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Winter Summer

Vaccine Hoax is Over

106 posts in this topic

Because vaccines only work on a herd principle. Its the bargin we make to live in large cities and not have plagues killing us off at regular intervals. Some things are more important than personal choice.

Br Cornelius

Doesnt the herd principle state that even those who didnt get the vaccine will be protected cause the majority had been vaccinated? What about the admited cases where measle out breaks happened even in places where 99% of the population where vaccinated, and 95% still had measle antibodies in there system?

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Doesnt the herd principle state that even those who didnt get the vaccine will be protected cause the majority had been vaccinated? What about the admited cases where measle out breaks happened even in places where 99% of the population where vaccinated, and 95% still had measle antibodies in there system?

THE HERD PRINCIPLE protects those unvaccinated but only up to a point of 95% coverage. The recent Dr wakefield caused scare campaign meant that coverage fell below the required 95% and numerous small outbreaks occurred.

Vaccines are not 100% effective so if the herd immunity falls below a certain level even vaccinated people who have not achieved 100% immunity become vunerable because the unvaccinated people become a ready vector for spread. It is entirely expected that there will be very small levels of measels even in a 99% immunised community. The issue is how many people will die or become seriously injured in a vaccinated vs unvaccinated community.

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It's like it always is on here. You western medical fiends ,who have never touched a patient in your lives,have all the links we provide,and you still deny it ,and believe the stuff spoon fed to you,by the murderers making these drugs.

Nice... I hope the better drug manufacturers are watching your allegations..

Whatever works for ya . ... Duh...

Well, that sort of stuff certainly sounds .. professional...

Let's see how many I can find

You're off to an ABYSMAL start, by immediately using the old "Look at how much stuff is on the Internet!!!11!!11 - it must be be TRUE!!!111!!!!"

What actually counts in any SCIENTIFIC discipline, rather than an amateurish and simplistic attempt to find news reports and make them into a claim, is to actually properly VERIFY the information, look at the information, look at all the possible contributing factors to the information, and then (and ONLY then) draw conclusions.

You guys should try it some time.

Anyway I'm assuming Simbi has put her best evidence forward as the first link. So let's take a look, shall we?

This link doesn't start well.. 'Free Press release"??? Um, yes, press releases are free.. But shouldn't the first thing be to say where this release was from? Nope. It actually self-references to the same site - it's not a press release or news story at all.

Then it very unprofessionally refers to an un-named and un-dated report by the 'vaccine reporting agency', it doesn't even bother to name the agency until later. This is a professional press release?

It starts off by saying - and please note the wording carefully:

Unfortunately, as suspected, the number of injury and deaths associated with an HPV Vaccine continue to rise.

This is the sort of simplistic and biased drivel that is so often thrown at the fan by these biased pseudo-news sites.. The use of the emotive term 'unfortunately' in combination with the weasel words 'associated with'. Associated with? In other words, there was no causal link found, so they couldn't say 'caused by'. And what of any other reasons that 'associated' injuries and deaths might occur, like the fact that it is a new program, so of course ANY associated effects will increase, whether they are caused by the vaccine or not.

But hang on - where is the 'information' coming from and who has done the analysis.. Well, it refers to a VAERS report, so I foolishly clicked on the PDF link expecting to find it... but that is NOT to any VAERS report. It's just a PDF version of the same drivel.

So where are the actual numbers? The actual breakdown of injuries (type, severity), the actual numbers of injuries versus deaths, whether the deaths were likely casued by the vaccine or by pre-existing conditions? Go on, dear reader, go visit that site, and see if you can find those numbers. See if you can find any sort of real analysis. See if you cvan even find a link to the report, or even the name and date of it...

It's NOT there. All you get is one story and the claim that injury/death numbers are increasing (they may well be, but I'd like to see the original report and a proper and reasoned analysis). I'd also like to see an analysis of deaths/injuries amongst those not vaccinated... You'd sorta think that might be worth a bit of thought.. But, "whatever works for ya", I guess..

Now ask yourself, if you were writing that story, WHY on earth would you not refer to the actual report and a full breakdown and comparison of the actual numbers? Any PROPER news story or PROPER analysis would do so, but not that site..

Simbi, despite picking that site as her first link, apparently didn't notice all that, or think it was important, and I'm guessing she won't know why they didn't provide that link - do you?

