I'm not familiar with that interpretation of selfishness.

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I said once to PA why I considered it important to get him to change his mind. Other than that one belief, he otherwise seems an intelligent, reasoned person. Yet despite that, he clings to that belief. To me, changing his mind is important for a simple reason. If an intelligent, reasoned person like him can change his mind, than anyone can. However, he doesn't and thatto me is a problem. Because if an otherwise reasonable person like him can't change his mind, despite all the evidence before him, what hope is there for (say) the catholic church or other groupos that pursue the believe with voracaious ferocity?

Well then put your mind at rest: intelligent reasoned people, and intelligent reasoned Christians, have changed their mind about homosexuality. I don't see any reason to set up PA as the exemplar of Christian thought towards homosexuality as if he is the person who it is most important to convince or change.

At some level I do agree with you to some extent, the belief that homosexuality is a sin can and does motivate actual discrimination and abuse of gay people. I'm a little torn on this as I don't think the disapproval of homosexuality, even if you treat gays themselves with love and respect, has absolutely no effect, any more than I think that a racist who merely expresses his beliefs is entirely harmless; there is an environment of discrimination against these minorities that this disapproval is occurring in. But I don't know that any specific Christian is required to believe or do any of the following based on their belief that it is a sin:

- agitate for anti-gay laws

- view homosexuality as any worse than any other sin, simple fornication is a sin also

- treat gays with disrespect (Christians are supposed to do the exact opposite actually)

I can't speak to where PA sits on any of this, and I don't think I want to slog through a year's worth of conversation between you and him, but to me the above considerations are far more important than, and not inevitable derivations from, the idea that homosexuality is a sin for some Christians. Especially since all Christians are sinners themselves.

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if they do not agree with it, then that is their right. no one has the right to say they must accept them if it is against their faith. But on that note, as i have said before, gay people should not expect them too.

Start another cult alreeeeeeady.

I have posted other people who have done it because they did not agree with the religion at the time. I am sure there are enough gay people to make up the numbers to get it sorted.

Personally i would rather not see any more cults, there top 3 main ones have done enough damage to mankind and it does not seem to be getting any better.

But thats just my opinion.

As I've said before I don't understnad why gay people are religious, bhowever that doesn't escape the fact that there are.

Why should gay christians make an 'entirely new cult'? As I've said before, christianity itself is made up of dozens of factions all with slightly different beliefs By your logic, only one group should be called christians and everyone else can't.

Like I said, there are factions in christianity that are accepting and churches that are too. Who has the right to say that those aren't 'true christians'? Who has the right to say they should call themselves something else? You apparently.

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Ah so it's always selfish to get people to change their mind, even to avoid provable harm.

I seriously doubt PA or anyone like him would favour harm...PA may hold a belief that homosexuality is wrong, but he doesn't think it is right to hurt others over it.. Holding the beleif is wrong is one thing, but hurting others is another

They don't think what they're doing is wrong. So should we let the terrorist kill people?

If you walked up to a terrorist and told them not to shoot anyone, what do you think would happen?

Ah, so it's selfish to try and stop people from harming themselves and others.

Who is PA harming?.......... I have debated with PA and gotten into some mad arguments in my time, but I cannot ever see PA going all out to harm others..I don't even think he believes in hurting anyone. It's a belief that gay is sinful. Over a billion Christians all hold the same belief.. Not all of them will think - Yea lets harm others for it.. If they do, that makes them hypocrites, for every last one of them are not sin free ..

It is selfish to harp on at a Christian because of a belief they hold... All because you cannot understand it.. Be honest here, I doubt even PA knows why it was ever written as sinful.. All he knows, it is written and that's how it is..If I am wrong in saying this, then I am sure PA will correct me

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Be honest here, I doubt even PA knows why it was ever written as sinful.. All he knows, it is written and that's how it is..If I am wrong in saying this, then I am sure PA will correct me

I'd rather not encourage disagreement and argument over this, considering.... but there are strong theological considerations for why it is considered a "sin" (mostly to do with the purpose of marriage, and the expectation of the male-female relationship). But to focus on this would be to ignore the wider point that (as you also say) no Christian should ever have the Right to cause harm to a gay person over this issue.
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I seriously doubt PA or anyone like him would favour harm...PA may hold a belief that homosexuality is wrong, but he doesn't think it is right to hurt others over it.. Holding the beleif is wrong is one thing, but hurting others is another

There are many forms of harm. There's physical harm, psychological harm, emotional harm and spiritual harm. The trouble is that christians like PA are against one form of harm (the physical) and seem to think that the rest are permissible.

If you walked up to a terrorist and told them not to shoot anyone, what do you think would happen?

If there was a terrist threatening to shoot people than realistically I'd freeze But I'd like to be brave enough to stop him by force (and would be completely ok with other people or police doing that).

