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Mystic Crusader

Mob in Pakistan kills man accused of burning

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I understand your bigger point, but I'm not seeing it as a 'us vs them' philosophy.

The people affected by this madness are still human beings, and deserve to be spoken up for (at the very least).

But, to your point, how much time would be proper in allowing that society to 'grow up' on their own accord? We are already talking 1000's of years, how much longer?

They would have to abandon the Koran, that's how. Nothing short of it.

I remember hearing once that certain Greek "god's were all the rage.

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Sandy Hook was one nut case with a gun, this was 200 nut cases with rocks. Do you see your fallacy?

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But, to your point, how much time would be proper in allowing that society to 'grow up' on their own accord? We are already talking 1000's of years, how much longer?

Their book never changes, hence they will never evolve, same thing with every other religion that follows a bible.

They will never evolve.

Edited by HavocWing
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There book never changes, hence they will never evolve, same thing with every other religion that follows a bible.

They will never evolve.

I can remember my old math book said 1+1=2. Pfft, so antiquated! Today's math is more sensitive to the needs of 3. The English book was even Worse. "parts of speech"? Hate speech, maybe!

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While you are asking, in all earnesty, perhaps you should also include us.

How much longer are we ourselves going to need? How much longer? We are already talking 1000's of years. Look at all the problems we have.

Can we honestly sit and blame their society for producing murderers but forget that our own society has produced Sandy Hook. I understand many want to emphasize individualism but to do so to the point to be blind to the fact that we as a society also produce our own shames, how much more time are we going to take to take care of our own issues?

Oh, you claim it is not "them vs us" but in the end if you just focus on their negatives then it very much is.

Excuse me but there's a big difference between western society and there, that killing being a prime example.

That killing was universally condemned and done by one man, not endorsed by religion or the government. Compare that to the mob. A mob of 200 motivated by their religion, with the goverment on their side and no one in their country really condemning them. Now that is a world of difference.

As others have said, how long should we give them to 'evolve' because honestly, these people are centuries behind us.

Murder is wrong, universally and we should condemn it. Be it the man who decides to shoot up the school, the terrorist who blows himself up or the mob that kills a man. All should be condemned with equal measure. We shouldn't be pausing and treating this thing as you want to. You seemingly want to lessen the tragedy of this man's death, to cast the calllousness of the act aside as something done simply as 'part of the culture'. That we shouldn't condemn it and instead 'give them time'. I'm sorry, but no we should not and to do as you ask belittle's his death and every other at the hands of these kinds of people.

Sorry, but I'm going to condemn those people as readily as anyone else that commits an act of murder, regardless of who or where they are. I'm also going to condemn their society because unlike America, it's a society that condones this behaviour and I cannot in good conscience do anything other than condemn it.

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Sandy Hook was one nut case with a gun, this was 200 nut cases with rocks. Do you see your fallacy?

Sandy Hook was 28 victims by my count. I understand your metric is rather different.

If you find 28 deaths within minutes as acceptable to the point we should gloss over it and focus on others in another hemishphere while displaying our own religous prejudice then no wonder your view is at odds with mine.

Excuse me but there's a big difference between western society and there, that killing being a prime example.

That killing was universally condemned and done by one man, not endorsed by religion or the government. Compare that to the mob. A mob of 200 motivated by their religion, with the goverment on their side and no one in their country really condemning them. Now that is a world of difference.

As others have said, how long should we give them to 'evolve' because honestly, these people are centuries behind us.

Murder is wrong, universally and we should condemn it. Be it the man who decides to shoot up the school, the terrorist who blows himself up or the mob that kills a man. All should be condemned with equal measure. We shouldn't be pausing and treating this thing as you want to. You seemingly want to lessen the tragedy of this man's death, to cast the calllousness of the act aside as something done simply as 'part of the culture'. That we shouldn't condemn it and instead 'give them time'. I'm sorry, but no we should not and to do as you ask belittle's his death and every other at the hands of these kinds of people.

