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Vincennes

Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide

344 posts in this topic

door was open, how much open? i know full well that a closed door can open itself ( expecially if the wind from the open baclony door managed to open it..

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door was open, how much open? i know full well that a closed door can open itself ( expecially if the wind from the open baclony door managed to open it..

I have never read if they originally found the bedroom door open or if it was closed. Remember the type of LE investigation we are talking about here. :no:

There is a question if the balcony doors were open or if they were closed behind her. There are photos that seem to contradict each other. Heck there are photos that Susie posted recently that contradict whether there was even a rope there or if it was moved from original position !

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i thought the only note left was the one on the door "she saved him can he save her" , am i wrong in that???? were there more? i know there were journals.......

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We agree here I think that everything about this case is odd. I read an article this morning by a crime scene author who said one of the things that makes this so hard is that you can't believe anything you have been told. There has been so much disinformation and misinformation released.

One thing just struck me though. Susie, I think you agree with me the time Jonah knew how serious Max really was has probably been "adjusted." Now, if you take that to the fact he had dinner that night with Rebecca and I think he even says he went back to the house to pick up clothing from maybe 8 - 10:00pm. Why would he choose to advise her how serious Max was at 12:30 a.m. via VOICEMAIL ! Even if he had just found out, that's a pretty heartless way to tell someone the news, don't you think? Why wouldn't he just say, call me back ? Was he setting up both an alibi that he wasn't there at the time she died like Jodi Arias did ? And, also setting up a reason for her sudden despondency ?

The police have, of course, been very quick to set her time of death by the fact that call was picked up.....but even they admit there is no way to prove Rebecca is the one who picked it up.

Here, again, every time I kick things around, I come up with Jonah's involvement. The one with what the police stated right from the beginning had such a solid alibi for his whereabouts.

i thought the only note left was the one on the door "she saved him can he save her" , am i wrong in that???? were there more? i know there were journals.......

AS far as I know there was only one note. The "She saved him etc" on the door

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i thought i was going loopy for a bit there Vincennes ,thanks for clearing it up x

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I just came across this link re. the abilities of Jonah's publicity team: http://www.cbsnews.c...c-masterstroke/

Manipulating the media to take the heat off where he did not want the focus.

If you toggle the link in it "search warrant documents." That will take you to the actual search warrant which is about the only place I have been able to pull it up. It was right there on line when it was disclosed....Now very hard to get to.

Susie, you were absolutely right regarding rigor ! If you read through that search warrant, the Detective states specifically that the responding EMS techs noted rigor had sat in at the time they first got to the scene !!!! I went back and looked at the photos. Rebecca's knees are more than just a little bent......The have an aerial of her body on the grass and they are very bent, both of her legs !!! I would say about a 40 degree angle.

Edited by Vincennes
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so, are we saying she had to be in the position she was found in (i.e lying down) for a good few hours before being "thrown"/ dangled down from the bacloney.

thus rigor needed to have settled..

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so, are we saying she had to be in the position she was found in (i.e lying down) for a good few hours before being "thrown"/ dangled down from the bacloney.

thus rigor needed to have settled..

That is what it sounds like happened. She had sent text messages to her sister that night which, unless someone faked them, was about the last time anyone heard from her. If you go with the time as being from 10:30 to 11:30 pm. The time the neighbors reported hearing a scream(s ?) and loud music, there would be enough time for rigor to have sat in.

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Right Vincennes. I would have to guess that her legs were bent when rigor set in. Is there a record of the 911 call Adam made somewhere? I haven't come across it in my searches.

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SO..... ANYONE mind making up a timeline then,..... so the perp had to have been in the house long enough for rigor (and presumibly livor) to set in ...... thats hours, and then think (hey , lets chuck her over the balcony!

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Here is a clip of Adam's 911 call. http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIWsLIpSjWoAuWj7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTB2Mm9jNG1iBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVjE0OQRncG9zAzE-?p=adam+shacknai+911+call&vid=494aa0947bfddacb6365d4214ba476e3&l=4%3A46&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.5006889324643950%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnyGs0d2d-ck&tit=Adam+Shacknai+911+call&c=0&sigr=11a0enhba&sigt=10m3n70vp&age=0&&tt=b

I'm not certain if it is the entire call. There seem to be to places it stops almost like a disconnect and then starts up again. He says, I just woke up, multiple times. I believe if you find the entire clip he says it three times. Interesting since his bed in the guest house hadn't been slept in.

There was also a clip of Xenia's 911 call on Max played on one of the Dr. Phil shows. That is an interesting call also. However, I've never been able to get back to that particular show. One of things in that clip that is curious is that a minute or so into it, the dog starts barking as if he has just been let in but you can hear Rebecca with Max and Xenia is on the phone. ??? What surprised the dog seems to be unclear.

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SO..... ANYONE mind making up a timeline then,..... so the perp had to have been in the house long enough for rigor (and presumibly livor) to set in ...... thats hours, and then think (hey , lets chuck her over the balcony!

The timeline is the difficult thing since Jonah/Adam/ and Rebeccas dinner dates and times have been switched in the various reports. They switch up the evening of the 11th with the evening of the 12th. Why they would be investigating a timeline 24 hrs. before Rebecca's hanging is ???? curious in itself. However, IMO this benefits Jonah greatly and covers the fact he did go back to the mansion to "get clothes" and things after dinner and before he checked into the hotel. Jonah has time missing there between about 8:00 am and 1:00 am. At 1:00 am on the 13th he shows up at Ronald McDonald house.

