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blind pew

Why?

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Then I shall quote another person "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." Pope Leo X.

Take that.

Any evidence that he actually said such a thing?

Yeah, the quote is well known, it is also well known that it might very well be a forgery (as in thinking it is from a historical source), started by protestants. Not that he was very holy mind you. He was not even a christian...

This "myth" quote actually comes from the English playwright John Bale in his satirical work:"The Pageant of Popes"

Leo the tenth was a Florentine borne, of the noble house of Medicea, and called ere he were Pope John Medices. He being Deacon and Cardinal of Saint Maries, contrarie to all hope was chosen to succede Julius. He beinge diligetly from his youth trained up in learning under learned schoolmaisters, and especially one Angelus Politianus, did afterward greatly favour learned men. When he was but. xiv. yeres olde he was made cardinall by Innocentius the. viii. and at the yeres of xxxviii. he obtained the papacie. This Leo was of his owne nature a gentil and quiet person:but often times ruled by those that were cruell and contencious men, whom he suffered to do in many matters according to their insolent wil. He addicting himselfe to nicenesse, and takinge ease did pamper his fleshe in diverse vanities and carnal pleasures: At banqueting he delighted greatly in wine and musike: but had no care of preaching the Gospell, nay was rather a cruell persecutour of those that began then, as Luther and other to reveale the light thereof: for on a time when a cardinall Bembus did move a question out of the Gospell, the Pope gave him a very contemptuouse aunswere saiying: All ages can testifie enough howe profitable that fable of Christe hath ben to us and our companie: Sleidan faith he sente letters and bulles of pardons into all nations for suche as woulde give money for them, the effectes of his pardons were diverse, some especially to sell licence to eate butter, chese, egges, milke, and fleshe upon forbidden dates, and for this purpose he sent divers treasurers into al coutreis, and namelye one Samson a monke of Millaine into Germany, who by these pardons gathered out of sundrie places such hewge sommes of money that the worlde wondered at it, for he offered in one day to geve for the Papacie above an hundred and twentie thousand duckates.

Bale wrote many bitter and satirical denunciations of the Catholic Church, many in the form of plays.

Edited by Jor-el
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Any evidence that he actually said such a thing?

Only the written word recorded by someone else...hey, sounds a lot like all holy books.

Faith over Evidence I suppose, you take what you want from it and choose to believe it.

I wouldn't put it past old Leo, nor many of the older popes and religious officials, they knew how to extract power from the gullible in the past and humans love power.

Edited by Sean93

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Oh that might stir up a bit. The pope that admited the church was a fraud and religion or christianity was a scam. That pope....

Sorry wrong pope

seems LEo was gay

And whatever gay people say is wrong?

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Oh crap I just edited to ad that bit.

Apparently even the Queen mother would turn into a giant reptilian, sexually abuse people, kill them and eat them.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles06.htm

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Only the written word recorded by someone else...hey, sounds a lot like all holy books.

Faith over Evidence I suppose, you take what you want from it and choose to believe it.

I wouldn't put it past old Leo, nor many of the older popes and religious officials, they knew how to extract power from the gullible in the past and humans love power.

There is no written record of he ever having said any such thing, that is the problem, it is essentially taking words from a play and making them sound historical... I think that is a little different from what you are stating.

Let me repeat, we are talking of a "play". Not one word of this has ever been found anywhere else. I don't defend those people, who called themselves Popes but were merely consumate politicians, wheelers and dealers to the last, but I do uphold a standard where we can't put words in their mouths just because they were corrupt in everything they did.

Edited by Jor-el

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Then I shall quote another person "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." Pope Leo X.

Take that.

As others have said this quote is from a work of fiction. And with that clarified I wish you all the best for the coming New Year :)

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Why would anybody worship a god that allows children to be molested and killed? If you want my worship you need to give something in return.

Your question sounds like it is in reference to christianity and similar monotheistic belief systems and I has a similar pondering eh

A couple decades ago in my Saturn return years and I got an answer from a very wise teacher that helps me sometimes (not all the time because I am still a student, I don't know everything and don't presume too) I'll paraphrase it for you.