Anyway, I read on, and found this:

If these numbers are not tragic enough, it is estimated that only 1 to 10% of all vaccine injuries and deaths ever get reported to VAERS. Imagine what these statistics would look like if everyone reported.

First up, we don't know how 'tragic' these 'numbers' are, because the proper breakdown and comparison wasn't given. Secondly, how was the 1-10% 'estimated'? And as for the emotive 'imagine what it would be like...' - what a load.

That sort of site is a travesty, and anyone with a smidgeon of scientific background should recognise that it is a deliberate and shameful attempt to drum up hysteria.

And THAT was the best example given? Simbi, I don't want 10,000 links - I can find far more than that on faeries and leprechauns. I want ONE GOOD ONE.

Can anyone do a little better? OP, where are you?

BTW, I have personal experience of the damage that can be done by ignorant parents who 'know better' and don't vaccinate their children - so YES, I'm biased. Perhaps there's a reason why these folks aren't doctors or scientists or statisticians....

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Let me give you a very personal example of the direct consequences of not been vaccinated.

About four years ago there was the flu which had a tendency to cause bleeding in the lungs of a small minority of infected people. It was one of the first years a special flu shot was made available and the public was encouraged to take it generally. I was skeptical of vaccines at the time and so declined. The flue came to our house and it was one of the nastiest I have ever had. I got over it after about a month and that was fine. However my son developed asthma as a direct consequence of the damage it did to his lungs. He still has asthma and we have had at least one life threatening attack since then which landed him in hospital.

Was I right to deny my son the available vaccine? We will never know, but it changed my opinion on vaccines in a radical way.

Br Cornelius

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Tell that to the people who didn't suffer the horrible death of smallpox or the millions who aren't crippled by Polio.

Lets make a bit more personal - tell it to the thousands of mothers who don,t have to bury their children each year because measles has all but been wiped out by the MMR vaccine.

But its been admited by the drug companies that neither measles or rubela commonly have complications with small children. They straight admit there is no real need to vaccinate for either. Youd know that if you bothered to read the information provided. Its better to catch either one then to be vaccinated. They straight admit the only people that should be vaccinated for R are women just before they reach puberty, cause if they get it later in life while pregnate, it could cause harm to the unborn child. This is thier words, not mine.

Polio and small pox were vaccines that worked, and was before the companies became mega giants. In fact no one is saying There is no need for any vaccine. The point is there has been alot of deception regarding many of the vaccines we see today.

http://en.wikipedia....asles#Prognosis

That fall by 60% is a direct consequence of Measles Vaccination programs. Try telling the 345,000 people who are still alive in 2005 alone due to measles vaccines, that the good doesn't outweigh the bad.

Br Cornelius

As this information shows, these people have major influance in the media, and in the medical fields. What ever "truths" they want you to think, chances are most are going to believe them. This conversation is pointless till you decide to go through all the information provided.

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THE HERD PRINCIPLE protects those unvaccinated but only up to a point of 95% coverage. The recent Dr wakefield caused scare campaign meant that coverage fell below the required 95% and numerous small outbreaks occurred.

Vaccines are not 100% effective so if the herd immunity falls below a certain level even vaccinated people who have not achieved 100% immunity become vunerable because the unvaccinated people become a ready vector for spread. It is entirely expected that there will be very small levels of measels even in a 99% immunised community. The issue is how many people will die or become seriously injured in a vaccinated vs unvaccinated community.

What small levels? These people straight admitted thier were major measel out breaks in populations where 99% of people were vaccinated.

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That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.

I usually give the physicians who question my statement that herd immunity is a myth a simple example. When I was a medical student almost 40 years ago, it was taught that the tetanus vaccine would last a lifetime. Then 30 years after it had been mandated, we discovered that its protection lasted no more than 10 years. Then, I ask my doubting physician if he or she has ever seen a case of tetanus? Most have not. I then tell them to look at the yearly data on tetanus infections – one sees no rise in tetanus cases. The same can be said for measles, mumps, and other childhood infections. It was, and still is, all a myth.

http://www.h4cblog.com/vaccines-and-the-myth-of-herd-immunity

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Let me give you a very personal example of the direct consequences of not been vaccinated.

About four years ago there was the flu which had a tendency to cause bleeding in the lungs of a small minority of infected people. It was one of the first years a special flu shot was made available and the public was encouraged to take it generally. I was skeptical of vaccines at the time and so declined. The flue came to our house and it was one of the nastiest I have ever had. I got over it after about a month and that was fine. However my son developed asthma as a direct consequence of the damage it did to his lungs. He still has asthma and we have had at least one life threatening attack since then which landed him in hospital.

