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Still Waters

Unbelief, the world’s third-largest religion

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It does not logically follow. For an atheist, God is a man made phenomenon. It needs replacing with nothing.

I understand that, however in religion, God is the center of everything they do. They do what is according to God. In aitheism, they make decisions in life entirely by themselves, and don't follow anyone or anything. Therefore their "God" is themselves because they only follow their own decisions. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

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Why does one have to believe only in one thing??? Has humanity become so narrow minded that the only way to be accepted is just to choose one thing and side against everything else???

You believe that there is no god, that's a belief based on faith, so the question you ask applies to you too. However I never said you have to believe anything but you still will believe in things regardless, like you believe there is no god when it is not a substantiated certainty.

I believe in balance, that I am equal to everyone else and they are equal to me. I try not to place myself at the center no more than I would anyone else.

Sure that's sounds empathetic and sweet on paper, but if you adhere to atheistic philosophy then the individual takes priority, ie the self. Existence serves the self? No? Yes? Ofcourse it is in your philosophy, cause the devout religious person serves god, and still see everyone as his equal etc but he serves one greater than him and everything. Diametrical opposition to this is logically self worship (not ritualistic) but serving the self over and above everything, you claim otherwise but you really know it's true! I was atheist remember and I was atheist cause I knew and adhered to it's philosophy. When you serve god, the existence us temporal and therefore a means to an end, when you serve yourself, then existence is everything, and everything within it (ie materialism) is the route to success. Thus the self becomes of upmost importance over anything.

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So the irreligious replace god with themselves.

I see your point, but as an agnostic, I have to disagree.

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In other words, when you follow no one, you follow yourself. From a religious person's view, you're replacing what would be God's position (in their eyes) with yourself. The vise-versa can be said from the eyes of an aitheist. He could see a religious person replacing themselves with what they believe to be an imaginary figurehead called God.

At least I think that's what Lion6969 is saying...

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I mostly agree. Although as many people probably do view themselves as God or a god, I'm sure most of them don't. They have however replaced what would be the position of God in their lives, with themselves. Just wanted to clarify that a little.

You see my friend the ones that claim they have not replaced god with themselves ate generally band wagon atheists, they don't actually fully understand it's premises, implications, and philosophical foundations. I was atheist cause I knew and strongly believed in those foundations. Most of them don't realise it, it does not take deep critical thinking and pondering to come to the realisation that removing god from the centre you logically replace him with yourself.

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I see your point, but as an agnostic, I have to disagree.

The agnostic also replaces god with themselves until they come off the fence and decide which side they sit on ;)

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You see my friend the ones that claim they have not replaced god with themselves ate generally band wagon atheists, they don't actually fully understand it's premises, implications, and philosophical foundations. I was atheist cause I knew and strongly believed in those foundations. Most of them don't realise it, it does not take deep critical thinking and pondering to come to the realisation that removing god from the centre you logically replace him with yourself.

:tu: Well said.

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It does not logically follow. For an atheist, God is a man made phenomenon. It needs replacing with nothing. Maybe you should read about atheists and how they actually see the world rather than just making something up (or simply repeating what someone else made up).

I understand your point, but the notion that god is a man made phenomena is based on a belief unsubstantiated as is gods existence. So because your belief is unsubstantiated, you have nothing to replace god as the centre bit with yourselves. Ie the self becomes god!

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The agnostic also replaces god with themselves until they come off the fence and decide which side they sit on ;)

No choice is a choice in and of itself.

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True absence of religion and faith is best expressed through agnosticism, but still not fully. As I said, no choice is a choice in and of itself. God's existance can't be proven or proven otherwise, so for aitheists to claim one side is no different than a believer to claim the other. Both take just as much belief and faith.

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You see my friend the ones that claim they have not replaced god with themselves ate generally band wagon atheists, they don't actually fully understand it's premises, implications, and philosophical foundations. I was atheist cause I knew and strongly believed in those foundations.