Who is PA harming?.......... I have debated with PA and gotten into some mad arguments in my time, but I cannot ever see PA going all out to harm others..I don't even think he believes in hurting anyone. It's a belief that gay is sinful. Over a billion Christians all hold the same belief.. Not all of them will think - Yea lets harm others for it.. If they do, that makes them hypocrites, for every last one of them are not sin free ..

It is selfish to harp on at a Christian because of a belief they hold... All because you cannot understand it.. Be honest here, I doubt even PA knows why it was ever written as sinful.. All he knows, it is written and that's how it is..If I am wrong in saying this, then I am sure PA will correct me

Like I said above: thre are many types of harm Just because he doesn't want christians stoned to death, doesn't exonerate him from thinking that gay christians shouldn't have relationships and that he'd willfully be a party to forcing anyone in a relationship out his church as a result.

So because I can't understand it I should say nothing? And if a christian doesn't understand it, they should just shut up and follow it blindly?

Following something just because it's written comes off as being incredibly stupid.

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I'd rather not encourage disagreement and argument over this, considering.... but there are strong theological considerations for why it is considered a "sin" (mostly to do with the purpose of marriage, and the expectation of the male-female relationship). But to focus on this would be to ignore the wider point that (as you also say) no Christian should ever have the Right to cause harm to a gay person over this issue.

I think it could be because people back in those days feared what they didn't understand..If it didn't look normal then it must be wrong...

To explain what I mean.. Becky was watching a funny game show, where one man ( kidding around) kissed another man on his mouth..Becky sat there with her mouth open ( looking like she was catching flies ) and she turned to her dad and said - Oh no, they kissed, that is yucky, its not normal, he should have kissed the woman beside him, but eeww he kissed another man... Thing is, her dad and I did not teach her that it was not normal for two guys to kiss.. She naturally thought and felt it looked odd It could be human nature, if it doesn't look or feel right, then it must be wrong... Becky doesn't understand gays, all she thought was - That is wrong ..It's not her fault, its just the way human nature can strike so many of us...

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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There are many forms of harm. There's physical harm, psychological harm, emotional harm and spiritual harm. The trouble is that christians like PA are against one form of harm (the physical) and seem to think that the rest are permissible.

You are seriously clutching at straws... I cannot imagine PA wanting to harm anyone emotionally ....I have never seen him say anything hurtful to anyone

If there was a terrist threatening to shoot people than realistically I'd freeze But I'd like to be brave enough to stop him by force

What you have in your head is one thing, what you face in reality is another.. There is no way you would tell a terrorist to stop it, it's wrong. People pick and choose who they feel is a safer bet to harp at...

Like I said above: thre are many types of harm Just because he doesn't want christians stoned to death, doesn't exonerate him from thinking that gay christians shouldn't have relationships and that he'd willfully be a party to forcing anyone in a relationship out his church as a result.

PA wouldn't want anyone else to get hurt over sin.. I said that previously

So because I can't understand it I should say nothing?

No, continue to bore the living crap out of anyone reading .. Repeat the same things over and over.. We all love re-runs

And if a christian doesn't understand it, they should just shut up and follow it blindly?

Anyone with an ounce of sense will know when to step back and allow others to believe in what they life.. A Christian can offer others advice on their faith, but they can step away if the other person doesn't want to know.. It would be stupid to harp on and on.. It can lead to more harm than it's worth

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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I have never seen him say anything hurtful to anyone

I'm no perfect being, and I'm sure I have said things hurtful, though never meaningful, and I've apologised the day after for letting my negativity get the best of me (I know, I'm almost certain I've had some run in with you in the past).

But I see your point, I do not knowingly or intentionally want to harm any other soul, regardless of their spiritual or moral views (and that's not just about physical violence either, I don't want any kind of hurt racked up against another human being).

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You are seriously clutching at straws... I cannot imagine PA wanting to harm anyone emotionally ....I have never seen him say anything hurtful to anyone

And that's the worst thing. He (and other christians) don't think they're hurting anyone. They just won't accept it, even though they are. They just think it's ok because they're following the bible and they should get other peope to as well, offten putting vulenerable people at risk.

What you have in your head is one thing, what you face in reality is another.. There is no way you would tell a terrorist to stop it, it's wrong. People pick and choose who they feel is a safer bet to harp at...

Perhaps I should have worded it differently. If you knew someone was going to kill another person (even if they thought it was justified) would you let them? Would you try and calm them down? Would you warn the person they were going to kill? Would you call the police? Or would you simply shrug, do nothing and let it play out? After all they think they're justified so that's all that matters.

PA wouldn't want anyone else to get hurt over sin.. I said that previously

Again that depends doesn't it.

