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Abramelin

Europeans in Pre-Columbian Baffin Island?

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Mysterious European Figure in Pre-Columbian Baffin Island

A thirteenth- or fourteenth-century Thule ivory carving from southern Baffin Island in Canada should hardly surprise anyone. After all, the Thule Inuit did dwell in this place at that time. But when Debora Sabo dug up the carving pictured above in 1972 she was understandably jolted by her discovery, so much so that she dedicated an entire article to it. The shock is the subject of the ivory statuette. Our medieval Inuit has carved a non Inuit visitor of some description to the far Canadian north: that much is certain as the carving is utterly unlike an Inuit portrayal of Inuit. But who is this individual and where does he come from? The man in question is wearing a long tunic with a border along the bottom and with a split at the bottom. There is also a cross hanging down over the chest or even emblazoned on the front of the tunic. The man is hooded, a sensible precaution on Baffin Island, and looks as if he has a fencing mask on.

post-18246-0-49816800-1356593388_thumb.j

More here:

http://www.strangehistory.net/2012/12/27/mysterious-european-figure-in-pre-columbian-baffin-island/

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Interesting and doesn't surprise me. The Vikings found North American long before Columbus found the Caribbean. Are there any other sources. I looked but I didn't find anything. I like to find other sources for things for odd discoveries like this. Thanks for the post.

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Interesting and doesn't surprise me. The Vikings found North American long before Columbus found the Caribbean. Are there any other sources. I looked but I didn't find anything. I like to find other sources for things for odd discoveries like this. Thanks for the post.

You're welcome.

Of course I thought of the Vikings, but did these Vikings wear large crosses over their chests?

There are stories about a possible landing of the Knights Templar in North America, and this find might be an indication that that did indeed happen.

632549_f260.jpg

Edited by Abramelin
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Never know, they may have hitched a ride with the pagans. I think Europeans have been coming to the Americas as long as they have had boats, it just wasn't recorded.

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Well considering the norse traders ventured through the canadian arctic and labrador/straight of st. lawrence for literally the better part of 500 years, why is this surprising? :unsure2:

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Well considering the norse traders ventured through the canadian arctic and labrador/straight of st. lawrence for literally the better part of 500 years, why is this surprising? :unsure2:

No, that wasn't the arctic as we consider it now, was it? The only surprising thing is that it was that far north.

Baffin Island is a long, long way from L'Anse aux Meadows.

Edited by Likely Guy

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You're welcome.

Of course I thought of the Vikings, but did these Vikings wear large crosses over their chests?

There are stories about a possible landing of the Knights Templar in North America, and this find might be an indication that that did indeed happen.

632549_f260.jpg

In my humble opinion, the cross on the chest isn't pronounced enough. The 'christian cross' is merely the graphic representation of the pectoral muscles (man boobs) and the sternum.

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No, that wasn't the arctic as we consider it now, was it? The only surprising thing is that it was that far north.

Baffin Island is a long, long way from L'Anse aux Meadows.

But its a stones throw from greenland...the most northern norse artifacts come from Axel-Heidelburg (sp??) island I believe... still, its an amazing, hardly explored part of our history. :)

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In my humble opinion, the cross on the chest isn't pronounced enough. The 'christian cross' is merely the graphic representation of the pectoral muscles (man boobs) and the sternum.

You think they walked around bare chested? It's not what you would expect in a climate like that.

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In September 2008, Nunatsiaq News reported that a team led by Dr. Patricia Sutherland had found archaeological remains of yarn, rats, tally sticks, a carved wooden Dorset culture face mask depicting Caucasian features, and possible architectural remains, which place European traders and possibly settlers on Baffin Island not later than AD 1000. What the source of this Old World contact may have been is unclear; the report states: "Dating of some yarn and other artifacts, presumed to be left by Vikings on Baffin Island, have produced an age that predates the Vikings by several hundred years. So [...] you have to consider the possibility that as remote as it may seem, these finds may represent evidence of contact with Europeans prior to the Vikings' arrival in Greenland". Dr Sutherland's research eventually led to a 2012 announcement that whetstones had been found with remnants of alloys indicative of Viking presence. The archaeological site at Nanook is thought to be a trading post and port, and thus Baffin Island would be Helluland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baffin_Island

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And here's what I posted in the Oera Linda Book thread:

This thread started with the book by Alewyn, and in his book he suggests ALDLAND/ ATLAND could have been the Faroer islands at the time it was much larger.

