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Vincennes

Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide

344 posts in this topic

Don't bother. I'm not believing that story. So when is all of this going to court anyway? Rebecca's family is suing for wrongful death and Dina is contesting that her son's death was an accident. Most of what I found is from last year when the cases were being brought up by the attorneys, so they should be coming to court soon.

Edited by susieice

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Regi -- You don't have to speculate how Rebecca managed to hop her way up to the balcony railing? Come now.

Uuuuuuh, no! :lol:

Seriously, no.

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Must be nice to have no concerns beyond the known. No questions about life or death. How wonderful,

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Must be nice to have no concerns beyond the known. No questions about life or death. How wonderful,

There are no questions about this case that I'm not comfortable with. I don't pretend to know the answer to every aspect of this case, but I think that's an unrealistic expectation with any case.

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Regi -- You said you don't speculate when you don't have to. In my opinion you have to speculate in all unsolved cases because there is no motive for LE to work on cases they can wrap up with the usual suspects or the usual evidence.

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In my opinion you have to speculate in all unsolved cases because there is no motive for LE to work on cases they can wrap up with the usual suspects or the usual evidence.

Well, that's a fine opinion and an interesting observation, but I don't speculate when I don't have to. :D

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Perfectly fine for you but I participate in the UM threads to further ideas and expand the scope of what it is possible or probable. Different strokes, I suppose.

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I saw a recreation of how Rebecca COULD have bound herself up but no recreation of how she could have gotten herself over the railing. It's stubbornly silly to not think about and to not attempt to find the solution to that conundrum.

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Perfectly fine for you but I participate in the UM threads to further ideas and expand the scope of what it is possible or probable. Different strokes, I suppose.

I participate to discuss cases and while I try to maintain focus, I can't help but get distracted by the intriguing dialogue.

You came into this thread saying that you knew particular info. wasn't new, but then you implied that I ignore "new evidence". :huh:

If you've read the thread, then you know that I've contributed quite a bit to this topic, and that I've explained my opinions and impressions on every aspect upside down, backwards, and sideways, yet you asked if I had any "original ideas". :huh:

The thing is, I would think it would have been blatantly apparent that I'm not in a position to have any "original ideas" about this case.

Edited by regi

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I wasn't implying that you ignore new evidence, just that you only accept the evidence that LE presents. It's your decision not to speculate, but that's what LE does when they approach a case. Nothing can be solved without a degree of speculation.

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Well that is what I get for going offline ! I get up and there are 26 new replies ! I'm like,,,,Wha ~~~

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I wasn't implying that you ignore new evidence, just that you only accept the evidence that LE presents.

No, I don't.

Nothing can be solved without a degree of speculation.

My point is, there has to be grounds for speculation...there has to be some basis for whatever it is one's speculating about.

It's your decision not to speculate, but that's what LE does when they approach a case.

Yes, it's my decision, and yours.

Speculate away. :tu:

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Regi -- Are you saying you see no reason to speculate how Rebecca could have hopped and over the railing? That isn't anything short of ludicrous.

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You know I think something good always comes out of these discussions. Even if you have a conclusion of what happened, it will end up just strengthening it.

I used to get so frustrated with Antilles (sorry Antilles, and I hope you won't mind me paraphrasing your posts ) Pretty much sum and substance, she died because Max died. I think to reach conclusions on Rebecca's death you do have to go back to Max's death.

The other thing that I ended up feeling very strongly I got through Regi's comments, going back to Rebecca's diaries, she really did love Jonah. That was a point I really hadn't fully considered.

Investigations in both of these cases have been terrible and police cooperation with the Rebecca's family and Max's mother have been dreadful. Max's mother actually had to threaten to bring a law suit in order to obtain a copy of her son's autopsy report which is now ONLINE !

Max's mother has continued to protest to everyone that she can get to listen that something was wrong in his death. She (her sister also) has always maintained Rebecca had a part in it. I don't agree with that. However, what I find interesting about this is that if I had reacted to my son's death and killed the one I thought was responsible, I would not be bringing the case up again and again in the press every chance I could. No way ! It would be, well I got even with her, let it go away now from everyone's minds before they catch me. If anyone did have a part in Rebecca's death it is the one who has maintained total silence. I think the reason he is not named in the law suit is that they are trying to bring him out through the back door without actually bringing the force of his weight both monetarily and politically into the case.