Awhile ago I asked him what he'd do if a gay person came to him and wanted advice on asking someone out. He said he'd encourage them to go for it UNLESS they were a christian, then he'd do the opposite. So he'd willingly try and prevent someone from finding love from having a loving, fulfilling relationship if they were christian. Now that, to me, sounds like harming someone emtionally because that's exactly what denying someone the chance of finding love is.

No, continue to bore the living crap out of anyone reading .. Repeat the same things over and over.. We all love re-runs

If it bores you so much, you don't have to read it This is a pretty big forum (and the internet and world is even bigger) so you could easily read something else. No one is forcing you to read, I'm not standing behind you with a gun to your head saying 'read everything I post'. If what I post bothers you that much there's the ignore option, which no one is going to stop you using.

Anyone with an ounce of sense will know when to step back and allow others to believe in what they life.. A Christian can offer others advice on their faith, but they can step away if the other person doesn't want to know.. It would be stupid to harp on and on.. It can lead to more harm than it's worth

I'm not apathetic enough to step away when harm's being done and I'm not willing to let people get away with a belief that leads to suffering. As I've said before, this isn't something like a difference of opinion (like arguing over favourite movies or music) this is something that effects peoples lives. Maintaining the belief and letting it fester isn't going to do anyone any good.

This is a belief that has no positive benefit to humanity, yet it's something that obviously creates negativity and so it's not worth maintaining or defending.

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Well then put your mind at rest: intelligent reasoned people, and intelligent reasoned Christians, have changed their mind about homosexuality. I don't see any reason to set up PA as the exemplar of Christian thought towards homosexuality as if he is the person who it is most important to convince or change.

I'm glad they have. I'm still disappointed that he doesn't change even though his change won't matter.

At some level I do agree with you to some extent, the belief that homosexuality is a sin can and does motivate actual discrimination and abuse of gay people. I'm a little torn on this as I don't think the disapproval of homosexuality, even if you treat gays themselves with love and respect, has absolutely no effect, any more than I think that a racist who merely expresses his beliefs is entirely harmless; there is an environment of discrimination against these minorities that this disapproval is occurring in. But I don't know that any specific Christian is required to believe or do any of the following based on their belief that it is a sin:

- agitate for anti-gay laws

- view homosexuality as any worse than any other sin, simple fornication is a sin also

- treat gays with disrespect (Christians are supposed to do the exact opposite actually)

I can't speak to where PA sits on any of this, and I don't think I want to slog through a year's worth of conversation between you and him, but to me the above considerations are far more important than, and not inevitable derivations from, the idea that homosexuality is a sin for some Christians. Especially since all Christians are sinners themselves.

I think there's no way for the dissapproval to be done in a way that's loving and respectful. The disapproval is still there, simmering beneath the surface and it absolutely has an effect. The biggest effect being that it means that discrimination can still be taught and used as long as it's framed in a 'loving and respectful' manner.

A christian isn't required to do those things, yet you wouldn't think it would you? Christian groups (and muslim ones) are those that call for antigay laws.. Christians seem to treat and view homosexuality as worse, certainly in the manner they treat people. Lastly respect for gay people seems to go out the window with christians but as long as they say 'hate the sin love the sinner' or similar its excusable.

As to him well at least he doesn't do one and he claims to respect gay people, though I'm still incredibly troubled by anyone that claims to respect gay people while calling their sexual orientation and loving relationships sinful.

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And that's the worst thing. He (and other christians) don't think they're hurting anyone. They just won't accept it, even though they are. They just think it's ok because they're following the bible and they should get other peope to as well, offten putting vulenerable people at risk.

To me, it depends on how they put it across .. If for example, a christian says to you - I believe it is sinful to be gay.. That itself as we know is part of their faith.. We don't agree with it, but then again, it's not our faith On the other hand, if a christian says to you - You will burn in hell for being gay, I hope you do .. That itself and how it was worded is spiteful, and the christian who used those words knows it..He or she will pretend it's not spiteful because their bible says so.. All of that will come from direct ignorance As I point out there is a difference and it depends on how it is worded ...

Perhaps I should have worded it differently.

I thought you might, considering you admitted you would freeze facing a terrorist....Truth is, you are right, you would freeze and keep your mouth closed, because you know saying something to that terrorist can put you at harm too...This is why people will cherry pick what they feel is safer to complain about

If you knew someone was going to kill another person (even if they thought it was justified) would you let them? Would you try and calm them down? Would you warn the person they were going to kill? Would you call the police? Or would you simply shrug, do nothing and let it play out? After all they think they're justified so that's all that matters.

Have you moved the goal posts from a terrorist to some average Joe ?

Awhile ago I asked him what he'd do if a gay person came to him and wanted advice on asking someone out. He said he'd encourage them to go for it UNLESS they were a christian, then he'd do the opposite. So he'd willingly try and prevent someone from finding love from having a loving, fulfilling relationship if they were christian. Now that, to me, sounds like harming someone emtionally because that's exactly what denying someone the chance of finding love is.