Alewyn described geological processes by which it could have been destroyed, leaving only the present archipelago.

Yes, it may have been a much larger area of land, but hardly habitable when it was larger because that must have been during the last Ice Age, the Faroer being land covered in an ice sheet, or bordering it.

Did Frisians live in the Faroer? Yes, they did, and as pirates at its southern tip. But that was during the middle ages (around the 12th century CE, Akraberg).

OK, here's something new (I think), and again from Adam von Bremen:

Frisian expedition to the North Pole

[iv. 39.] “Archbishop Adalbert, of blessed memory, likewise told us that in his predecessor’s days certain noblemen from Friesland, intending to plough the sea, set sail northwards, because people say there that due north of the mouth of the river Wirraha [Weser] no land is to be met with, but only an infinite ocean. They joined together to investigate this curious thing, and left the Frisian coast with cheerful song. Then they left Dania on one side, Britain on the other, and reached the Orkneys. When they had left these behind on the left, and had Nordmannia on the right, they reached after a long voyage the frozen Iceland. Ploughing the seas from this land towards the extreme axis of the north, after seeing behind them all the islands already mentioned, and confiding their lives and their boldness to Almighty God and the holy preacher Willehad, they suddenly glided into the misty darkness of the stiffened ocean, which can scarcely be penetrated by the eye. And behold! the stream of the unstable sea there ran back into one of its secret sources, drawing at a fearful speed the unhappy seamen, who had already given up hope and only thought of death, into that profound chaos (this is said to be the gulf of the abyss) in which it is said that all the back-currents of the sea, which seem to abate, are sucked up and vomited forth again, which latter is usually called flood-tide. While they were then calling upon God’s mercy, that He might receive their souls, this backward-running stream of the sea caught some of their fellows’ ships, but the rest were shot [Pg 196]out by the issuing current far beyond the others. When they had thus by God’s help been delivered from the imminent danger, which had been before their very eyes, they saved themselves upon the waves by rowing with all their strength.

[iv. 40.] “And being now past the danger of darkness and the region of cold they landed unexpectedly upon an island, which was fortified like a town, with cliffs all about it. They landed there to see the place, and found people who at midday hid themselves in underground caves; before the doors of these lay an immense quantity of golden vessels and metal of the sort which is regarded by mortals as rare and precious; when therefore they had taken as much of the treasures as they could lift, the rowers hastened gladly back to their ships. Then suddenly they saw people of marvellous height coming behind them, whom we call Cyclopes, and before them ran dogs which surpassed the usual size of these animals. One of the men was caught, as these rushed forward, and in an instant he was torn to pieces before their eyes; but the rest were taken up into the ships and escaped the danger, although, as they related, the giants followed them with cries nearly into deep sea. With such a fate pursuing them, the Frisians came to Bremen, where they told the most reverend Alebrand everything in order as it happened, and made offerings to the gentle Christ and his preacher Willehad for their safe return.”

http://www.gutenberg...3-h/40633-h.htm

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From that same thread:

Adam von Bremen lived in the second half of the 11th century:

http://en.wikipedia..../Adam_of_Bremen

He talks about the Frisians sailing to the North Pole and mentions their contemporary, the reverend Alebrand, to whom they told about their adventures after they returned.:

http://de.wikipedia....rand_von_Bremen

So the Frisians are said to have reached... what? Greenland? America?... in the middle of the eleventh century.

http://en.wikipedia....lehad_of_Bremen

The Zeno brothers lived in the 14th century: http://en.wikipedia....i/Zeno_brothers

Their story about those mythical islands, like Frieslant Island, is said to be a fabrication (based on the Faroer), but could Adam von Bremen have been their source?