Sorry, but I'm going to condemn those people as readily as anyone else that commits an act of murder, regardless of who or where they are. I'm also going to condemn their society because unlike America, it's a society that condones this behaviour and I cannot in good conscience do anything other than condemn it.

At one time it was the West who was centuries behind the Islamic states. We are not always guaranteed our positon.

I believe you that you cannot do anything other than condemn it, if you could do more certainly you would, I suggest beginning with understanding which requires dropping hostilities which never make our world a better place.

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Sandy Hook was 28 victims by my count. I understand your metric is rather different.

If you find 28 deaths within minutes as acceptable to the point we should gloss over it and focus on others in another hemishphere while displaying our own religious prejudice then no wonder your view is at odds with mine.

I don't find 28 deaths,3000 deaths or one death acceptable,but you seem to fine it is ok to kill this poor guy over paper and ink because it is part of a their culture. As religious bigotry goes they have me beat on that one. I'm a Pagan, in some Muslim countries I wouldn't make it off the plane simply because of my religion.

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I don't find 28 deaths,3000 deaths or one death acceptable,but you seem to fine it is ok to kill this poor guy over paper and ink because it is part of a their culture. As religious bigotry goes they have me beat on that one. I'm a Pagan, in some Muslim countries I wouldn't make it off the plane simply because of my religion.

Never said it was OK. I agreed with others that it was not.

As far as religious bigotry goes the only one that a person could compete with is themselves. Comparing yourself now, to yourself before, to yourself in the future makes for a more fair comparison.

You can defend your right to attack others all you want, you can have that right, but attacking others is part of the problem. Religious bigotry is bigotry regardless of scale which can easily slide depending on circumstances.

I am Christopagan, so few of us, that everyone has us beat on every score. But what we are has no bearing on how we are with others.

Edited by I believe you
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You know I have been reading and waiting for someone to pick up on the core issue - this man was not killed for burning the Koran, he was killed after he had been accused of burning the Koran (anyone notice the difference).

While neither reason is acceptable, the fact that someone can yell "blasphemer" or "witch" or whatever and set of a killing frenzy is absolutely frightening.

This is a level of witch hunting insanity that hasn't been seen in many a year - it is the dark ages for Islam, how sad.

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Give the daft b'astards some time.

They;re at the stage Christianity was at during the dark ages; in a few hundred years the Muslim's will realise that they've been acting like barbarians and change their ways, moving onto less barbaric but more annoying traits like the Christians.

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You know I have been reading and waiting for someone to pick up on the core issue - this man was not killed for burning the Koran, he was killed after he had been accused of burning the Koran (anyone notice the difference).

While neither reason is acceptable, the fact that someone can yell "blasphemer" or "witch" or whatever and set of a killing frenzy is absolutely frightening.

This is a level of witch hunting insanity that hasn't been seen in many a year - it is the dark ages for Islam, how sad.

What amazes me is where are the moderate community leaders who would at least be able to subdue mobs like these, perhaps talk some sense into it...I think until moderate Islam stands up and fights fundamentalism they are just as guilty...these mobs represent Islam and thats how its reported to the world so when people say don't paint all by the same bru****hen stand out and prove your different.

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What amazes me is where are the moderate community leaders who would at least be able to subdue mobs like these, perhaps talk some sense into it...I think until moderate Islam stands up and fights fundamentalism they are just as guilty...these mobs represent Islam and thats how its reported to the world so when people say don't paint all by the same bru****hen stand out and prove your different.

I have many wonderful muslim friends and know many good members here on UM too that try to do just that in their own respective circles, these radical clusters are the minority but as usual - they are making the most noise on the world stage and fear is like a plague, it spreads far more easily than any plague really. The people with the most to fear are fellow muslims, they are most closely connected to the radical clusters and therefore in their immediate line of sight - they need a strong military, police and secular government to keep the superstition and judgemental frenzies in check so that folk can feel empowered to take a stand against all this from within.

