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blind pew

Why?

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I think Egotism more so expresses its self in people who parade around, claiming to know the mind of god without an Iota of evidence or fact to back up their claims.

I'm simply following Jesus Christ, who essentially is God in human form. It's all on paper. Simply comes down to whether you believe him or not. It isn't from my head like your's are.

A box of rocks can out think him. Just about everyone is smarter than him.

Thank you for validating my point on true egotism.

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Actually that is incorrect, without God, you have no rights anyone needs to respect. I don't speak for myself here, it is basic logic, it is exactly how life is without God and how life used to be without God, and guess what, it will be what life will be like in the future, without God. It is the power of the strong over the weak, the natural order of things...

The strong over the weak applies only to the 'animal kingdom'. Mankind is different. We exhibit an awareness of self. That self realizes itself mostly as Ego. As such, the 'gods' of prophets, ancient and dead, such as Moses, Abraham and Mohammed gave their 'god' Human Like qualities...anger, jealousy, etc.

God was invented by the mind of man and is not logical.

That being said...I have no qualms whatsoever with those who strongly believe in God...even those who do have qualms with those who do not.

Edited by joc
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The strong over the weak applies only to the 'animal kingdom'. Mankind is different. We exhibit an awareness of self. That self realizes itself mostly as Ego. As such, the 'gods' of prophets, ancient and dead, such as Moses, Abraham and Mohammed gave their 'god' Human Like qualities...anger, jealousy, etc.

God was invented by the mind of man and is not logical.

That being said...I have no qualms whatsoever with those who strongly believe in God...even those who do have qualms with those who do not.

That's actually quite a good point. They say art imitates life and literature is considered by many as art; the bible is literature.

Of course prepare yourself for the debate to take this form: "God expresses himself in ways of human emotion and behavioral characteristics because our minds cannot comprehend God and his being and so he had to tone himself down for us in a way that we could understand.

Something there and about's.

Edited by Sean93
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Actually I disagree. Jesus Christ didn't exhibit normal human reactions to things. Turn the other cheek, love every human being despite their wrongs, be willing to die for the unbeliever as opposed to the believer, etc etc.. These aren't human traits. No normal rational human would do this, it goes against our genetics and instinct. I personally find this all as more than enough evidence for the divine, yet of course there will be those that disagree.

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Actually I disagree. Jesus Christ didn't exhibit normal human reactions to things. Turn the other cheek, love every human being despite their wrongs, be willing to die for the unbeliever as opposed to the believer, etc etc.. These aren't human traits. No normal rational human would do this, it goes against our genetics and instinct. I personally find this all as more than enough evidence for the divine, yet of course there will be those that disagree.

Are you sure that with some of the other things he said like I have not come to bring peace but division and I have come to turn son against father, and let them deny themselves and take up their cross statements isn't just an incredibly vain attempt at revenge for rejecting and crucifying him???

That is what I think of it.

Edited by HavocWing

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Are you sure that with some of the other things he said like I have not come to bring peace but division and I have come to turn son against father, and let them deny themselves and take up their cross statements isn't just an incredibly vain attempt at revenge for rejecting and crucifying him???

That is what I think of it.

Are you yourself admitting his divine insight? Other words your statement makes no sense. How could he take revenge against an event that was yet to have taken place?

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Are you yourself admitting his divine insight? Other words your statement makes no sense. How could he take revenge against an event that was yet to have taken place?

What? Was he not crucified?? Was he not rejected by his own (the cult of the nazarene)?

Edited by HavocWing

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What? Was he not crucified?? Was he not rejected by his own (the cult of the nazarene)?

You're missing my point entirely. You seem to be admitting that Jesus forknew his own crucifiction and rejection of the Jews. Otherwise he couldn't possibly have taken revenge against it by making such statements. Therefore exactly what point are you trying to get at?

By the way, he was rejected by the Jews, who were not a cult. By "cult of the nazarene" I assume you mean of Jesus, and therefore you contradict yourself again because his followers didn't reject him, the jews did.

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You're missing my point entirely. You seem to be admitting that Jesus forknew his own crucifiction and rejection of the Jews. Otherwise he couldn't possibly have taken revenge against it by making such statements. Therefore exactly what point are you trying to get at?

By the way, he was rejected by the Jews, who were not a cult. By "cult of the nazarene" I assume you mean of Jesus, and therefore you contradict yourself again because his followers didn't reject him, the jews did.

You're missing my point, he is like one of those mad people who gets fired from his job and then goes back to it and shoots everyone there and then lights the place on fire.

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It's not "God" doing that. people abuse authority/religion. If there was no "God" those same people would find a different way to bend the will of others to get what they want.

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You're missing my point, he is like one of those mad people who gets fired from his job and then goes back to it and shoots everyone there and then lights the place on fire.

It seems you don't really have a clue what you are talking about...but that is okay..most Christians don't either. 99.9% of all Christians think the most important thing is to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and came back to life three days after he was very, very dead. The teachings of Jesus and his character, for the most part, fall by the wayside. If you actually knew the character of Jesus, you would never analogize him in the way you did. But, in order to know his character, you have to study the life of Jesus, which means, reading the books. You know, the one's the apostles wrote.