And did the Frisians reach the Americas in the 11th century CE??

Niccolò Zeno.

The voyages of the Venetian brothers, Nicolò & Antonio Zeno, to the northern seas in the XIVth century : comprising the latest known accounts of the lost colony of Greenland and of the Northmen in America before Columbus

http://archive.org/d...netia00zenorich

Gesta Hammaburgensis ecclesiae pontificum - Adam von Bremen

http://archive.org/d...urgen00adamuoft

Tschan, F.J. (ed.) Adam of Bremen: History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen (New York 1959)

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

An Eleventh-Century Frisian Voyage to

Labrador: Possibilities and Probabilities

Donald D Hogarth

University of Ottawa, Canada, 2011

Scholars have largely dismissed Adam of Bremen’s account of an eleventh

century Frisian voyage to “the northwest” due to elements of the story

characterized as too mythological or obscure to be worthy of study. This

article attempts to bring some clarity to the opposing views, highlighting

what might be a “possible” interpretation of this problematic voyage.

[..]

Summary of the northwest voyage of the Frisians: possible

sequence and events

Sometime about 1040 ce, a group of East Frisians, led by several noblemen, left

the mouth of the Weser River, sailed west to England, turned north to the Orkneys,

probably passed or landed at the Faroes, then landed on Iceland. From here, the

story becomes less definite, due to a complete lack of place names. However, the

route around Greenland — across Davis Strait to the Cumberland Peninsula of Baffin

Island and into Frobisher Bay, skirting the coast of southern Labrador — follows

a well traveled Viking trail. Off Cumberland Sound they would have encountered

icebergs, in Frobisher Bay, fog and giant tides, and off Resolution Island, fierce tidal

currents. Then, finally, they landed on Castle Island in Chateâu Bay, Labrador, where

a skirmish with Viking treasure guards took place. The Frisians made off with some

of this treasure and, in order to be absolved of piracy back home, invented a tale of

treasure-hoarding Cyclopes and their giant vicious dogs. Part of their treasure was

given to the Church in memory of their patron saint, Willehad. The voyage may have

been motivated as a raid of retribution under the guise of a journey of exploration or

a missionary venture.

http://docserver.ing...DFC0F0057DCCFF7

This Hogarth thinks the Frisians raided the raiders, aka the Vikings.

But like I posted on Februari this year, Martinus Hamconius claimed the Frisians even sailed to the silver mines in Mexico, also in the 11th century:

[xxxiv] See Martinus Hamconius, writing before 1620, who claims that Netherlanders reached the mines of Mexico and settled Chile in Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak" ("Dutch Claim"), op.cit., pp.30-33.

http://www.unexplain...15#entry4218689

So the "Inka" story in the OLB has a basis, be it some 3000 years too late...

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Baffin Island is a long, long way from L'Anse aux Meadows.

The Western Norse Settlement (roughly, present-day Nuuk) was about 400 miles due East of Baffin Island.

Edited by PersonFromPorlock

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Quote from ny former post:

However, the route around Greenland — across Davis Strait to the Cumberland Peninsula of Baffin

Island and into Frobisher Bay, skirting the coast of southern Labrador — follows

a well traveled Viking trail. Off Cumberland Sound they would have encountered

icebergs, in Frobisher Bay, fog and giant tides, and off Resolution Island, fierce tidal

currents. Then, finally, they landed on Castle Island in Chateâu Bay, Labrador, where

a skirmish with Viking treasure guards took place. The Frisians made off with some

of this treasure and, in order to be absolved of piracy back home, invented a tale of

treasure-hoarding Cyclopes and their giant vicious dogs. Part of their treasure was

given to the Church in memory of their patron saint, Willehad. The voyage may have

been motivated as a raid of retribution under the guise of a journey of exploration or

a missionary venture.

What I highlighted in blue may explain the cross on the chest of the figurine.

The time is about right too:

Sometime about 1040 ce, a group of East Frisians, led by several noblemen (...)