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What amazes me is where are the moderate community leaders who would at least be able to subdue mobs like these, perhaps talk some sense into it...I think until moderate Islam stands up and fights fundamentalism they are just as guilty...these mobs represent Islam and thats how its reported to the world so when people say don't paint all by the same bru****hen stand out and prove your different.

In Pakistan the moderate leaders are assassinated while dialogue is occurring in the Mahgreb. Moderate voices are for the first time being heard there. Look at how the citizens rose up to push out the militants after the attack on our embassy.

It is encouraging and with any struggle there will be ups and downs. There is so much hope for that region and soon it will spread east back to Pakistan.

Even after the religious moderates are given greater voice, with our support, their society, as ours will have more work to do, on woman's rights and other issues which won't just disappear when they stop stoning infidels. We and them have a long way still to go in accepting atheists and atheist discourse because they have a lot to contribute to our societies.

People believe we are not entering a new age, fine, but change is occuring all at once, now.

America is going to begin a conversation on mental illness and violence. India is having the conversation regarding women and rape and has also started discussing worker rights because of the tragedies that have struck their textile factories. America went through this around a hundred years ago after the deadly Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire and it led to regulation and safety. Pakistan is being rocked, still undergoing trauma that is by those that hate but they can't win, soon educating the women there is going to succeed and spread into other parts of that region.

The more we support growth and change in positive directions the better our world will be. But ultimately change is spurred by insiders to those regions.

Edited by I believe you
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I am Christopagan, so few of us, that everyone has us beat on every score. But what we are has no bearing on how we are with others.

Then don't get off the plane because what happen to that poor guy will happen to you. People attack my religion all the time, I am used to it. I have yet to kill anyone over it. It is not bigotry to say this kind of thing is wrong. I call as I see it. A religion that inspires this kind of mob violence you really have to question why.

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At one time it was the West who was centuries behind the Islamic states. We are not always guaranteed our positon.

I believe you that you cannot do anything other than condemn it, if you could do more certainly you would, I suggest beginning with understanding which requires dropping hostilities which never make our world a better place.

I understand plenty. A man was murdered by a mob. It sounds to me like you're forgetting that key point (which I've helpfully bolded for clarity since it apparently escapes you). What else is there really to understand there? Oh yes the reason why. Ok so they murdered him because he burned a book (and not even that, just the mere accusation). I suppose, to you, that makes the murder ok then?

And another question to you. What happened was done in the name of religion. It is NOT religious bigotry to say that said religion calling for his death is wrong. I really can't stand that becomes the defence of the religious. A religious person or group does a bad thing because of their religion but if we condemn them for it it's 'religious bigotry'. No it's not.

Edited by shadowhive

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Then don't get off the plane because what happen to that poor guy will happen to you. People attack my religion all the time, I am used to it. I have yet to kill anyone over it. It is not bigotry to say this kind of thing is wrong. I call as I see it. A religion that inspires this kind of mob violence you really have to question why.

Oh, everyone attacks Christopagans. Christians on one end, pagans on the other, we fall in the border of both.

During wars the simple folk who lived along the borders helped others regardless of sides because they knew when the war, started and decided by distant powers, would end, and when they ended they would still have to live with their neighbors from the other side.

The people of the border are returning.

Regarding the part I embolded in the quote above, I understand religion can take several expressions depending on context.

Paganism is ancient times that sacrificed is not the same as neo-paganism today. Should we just judge paganism like some do by the past? Should we lock it in to any period of time including today? Or should it be allowed to grow?

Should we pretend religion and beliefs cannot change depending on the area they are in, the period of history they are in, and the overall environment and climate they find themselves exisitng and operating from?

Violence in the Middle East has much to do with global distribution of wealth, poverty, lack to jobs and education, these are the problems that need to be tackled. People with access to the middle class have radically different priorities. Our own corporations engage in the wealth inequality.

