Christianity 'close to extinction' in the ME

[Erikl]

Christianity 'close to extinction' in Middle East

Christianity faces being wiped out of the “biblical heartlands” in the Middle East because of mounting persecution of worshippers, according to a new report.

The study warns that Christians suffer greater hostility across the world than any other religious group.

And it claims politicians have been “blind” to the extent of violence faced by Christians in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

The most common threat to Christians abroad is militant Islam, it says, claiming that oppression in Muslim countries is often ignored because of a fear that criticism will be seen as “racism”.

SOURCE

Sad news this Christmas eve .

I was to Haifa this weekend, our third largest city, which has a large Christian population. The city of Haifa is celebrating the "Holiday of holidays" this time of the year, commemorating and honouring all three major religions. The city was covered with fir trees and jewish menorahs, left from recent Hannukah. My team leader, from Nazareth, also said that this year the Christmas tree that was erected in the central square was the biggest and brightest he or his father can remember. Nazareth is currently a Muslim majority city.

It's sad that this life we have here in Israel is so alien to the rest of the middle east.

I wish a merry Christmas to all the Christian member of the forum. Let us all hope that the Middle Eastern Christians will know better Christmases in the future.'

[keninsc]

I got news for you. Militant Islam is a threat to any other religion, not just Christianity.

There's a reason there aren't any Harri Krishnas at the airport in Cairo, they dead.

[Coffey]

I wish a merry Christmas to all the Christian member of the forum. Let us all hope that the Middle Eastern Christians will know better Christmases in the future.'

What about non Christian members huh?

What about Pagans?

You do realise Christmas was a Pagan holiday originally. Christmas and Jesus's birth date are not mentioned in the bible at all.

All the so called Christian holidays are the same, Easter another Pagan holiday. They put Christian holidays on Pagan holidays on purpose to push out pagans and make the transition to Christianity easier.

Anyway in Africa all these horrible terrorist groups are Christian. It's them that go around raping and murdering villages.

Christians are safe and there is loads of them in the west anyway.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Coffey

[Ashotep]

When a religious group targets another with violence I think they are showing their true colors of what they are about.

[Yamato]

When a religious group targets another with violence I think they are showing their true colors of what they are about.

And when a nation targets another with violence, we agree with it because it's our nation.

[Yamato]

Christianity 'close to extinction' in Middle East

Christianity faces being wiped out of the “biblical heartlands” in the Middle East because of mounting persecution of worshippers, according to a new report.

Ben Masada, another Israeli poster here, says that 80% of the New Testament is anti-Semitic. I always feel persecuted whenever I read one of his threads about Christianity.

[+and-then]

Considering how they were treated by Christians for many years I can understand the animosity. It's misguided these days I think - especially since such a large number of Christians so avidly support Israel - but I understand the sentiment. It's too bad. I don't usually respond to his posts because they seem intentionally provocative to me and I try to avoid that as much as I can - now -

[Erikl]

Ben Masada, another Israeli poster here, says that 80% of the New Testament is anti-Semitic. I always feel persecuted whenever I read one of his threads about Christianity.

In the meantime, Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the population of Christians is actually growing (excluding the disputed territories as most civilians there are under Palestinian Authority rule which seem to discriminate Christians just as they are being discriminated in other Muslim majority countries in the Middle East).

As I mentioned above, in cities with big Christian populations, mixed holidays are celebrated.

[Yamato]

The Crusades are over and I'm not concerned about whether Christianity goes extinct in the Middle East

In the meantime, Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the population of Christians is actually growing (excluding the disputed territories as most civilians there are under Palestinian Authority rule which seem to discriminate Christians just as they are being discriminated in other Muslim majority countries in the Middle East).

As I mentioned above, in cities with big Christian populations, mixed holidays are celebrated.

It's not important to me how many members of a certain group exist in a certain land area within some arbitrary lines drawn up by government(s). People are simply free to worship/believe how they choose in my country and we don't have different laws for different religions. If other nations don't agree with me how wonderful that is, it's none of my business and they can do whatever they want out there. Using state power to impact a single religious or ethnic group goes against the grain of the giant melting pot of secular diversity that the US is.

[acidhead]

In the meantime, Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the population of Christians is actually growing (excluding the disputed territories as most civilians there are under Palestinian Authority rule which seem to discriminate Christians just as they are being discriminated in other Muslim majority countries in the Middle East).