Here's what I think he would do.. In real life, if he knew they were a christian, he would likely remind them of the sin itself, but if he saw how serious the person was, I doubt he would have the heart to prevent anyone from finding love.. PA knows that he cannot judge this, only god can ..What people post up on a board is one thing, in real life it can be different .. Even if he were to do what you just mentioned, the gay christian can easily shrug it off and go and do his own things regardless ..A gay christian is not going to think - Well if PA says its wrong, then I must stop it..The gay christian cannot help it or stop it.. He can try but it is not easy....

If it bores you so much, you don't have to read it

I own a right to read the thread... I also own the rights to say what I feel is constantly repetitive...

I'm not apathetic enough to step away when harm's being done and I'm not willing to let people get away with a belief that leads to suffering.

OK then, share with me, what do you do ( besides what you post on here ) in real life, to try and change peoples beliefs?

Maintaining the belief and letting it fester isn't going to do anyone any good.

You are living proof of that....You maintain your beliefs, you allow them to fester, you cling to them so tight, and you keep at others to change their minds.. It doesn't do you any good, in fact, from reading the forum, I have yet to see you change the minds of the religious...You allow it all to get to you, annoy you, even hurt you emotionally.. At times you may feel angered by a few anti gay posts you read... None of this does you any good

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To me, it depends on how they put it across .. If for example, a christian says to you - I believe it is sinful to be gay.. That itself as we know is part of their faith.. We don't agree with it, but then again, it's not our faith On the other hand, if a christian says to you - You will burn in hell for being gay, I hope you do .. That itself and how it was worded is spiteful, and the christian who used those words knows it..He or she will pretend it's not spiteful because their bible says so.. All of that will come from direct ignorance As I point out there is a difference and it depends on how it is worded ...

There is a difference in wording and yes, one is more spiteful But I'd not shower the first one in roses and praise for phrasing it in a nice way. Chances are, they believe the same as the other one anyway.

I thought you might, considering you admitted you would freeze facing a terrorist....Truth is, you are right, you would freeze and keep your mouth closed, because you know saying something to that terrorist can put you at harm too...This is why people will cherry pick what they feel is safer to complain about

Have you moved the goal posts from a terrorist to some average Joe ?

The point I was trying to get across, which you purposely ignored and instead focussed on the terrorist part is this. If we know people are harming others por intending to and we can prevent it should we? Or should doing something only depend oon how justified the person feels in doing it?

Here's what I think he would do.. In real life, if he knew they were a christian, he would likely remind them of the sin itself, but if he saw how serious the person was, I doubt he would have the heart to prevent anyone from finding love.. PA knows that he cannot judge this, only god can ..What people post up on a board is one thing, in real life it can be different .. Even if he were to do what you just mentioned, the gay christian can easily shrug it off and go and do his own things regardless ..A gay christian is not going to think - Well if PA says its wrong, then I must stop it..The gay christian cannot help it or stop it.. He can try but it is not easy....

We won't know most likely (unless he decides to answer which I doubt). But somehow I doubt the sincerity of the person would matter all that much. Their faith would.

Also before he said that if they were part of the church, hed mobilise. If he couldn't do anything he'd get the congregation and pastor to do something. In other words, he'd get other people to apply pressure to this person so they dont 'stray'. Real loving.

I own a right to read the thread... I also own the rights to say what I feel is constantly repetitive...

I never said you didn't. And I'm in my right to question why you keep reading when you don't have to.

OK then, share with me, what do you do ( besides what you post on here ) in real life, to try and change peoples beliefs?

Sadly, location works against me. I'm in a rural area and that pretty much prevents me from doing much locally. Since I'm now studying again (at home again due to my location) my time is mostly taken up with poring over text books and assignments, with little time to do much else. (As soon as I've done this post it's back to it.) I've tried to get a little more involved in local politics. The same sex marriage consultation? I was part of it. I also sent a letter to my MP to persaude him to vote for it. (I'm glad he was one of the yes people when the vote ccame to it.)

I do wish I could do more, but like I said, it's down to the twin issues of location and time, which have always worked against me.

]You are living proof of that[/b]....You maintain your beliefs, you allow them to fester, you cling to them so tight, and you keep at others to change their minds.. It doesn't do you any good, in fact, from reading the forum, I have yet to see you change the minds of the religious...You allow it all to get to you, annoy you, even hurt you emotionally.. At times you may feel angered by a few anti gay posts you read... None of this does you any good

And I do not encourage harm against those people in any form and yet I'm the bad guy in this situation. I've never caused people physical, emotional or psychological harm like those that think homosexuality is a sin, yet someone I'm worse.

There are things in life that are deserving of anger and I've never been an advocate for discarding emotions.

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