Now Christianity in Middle America is not the same as Christianity in China. Christians there and here probably have different views on government, the right to own guns, and a whole host of other issues.

Islam is capable of change, is undergoing change, and being overly critical of it does not further that in the least. Exercises in hatred only continue the cycle.

I understand plenty. A man was murdered by a mob. It sounds to me like you're forgetting that key point (which I've helpfully bolded for clarity since it apparently escapes you). What else is there really to understand there? Oh yes the reason why. Ok so they murdered him because he burned a book (and not even that, just the mere accusation). I suppose, to you, that makes the murder ok then?

No, definitely not OK.

Neither is being hypercritical of them to the degree of hate. If you don't hate no worries but it seems some want to defend their right to hate. I don't see the benefit to humanity in that.

Edited by I believe you

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The more we support growth and change in positive directions the better our world will be. But ultimately change is spurred by insiders to those regions.

very true.

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I have many wonderful muslim friends and know many good members here on UM too that try to do just that in their own respective circles, these radical clusters are the minority but as usual - they are making the most noise on the world stage and fear is like a plague, it spreads far more easily than any plague really. The people with the most to fear are fellow muslims, they are most closely connected to the radical clusters and therefore in their immediate line of sight - they need a strong military, police and secular government to keep the superstition and judgemental frenzies in check so that folk can feel empowered to take a stand against all this from within.

I do understand not all Muslims are the same...and its usually one or two clever people influencing these mobs...I do hear Islam saying their religion is beautiful...then prove it. as that's not how the world sees it... :no:

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No, definitely not OK.

Neither is being hypercritical of them to the degree of hate. If you don't hate no worries but it seems some want to defend their right to hate. I don't see the benefit to humanity in that.

Good.

That's the problem isn't it? I don't condemn this mob because they are muslim. I condemn this mob because they murdered someone. I would be just as critical if it as an atheist christian or pagan mob that did it.

The trouble is, though, that because religion is involved suddenly you're not condemning them because they're murderers, you're condemning their religion. No, I'm not condemning their religion. The closest is condemning the part they used to justify murdering someone but that's because it was used to justify murdering someone.

I don't condemn religions, I condemn the parts of religions that are used to justify such activity.

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I do understand not all Muslims are the same...and its usually one or two clever people influencing these mobs...I do hear Islam saying their religion is beautiful...then prove it. as that's not how the world sees it... :no:

You have to look into some Interfaith events around the world to see it. I remember when the Dalai Llama came to Melbourne and we all went, Muslim, Christian, Orthodox, Buddhist, Baptist, Orthodox - an ecclectic bunch in and of ourselves.

When we arrived the big screen had speakers of all our faiths-including Islam, talking about the core message of Love, Compassion and Forgiveness. The same can be said of Interfaith events the world over, Pope John Paul II was key to many of them.

Of course, there was no bloodshed so it barely rated a blip on the radar of news media and nobody knows how many thousands turn out regularly to show unity against violence, fear and hatred.

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You have to look into some Interfaith events around the world to see it. I remember when the Dalai Llama came to Melbourne and we all went, Muslim, Christian, Orthodox, Buddhist, Baptist, Orthodox - an ecclectic bunch in and of ourselves.

When we arrived the big screen had speakers of all our faiths-including Islam, talking about the core message of Love, Compassion and Forgiveness. The same can be said of Interfaith events the world over, Pope John Paul II was key to many of them.

Of course, there was no bloodshed so it barely rated a blip on the radar of news media and nobody knows how many thousands turn out regularly to show unity against violence, fear and hatred.

I live on the fringe of a Muslim community in a city with huge cultural and religious differences, and know exactly the kind of event your talking about, and I suppose if Moderate leaders had managed to calm this mob it probably wouldn't have even reached the news, I do think that these type of reports serve a purpose and that's fear, but then I think this was a mob perhaps of those people who were moderates whipped into a frenzy and hell bent on killing people...its a mad situation which ever way you look at it.

