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Ben Masada

Evidence That Jesus Was Married (1)

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EVIDENCE THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED (1)

Imagine 2000 years ago! Today, the 21st Century, a woman cannot address a religious Jew in public to ask or say anything if she is not his wife. Even being his wife, she must walk a few steps back for the sake of traditional Jewish discretion.

Now, let us read John 11:2. "This Mary whose brother Lazarus and sister was Martha, was the one who anointed Jesus with a very expensive perfume and dried his feet with her hair. (John 12:3) Luke says that Mary even kissed Jesus' feet. If a religious Jew could not even be talked to by a woman in public how could Jesus be anointed and touched by a woman and even kissed if she was not his wife? (Luke 7:38) The only way to refute this assertion is by denying that Jesus was a Jew at all, let alone that he was a religious Jew.

Ben

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Are you saying a Rabbi cannot give spiritual counsel to a female in modern-day Israel if she comes up to him in the street to ask?

Somehow I feel that even if this was the case in the 1st Century AD that Jesus wouldn't have cared about the rules. After all, he ate with tax collectors, talking to a woman is pretty normal next to that :whistle:

That said, even if Jesus was married it matters not one whit to me. It doesn't change anything about him.

~ Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android
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Well big Jesus was a bit of a rebel wasn't he?

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Many women followed Jesus including prostitutes

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Are you saying a Rabbi cannot give spiritual counsel to a female in modern-day Israel if she comes up to him in the street to ask?

Somehow I feel that even if this was the case in the 1st Century AD that Jesus wouldn't have cared about the rules. After all, he ate with tax collectors, talking to a woman is pretty normal next to that :whistle:

That said, even if Jesus was married it matters not one whit to me. It doesn't change anything about him.

~ Regards, PA

Talking about an Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi, yes PA, he won't. First of all, an Israeli woman knows she cannot address to a religious Jew

on the street. If someone from outside who does not know the rules, yes, the Rabbi won't talk to her, unless her life is in danger. Even so, he will reach for someone else to help.

Regarding Jesus in the First Century, to eat with tax collectors was one thing to chit-chat with a woman in public something else much different, unless she was his wife, as in the case of Mary.

I am very glad to hear that if Jesus was married, that would change nothing to you with reference to him. IMHO, it would rather enhance his credibility as a serious and loyal Jew that he was.

Ben

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Well big Jesus was a bit of a rebel wasn't he?

I don't think so; unless what one says about him under preconceived notions is to be believed.

Ben

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Many women followed Jesus including prostitutes

I don't think so. True that many would help him with their means but to personally follow him, only Mary IMHO. (Luke 8:3)

Ben

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If he's also the Son of Man, God incarnate in flesh to die for the sins of the people who's blood he bares? I'd think he'd want to experience humanity.

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I don't think so. True that many would help him with their means but to personally follow him, only Mary IMHO. (Luke 8:3)

Luke 8: 1-3 names 3 women who accompanied Jesus "from one town and village and another."

Mary Magdalene

Joanna, the wife of Chuza

Susanna

None of whom is Mary of Bethany, the woman who annointed Jesus in John 12, who in turn isn't the unnanmed sinful woman in Luke 7: 38, who also annointed Jesus, tearfully and with much disapproval from their host, Simon the Pharisee. That woman kissed Jesus' feet without ceasing, 7: 45. Nevertheless, I don't think she's Jesus' wife, either, since a host would hardly call a guest's wife a >ahem< sinner.

Although, there is an American joke on that point.

Host: Georgia Tech is a lousy school; the only people who go there are football players and prostitutes.

Guest: My wife graduated from Georgia Tech.

Host: And what position did your wife play?

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If he's also the Son of Man, God incarnate in flesh to die for the sins of the people who's blood he bares? I'd think he'd want to experience humanity.

I would not worry about that. That's part of the Pauline gospel. Jesus could not have died for the sins of anyone because it is against the Scriptures in Jeremiah 31:30. "No one can die for the sins of another. Only for his own sins shall one die." And for Jesus to have been God's incarnate in the flesh, too bad. Jews don't believe in incarnation of a Spirit. That's too Greek.

Ben

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I would not worry about that. That's part of the Pauline gospel. Jesus could not have died for the sins of anyone because it is against the Scriptures in Jeremiah 31:30. "No one can die for the sins of another. Only for his own sins shall one die." And for Jesus to have been God's incarnate in the flesh, too bad. Jews don't believe in incarnation of a Spirit. That's too Greek.

Ben

Well, let me key you into this new religion called 'Christianity', a few followers of this archaic Abrahamic religion believe that Jesus is the 'Son of God' and 'God himself'.

Personally? I think the concept of a deity is a bit batty.

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Luke 8: 1-3 names 3 women who accompanied Jesus "from one town and village and another."