As I mentioned above, in cities with big Christian populations, mixed holidays are celebrated.

Isn't everybody in Israel Christian?

[Erikl]

Isn't everybody in Israel Christian?

Nope, 75% of the people of Israel are Jews by ethnicity (and about 30% of those practice their Judaism to more than mere cultural aspects ie keeping Jewish laws).

5% of Israelis have no religion, and are usually Slavic people of Jewish descant that were elligable for citizenship based on Israeli law of return.

The other, aboout 20%, Are none Jews, mainly Arab.

16% of Israelis are Muslims. Most Israeli Arab of the Muslim faith usually identify themselves as Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.

The rest are various non-Muslim, mostly Arab minorities, such as Druze and Christians. Bedouins, while also adhere to Islam, do not regard themselves as Palestinians (as opposed to many of the non-Bedouin muslim Israeli Arabs).

[Erikl]

People are simply free to worship/believe how they choose in my country and we don't have different laws for different religions.

Yet outside of Israel, Christians native to the Middle East aren't so free to worship and live their lives.

[the-Unexpected-Soul]

Yet outside of Israel, Christians native to the Middle East aren't so free to worship and live their lives.

did you miss this topic

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=239511

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Well, I'm certainly not going to give a history lesson to posters who live in the region, they will know what situation is now and what is has been over the centuries better than me. So, perhaps I state the obvious when I say that perhaps the animosity to Christians living in some majority Muslim countries, is because they are seen as being on the same side as majority Christian USA, which is backer of Israel. This is of course insulting to those Christians, because it is assumed they are potential traitors in their own countries. I think they are collateral damage caused by existance of Israel. This is not of course to say Israel should go, after all, it is the only real democracy and reasonably sane country, perhaps with exception of Jordan, in the region. Turkey I do not include here as I think they stand apart in this situation and are different people. And sometimes I think destruction of Ottaman empire was a disaster for the region, open to debate and hot argument I think.......

However, I think if this forum exists in 50 years, this same subject will still be debated, but I think in 100 years it will be history. Sounds unkind, but it needs a few existing generations to die, in the normal course of events, and new generations exposed to real democracy, before situation is resolved. Though in the meantime there is great danger. I fear for the Copts more than any others, I fear there is potential for a terrible disaster for them. To me they are so very close to the origin of one religion, and in some ways, the continuation of what was before, we cannot loose them, IMO

[Erikl]

is because they are seen as being on the same side as majority Christian USA, which is backer of Israel.

Maybe some with an agenda might try to make it about Israel as well. However, for decades, Christians were tolerated under Arab nationalism, which until fairly recently was the dominant ideology in all the Arab countries sorrounding Israel. For the exact reasons you mentioned, many Christians in the region actually were harsh Israeli criticizers, and zealous Nationalists - they knew that as a minority, Arab nationalism is the only thing to bind them with the Muslim majority.

The region is experiencing Islamic radicalism as a result of power struggle between Iran and Saudi Arabia over political dominance. Until 1979, Iran had little to no interests in the Arab or Islamic world. However, since 1979 it sees itself as the leader of an Islamic revolution, and being that most of the region is Arabic and all of the major holy sites of Islam are in the Arab world, it has leading aspirations in the Arab world. That put itself as a competetor to then newly enriched (with the petroleum production shifting to Saudi Arabia) Saudi royalty, and being that Iran is Shiia and the Saudis are Wahabbists, revived the centuries old Sunni-Shi'ia conflict. This conflict has been escalating for the past 3 decades to the point where the entire region is experiecing religious radicalism, financed mainly by the Saudis and other Gulf Sheiks. Their logic is simple - most Arabs in the region are Sunnis. If you adhere to radical Sunni Islam, or Wahabism, you won't tolerate Shiia dominance. They spend billions on propegating Wahabbi Islam. It's simple just to see all those magnificant new Mosques financed by one of them Gulf emirates and see which Imams are preaching there.

The side effect is that also no other religion is tolerated anymore.

If under Arab Nationalism none Arabs were not tolerated (Kurds, Berbers, etc.) but were under pressure to become Arabic (simply by neglecting their traditional home languages), without changing their religion or way of life (it was recognized as being Arabic), then under radical Islam none Muslims are not tolerated, and the only solution is to convert and become a Muslim.