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Burn your wife, or throw acid in her face. Not so illegal.

Burn the holy book, guilty or not, that'll give you a death sentence by mob.

Those priorities are screwed.

Edited by Likely Guy

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Good.

That's the problem isn't it? I don't condemn this mob because they are muslim. I condemn this mob because they murdered someone. I would be just as critical if it as an atheist christian or pagan mob that did it.

The trouble is, though, that because religion is involved suddenly you're not condemning them because they're murderers, you're condemning their religion. No, I'm not condemning their religion. The closest is condemning the part they used to justify murdering someone but that's because it was used to justify murdering someone.

I don't condemn religions, I condemn the parts of religions that are used to justify such activity.

I am not certain I appreciate the nuance presented in your post because instead of explaining the fine difference to further understanding it seems instead intended to allow continued attacks on others. It seems evasive and wiggly.

Surgical strikes are still strikes.

Excuse me but there's a big difference between western society and there, that killing being a prime example.

You can claim you merely condemn the mob and inch your way to them claiming "the closest" part of your condemnation is to the specific part of their religion....ya, this is all at odds with what you stated above where you noted that even our societies are different, it is fair to generally say such because in essence we are different, but when someone claims so with the notion that we are better or superior, well then, no, such bigotry should not be accepted as normal conversation but instead be labeled for what it is.

A mob of 200 motivated by their religion, with the goverment on their side and no one in their country really condemning them. Now that is a world of difference.

Followed up by introducing attacks on their government and country.

As others have said, how long should we give them to 'evolve' because honestly, these people are centuries behind us.

Now you next call them backward, more or less, but it should be clarified that technologically, ethically, yes they are behind us, but this is not a characteristic of them as a people. When you say "these people" it becomes disturbing.

Take a person and depending on what environment they are born and/or live in they will become a different person. People can change depending on their background at the moment and that is never static. Those who are most interested in change in that region understand we need to help those inside those societies help change their own societies and then the rest of the people will change. At one time many in America were racially bigoted, we used to have our own religious bigotry too, people formed mobs, people unfairly died, but attitudes change.

The constant attacks on Muslims and others by a few bigots in the West hinders this change taking place.

The hatred contained in the views of extremist there is made up of the same stuff in the those here in the West who do nothing but hate others who are different than them too. You guys are the same in my view and both part the problem. Two sides of the same coin but there is a third side that turns conflict into synthesis.

Things will change because too many people are becoming part of the solution, there is hope, change will occur with or without your help.

Edited by I believe you

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Excuse me but there's a big difference between western society and there, that killing being a prime example.

That killing was universally condemned and done by one man, not endorsed by religion or the government. Compare that to the mob. A mob of 200 motivated by their religion, with the goverment on their side and no one in their country really condemning them. Now that is a world of difference.

As others have said, how long should we give them to 'evolve' because honestly, these people are centuries behind us.

Murder is wrong, universally and we should condemn it. Be it the man who decides to shoot up the school, the terrorist who blows himself up or the mob that kills a man. All should be condemned with equal measure. We shouldn't be pausing and treating this thing as you want to. You seemingly want to lessen the tragedy of this man's death, to cast the calllousness of the act aside as something done simply as 'part of the culture'. That we shouldn't condemn it and instead 'give them time'. I'm sorry, but no we should not and to do as you ask belittle's his death and every other at the hands of these kinds of people.

Sorry, but I'm going to condemn those people as readily as anyone else that commits an act of murder, regardless of who or where they are. I'm also going to condemn their society because unlike America, it's a society that condones this behaviour and I cannot in good conscience do anything other than condemn it.

OK fact check time.

Did you even read the initial story? 30 people were arrested and 8 law enforcement officials suspended. That does not seem like the "government is on their side and no one in their country really condemning them" as you stated!