Edited by Vincennes

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You probably saw this. There is also a link but I just copied the stills from it. I love (no I don't) LE's graphic of Max's death. NOTICE there are no heights given. Max's height per his autopsy was 42." The stair rail was 36" Now compare those two measurements with this graphic "art." In all actuality his chin would have probably just cleared the stair rail. He would not have cleared it to under his arm as they show. You will also notice they are showing the chandelier close to the rail he went over and the actual photo included doesn't show it at all. Well, it's centered in the stairway area...Not off to one side !. Max's mother had several investigators go over this and they concluded Max didn't have a center of gravity to accomplish this "fall." Also, that had he gone over simply in a fall, he would not have made contact with the chandelier. He would have gone more directly straight down. They concluded Max went over the rail with a "torpedo" effect.

ht_max_shacknai_jp_110902_wn.jpg - how they believe max fell..... seems fishy , a 6 year old does not die from falling just a short distance.....

"Max was hospitalized, but because he had hit his head on the floor "he suffered injury to his upper spinal cord that stopped his heart and lungs. That resulted in brain damage. He subsequently died from that brain injury five days later," said Dr. Jonathan Lucas, who conducted Max's autopsy." - well that shut me up.

ms04.jpg

The omissions in this drawing is so ludicrous it is offensive to one's intelligence ! Why did they go to all the trouble to accomplish this misstatement ?

Edited by Vincennes

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Regi -- Are you saying you see no reason to speculate how Rebecca could have hopped and over the railing?

Well, what you just said is what she did.

My opinion is based on the info from the autopsy report.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports

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Until I see a re-creation showing this is possible, I won't believe she wasn't "helped" over that railing. (I know ... I'm entitled to my opinion.)

But I guess since there's so much apathy for a homicide theory, case closed.

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"Someone accessed Rebecca Zahau's computer from SW Airlines before she died. Someone also accessed her computer after she died."

Here's a link re: the computer.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

The police had to admit they were a little taken back that one of the activities he relayed to them with no hesitation was that he went to the guest house that evening after returning from dinner and took the opportunity to view pornography, I believe he said he had used his cell phone to accomplish that endeavor.

The fact of the matter is that during the pre-poly interview, it was learned he'd viewed porn on his cell phone shortly before discovering the body.

That is exactly right. His reference to the "girl." They always say some killers will try to work their way around using a name. They don't want to admit its a real person.

A girl is a real person. (Just sayin".)

The brother's departure from the scene was also interesting. Supposedly, he flies in immediately to be with his brother in his time of need. Then Rebecca dies and they have to pull the plug on the kid a day or so later and he's out of there as fast as he came. Why? Why wouldn't he stay with his brother for the son's funeral ?

His nephew was in ICU in critical condition.

Re: Adam's departure, link please.

Should have also added this all happens two days after a young boy in Rebecca's care apparently rides a skateboard down the second floor hall and goes over the stairway banister. That probably was a tragic accident, but I doubt what happened to her can be so easily explained away.

It was a scooter and it can not be "so easily explained away".

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Read. Thank you.

http://www.kpho.com/story/19209370/shacknai-independent-investigation-refutes-sons-accidental-death

There are further links back in the thread which I'm not going to look for. Anyhow...

Rebecca's family just filed the lawsuit in July so it will take awhile to get to court. Will be interesting to see what they present.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Coronado-Mansion-Rebecca-Zahau-Wrongful-Death-Lawsuit-Murder-Suicide--215451261.html

Here are images from the scenes. You can see the autopsy photos of Rebecca's legs.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKIWQu5rH9TD_KOZcTebQ73REypFeufejREr-lesVhX6j6RpqDqg

Also a pic of how her feet were bound.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5FCykh1VlbqTJxYPRvGczVp8-WObp-sCUx_h3Tnbxa6W8qmFtNg