Mary Magdalene

Joanna, the wife of Chuza

Susanna

None of whom is Mary of Bethany, the woman who annointed Jesus in John 12, who in turn isn't the unnanmed sinful woman in Luke 7: 38, who also annointed Jesus, tearfully and with much disapproval from their host, Simon the Pharisee. That woman kissed Jesus' feet without ceasing, 7: 45. Nevertheless, I don't think she's Jesus' wife, either, since a host would hardly call a guest's wife a >ahem< sinner.

Although, there is an American joke on that point.

Host: Georgia Tech is a lousy school; the only people who go there are football players and prostitutes.

Guest: My wife graduated from Georgia Tech.

Host: And what position did your wife play?

Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany were one and the same. What do you think that Jesus was a kind of "Casa Nova" to be anointed by women wherever he found himself? The point is that Mary was by profession a famous courtezan in the city of Gadara, a fish sea-coast city where Jesus would often hang around with his disciples. He met Mary whom he exorcised seven demons and, obviously fell in love with each other. Eventually, they got married in Cana of Galilee just prior to Jesus' ordination as a Rabbi since he couldn't be one as a single man. (John 2:1-12) Her home in Bethany was cared for by her sister Matha and Lazarus. Mary became known as Magdalene but,

at home, the name was avoided because of the not-too-kosher background.

Ben

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Well, let me key you into this new religion called 'Christianity', a few followers of this archaic Abrahamic religion believe that Jesus is the 'Son of God' and 'God himself'.

Personally? I think the concept of a deity is a bit batty.

Hey Hasina, Christianity was never an Abrahamic religious belief. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God because Paul fabricated that idea when he founded the Christian religion. (Acts 11:26) The whole concept is Hellenistic, as Paul was a Hellenistic Jew from birth. Have you ever heard about the myth of the demigod? That's the son of a god with an earthly woman. Christianity adopted it from Greek Mythology.

Ben

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Hey Hasina, Christianity was never an Abrahamic religious belief. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God because Paul fabricated that idea when he founded the Christian religion. (Acts 11:26) The whole concept is Hellenistic, as Paul was a Hellenistic Jew from birth. Have you ever heard about the myth of the demigod? That's the son of a god with an earthly woman. Christianity adopted it from Greek Mythology.

Ben

And? Does that make Judaism any more 'realistic' then Christianity? Nope. Though when you say 'fabricated' parts of a religion, you'll have to realize any religion that just has no proof of any of it's deity could have the same argument put forth.

Edited by Hasina

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Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany were one and the same.

No, they weren't. Nor was either of them Susanna, nor was either of them Joanna, wife of Chuza, nor was any of those the woman who annointed Jesus at Simon the Pharisee's house.

What do you think that Jesus was a kind of "Casa Nova" to be anointed by women wherever he found himself?

Foot cleaning was a typical hospitable courtesy of the time and place. Jesus complains that Simon had not extended this hospitality to him, and observes favorably that the woman did. I don't see what a serial seducer of another era has to do with it.

The point is that Mary was by profession a famous courtezan in the city of Gadara,

That Pope Gregory "the Great" misidentified Mary Magdalene as a prostitute is at least as well known as Anatole France's short story about Pontius Pilate and Carl Sagan's views on traditional creation myths.

He met Mary whom he exorcised seven demons and, obviously fell in love with each other.

No, it isn't obvious, Ben. You made up a love affair. That's what's obvious.

Eventually, they got married in Cana of Galilee just prior to Jesus' ordination as a Rabbi since he couldn't be one as a single man. (John 2:1-12)

John 2: 2 says Jesus was a guest at that wedding, "Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding." The bridgegroom is a different character in the story (2: 9).

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Talking about an Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi, yes PA, he won't. First of all, an Israeli woman knows she cannot address to a religious Jew

on the street. If someone from outside who does not know the rules, yes, the Rabbi won't talk to her, unless her life is in danger. Even so, he will reach for someone else to help.

Regarding Jesus in the First Century, to eat with tax collectors was one thing to chit-chat with a woman in public something else much different, unless she was his wife, as in the case of Mary.

I am very glad to hear that if Jesus was married, that would change nothing to you with reference to him. IMHO, it would rather enhance his credibility as a serious and loyal Jew that he was.

Ben

I'm glad I don't live in Israel (no offence to any Israelis here). That said, I'll stand by what I said, Jesus was known throughout his ministry for breaking conventional bounds. In fact, the entire Christian movement was known for breaking conventional bounds (eg, women allowed to attend church with men). It is not inconsistent with Jesus' character for him to speak to women, regardless of whatever social restrictions may have existed.

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Ben, I must say that I am slightly surprised that you even believe Jesus existed. In our past interactions, you indicated that you think only a few books of the Old Testament are valid.