Do you really believe that? Is this why some in the West, here, are needed to do the attacking because no one is doing it over there? If that is what you believe rest easy because dialogue is occuring in that society.

The day after there was more trouble with more mob action and arrests.

HYDERABAD:

A day after people lynched a man for allegedly desecrating the Holy Quran, protests were held in villages and towns of Dadu – not against the murder but to condemn the arrests made by police in the case.

“An undeclared curfew has been enforced,” said a resident of Seeta village, who belongs to the Solangi community. “Majority of the men who were involved in the attack have fled their homes, leaving women, children and elders behind. Many have even left with their families.”

Hundreds of women staged a demonstration in Seeta village, where the incident took place. They accused the police of “violating the sanctity of their homes during their indiscriminate raids.”

“They are punishing the whole village for the acts of a handful of people,” shouted Yasmeen Channa at the protest.

Residents of Seeta and Seeta Nandhi villages, which have a population of around 7,000 people, stormed the Raho Dero police station on Friday morning where the man accused of blasphemy was locked up. He was thrown out from the first floor of the station, beaten up and burnt to death.

http://tribune.com.p...made-by-police/

Why do I see a valiant society struggling to achieve progress? Why do I see change and dialogue occuring there?

There is more read on, they arrested a total of 39 people, all for the original incident.

Then they arrested 6 more for inciting the mob to protest those arrests.

They even arrested the peshimam and moazin of the mosque!

While the protesters accused police of arresting hundreds of residents, Dadu SSP Usman Ghani said that with the nine arrests on Saturday, a total of 39 suspects have been put behind the bars. He told The Express Tribune that police produced over two dozen suspects who were arrested yesterday in the local court to obtain their remand.

The SSP also claimed that six persons who had incited the mob and later led them to the police station have been arrested. “They have no affiliation with any political or religious group,” he said, refusing to disclose their identities.

According to villagers, the peshimam and moazin of Usman Memon mosque – where the victim had allegedly burnt the copies of the Holy Quran while spending a night – are among those arrested.

Police nominated 200 unknown people in an FIR registered under sections 302 and 353 of the Pakistan Penal Code. In a separate FIR, SHO Baharduddin Keerio and seven other policemen have been charged for negligence. Police have been unable to identify the deceased so far.

At a separate protest in Sita Road town, located some eight kilometres from the two villages, demonstrators stressed more on finding out the identity of the deceased than condemning his murder. Led by local political, social and trade representatives, they demanded immediate release of the arrested people, a halt of police crackdown and disclosure of the identity of the alleged blasphemer. “The police have gone on a rampage,” said Sunni Tehreek’s leader, Syed Tameer Shah while addressing the protesters. “They are victimising entire villages for the acts of just 15 to 20 men.” They warned that they would carry their protests to other towns and cities if police did not stop the crackdown.

http://tribune.com.p...made-by-police/

You think their society is not struggling but at the same time that all this is occuring there are people standing up, even at the risk of being bombed, they are dying for their struggle to make Pakistan a better place for all.

Look at what happened just Friday and Saturday there.

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — A suicide bomber in Pakistan killed nine people, including a provincial government official at a political rally held Saturday by a party that has opposed the Taliban, officials said.

The rally in Peshawar, the capital of northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province, was held by the Awami National Party, whose members have been repeatedly targeted by the Taliban.

Among the dead was Bashir Bilour, the second most senior member of the provincial ­Cabinet, said Ghulam Ahmed Bilour, the politician’s brother and federal railways minister.