There is also a pic of the scene where Max's body was found. There does appear to be something that might be called a scooter lying on the floor. May just be things are called something else in different areas, but it's hard to believe it would go over the banister with him.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvJwbB9xNuDR95p2LR4LUsKThfFZnGqhWp2PsbnG0HttqPQi1lQw

Edited by susieice

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(Regi, now I think you are thinking, " I just get her to admit to some sense and here she goes again!) :rolleyes:

Just finished reading the Ann Rule book, "Two Strange Deaths in Coronado." I wasn't really comfortable with her style of writing. It left me unsure if her purpose was to relate facts or to tell a "story.:

I have a favorite American History writer who does create stories out of historical events. However, he identifies and verifies each of the actual historical facts with dates/places and times and sources with footnotes.

Stating, of course, the "conversations" are strictly his interpretations of what the characters might have said. He comes up with some fascinating stories and you know where he get his stuff.

What I couldn't pin down in her writing was which were facts, hearsay or just her interpretation.

There are, however, a couple of things that really did bring up some questions in my mind..

1) There do seem to be two different accounts of the evening of 7/12. That's the dinner with "Howard" we were just discussing in the post. Adam says he and Becky picked Jonah, Howard, then

took Howard to the airport, then had dinner (The 3 of them). Adam did go on to say Jonah showed him his room at McDonald House. He and Becky were home by about 8:00 pm. Jonah says the four of them had dinner then, he went to the hotel, and "Becky" drove Howard to the airport. He doesn't specifically say where Adam was after dinner. These statements were made so soon after Becky's death. They forgot

who was at dinner? That's Odd. Maybe the police clarified in other statements, maybe not.

2) This account mentions something else I had totally forgotten about and will never again find a link to it because it was really early after Becky's death. I clearly remember

that the police said they found pornography specifically some oriental pornography on Becky's computer. That came out so early I actually wonder now if it was released on

purpose to discredit Becky. W

We have also discussed the fact that there was pornography was on Adams cell phone. This was emphasized by the fact that was what Adam told the police in their first interview.

He went to the guest house and watched pornography on his phone. Ms. Rule says that the police thought that was an odd statement to spit out without even a wince.

The pornography was accessed the evening Adam arrived and sometime the next day/evening when Becky died. Yet Adam stated to police he was never in the main house until the morning he found Becky.

Sure looks like a pastime that Adam likes. It certainly seems like that computer history should also have times on it. It would be very unlikely to think Becky was pulling up porn right before

she gets ready to kill herself. However, we do know from other statements Adam made that is his style.

3) Becky's long hair was partially under the shirt or bindings tied around her neck. All women that I know with long hair have a habit of putting their hand behind their neck and flipping their hair out to loosen it.

They do it constantly. IMO this screams that she wasn't in control when the bindings or shirt was applied.

4) Jonah's attorney/friend Paul Pfingst being at the crime scene behind the yellow tape with one of the detectives! Since Ms. Rule says several times there are pictures of Pfingst there with his arm around the detectives shoulders, I feel pretty certain this is based on facts. That's HUGE! That should have never been allowed. It does, however, indicate that Jonah had access into inner police circles.

5) I know this is based on hearsay but Ms. Rule also takes about several times after Rebecca's death Jonah, seemed on edge. Two unidentified men accompanied him to Becky's funeral. Bodyguards? Although this reeks of hearsay, it brought back to me some early research I did on Jonah. He is not a chemist. No med student background either. He is an attorney. This article questioned his rise to millions. It seems he was more like a Bill Gates. Didn't do the product development himself, just put the company together with himself as CEO with the actual ones who developed the product under him and he was in the process of doing it again.

Taking in another successful product into the company, again, with him as the Grand PooBa. That was resented by some in the company. Which brings up the fact that he had recently sold a good deal of stock after a bonus and transferred the money into trust funds for his kids. Sad, little Max didn't get his portion. Selling stock off like that in large quantities usually causes the value to drop. Could someone have resented the fact he received the largest bonus and then lowered the value on theirs? Did Jonah have a real enemy out there?