Was I right to deny my son the available vaccine? We will never know, but it changed my opinion on vaccines in a radical way.

Br Cornelius

My one year old got the flu this week. We brought him to the doctor and they actualy had him pee on this stick thing, like a pregnancy test. He has type A. Poor kid looked like someone beat him with a bat. I thought for sure the doctor was going to give me some crap for declining the flu shot this year. To my surprise she told me they were being over run with flu cases, and even the kids who got the shot were coming in in large numbers. There have been lots of studies saying the flu shot isnt effective in kids nearly at all. So I wouldnt beat yourself up too much over it.

Anyhow He is doing much better today.

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But its been admited by the drug companies that neither measles or rubela commonly have complications with small children. They straight admit there is no real need to vaccinate for either. Youd know that if you bothered to read the information provided. Its better to catch either one then to be vaccinated. They straight admit the only people that should be vaccinated for R are women just before they reach puberty, cause if they get it later in life while pregnate, it could cause harm to the unborn child. This is thier words, not mine.

Polio and small pox were vaccines that worked, and was before the companies became mega giants. In fact no one is saying There is no need for any vaccine. The point is there has been alot of deception regarding many of the vaccines we see today.

As this information shows, these people have major influance in the media, and in the medical fields. What ever "truths" they want you to think, chances are most are going to believe them. This conversation is pointless till you decide to go through all the information provided.

You assume that I have not been through the trajectory of been in denial about vaccines benefits and then having proved to myself that I was wrong. I am not going to indulge your conspiracy delusions as thats all they are.

Br Cornelius

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What small levels? These people straight admitted thier were major measel out breaks in populations where 99% of people were vaccinated.

Care to show that evidence. As I said cases in immunised populations are expected.

Br Cornelius

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That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.

I usually give the physicians who question my statement that herd immunity is a myth a simple example. When I was a medical student almost 40 years ago, it was taught that the tetanus vaccine would last a lifetime. Then 30 years after it had been mandated, we discovered that its protection lasted no more than 10 years. Then, I ask my doubting physician if he or she has ever seen a case of tetanus? Most have not. I then tell them to look at the yearly data on tetanus infections – one sees no rise in tetanus cases. The same can be said for measles, mumps, and other childhood infections. It was, and still is, all a myth.

http://www.h4cblog.c...f-herd-immunity

Show us the papers little fish - otherwise its more hot air from the king.

Br Cornelius

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You assume that I have not been through the trajectory of been in denial about vaccines benefits and then having proved to myself that I was wrong. I am not going to indulge your conspiracy delusions as thats all they are.

Br Cornelius

Hey if you are not interested in what these drug companies have directly said, then there isnt anything I can do for you. Especialy when somehow thier direct words have become my "conspiracy delusions"

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Care to show that evidence. As I said cases in immunised populations are expected.

Br Cornelius

Not really. I mean I have already given the link to all this information, with direct quotes from the drug companies. I spent alot of time yesterday going through it. Im not going to hold you by the hand to try and force feed you information that you dont even want to hear to begin with. Information you are already calling conspiracy before you even look at it

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I guess when push comes to shove people are going to believe what ever they want regardless of the truth. I dont have any more interest arguing with people regarding the OP they had no interest in learning about.

Thanks to winter for providing this information. It was very helpful to me.

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Show us the papers little fish - otherwise its more hot air from the king.

Br Cornelius

who do i send the bill to?

or you could read the links given to you.

from the op

"...It would thus appear that these vaccines only provide waning immunity, not herd immunity, as

already well established in the case of the mumps vaccine by Castilla et al. [16] This often has the

effect of shifting a relatively mild childhood disease to older age groups of children or young

adults, in whom complications and sequelae from the disease are much more severe [15]."

you'll have to find out yourself what the "..." refers to by reading the links in the OP.

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Let me just ask all the skeptics here - when was the last time you actually saw a case of measels ?

Remember this is a disease with a 90% infection rate which propagates with exactly the same mechanism as the common cold. A disease which would have been as common as the cold in the past.

Why do you think it has all but disappeared from the developed world - if not the vaccines ?

