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Still Waters

Obama 'backs assault weapons ban'

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so in order for you not to sell guns to your neighbour we need to take all your guns away, right??

or we could just hold you responcible for any crime that will be commited with YOUR gun. it doesn't matter that you didn't kill your neighbor gf, you are responcible for it. since guns you sold are yours.

oh wait, we already do so.

also how did you get your guns in a first place? did you buy them legaly? filled out special required form, had your background chack ran (done at every gun shop), and gun serial # is next to your name?? and you telling me you would just sell them with no record of it????

All my guns are legal. Nope, didn't fill out a special form for all of them. Nope, didn't have to get a background check for all of them. Nope, there is not a form for all of them with a serial number.

What I said is that I don't have to have any type of paperwork or registration or check to sell my weapons to anyone I want.

Nibs

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The difference is in passing certain requirements or tests for obtaining guns, and having to store them properly.

we already have that. and yes it is about takeing guns away, politicians openly say it.

Edited by aztek

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we already have that.

Really? What state requires restricted storage?

Training?

Nibs

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lol, nice try. but your question doesn't make any sense.if you wanted to run over bunch of kids crossing the road and were allowed to drive a car, do you think that is how it should be?

Do you normally like to avoid giving a decent answer? or are you just making a special effort for me? You are completely avoiding my question because it seems you know that it would not be right to sell you or anyone a gun knowing you are going to use it to kill and only kill others ( murder sprees )

well there is no law that prohibits selling guns to someone YOU consider an idiot. only criminals and metaly disturbed. nra has nothing to do with it. they support not lettting those ppl have a gun,

I also previously said- Does this mean it should be dead easy for ANY muppet to get a gun?.. This means anyone..Whether they be an idiot, mentally disturbed and so on.. Your answer was - YES ... I find that completely nonsensical ..

no it is not, there is no legal way to sell guns to ireland, unless it is gvmnt backed contract.

Yes there was legal way or them to purchase guns from the US..They had their connections ( family members and friends who lived there ) to help them get them and it made it so easy for any one of them to get the guns and ship them elsewhere.. This was well known fact over here.

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Really? What state requires restricted storage?

Training?

Nibs

i know my city does. when licensed (in my city we need licenses too) owner is not on premesies, when he is, he has every right to carry loaded gun on him on that property.

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What is your city? And how do you have to store your gun?

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i know my city does. when licensed (in my city we need licenses too) owner is not on premesies, when he is, he has every right to carry loaded gun on him on that property.

In your city do you need a license for ANY type of gun? Training as well? Is it a requirement to store all weapons safely and securely when not in use?

BTW - what you said is NOT true for the entire country.

Nibs

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Do you normally like to avoid giving a decent answer? or are you just making a special effort for me? You are completely avoiding my question because it seems you know that it would not be right to sell you or anyone a gun knowing you are going to use it to kill and only kill others

I also previously said- Does this mean it should be dead easy for ANY muppet to get a gun?.. This means anyone..Whether they be an idiot, mentally disturbed and so on.. Your answer was - YES ... I find that completely nonsensical ..

Yes there was legal way or them to purchase guns from the US..They had their connections ( family members and friends who lived there ) to help them get them and it made it so easy for any one of them to get the guns and ship them elsewhere.. This was well known fact over here.

sorry i'm not answering question that don't make sence, or tricky. do you kill ppl before or after dinner?

if there was leagal way (actually there is, but fee is 300-600 for each gun, tons of paper work, custom forms, compliance..) that what do you complaing about, if your terrorists used it to kill your citizens, it is their fault, isn't it? oh, there is also a Arms Export Control Act.

hey, my cat was ran over by a bmw, should i blame german export laws, and germans in general?

i told you many times there is no such defenition as muppet, or idiot in usa law, only criminals and mentaly disrerbed, if they have history of violent mental disorders, than they are not allowed to even touch a gun, same for felons.

we don't deny a right to somneone you don't like. law is the same for everyone here. you are innocent untill proven guilty, at least we try to keep it that way.

to know better what you mean, define muppet, and idiot.

Edited by aztek

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In your city do you need a license for ANY type of gun? Training as well? Is it a requirement to store all weapons safely and securely when not in use?