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It seems you don't really have a clue what you are talking about...but that is okay..most Christians don't either. 99.9% of all Christians think the most important thing is to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and came back to life three days after he was very, very dead. The teachings of Jesus and his character, for the most part, fall by the wayside. If you actually knew the character of Jesus, you would never analogize him in the way you did. But, in order to know his character, you have to study the life of Jesus, which means, reading the books. You know, the one's the apostles wrote.

I have read them. I know what I am talking about.

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The vast majority of Christians have read the scriptures...they read them every Sunday...but reading the scriptures is by no means the same thing as studying the character of Jesus...that...is what I am talking about.

Your former post:

Are you sure that with some of the other things he said like I have not come to bring peace but division and I have come to turn son against father, and let them deny themselves and take up their cross statements isn't just an incredibly vain attempt at revenge for rejecting and crucifying him???

That is what I think of it.

You think that because you do not know the character of Jesus. That is all I'm saying.

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The vast majority of Christians have read the scriptures...they read them every Sunday...but reading the scriptures is by no means the same thing as studying the character of Jesus...that...is what I am talking about.

Your former post:

You think that because you do not know the character of Jesus. That is all I'm saying.

His character is portrayed in the bible. There is even a verse in the bible that says most people thought "he is raving mad and hath a devil, why ye hear him?"

John 10:20

Edited by HavocWing

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I'm simply following Jesus Christ, who essentially is God in human form. It's all on paper. Simply comes down to whether you believe him or not. It isn't from my head like your's are.

Thank you for validating my point on true egotism.

I thought Jesus Christ was the son of man, or was he the only begotten Son of God? And if he is "god" in human form who is he talking to when he prayed? Also, why did "God in human form" need to be challenged by the devil when we went into the desert? I would think the creator of the world be beyond that.

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His character is portrayed in the bible. There is even a verse in the bible that says most people thought "he is raving mad and hath a devil, why ye hear him?"

Okay, you aren't getting it so let me elaborate just a bit for example:

Jesus went into the wilderness. He was there forty days and forty nights. He was very hungry. When he was tempted to turn rocks into bread, he didn't do it.

There is a miracle told by his followers that he turned water into wine at a party when the guests ran out. That is a flat out lie! Oh, no it's not, the faithful say, the Bible doesn't lie. Well, I know it is a lie, because I know his character. He wouldn't attempt to turn rocks into bread when he was starving...why on gods grey earth would he attempt to turn water into wine at a party? He wouldn't.

Okay a, more to the point, example. He spent three years talking about forgiveness and how the church was run by a bunch of hypocrits (which is why they killed him) He knew that what he was doing was going to result in his being crucified, he knew this because he knew the bunch of hypocrits he was talking about and he knew they would plot against him to keep their own power...and on the cross...he forgave them...so why on god's grey earth do you think he would speak about getting revenge on them? It is because of his character. Honest men are honest. Liars tell lies. Something you can count on from a person because of their character.

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I thought Jesus Christ was the son of man, or was he the only begotten Son of God? And if he is "god" in human form who is he talking to when he prayed? Also, why did "God in human form" need to be challenged by the devil when we went into the desert? I would think the creator of the world be beyond that.

This goes hand in hand with what I have been saying. Did Jesus ever say he was the son of God? No. In fact, he repeatedly refered to himself as the son of Man. But the church turns his words the way they want...to perpetuate the myth. Because, without the myth...their faith is dead. Again, I don't have any problem with anyone believing that...most do...I am just one who has to 'see' the truth in it all...and truth is logical.

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Okay, you aren't getting it so let me elaborate just a bit for example:

Jesus went into the wilderness. He was there forty days and forty nights. He was very hungry. When he was tempted to turn rocks into bread, he didn't do it.

There is a miracle told by his followers that he turned water into wine at a party when the guests ran out. That is a flat out lie! Oh, no it's not, the faithful say, the Bible doesn't lie. Well, I know it is a lie, because I know his character. He wouldn't attempt to turn rocks into bread when he was starving...why on gods grey earth would he attempt to turn water into wine at a party? He wouldn't.

Okay a, more to the point, example. He spent three years talking about forgiveness and how the church was run by a bunch of hypocrits (which is why they killed him) He knew that what he was doing was going to result in his being crucified, he knew this because he knew the bunch of hypocrits he was talking about and he knew they would plot against him to keep their own power...and on the cross...he forgave them...so why on god's grey earth do you think he would speak about getting revenge on them? It is because of his character. Honest men are honest. Liars tell lies. Something you can count on from a person because of their character.

What I find funny is how he says to love your enemy, but condemns satan (which means the enemy) and all his angels (more enemies) to eternal torment in the lake of fire. He has got to be the biggest hypocrite to have ever lived.

Edited by HavocWing

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What I find funny is how he says to love your enemy, but condemns satan (which means the enemy) and all his angels (more enemies) to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

Jesus never condemed anyone to anything. You like to quote scripture...show me where he did what you just said. As a matter of fact, the character of Jesus again comes into play (as it always does) when he told the whore, Where have all your accusers gone? Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more.