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EVIDENCE THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED (1)

Imagine 2000 years ago! Today, the 21st Century, a woman cannot address a religious Jew in public to ask or say anything if she is not his wife. Even being his wife, she must walk a few steps back for the sake of traditional Jewish discretion.

Now, let us read John 11:2. "This Mary whose brother Lazarus and sister was Martha, was the one who anointed Jesus with a very expensive perfume and dried his feet with her hair. (John 12:3) Luke says that Mary even kissed Jesus' feet. If a religious Jew could not even be talked to by a woman in public how could Jesus be anointed and touched by a woman and even kissed if she was not his wife? (Luke 7:38) The only way to refute this assertion is by denying that Jesus was a Jew at all, let alone that he was a religious Jew.

Ben

All this is simply assuming that Christ actually adhere's to all the Jewish customs at that time, which we know in fact that he didn't. It's one of if not the main reason he was crucified.

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Ben, I must say that I am slightly surprised that you even believe Jesus existed. In our past interactions, you indicated that you think only a few books of the Old Testament are valid.

Jesus only appears in the New Testament.

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Jesus only appears in the New Testament.

I am aware of that (although there are those that say that Jesus appeared as "the angel of the Lord").

Perhaps I should have phrased the sentence differently: "...you discount most of the Bible except a few books in the Old Testament."

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Christianity was never an Abrahamic religious belief. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God because Paul fabricated that idea when he founded the Christian religion. (Acts 11:26)

First of all, Christianity spawned from Judaism. Therefore it's Abrahamic.

Second, It claims in Acts that Antioch was the place where they were first called 'Christians' where as before they were known as 'Disciples of Christ.' He in no way started Christianity, since it should be obvious it was started by Jesus Christ himself. However there are a lot of things that should be obvious in this world, now shouldn't there?...

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And? Does that make Judaism any more 'realistic' then Christianity? Nope. Though when you say 'fabricated' parts of a religion, you'll have to realize any religion that just has no proof of any of it's deity could have the same argument put forth.

I do not consider Judaism a religion in terms of what religion is but more akin to a way of life. And to prove one's deity, by default I can if you are unable to prove to me where the universe came from and how. Then, I see that the universe constitutes empirical proof of God's existence as the Creator. (Psalm 19:1) But to explain to you the nature of our Deity, I have no choice

but to admit that I can't. The process to know about God will never end. (Prov. 1:7)

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada

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I do not consider Judaism a religion in terms of what religion is but more akin to a way of life. And to prove one's deity, by default I can if you are unable to prove to me where the universe came from and how. Then, I see that the universe constitutes empirical proof of God's existence as the Creator. (Psalm 19:1) But to explain to you the nature of our Deity, I have no choice

but to admit that I can't. The process to know about God will never end. (Prov. 1:7)

Ben

That's why I've become agnostic, nothing can be proven so who cares? Just enjoy life.

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No, they weren't. Nor was either of them Susanna, nor was either of them Joanna, wife of Chuza, nor was any of those the woman who annointed Jesus at Simon the Pharisee's house.

I think the problem with you is that you don't know what an Orthodox Jew was at that time and still is today. A woman who was not his wife could not even address him in the street; let alone anoint him from the head down to the feet and kiss his feet.

Foot cleaning was a typical hospitable courtesy of the time and place. Jesus complains that Simon had not extended this hospitality to him, and observes favorably that the woman did. I don't see what a serial seducer of another era has to do with it.

That hospital courtesy was not rendered by an outsider and not by a woman who was not his wife.

That Pope Gregory "the Great" misidentified Mary Magdalene as a prostitute is at least as well known as Anatole France's short story about Pontius Pilate and Carl Sagan's views on traditional creation myths.

Myth or not, it is written. Now, we have to deal with contradictions in the NT.

No, it isn't obvious, Ben. You made up a love affair. That's what's obvious.

What is obvious is that Jesus declared that he had come to fulfill all the commandments of the Law down to the letter. He could not have missed the first one which was to get married. (Gen. 1:28) Now, how do you harmonize that with not being married? Contradiction is the word. Besides, Paul himself said that a Bishop or a teacher had to be married. (I Tim. 3:2) Jesus was often addressed to as a Rabbi and a teacher not only by his disciples but also by serious authorities like Nicodemus. (John 3:1,2)

John 2: 2 says Jesus was a guest at that wedding, "Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding." The bridgegroom is a different character in the story (2: 9).

The disciples were invited; Jesus was called to. That's a traditional part of a religeous Jewish wedding: When the groom is called upon to take the bridegroom. The Church or the translator included Jesus as a guest probably to distract the mind of the reader from the reality that Jesus was a married man which constitutes a disservice to him to do so. To be a married man would rather add to his credibility.

Ben

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