BTW - what you said is NOT true for the entire country.

Nibs

yes for any type of gun. if you want to know more go to nyc.gov, no laws that require training, however there is an interview with detective before you issued a lisence, along with 9 monuth (for pistols) and 2 mount for rifles investigation.you right not true for entire country, in state of vermont there is no lisence requirment, no restriction, anyone can carry. (not felons and mental patients), yet its crime rate lower than any state, way lower.

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And you conclude it is because of the gun laws?

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yes for any type of gun. if you want to know more go to nyc.gov, no laws that require training, however there is an interview with detective before you issued a lisence, along with 9 monuth (for pistols) and 2 mount for rifles investigation.you right not true for entire country, in state of vermont there is no lisence requirment, no restriction, anyone can carry. (not felons and mental patients), yet its crime rate lower than any state, way lower.

So no training. No special requirements for storage.

New York City Laws

Hmm...you can't even have one loaded at home.

So, you abide by all these laws and have a problem with having the rest of the country abide by even fewer?

I don't understand.

Nibs

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sorry i'm not answering question that don't make sence, or tricky. do you kill ppl before or after dinner?

Really? I would say yes indeed it does make sense.. Here is exactly how this came to be...

So basically make it dead easy for any muppet to buy a gun ?

.. and your answer was.....

legaly it is easy already, and that is how it should be. for those that qualify,

I read this and thought to ask you a hypothetical question ..And so I put this to you...

Hypothetically - If you wanted to go on a mad killing spree and you were allowed to purchase a gun . Do you think that's how it should be ?

And for some reason you fail to give a decent answer because you think it doesn't make sense.. Thing is, from what and how this conversation went.. When I said ANY muppet, that means ANY ONE.. So, I therefore had to ask you that question to see if you STILL thought yes anyone should be given a gun ? You know fine well that if anyone who was disturbed enough to want to go off on killing sprees, should not be allowed to buy a gun..Therefore the laws logically should be tightened and make it harder for people to get guns..

This is NOT saying ALL gun owners should hand their weapons over, nor is it suggesting ban all guns.. It is suggesting to tighten the gun laws up tighter and be more careful on who you sell guns to...

if your terrorists used it to kill your citizens, it is their fault, isn't it?

I never suggested for a second it wasn't.. But I did point out that it was made easier for them going to the US... If it was a lot harder for them to purchase them an harder elsewhere, then not as many would have been easily shot over here...

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i love how you convenietly missed or ignored frase anyone that qualified.

i also seriously boubt that it was easier to buy guns from usa, than from orginized crime gun runners. unless we looking at early version of fast and furious.

in that case it is gvmt conrtoled sale, so you want them to control my guns even thou they can't even control theirs??

Edited by aztek

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And you conclude it is because of the gun laws?

no, i just see facts, they have easiest gun laws, and lowest crime. as opposed to my state with strongst laws and highest crime. i can't be sure that it is gun laws make the state safe, but they sure don't make it dangerous.what do you think?

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i love how you convenietly missed or ignored frase anyone that qualified.

It is a lot easier in the US for a citizen to buy a gun, the checks are not that hard to pass though.. This mean any idiot or mental person can keep up their drive by shooting and murder sprees..

A lot of Americans have admitted it is easy enough for anyone to get a gun. I once watched a documentary, where a bank ( Ironically ) was handing out free guns for those opening accounts . Heck, you have TV shows like the Simpsons taking the p** out of it all.. It's common knowledge..Many idiots who are not responsible to keep guns will be more risky than those who do..But because it is easier to get their guns, any wonder you face tragic events by the gun... ..

I am willing to bet that those who first put out the second amendment, had no idea what future generations would be doing and abusing the rights to own guns..

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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It is a lot easier in the US for a citizen to buy a gun, the checks are not that hard to pass though.. This mean any idiot or mental person can keep up their drive by shooting and murder sprees..

A lot of Americans have admitted it is easy enough for anyone to get a gun. I once watched a documentary, where a bank ( Ironically ) was handing out free guns for those opening accounts . Heck, you have TV shows like the Simpsons taking the P** out of it all.. It's common knowledge..Many idiots who are not responsible to keep guns will be more risky than those who do..But because it is easier to get their guns, any wonder you face tragic events by the gun... ..