-

In September 2008, Nunatsiaq News reported that a team led by Dr. Patricia Sutherland had found archaeological remains of yarn, rats, tally sticks, a carved wooden Dorset culture face mask depicting Caucasian features, and possible architectural remains, which place European traders and possibly settlers on Baffin Island not later than AD 1000.

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Or, in the mid 13-hundreds, the king of norway sent a mission out to Greenland and the "lands to the west" (cough, cough :whistle: ). It was apparently both a mission of exploration and a mission to make sure that Christianity was being enforced. :)

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Or, in the mid 13-hundreds, the king of norway sent a mission out to Greenland and the "lands to the west" (cough, cough :whistle: ). It was apparently both a mission of exploration and a mission to make sure that Christianity was being enforced. :)

But that is at least 300 years too late.

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But that is at least 300 years too late.

Maybe for this one bit of evidence, but arch. finds stretch over a 500 year period and there are later dated carvings very similar. So it makes sense that what was carved is simply some locals interpretation of a priest/monk.

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You think they walked around bare chested? It's not what you would expect in a climate like that.

That was my opinion, you have evidence that the Knights Templar reached North America?

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That was my opinion, you have evidence that the Knights Templar reached North America?

Of course I have no evidence.

I just don't know of any other knights carrying a cross over their chests.

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Maybe for this one bit of evidence, but arch. finds stretch over a 500 year period and there are later dated carvings very similar. So it makes sense that what was carved is simply some locals interpretation of a priest/monk.

If it's a monk then what is that headgear with the vertical lines?

IBK-773283.jpg

http://www.agefotostock.com/en/Stock-Images/Royalty-Free/IBK-773283

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Or is it Leif Ericson?

Helluland is the name given to one of the three lands discovered by Leif Eriksson around AD 1000 on the North Atlantic coast of North America.

Helluland was characterized by the Icelandic Saga of Erik the Red and the Greenland Saga as a land of flat stones (Old Norse: hella). Historians generally agree that Helluland was Baffin Island in the present-day Canadian territory of Nunavut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helluland

Statue of Leif Ericson:

leif-eriksson-greenland.jpg

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A couple of points:

1. The line across the chest, 'suggesting chain mail', suggests a medieval hood covering the head and shoulders a lot more.

2. The 'face mask' may just be characteristic of the Inuit style - the other carvings don't show much if any facial detail. Also, it may be an attempt to show heavy facial hair, which would be totally foreign to Amerinds.

So, a bearded European monk or priest, wearing a hood and somewhat ornate split robe complete with pectoral cross, out to bring the word to the benighted natives circa 1000AD - why not? Or sent to convert the Greenland Vikings, who were by no means all Christians at that point, and getting blown off course (which seems to have happened a lot in the Sagas) and ending up on Baffin Island. It's a mystery without a final solution, but hardly one with no solutions.

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You're welcome.

Of course I thought of the Vikings, but did these Vikings wear large crosses over their chests?

There are stories about a possible landing of the Knights Templar in North America, and this find might be an indication that that did indeed happen.

632549_f260.jpg

The OLB states cooperation between the Frisians and Nordmen (Vikings). So whereever the Vikings traveled, the Frisians might have joined them.

Edited by Knul

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The OLB states cooperation between the Frisians and Nordmen (Vikings). So whereever the Vikings traveled, the Frisians might have joined them.

Yeah, but the OLB places all this in a much earlier timeframe.

Well, you know what I think about it.... ;)

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What I found interesting is that Adam von Bremen said these Frisians came/departed from East Friesland. Now what was a holy place for these East Frisians (and also for Danes, Norse and Swedes and the other Frisians)? That was Helgoland, an island in the German Bight, west of Denmark.

In addition to German, the local population, who are ethnic Frisians, speak the Heligolandic dialect of the North Frisian language called Halunder. Heligoland was formerly called Heyligeland, or "holy land", possibly due to the island's long association with the god Forseti.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heligoland

How did the Vikings (maybe) call Baffin Island: Helluland.

And 'Halunder' is the language spoken on 'Halund'.

Haligoland/Heligoland/Helgoland/Halund >>> Helluland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helluland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NordfriesischeDialekte.png

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