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Yamato

Defending Liberty - The 4th Amendment

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Words are cheap. If the government can pacify us so that we don't take action then they will let us talk all we want. Being aware is only half the battle.

Not being aware is none of it.

And who said don't take action? This is taking action. This video demonstrates how we exercise our rights, that's why I chose the subject line I did.

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Not really. Look, if someone is communicating with terrorists and enemies of this country, then *I* want to know what they are doing. This is that area where they are guilty until proven innocent. The thing is, if it's a random or causal contact then no big deal, that doesn't fall under the Patriot Act. Besides, if I'm talking to a terrorists, then I want that conversation recorded.

You have no business knowing what they're doing. Making national intelligence common knowledge means the terrorists know what our law enforcement knows. The violation of our liberty and the 4th Amendment has nothing to do with listening to terrorists. It's about listening to anyone for any reason under the guise of the Patriot Act without probable cause and without warrant.

Trusting in bureaucrats in Washington to even know what a "terrorist" is without looking in a mirror and seeing one isn't any excuse to tread on me with liberty killing laws like the Patriot Act. The Constitution keeps us safe, not anti-American fear legislation that violates it. The government already had the authority to listen to terrorists. It was already engaged in acts of war with them throughout the world. Listening to US citizens isn't listening to terrorists. A terrorist attack cannot put an end to our rule of law, including probable cause, trial by jury, search warrants, and innocent until proven guilty.

If there's reason to believe that a US citizen is a terrorist then get a court order. Don't trust in bureaucrats snooping on everyone searching for needles in haystacks. How scared and addled, how reactionary and paranoid do people have to be to run to their overbloated government to gut our Bill of Rights?

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This is not about race or ethnics.

Unfortunately it is, because it's a response to US foreign policy that is interested in certain ethnic groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups. This is a civil response that's correlated to religious and ethnic lines; a civil response to bad policy. This is incidental, but its incidence should be admitted. I'm the last person to be anti-Muslim but I have to concede Gummug's point. We waste resources and rob liberty trying to be so politically correct and unbiased that we're molesting grandma and eight year-old kids in our airports.

Any group of humanity that's oppressed by government is going to fight the hardest against that oppression. The characteristics of that group is incidental; it could be anything or anyone.

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This is not about race or ethnics.

I didn't want to hi-jack the thread, I was just venting a bit...but what is scary is that, I think I read somewhere on this thread, that the courts upheld the "investigator" or whatever she was. I mean, how hard is it to get a search warrant? And if the courts side with the unconstitutional actions of these people, what recourse do we have? It's not really that hard to get a search warrant if you have probable cause right? And if she didn't have probably cause what in the h*** was she doing on his property? Like the man said, it's the principle of the thing. I'm glad he had the guts to stand up for the principle.

Edited by Gummug
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In America there are only three things which you should say to a police officer. You need to provide your name, address, and date of birth but these can be found on any state issued drivers license.

1: I am going to remain silent. Do not self-incriminate yourself.

2: Am I free to go? Otherwise it is assumed you are staying of your own free will.

3: I do not consent to a search. You are protected by the constitution from illegal search and seizure.

Never open the door of your house to an officer, if they have a warrant they are coming in anyway.

Here are a few links from where I got this information.

http://pittsburghcop...ow-your-rights/

http://www.fourwinds...hp?q=1332946487

http://www.ridelust....et-pulled-over/

http://www.ibiblio.o...du/secrets.html

If anyone else could provide other links I would be grateful.

Uphold our American rights and make these words the only ones that Police hear from the public!

Yes we are protected by the constitution from illegal search (and seizure) but imo that's EXACTLY what happened here, and the courts upheld it! When the courts themselves no longer side with the spirit of the constitution, what are we to do? I wish we could fire judges.

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I wish we could fire judges.

you can. At least here, at the ballot box.

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you can. At least here, at the ballot box.

And first, the bully pulpit.

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I like Rand Paul. I hope his bill passes, but am not optimistic about that.

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you can. At least here, at the ballot box.

I admit my ignorance, I wonder how often they are up for reelection? I hope every four years or even sooner! I suppose it depends on the level...aren't Supreme Court Justices elected for life?

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I admit my ignorance, I wonder how often they are up for reelection? I hope every four years or even sooner! I suppose it depends on the level...aren't Supreme Court Justices elected for life?

every so many years. But you're right Supremes are for life. The idea is that they are the final arbiter and above political discourse. We've seen that doesn't work so well with people like Scalia.

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