6) Jonah put the house for sale in August 2012 and would not allow access to it by investigators acting on Rebecca's behalf. Why? He gave "lip service" asking that the investigation be reopened. Then wouldn't let them in? He said they could only go if they had a police escort and, of course, the police refused to escort them. This makes no sense what so ever. If I had his money, I would have locked that house up tight and joined my investigators with theirs to at least find out what happened to my son.

Adam does seem to have a loose cog in his personality. When you screw all the screws down, it just doesn't come together real tight. :td:. His statements both the recorded and the ones in the book are just a little left of center. That brings me why was her there so immediately. Other things I have read were that he went to all family functions but wasn't really that close to Adam. What was his motivation to jump on a plane from Memphis to California instantly. At that point, other reports show they didn't even know Max was so critical. Max's father didn't fly out....Adam does and does it immediately. Family ties? Maybe. But could it be he also had a thing for Rebecca ??? In my experience anything that moves a man that fast is usually a woman! Did he see a chance to be with her???

I worked very hard on this post. I'm sorry that I do not seem to have recorded my link regarding Adam's departure. I actually found it in a Memphis newspaper nothing national and it seems to have now been archived. It only related that Adam was reported to no longer be in Coronado Beach and yet hadn't returned to his apartment, or maybe rooming house in Memphis. The press was looking for him to no avail. Perhaps he was just hiding from the press but the date told me he had left Coronado and was not recorded as one of the people at Max's funeral. There was a picture of his rooming house in the article. Sorry I can no longer provide the link. At least we now know my memory was correct regarding the pornography found on the master bedroom computer. What I didn't know until this last round of posts is that it was of Asian women in bondage.

At least I found this !

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I believe this is the type of article I found in which I found the article looking for Adam. http://www.wmctv.com....asp?s=15091608

Although the picture of the house as I remember did not look as good. Perhaps there is a list of who attended Max's funeral ?

Edited by Vincennes

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No matter what you think regarding the possibility of Rebecca's suicide. Adam was a deviate. There is no doubt. Please go back to the LE reports. He had not slept in the bed that he claimed he had just awakened from in the 911 reports. That is in their own reports !!!

http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai

I am so glad his pornography predilection is now coming out with this law suit..... Asian women in bondage. Jonah's problem might just be Adam was stupid.

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I kind of found this site interesting.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/25/money-mystery-murder-in-spreckels-mansion-case/

http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-questions-than-answers-justice.html

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/new-witness-mansion-deaths-says-they-heard-woman-scream-help-hours-cops-claim/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/08/a-lesson-in-saving-face-zahau-case-will-reopen-if-new-lead/

You need to go into the links in blue to get the full story of the article.

As I look further into this what was written on a bedroom door- "she saved him can you save her" seems to refer to the son and not the boyfriend like I had been thinking. I haven't followed this crime all that much but I've got a lot of doubt if the truth to this has ever really been told. The second link which is out of the first link is pretty significant. All the links are from the first one. You need to go into them to get the full gist of what was being said.

Edited by susieice

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Here is another interesting article that is now detailing much more regadring what was found on that computer

http://forums.utsandiego.com/showthread.php?t=113372&page=32

I did find in Rebecca's diary indications that she did love Jonah and Max enough she might have taken her own life because he would leave her and she might have somehow taken part in this tragedy. What is also there is Jonah did not really love her. What I do not know if those indications are strong enough to overcome the other evidence...

I again am so thankful to this attorney. These people are not looking for money. They are looking for answers. Sadly, I feel so is Max's mother. Now who is left ?

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I kind of found this site interesting.

http://www.forbes.co...s-mansion-case/

http://womenincrimei...rs-justice.html

http://radaronline.c...urs-cops-claim/

http://www.forbes.co...en-if-new-lead/

You need to go into the links in blue to get the full story of the article.

As I look further into this what was written on a bedroom door- "she saved him can you save her" seems to refer to the son and not the boyfriend like I had been thinking. I haven't followed this crime all that much but I've got a lot of doubt if the truth to this has ever really been told. The second link which is out of the first link is pretty significant. All the links are from the first one. You need to go into them to get the full gist of what was being said.

Very good links,credible sources. I apologize I can not supply mine that Adam vacated the scene shortly after his undetermined polygraph. Believe it or not, he did not accompany Jonah to Max's funeral.

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