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Jesus never condemed anyone to anything. You like to quote scripture...show me where he did what you just said. As a matter of fact, the character of Jesus again comes into play (as it always does) when he told the whore, Where have all your accusers gone? Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more.

http://bible.cc/revelation/20-10.htm

Follow the links.

And I.M.O. he had the hots for mary, that is why he "spared" her. Has to go with the process of sexual selection, but that is not on topic, then again this hasn't been on topic for a while.

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http://bible.cc/revelation/20-10.htm

Follow the links.

And I.M.O. he had the hots for mary, that is why he "spared" her. Has to go with the process of sexual selection, but that is not on topic, then again this hasn't been on topic for a while.

Revelations was written by an anonymous author and all of it came out of his own mind. There is nothing in Revelations that reflects anything that Jesus did or said in the real world.

But...I can see by your sig link that you do have a rather perverse view of the beliefs of others and so, I bid you good day.

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Revelations was written by an anonymous author and all of it came out of his own mind. There is nothing in Revelations that reflects anything that Jesus did or said in the real world.

But...I can see by your sig link that you do have a rather perverse view of the beliefs of others and so, I bid you good day.

Then it is all invalid.

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What I find funny is how he says to love your enemy, but condemns satan (which means the enemy) and all his angels (more enemies) to eternal torment in the lake of fire. He has got to be the biggest hypocrite to have ever lived.

Condemning somebody is what you do to people who break the law, criminal not enemy. Which is why judge and jury are supposed to get changed if they know anybody involved :) Since Jesus has that whole love everybody thing going on screams impartial judge more then spiteful enemy. This also explains some of his more violent tendencies that may happen in revelations.

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I thought Jesus Christ was the son of man, or was he the only begotten Son of God? And if he is "god" in human form who is he talking to when he prayed? Also, why did "God in human form" need to be challenged by the devil when we went into the desert? I would think the creator of the world be beyond that.

1 - in Christian theology Jesus is both the son of man and the son of God, while at the same time being God Himself. Not easy to wrap our heads around that one (even for Christians, I don't certainly claim to "get" it all).

2 - Jesus was praying to the Father. Again this is the whole Trinity thing. Not easily explained in human terms, it just is what it is.

3 - Jesus' temptation in the desert was a symbolic act. Jesus went out into the desert for 40 days and 40 nights, tempted by Satan. Sound familiar to an Old Testament story? Go back to the Exodus in Egypt, where the Israelites faltered and sinned, and as a result were condemned to wander the desert for 40 years. Jesus re-enacts the Exodus by wandering the desert for 40 days and nights, but where Israel failed and faltered, Jesus remained true to God. He was, in short, representing a faithful Israel, the True Israel. He did what Israel could not do - avoid the temptation of Satan. In short, that was the purpose of the temptation in the desert.

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Okay, you aren't getting it so let me elaborate just a bit for example:

Jesus went into the wilderness. He was there forty days and forty nights. He was very hungry. When he was tempted to turn rocks into bread, he didn't do it.

There is a miracle told by his followers that he turned water into wine at a party when the guests ran out. That is a flat out lie! Oh, no it's not, the faithful say, the Bible doesn't lie. Well, I know it is a lie, because I know his character. He wouldn't attempt to turn rocks into bread when he was starving...why on gods grey earth would he attempt to turn water into wine at a party? He wouldn't.

As I mentioned above to Lava Lady, the temptation in the wilderness was Jesus' way to let people know that he was the true representation of Israel, by not giving into the temptation of Satan. When Jesus was at the wedding and they ran out of wine, he wasn't giving in to Satan, therefore it is entirely within Jesus' character to do as he did.

This goes hand in hand with what I have been saying. Did Jesus ever say he was the son of God? No. In fact, he repeatedly refered to himself as the son of Man. But the church turns his words the way they want...to perpetuate the myth. Because, without the myth...their faith is dead. Again, I don't have any problem with anyone believing that...most do...I am just one who has to 'see' the truth in it all...and truth is logical.

Jesus never says he is NOT the son of God. Even when many people refer to him as the son of God, he never denies it. Demons call him the son of God, angels call him the son of God, his followers call him the son of God. Not once does he say "no, that is not correct".

Jesus never condemed anyone to anything. You like to quote scripture...show me where he did what you just said. As a matter of fact, the character of Jesus again comes into play (as it always does) when he told the whore, Where have all your accusers gone? Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more.

Jesus speaking: "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41). Albeit this is in the context of a parable, and therefore may not be the actual way of things, but he does say it. I don't personally believe this alone is enough to warrant an entire doctrine on the existence of the afterlife, but it does acknowledge a fate for the devil and his angels and backs up other New Testament passages which attest the fate of Satan.

Revelations was written by an anonymous author and all of it came out of his own mind. There is nothing in Revelations that reflects anything that Jesus did or said in the real world.

But...I can see by your sig link that you do have a rather perverse view of the beliefs of others and so, I bid you good day.

If you wish to go down that road, all four canonical gospels are also anonymous. 2nd Century tradition attributes them to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but that is just tradition. Edited by Paranoid Android
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