Br Cornelius

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who do i send the bill to?

or you could read the links given to you.

from the op

"...It would thus appear that these vaccines only provide waning immunity, not herd immunity, as

already well established in the case of the mumps vaccine by Castilla et al. [16] This often has the

effect of shifting a relatively mild childhood disease to older age groups of children or young

adults, in whom complications and sequelae from the disease are much more severe [15]."

you'll have to find out yourself what the "..." refers to by reading the links in the OP.

Little fish = if this assertion was correct how do you account for the virtual irradication of measels in the developed world.

It is well know that some vaccines only offer short term protection - hence the need for tetanus boosters every 10years.

Care to show us some actual evidence for the fact that herd immunity doesn't work - cose all the evidence I can see says it does and is the reason that no one I know ever caught measles mumps or rubela.

You should read the Castilla et al. paper - it really doesn't support the contention that the MMR doesn't offer herd immunity.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Interesting .

This link shows ,that because of this,Obama wants to add riders to the freedom of information act,to make it so agencies forced to produce papers,can now claim the papers and info ,DOESN'T EVEN EXIST .

wow...just wow.

Screw the public being duped,protect the people hurting the public .unbelievable

http://realityfail.com/2012/11/uk-freedom-of-information-act-oficially-exposes-us-vaccine-hoax/

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I always found fascinating how dogmatic people want to reduce to entire world to their level, no matter how mighty they think that level could be.

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Hmmm... well let's see.

Vaccination has saved MILLIONS of lives. That's a fact

Vaccination to some has caused lethal reactions, but only in a VERY small percentage. That's a fact.

Aspirin, ibuprofen and similar has caused death in some individuals, yet helps MILLIONS more. That's a fact.

When conspiracy theorists can no longer hold onto 9/11 or doomsday, I guess they have to come-up with something else just for the jollies of upsetting the uninformed.

Sick, sick, sick.

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I always found fascinating how dogmatic people want to reduce to entire world to their level, no matter how mighty they think that level could be.

If you cant refute the evidence attempt to call the provider unreasonable.

You see I have acknowledged that vaccines can cause all of the issues highlighted - but I have placed them into their appropriate context. Thats the very definition of been un-dogmatic.

Week one debating skills - fail.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Pro- and Anti-vaccination brigaders are never going to agree.

The article is pretty cut and dry .

The freedom of information act ,is used to gain access to documents,that are completely OFFICIAL ,but are not accessible to the general public.

I've used it to get documents from the police dept,proving the ticket issued me,was illegal .

The article clearly states,this man petitioned the FDA and CDC ,for the documents .

So now FDA AMD CDC documents are not official ?

His request was denied for SEVEN YEARS,until someone stepped in legally,to force them to comply with a very legal act,in the USA .

Anyone reading that,with any working brain cells,would get it,unless they work for the parties being proven liars .

Quite a few people on here,WORK FOR BIG PHARM ,and post on only these threads ,to try to debunk any truth being posted .

La~

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Hmmm... well let's see.

Vaccination has saved MILLIONS of lives. That's a fact

Vaccination to some has caused lethal reactions, but only in a VERY small percentage. That's a fact.

Aspirin, ibuprofen and similar has caused death in some individuals, yet helps MILLIONS more. That's a fact.

When conspiracy theorists can no longer hold onto 9/11 or doomsday, I guess they have to come-up with something else just for the jollies of upsetting the uninformed.

Sick, sick, sick.

Generally,only ten percent of adverse drug reactions,get documented,at all .

It's a much bigger percentage ,and a lot of people die,or have permanent injury .

Big pharm ,is not our friend in the USA .

Ask all your friends with kids,and count how many having learning disabilities of some kind .

As the number is now astronomical .

A vaccine reaction actually killed one of my cats .

The only conspiracy is the one being perpetrated on the public .

The only data we are allowed to believe,is the data they give us.

The article clearly states,its drug company data,withheld from the public .

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If you cant refute the evidence attempt to call the provider unreasonable.

You see I have acknowledged that vaccines can cause all of the issues highlighted - but I have placed them into their appropriate context. Thats the very definition of been un-dogmatic.

Week one debating skills - fail.

Br Cornelius

Big pharm lies ,in the end,touch every life in this country . Let us know when it touches yours,because with your attitude and blind belief of it all,it absolutely will come to pass.

Condolences .

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FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT .

The info of these article,was gotten via the freedom of information act,ergo,the info was GOVERNMENT PROTECTED .

It is not heresay ,other people's data ,or made up .

It came directly from the source.

PLEASE READ WHAT THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT IS USED FOR ,as its not to promote conspiracy theories .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)

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