If you have a moment, I'd like to talk to you about Jesus Christ..no, no, I'm just kidding...lol

I was told that our collective consciences is "god" that our collective conscience god allows certain acts too occur because we agree to have it happen for reasons that go deeper than our individual consciences can fathom but function on a "for the highest god of all" and a karma type of deal.

For instance, let's use Jeff Dahmer as an example, what he did was absolutely heinous, disgusting, vile, evil and just wrong, no doing about it. My teacher would explain that, this act was agreed upon at some point by all of us. Each act of vile murder was a pebble thrown into our pond and the ripples set off different reactions/effects for every soul involved.

With me so far?

One of his victims was a young gay man that grew up teased by family and bullied by school mates, he had very poor self esteem, his family was dysfunctional half alcoholics the purge half drug addicts, as our young victim was.

When dahmer was caught and it was discovered this young man was a victim his family went nuts. They did that whole, "he's was loved by everyone who meet him" & "he was such a loving person" spiel in the beginning and using their tragedy as an excuse to do more drugs and alcohol but when life progressed and the spinning slowed down, they came together. They realized how messed up they were and went on to correct their lives and lived happily ever after!

Well, not really but the gist is that we are all connected and each act, as innocuous as it may seem, effects everyone in some way, and the agreement to allow it to happen is for the highest good of all. The highest good to come out of that example??? I have no idea, life is on-going, what is good for one is not necessarily good for another so, its on an individual basis.

With all that said, what the heck do I know about life??? Not much, that's why I live it moment to moment and take other peoples beliefs on life with a grain of salt...because they don't know **** for sure either..

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Lava_Lady,

If I may...let me synthesize all of that down for you. It is liken unto thus: There is only one thing that exists. That one thing is energy. Somehow, and I don't presume to know how, and I am extremely wary of anyone who proposes that they do know how, nonetheless, somehow, this Energy manifests in an infinite number of forms, on an infinite number of levels, for an infinite number of reasons, none of which you or I are privy to. The stars, the space between the stars, all Energy. Some call this Energy God. And some propose that because 'everything is God' then we are God and so I am God and you are God.

I don't buy any of that...I just call it Energy. There is a magnetic resonance that governs the Universe...and this magnetic resonance is also Energy. Again, Energy is the only thing that exists. Why it manifests, how it manifests...the illusive mystery that is unknowable. Why? An unanswerable question...and the OPs question is irrelevant because it is based on a false premise...therefore..all resulting discussion of God and Why this or why that is an effort born of futility and boredom. Thank you. No charge....unless you feel you need to pay for this otherwise priceless information, in which case I do have a Pay-pal account. :D

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This is correct free will and all that however, when God gave several of his chosen people permission to kill, take land, condone rape etc. who is to blame in your opinion?

I don't know what you believe in terms of a god, although you seem to exhibit the biblical god Yahweh, although correct me if I'm wrong.

,,,in some religions, even their self-proclaimed "prophets" killed, took land, condoned rape, etc. Which takes the hypocrisy of their believers to new levels, when they claim to represent morality. Anyway, all religions represent irrational beliefs, and we should stop "respecting" them simply because they demand respect. Respect has to be earned, and most religions fail miserably in that.

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who is to blame in your opinion?

Both "god" and the people.

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,,,in some religions, even their self-proclaimed "prophets" killed, took land, condoned rape, etc. Which takes the hypocrisy of their believers to new levels, when they claim to represent morality. Anyway, all religions represent irrational beliefs, and we should stop "respecting" them simply because they demand respect. Respect has to be earned, and most religions fail miserably in that.

I think Chris Hitchens said it best: "Religion now comes to us in this smiley-face ingratiating way, because it's had to give so much ground and because we know so much more. But you've no right to forget the way it behaved when it was strong, and when it really did believe that it had God on its side."