Didn't one time you also claimed to be an evolutionist?
Most of them don't realise it, it does not take deep critical thinking and pondering to come to the realisation that removing god from the centre you logically replace him with yourself.

God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.
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No choice is a choice in and of itself.

I agree, no choice is a choice. However until one comes off the fence one replaces god with himself.

:)

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Didn't one time you also claimed to be an evolutionist?

God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.

No I was atheist through and through and as an atheist evolution is essential as it forms the scientific (allegedly) backbone of the atheistic philosophies.

Secondly, at least havoc understands theology and knew god resides at the centre of a devout religious person. You clearly have no idea :)

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God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.

That is a judgement and claim you cannot make. No one knows the depths of another's sencerity.

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God was never at the centre, even for a believer. It has always been for their own benefit.

I agree.

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No I was atheist through and through and as an atheist evolution is essential as it forms the scientific (allegedly) backbone of the atheistic philosophies.

Yet your understanding of it is absolutely pitiful.
Secondly, at least havoc understands theology and knew god resides at the centre of a devout religious person. You clearly have no idea :)

Pot, meet kettle. :yes:

That is a judgement and claim you cannot make. No one knows the depths of another's sencerity.

I just did. There very foundation is for their benefit, whether it is in this life or the next. Gods that offer little tend to have few believers. Edited by Rlyeh
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Secondly, at least havoc understands theology and knew god resides at the centre of a devout religious person.

It's called narcissism-co narcissism (co dependency). Narcissists are considered natural magnets for the co-dependent.

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The agnostic also replaces god with themselves until they come off the fence and decide which side they sit on ;)

No, at least I don't. On the last page Aquila said, "In other words, when you follow no one, you follow yourself."

I follow the rest of humankind, be they religious or atheist. It's central to living in today's society.

Theists can't prove that God exists, Atheists can't prove that God doesn't exist. You descibe it as 'sitting on the fence'. I see it as, neutral. Sort of like Switzerland during WW2 when the rest of the world was going crazy around them.

And Switzerland has never gotten off the metaphorical 'fence'. Nor will it ever. ;)

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I just did. There very foundation is for their benefit, whether it is in this life or the next. Gods that offer little tend to have few believers.

Whether God is real or not, to say that one uses that belief only for themselves is a narrow minded statement in and of itself. I'm sure there are many believers who truly do their works for their God, regardless of his existance.

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Whether God is real or not, to say that one uses that belief only for themselves is a narrow minded statement in and of itself. I'm sure there are many believers who truly do their works for their God, regardless of his existance.

That is what Lion is trying to say about atheists.

Edited by HavocWing
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Whether God is real or not, to say that one uses that belief only for themselves is a narrow minded statement in and of itself. I'm sure there are many believers who truly do their works for their God, regardless of his existance.

That's nice to believe, but back in reality the carrot and the stick approach is used by many missionary and evangelical services.

Come on, how do you convince someone to believe in your deity if your deity has done nothing for them?

Although it sounds selfish, it has always been about self benefit.

Edited by Rlyeh
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That is what Lion is trying to say about atheists.

I don't deny that. I'm simply responding to Rleyh's statement.

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Ryleh, personally mate no offence but your inept at understanding philosophical arguments, arguing with you is arguing with a wall. Does not matter how many shelves with books you place on it, the wall still don't learn anything!

It's very simple

Religious person = serves god and god is at centre of his existence. He lives to serve god and his cause etc etc depending of what religious background they come from.

Non religious person = has a belief that there is no god, so removes god from the centre of his existence. Naturally and logically you replace it with yourself, not nothing! You then serve and exist to serve yourself.

Simples!

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That's nice to believe, but back in reality the carrot and the stick approach is used by many missionary and evangelical services.

If you wish to discuss things and debate with me I will. If you wish to simply belittle one another then please take it up with someone else.

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Ryleh, personally mate no offence but your inept at understanding philosophical arguments, arguing with you is arguing with a wall. Does not matter how many shelves with books you place on it, the wall still don't learn anything!

Someone lied to you, your "philosophical arguments" are nothing more than baseless assertions.

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