If you're already a Muslim, then you better obey to the fundamentalist views of Wahabbi Islam.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Then you put majority of blame on current problems on Saudi? I say current because it seems over the decades the precise nature of the problem shifts. For instance, when Arafat was being ejected from Beruit by IDF, the problem seemed more to do with politics than religion, in fact back in those days religion did not seem so much an issue, other than over-arching Jew v Muslim issue. To me Munich seemed all political, not religious at all. Indeed, it seems to me, and I may be wrong, that Arafat and others seemed to morph from radical leftists to devout Muslims over the years. If so, then why? were they hypocrits? is this corruption by Saudi/Iranian money?

Second edit , to add that a strong echo of the purely political aspect still exists, in that support for Palestine in the west is mostly, or even entirely, from those with political views on the left, and correct me if I am wrong, does not the left in Israel take a, comparatively, softer line than the right.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Lion6969]

Christianity is virtually extinct in western Europe, they need to address their own door step first.

[+and-then]

Christianity is virtually extinct in western Europe, they need to address their own door step first.

If the western Europeans no longer desire relationship with Christ then this is their business. But how does that justify the mistreatment of willing worshippers of Christ in the M.E.?

[Insaniac]

What about non Christian members huh?

Anyway in Africa all these horrible terrorist groups are Christian. It's them that go around raping and murdering villages.

I must say, with it being my duty and being a Christian myself, that it makes me sick to hear other supposed "Christians" are raping and murdering people. They certainly don't follow the New Testament in the Holy Bible, which is what we're supposed to follow because it's what Christ left us with.

A True Christian wouldn't rape and/or murder anybody. They follow Christ, not the murderous Roman Catholic Church and other false denominations and sects.

The Romans murdered Jesus Christ, so why would a True Christian follow those sinister people? Ahh, I'm going on a tangent.

Thanks to the rest of your post, Coffey. Agreed.

[Coffey]

I must say, with it being my duty and being a Christian myself, that it makes me sick to hear other supposed "Christians" are raping and murdering people. They certainly don't follow the New Testament in the Holy Bible, which is what we're supposed to follow because it's what Christ left us with.

A True Christian wouldn't rape and/or murder anybody. They follow Christ, not the murderous Roman Catholic Church and other false denominations and sects.

The Romans murdered Jesus Christ, so why would a True Christian follow those sinister people? Ahh, I'm going on a tangent.

Thanks to the rest of your post, Coffey. Agreed.

It's same with Muslims, true Muslims aren't terrorists.

Personally anyone who puts their religion before morals and human life etc is disgracing their religion.

I don't care what religion someone is, they are free to believe or feel what they choose. It's when people can't accept that it becomes a problem.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Christianity is virtually extinct in western Europe, they need to address their own door step first.

I like someone not from Europe does not know anything about Europe

[Yamato]

Yet outside of Israel, Christians native to the Middle East aren't so free to worship and live their lives.

That's another reason the US is better. I just wish the US would promote its own way of doing things instead of propping up and enabling someone else's , including some of the places you're speaking of.

[acidhead]

Second edit , to add that a strong echo of the purely political aspect still exists, in that support for Palestine in the west is mostly, or even entirely, from those with political views on the left, and correct me if I am wrong, does not the left in Israel take a, comparatively, softer line than the right.

really?

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

really?

From my observation of western media and various academics and even "celebrities", then yes. I guess you indicate you may be on right and support Palestine? But I know there is differences in what is termed "right" (I think terms left and right are outdated) Perhaps, and this is only from top of head, right should be divided between capitalists and nationalists, and of course there are a host of other ways to divide this particular pie, though it is not as difficult as dividing the "left" pie. Hope I am not too complicated about this....

Edited December 29, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[pallidin]

It's been well known that radical muslims have long intended to occupy all of the ME. They have clearly proclaimed such intentions.

Their next, own-stated goal, is to take-over the entire world and forcefully submit it to Sharia law. That's THEIR words, not mine.

For democratic countries, the way they intend to do this is by eventual majority population of radical muslims, voting and becoming elected officials, thus eventually changing the democratic laws of a country into Sharia law.

To my dying day I, and many others, will resist their putrid corruption of humanity... at least in the USA.