An angry mob of more than 200 people then broke into the police station in the southern town of Dadu and took the ­accused man, who they say was under questioning. Deen said police tried their best to save the man’s life, but were unable to stop the furious crowd.
Also Saturday, Pakistan’s Dunya TV broadcast an undated video purporting to show a German aid worker abducted in Pakistan 11 months ago urging authorities to meet his captors’ demands, warning that otherwise they could kill him within days.
In southwestern Pakistan late Friday, gunmen killed 11 Pakistanis and Afghans who were trying to cross into neighboring Iran to travel on to ­Europe as illegal immigrants, said local government official Zubair Ahmed. The shooting took place in Sunsar town in Baluchistan Province, he said.
‘‘Terrorism has engulfed our whole society,’’ said Hussain. ‘‘They are targeting our bases, our mosques, our bazaars, public meetings, and our security checkpoints.’’

http://bostonglobe.c...tnHM/story.html

Now a final update on the incident in Dadu.

Usman Ghani, the district’s senior police superintendent, said that he had suspended the official in charge of the police station and filed administrative charges against seven other officers for negligence. He said that charges had been filed against 1,000 people believed to have participated in the mob action and that 150 people had been arrested. Little was known about the victim or what motive he was thought to have had for burning the Koran, if he did so.

Blasphemy is a capital crime in Pakistan, and it is a highly emotional issue for the deeply conservative country. Calls for repealing or revising the blasphemy laws have been met with strong resistance from religious leaders, and two prominent advocates of changing the laws were assassinated last year.

http://www.nytimes.c...e-say.html?_r=0

Also a side note some debris fell from the sky on Dadu in November.

Fear and bewilderment overtook some parts of Dadu district after the mysterious objects fell on a number of villages late on Wednesday, the Dawn newspaper had reported.

http://dawn.com/2012...v-missile-ispr/

The next story reveals the type of relationship that the national government has with the police and villagers. Not even the local police and villagers seem to have good communication. Improving this is important for change.

Police sources said the pieces weighed between two to 180kg, adding that all of them are yet to be recovered from the villages. No one was harmed in the incident. The debris reportedly fell in the villages of Haveli, Khazani, Shahak Lodhlani, Wazir Lund and Ahmed Lund in Dadu and Garo Jabal and Abu Bakar Brohi villages in the bordering Balochistan.

Abdul Nadeem Brohi, a resident of Garo Jabal village, said, “We were ploughing our land when we saw a heavy piece of iron falling down from the sky.” Garo Jabal village is where the heaviest piece of metal, weighing around 180 kg, had fallen.

According to reports, some villagers took away smaller pieces, which looked like burnt iron and rods. SHO Nazeer Mallah said that they failed to retrieve anything from the Haveli and Khazani villages.

Military officials could not be reached for their version.

http://dawn.com/2012...v-missile-ispr/

The more you begin to understand them, the truth, the reality of the region and situation they are in, you realize you cannot hate.

Understanding fosters acceptance. Condemnation from those who accept them is more valuable than condemnation from those who are merely bigoted.

Condemnation is warranted but not if channeled through religious, national, or any other type of bigotry. Have a great morning.

Edited by I believe you

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I believe you, there is a very big problem in pretty much everything you post.

This mob murdered a man. That is wrong. So everyone here condemns them for their actions and the reasoning behind it. Yet every post you make you seem to beg people to 'understand' as if that makes it better. You tell them that we should not condemn these people for murder. Any critisim of the religion and society that allows such an act and condones is is hate to you.

I'm going to say in black and white what I think, in plain and simple terms so you can understand it and not twist it.

1: This mob murdered a man. That is wrong, just as it is wrong for any mob or person to commit an act of murder.

2: This murder was religiously motivated. Therefore the religion (or rather part of religion) must shoulder the blame.

3: Note that muslims do not HAVE to murder people, otherwise muslims in western countries would be doing it.

4: Why did I say the society is to blame? Because if this man as convicted of burning a book, there's a chance he'd be executed for it.

So, to be clear. I hate the mob for doing the murder. The hate is not targeted at the whole or religion or society, just the parts that were used to cause this to happen.

Now if this was a mob in our society, you would not be looking for excuses to use against those that condemned the action.

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