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I think Chris Hitchens said it best: "Religion now comes to us in this smiley-face ingratiating way, because it's had to give so much ground and because we know so much more. But you've no right to forget the way it behaved when it was strong, and when it really did believe that it had God on its side."

tumblr_mco08i6huO1r57or6o1_250.jpg

The above sign I think also applies to Hitchens...

Let me put it to you, that without God, you have no "Unalienable Rights", all your Moral stances are like so much chaff in the wind.

Edited by Jor-el

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tumblr_mco08i6huO1r57or6o1_250.jpg

The above sign I think also applies to Hitchens...

Let me put it to you, that without God, you have no "Unalienable Rights", all your Moral stances are like so much chaff in the wind.

If you actually believe that then I have lost all respect for you.

Edited by HavocWing
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tumblr_mco08i6huO1r57or6o1_250.jpg

The above sign I think also applies to Hitchens...

Let me put it to you, that without God, you have no "Unalienable Rights", all your Moral stances are like so much chaff in the wind.

Unalienable Rights were not handed out by God...they are Ideals of Man..enforced by the edge of the sword, the powder and lead of the gun and the sweat, tears, and blood of those who invision them as non-compromising.

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tumblr_mco08i6huO1r57or6o1_250.jpg

The above sign I think also applies to Hitchens...

Let me put it to you, that without God, you have no "Unalienable Rights", all your Moral stances are like so much chaff in the wind.

Hilarious. Everyone dies and I can bet God never said that...unless you can hear him and happen to have been around in 1900.

I can see your hunger for justice, nothing wrong with that but the universe owes you nothing.

I don't get my morality from god or the bible, I get it from experience and from the consequences I face as a human if I attempt to ruin the lives of others. Unalienable rights or rights that transcend the physical world are just something someone thought up to keep themselves happy, to make them feel significant. I think we're insignificant but then I'm inclined to an opinion and care not if someone disagree's with it.

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If you actually believe that then I have lost all respect for you.

Truth is seldom easily accepted.

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Unalienable Rights were not handed out by God...they are Ideals of Man..enforced by the edge of the sword, the powder and lead of the gun and the sweat, tears, and blood of those who invision them as non-compromising.

Actually that is incorrect, without God, you have no rights anyone needs to respect. I don't speak for myself here, it is basic logic, it is exactly how life is without God and how life used to be without God, and guess what, it will be what life will be like in the future, without God. It is the power of the strong over the weak, the natural order of things...

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Hilarious. Everyone dies and I can bet God never said that...unless you can hear him and happen to have been around in 1900.

I can see your hunger for justice, nothing wrong with that but the universe owes you nothing.

I don't get my morality from god or the bible, I get it from experience and from the consequences I face as a human if I attempt to ruin the lives of others. Unalienable rights or rights that transcend the physical world are just something someone thought up to keep themselves happy, to make them feel significant. I think we're insignificant but then I'm inclined to an opinion and care not if someone disagree's with it.

Of course God never said, that, but then again, neither did Neitzche, His phrase has been totally misused over the years...

“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?”

Nietzsche’s works express a fear that the decline of religion, the rise of atheism, and the absence of a higher moral authority would plunge the world into chaos. The western world had depended on the rule of God for thousands of years — it gave order to society and meaning to life. Without it, Nietzsche writes, society will move into an age of nihilism. Although Nietzsche may have been considered a nihilist by definition, he was critical of it and warned that accepting nihilism would be dangerous.

Funny, but Nietzche expressed exactly what I have stated.

Edited by Jor-el
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Of course God never said, that, but then again, neither did Neitzche, His phrase has been totally misused over the years...

“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?”

Nietzsche’s works express a fear that the decline of religion, the rise of atheism, and the absence of a higher moral authority would plunge the world into chaos. The western world had depended on the rule of God for thousands of years — it gave order to society and meaning to life. Without it, Nietzsche writes, society will move into an age of nihilism. Although Nietzsche may have been considered a nihilist by definition, he was critical of it and warned that accepting nihilism would be dangerous.

Funny, but Nietzche expressed exactly what I have stated.

If he never said that exact quote then why use it in the first place? Furthermore, why use his name in a negative light "Niettzche is dead" and then use him positively when you find a way to spin his web on your favor?