Dina says she went to talk to Rebecca at about 10:00 pm. The light was on in that bedroom but no one answered the door. Why would the light be on in that bedroom? It was not the master bedroom.

I went back through this thread over the weekend and I noticed one of the posts asked a question regarding what type of porn was accessed on that computer that night. We now know from the last thing that was released that it was of Asian women and bondage.

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I discussed this again at work today. The 2 hours for rigor to set into facial muscles makes sense in the way we have to treat a person who is deceased. We are told to make sure the mouth is shut and may have to use rolled towels to do so while they are still limp because if it sets in before the undertaker comes, they may need to break the jaw to reset it. Sometimes it is 2 hours before the undertaker gets there. We came to the conclusion that for the legs to be bent after rigor, they would need to have been broken, both of them since they were tied together. They are bent at the knees. That didn't happen.

Good posts Vincennes. If she was found in rigor at 6:30 AM, time of death can be no later than 1:00 AM. Possibly 2.

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I discussed this again at work today. The 2 hours for rigor to set into facial muscles makes sense in the way we have to treat a person who is deceased. We are told to make sure the mouth is shut and may have to use rolled towels to do so while they are still limp because if it sets in before the undertaker comes, they may need to break the jaw to reset it. Sometimes it is 2 hours before the undertaker gets there. We came to the conclusion that for the legs to be bent after rigor, they would need to have been broken, both of them since they were tied together. They are bent at the knees. That didn't happen.

Good posts Vincennes. If she was found in rigor at 6:30 AM, time of death can be no later than 1:00 AM. Possibly 2.

Thanks for all of your research into the rigor aspect. I had never touched on that at all. From what you have brought to this and what I have already suspicioned, I think Rebecca was murdered at about the time of the screams.....Taking into consideration the neighbor's report of screams and Jonah's missing / re-dated dinner "went for clothes" timeline.... IMHO I think Rebecca died between 10:30 and 12:00 pm. IMHO the perv Adam sat watching Asian women porn until he got the high sign from Adam that he was at the hotel. Then Adam either tossed her over...or more probably.... hoisted her up using a rope he had obtained in that interim. There is unidentified substance on the gag in Rebecca's mouth... How long could she have been there alive, hog-tied and gagged and possibly tapped, before Jonah got back to the hotel and Adam finished...Who knows ???

IMO, just like OJ, they might think they have gotten away with it...and Jonah might have paid well to get away with it..... I don't think in the end it looks like Jonah/Adam will get away with any more than it looks like Zimmerman is going to get away with ....

If we can find these errors in the LE reports, others can and will. We all need to send emails to Anne Bremner to thank her for what she is doing. There are those on this thread that have said they (Rebecca's family) are suing for the money. That is so ludicrous. If they were after money, they would have sued Jonah from the getgo and not Nina. They are trying to get to the truth without Jonah's bucks involved in defense but right now I hate to say that he is probably writing Nina blank checks. I am hoping Nina wants to know too what happened to her son and refuses his money.

Edited by Vincennes
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If Rebecca's family wanted to sue for money they could take Jonah to civil court and I don't think they'd have to reopen the case. Like OJ, they'd just have to show he was responsible for her death. He wouldn't need to have been convicted.

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How odd, all went quiet here just after the Wrongful Death Suit was filed by Rebecca's family on Nov 13, 2013 in California

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Posted (edited)

Very interesting case ..... after reading through a bunch of comments, I'm kinda leaning towards this theory that was written by someone anonymous on one of the links. Makes sense, but so do some other theories. Nevertheless, here it is:

Totally agree, think ex-wife is responsible and hired a hit person to do it. She had the motive, she had the means, she has the temperament, she had access to the house (probably still had a key), lives down the street. Someone wanted to humiliate this poor woman in the worst possible way. The BF had no reason as according to reports was happy in the relationship and certainly would not do anything to jeopardize his business nor reputation. This was a crime of passion.

But he doesn't sound like he's innocent either. All I can say is, that poor boy and the girlfriend!

Edited by pixiii
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for bringing this topic back. It's one that haunts me.

Totally agree, think ex-wife is responsible and hired a hit person to do it. She had the motive, she had the means, she has the temperament, she had access to the house (probably still had a key), lives down the street. Someone wanted to humiliate this poor woman in the worst possible way. The BF had no reason as according to reports was happy in the relationship and certainly would not do anything to jeopardize his business nor reputation. This was a crime of passion.

I'm also sorry that I've forgotten a lot of my study on what happened but I can say that Nina gave radio interview which is almost an hour long re. her actions and her sister's. (The link is in the thread) I was so into this case at the time I transcribed it, so that I could read it over slowly and decide if what she was saying fit with logic and time frames and IMHO it did. Even her speech pattern was very regular and believable.

The one who had the motive, means and opportunity was Jonah/Adam.

Cara, you mentioned that you had seen input from someone who watched some of the things from a rooftop. That would be very interesting. Love to hear anything you remember from what they said.

Edited by Vincennes
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I don't know if any of you who followed this thread are into podcasts, but I thought I'd mention that the August 10th episode of The Generation Why podcast covered Rebecca Zahau's death. Likely nothing new, given the hour time constraint, but I thought it was a good discussion. Available on iTunes and on other pod catchers of your choice.

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