I am willing to bet that those who first put out the second amendment, had no idea what future generations would be doing and abusing the rights to own guns..

that is a lie, nobody handing out guns, i already debunked this myth before, they gave out vouchers to a gun store where you could get a gun, IF you qualify.

it is easy to get a gun in usa FOR THOSE THAT QUALIFY, and that is how it shoul be. felons, and mentals are not allowed, come here and try it yourself.

however sometimes it does happen, not much with felons, those that are on the list, but sickos can slip thru, yes they should be there, and it is doctors fault they are not reported, and that is authotities fault that they are let out and walking the streets. it is not fault of law abiding gun owners.

Edited by aztek

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The problem I see is how is someone going to be determined mentally ill? Are they going to be denied because their family has a history of it? It wasn't too long ago that being gay was considered a mental illness. Some people think if you even want or own a gun you are mentally ill. There are many levels of mental illness. I read somewhere not too long ago that everyone has some form of mental illness be it hoarding or being an introvert. Who is going to make the call whether someone is ill enough not to be able to legally own a gun?

Edited by Michelle
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The problem I see is how is someone going to be determined mentally ill? Are they going to be denied because their family has a history of it? It wasn't too long ago that being gay was considered a mental illness. Some people think if you even want or own a gun you are mentally ill. There are many levels of mental illness. I recently read somewhere not too long ago that everyone has some form of mental illness be it hoarding or being an introvert. Who is going to make the call whether someone is ill enough not to be able to legally own a gun?

excelent point. also whoever is making that call is responcible for it, so if he cleard a person, and person snapped, the doc. will be responcible, there is no way they will take that responcibuility, so they will fail everyone, just in case they snap.

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The problem I see is how is someone going to be determined mentally ill? Are they going to be denied because their family has a history of it? It wasn't too long ago that being gay was considered a mental illness. Some people think if you even want or own a gun you are mentally ill. There are many levels of mental illness. I recently read somewhere not too long ago that everyone has some form of mental illness be it hoarding or being an introvert. Who is going to make the call whether someone is ill enough not to be able to legally own a gun?

Yes where's the federal bureau of PhD psychological testing that will be administered to our population.

Even an eating disorder is a mental illness and I believe that everyone with an eating disorder can have a gun.

Mental illness is also not the fault of that ill person. Nobody chooses to have these incurable imbalances. Mental illness has real physical consequences, to body mind and spirit. When people view it akin to cancer, we will have progress in our society I think.

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that is a lie, nobody handing out guns, i already debunked this myth before, they gave out vouchers to a gun store where you could get a gun, IF you qualify.

it is easy to get a gun in usa FOR THOSE THAT QUALIFY, and that is how it shoul be. felons, and mentals are not allowed, come here and try it yourself.

however sometimes it does happen, not much with felons, those that are on the list, but sickos can slip thru, yes they should be there, and it is doctors fault they are not reported, and that is authotities fault that they are let out and walking the streets. it is not fault of law abiding gun owners.

It doesn't take much to qualify ...If you haven't got a criminal record and you haven't renounced your citizenship and over 18, then you can easily apply and get your gun Just pay a few dollars and it's sorted...They make it easy to promote their gun sales...If they made it difficult, their sales would go titanic..

Try doing it in the UK and Ireland, it is not as easy..

You say mentels are not allowed, but how can they tell who is and who is not mental ? ( bar those who have proven records from mental health departments ) If it is not on record ( most likely never looked at by any doctor ) then how can they tell? How many people with mental issues and problems go to a GP ? So if they go to a gun store, and their background is checked no felony's no records of mental health.. they get their guns..

And is it easy to carry guns in the US ?

An article I just came across states....

Why It's Getting Easier to Carry Guns in the U.S.A.

In light of the recent shooting in an Oregon mall and Friday’s school shooting in Connecticut, it’s worth it to look at the conditions that have made it easier to manufacture and market firearms in the U.S. Consider the following developments:—Republican-dominated legislatures in at least four states are poised to consider allowing employees to bring guns to work.