Religion and god may give meaning to the lives of many and that's fine and dandy but it works the same way as knowing Daddy is in the house when you fear the monster in the closet. As for saying that the rule of God gave order to society...are you ******* insane? You talk as if religion and god brought peace and prosperity to the land and now that Atheism is on the rise that that order is breaking down. In case you haven't noticed, in today's developed societies, we no longer pay indulgences, no longer have inquisitors killing witches and damning astronomers and above all, Atheists can actually express their opinions in public now without being Hanged, Drawn and Quartered so the quote I used from Hitchen's above stands firmly: Religion has had to sacrifice a lot and I'm glad Atheism rose to it's challenge, I certainly would not want to be living in a repressed and superstitiously ruled society where I can be killed for disagreeing with some idiot in a pointy hat. **** that.

God may be an anchor to the lives of many, and that is fine but all your talk of objective moral values is only faith, we can be good without God, in fact we can be better than god.

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Actually that is incorrect, without God, you have no rights anyone needs to respect. I don't speak for myself here, it is basic logic, it is exactly how life is without God and how life used to be without God, and guess what, it will be what life will be like in the future, without God. It is the power of the strong over the weak, the natural order of things...

No that is not basic logic, your "god" is the mirror image of the beast of revelation in your holy book. Death to those who don't worship him. There over 7 billion humans on this planet, we don't need to follow the philosophy of "might is right". That is pure egotism and is dishonorable. We have brains, time to start using them before we die because of some brain dead lunatic who thinks there can be only one.

Edited by HavocWing
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No that is not basic logic, your "god" is the mirror image of the beast of revelation in your holy book. Death to those who don't worship him. There over 7 billion humans on this planet, we don't need to follow the philosophy of "might is right". That is pure egotism and is dishonorable. We have brains, time to start using them before we die because of some brain dead lunatic who thinks there can be only one.

True egotism can best be expressed in the belief that one's brain can out think the creator, and that the creator is the unjust one, not them who express such contempt for him. That's what is truly dishonorable.

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True egotism can best be expressed in the belief that one's brain can out think the creator, and that the creator is the unjust one, not them who express such contempt for him. That's what is truly dishonorable.

A box of rocks can out think him. Just about everyone is smarter than him.

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True egotism can best be expressed in the belief that one's brain can out think the creator, and that the creator is the unjust one, not them who express such contempt for him. That's what is truly dishonorable.

I think Egotism more so expresses its self in people who parade around, claiming to know the mind of god without an Iota of evidence or fact to back up their claims.

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Truth is seldom easily accepted.

That certainly works both ways.

What makes your Truth any more viable and true than that of Islam?

Just say Faith instead of being so close-minded as to call Objective Moral Values 'Basic Knowledge'. If it's so basic then why do so many people disagree with it? If it was basic it would be easy to understand and believe but alas it is not.

Are you saying that we need God to be good?

Edited by Sean93
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Lava_Lady,

If I may...let me synthesize all of that down for you. It is liken unto thus: There is only one thing that exists. That one thing is energy. Somehow, and I don't presume to know how, and I am extremely wary of anyone who proposes that they do know how, nonetheless, somehow, this Energy manifests in an infinite number of forms, on an infinite number of levels, for an infinite number of reasons, none of which you or I are privy to. The stars, the space between the stars, all Energy. Some call this Energy God. And some propose that because 'everything is God' then we are God and so I am God and you are God.

I don't buy any of that...I just call it Energy. There is a magnetic resonance that governs the Universe...and this magnetic resonance is also Energy. Again, Energy is the only thing that exists. Why it manifests, how it manifests...the illusive mystery that is unknowable. Why? An unanswerable question...and the OPs question is irrelevant because it is based on a false premise...therefore..all resulting discussion of God and Why this or why that is an effort born of futility and boredom. Thank you. No charge....unless you feel you need to pay for this otherwise priceless information, in which case I do have a Pay-pal account. :D

That's not exactly what I was trying to say but thanks. ;)

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