—Smith & Wesson (SWHC) reported record sales for its most recent quarter, up 48 percent from a year earlier.

—Florida announced it will soon become the first state to have issued 1 million permits allowing people to carry concealed guns.

—An influential federal appeals court struck down an Illinois law prohibiting civilians from carrying a loaded handgun outside their home or business.

The American gun market, estimated at $2 billion to $3 billion a year, has had its ups and downs over the decades.

Since the 2008 election of President Barack Obama, however, firearm manufacturers and their vocalally, the National Rifle Association, have enjoyed an extraordinary boom, based heavily on fear marketing.

The industry pitch: Obama plans to restrict, if not confiscate, your guns. This has sent hundreds of thousands of people to their Main Street gun shop or firearm website, propelled by the notion that they better buy while they can.

The twist is that while Obama occasionally murmurs about gun control, he has done nothing to make it more difficult to lawfully acquire or carry firearms. The president and his advisers fear a political backlash (and, on substance, may worry that tinkering with gun laws will not actually affect crime rates in a substantial way).http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-13/for-gun-makers-nra-good-times-get-better... http://www.businessw...imes-get-better

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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well yea, if you are not felon, (even diu arrest is not a ground to deny a sale), i don't see why you should not be able get a gun.

as for mentals, well if you were in mental institution and was sent there by state it will be on the record.

as for the rest, you can't tell, how do you suggest we weed out potential sickos??? deny sale to everyone?? just in case? send eveyone to a doc to get cleared? they wont clear anyone, for the reason i explained above.

as for carrying, in some states it is easy, in others almost imposible.

but is doen't matter how easy it is to carry legaly, criminals don't carry legaly, and don't buy guns from stores.

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well yea, if you are not felon, (even diu arrest is not a ground to deny a sale), i don't see why you should not be able get a gun.

It is still a lot easier to get a gun in the US than it would be in my own country.. Felon or no felon

well if you were in mental institution and was sent there by state it will be on the record.

.I did say -->( bar those who have proven records from mental health departments ) Obviously I noted it beforehand..You are repeating my post

as for the rest, you can't tell,

I mentioned that too in my previous post.. Do you actually read anything I post? Or is your new years resolution is to argue regardless ?

how do you suggest we weed out potential sickos??? deny sale to everyone??

Submit yourself to a psychological profile test? Should that be a requirement ?

send eveyone to a doc to get cleared?

Now you're getting it

they wont clear anyone

They won't clear you if you fail.. That will be tough on whoever fails

come here and try it yourself.

I am not a felon, nor do I have a mental record.. But see, if I came over there and great background check, I would need to be a citizen... If I were a citizen ..I would get one no probs

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Send everyone to the doctor to get cleared? It would end up the same as the medical marijuana cards that they hand out like candy in California. Or the doctors people go to to get disability. Some of the doctors would make a fortune letting people slide who shouldn't have either one. It would be another useless cost in the price of owning a legal gun.

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that wont work here.

no doctor is willing to put his carrier or future on the line in even small instance they miss something, i would not, even if the guy sound normal today, there is 0,001% he will snap tomorow. and i'm not taking that chance. neither will any doctor. there are many details in us that you need to live here to know. they pay about 5k a month insurance, (those that i know) it will pbly tripple, since the cost of their mistake in such evaluation can be huge.

not to mention it is still a right protected by constitution. i'd like to see driver license renewal are done only after mental\physical evaluation, a lot more ppl die on the roads.

Edited by aztek

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Send everyone to the doctor to get cleared? It would end up the same as the medical marijuana cards that they hand out like candy in California. Or the doctors people go to to get disability. Some of the doctors would make a fortune letting people slide who shouldn't have either one. It would be another useless cost in the price of owning a legal gun.

i think it would be just the opposite, pot cards are different, no one gets killed if doc gives it to someone for $$$ under the table, if doc clears someone and they go postal, doc will be screwed. and his ins will have to pay out a lot more, not to mention now you can sue docs for wrong assesment, oh and lawers will love it, docs ins and themselves have a lot of $$$ potential.

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