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cor2000

Time travel

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I did have an interesting sort of indirect experience once. Many years ago, I was home on leave and saw an old friend of mine. Cathy, (an artsy type) was home as well and we went out and got to talking, she had her ever present sketch book with her and she was always sketching things she saw, well she was showing it to me and I noticed she'd sketched out this really cool looking house on the side of a river bank. Recognized the place immediately as being a real place, but the house didn't exist there So I asked if maybe she had hopes of building a house there one day and she looked at me and laughed saying a house was already there. She'd seen it the other day when she was out and about and thought it was lovely and she sketched it. Then I told I'd been by there just the day before and there was nothing like that there, we didn't argue but we disagreed and I said, "Ok, so let's take a drive." We go out there and nothing is there, the river is there, the high bank is there, but nothing else, no house, the area is all Scrub and Blackjack oaks and broom straw. She stared at it like she couldn't believe it, she started freaking out saying she'd seem this house, right effing there and now it was gone.

After a bit I calmed her down........of course at this time I didn't have a deep an understanding of such things as I do now. Ok, so many years later, I'm married and have kids of my own and the wife, now the ex-wife and I are off to visit an old friend of mine and our route takes us by this old river crossing. Lo and Behold! There is the very house that Cathy had drawn all those years ago. I'm trying to recall the drawing and as best I can recall, it's the house. I pull over abruptly, the wife is wondering if I've lost my mind and I tell her the story. Ok, she's pretty much convinced I've lost my mind at this point. My curiosity over came me and I drove up to the house and knocked on the door and spoke to the owners and this was a bit of a difficult conversation, so rather than go up all freaked out and telling them the truth I just came up and asked them how long the the house had been there and that it looked really great and all that........I don't think I was very convincing. However, the man was very nice and told me they'd only been in the house about a year and that it was a new construction.

Unfortunately, Cathy had died a few years earlier, but I'm convinced she experienced some sort of time shift. I've since heard of other people experiencing the very same thing. So, who knows? Daja Vu might well be something like this.

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You're re-using John Titor's excuse.

If you're going to use another world, then you really haven't time traveled.

How would removing Hitler make a new world? Either you did travel back in time and just your presence there affected causality, or you went to a world that is identical to our past.

Think of it like this. If I go to the past and prevent my parents from getting together and having me. That would not stop me from existing. It would just create a parallel earth where I would not exist. Not affecting me because I am from a separate parallel earth where my parents got together and had me. The world where I exist and where I dont have there own two distinctive past. Hence why say I would be able to experience a New world.

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Think of it like this. If I go to the past and prevent my parents from getting together and having me. That would not stop me from existing. It would just create a parallel earth where I would not exist. Not affecting me because I am from a separate parallel earth where my parents got together and had me. The world where I exist and where I dont have there own two distinctive past. Hence why say I would be able to experience a New world.

If you did really go to the past, just your presence would affect the future. Sounds like you want time travel without the affects of causality. Edited by Rlyeh

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If you did really go to the past, just your presence would affect the future. Sounds like you want time travel without the affects of causality.

And I will agree with you on that, just my presence in the past would affect the future. My guess is that it wouldn't do anything major, I wanna explain more but this dimensional thing but it is hard to cover in words, let alone for one to stomach.

Edited by Dr. Mrdad

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If you did really go to the past, just your presence would affect the future. Sounds like you want time travel without the affects of causality.

And how exactly would his mere presence in the past change anything? Seriously? Yeah, there is that silly theory that says you change stuff by measuring it or observing it. Give me a break, that would mean that any change in the present......where stuff changes a zillion times a second is constantly changing the past as well as the future. If this is the case then there is no past or future only the present and the whole point is moot.

Ok, let take an example. Let's say I got back in time to a point exactly one lottery drawing away from when a giant lottery was won by some old couple in New Jersey. Only I know what the winning number will be for that lottery because........say it with me......I'm from the future. I play the winning number and win. Now, what changes? Very little as far as the world is concerned. Ok, I won a lottery not quite as large as would have been won on the next drawing, the old couple don't win and go on with their lives. So you see the win happened it just happened one drawing earlier because now I have come back with the winning number. The only thing that really changed was the timing of the win......the amount of the win.....and who won. And the rest of the world just kept on going just like it did in the other time line.

Now, did such a thing really rip apart the very fabric of time and cause the universe to fly apart at the seams, well of course not. Small changes that aren't historically changing really don't amount to a pee hole in the snow as far as the world is concerned or the time line. Now, go back and stop Oswald from squeezing off that round into Kennedy and that is a serious change. Vietnam doesn't grow all out of proportion. The cold war doesn't heat up so badly. See what I'm saying? You pop back in time to just check on some things, keep your stuff together, don't start mailing letters to important people telling them their future or about future events and nothing changes.

Yes, it really is that simple.

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And how exactly would his mere presence in the past change anything? Seriously?

Breathing, giving off heat. Although miniscule these changes originate from the future.

But seriously do you think before you respond?

Yeah, there is that silly theory that says you change stuff by measuring it or observing it. Give me a break, that would mean that any change in the present......where stuff changes a zillion times a second is constantly changing the past as well as the future. If this is the case then there is no past or future only the present and the whole point is moot.
The silly theory is the observer effect. Though I'm not sure where you're getting this crap about it changing the past.

Not really going to address your examples, you've demonstrated the concept of causality has gone way over your head. What you deem human history is overshadowed by the physics of the universe. Look up chaos theory if you are so certain tiny changes have no effect.

Edited by Rlyeh

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Ok, let take an example. Let's say I got back in time to a point exactly one lottery drawing away from when a giant lottery was won by some old couple in New Jersey. Only I know what the winning number will be for that lottery because........say it with me......I'm from the future. I play the winning number and win. Now, what changes? Very little as far as the world is concerned. Ok, I won a lottery not quite as large as would have been won on the next drawing, the old couple don't win and go on with their lives. So you see the win happened it just happened one drawing earlier because now I have come back with the winning number. The only thing that really changed was the timing of the win......the amount of the win.....and who won. And the rest of the world just kept on going just like it did in the other time line.

Im gonna use icons to lighten up the mood and remember this is just my opinion as crazy as it does sound! :yes: and it will sound crazy...

Here the thing I've been trying to say, even if you went back in the to the past and played the lottery number.... here it is.... You still would not experience it in your reality when you go back into the future.... You would have to give the winning ticket....to your other self... in that parallel past earth.... and he would experience the wealth .... You still would be broke when you go back to the future ....because you ....came from a time line in a parallel future reality... where you did not win the lottery :no: .... You came from a parallel earth where the jersey couple won ..... If you went back to the past...., there would still be another you there in that past.... because you where still alive at that time point .... The future you... can interact with the past you ....., but once that happens....you .... create a new reality... where it will no longer be your past.... Unless... you ... coming from the future... to the past.... already had that experience in the past.... of meeting himself from the future..... try to stomach that one ....You... cant change you ... from past... because that wouldnt be your past :no: ...

Though I will enlighten you on two ways you could be rich by time traveling . The first option would be for you... to go back into the past.. where you ... didnt win the lottery ... and you.......being you ... from the future.. can go back before the lottery pick was played.... in the parallel past earth... strap up :gun: ... in the parallel past..... where you didn't win or lose yet.... and you :gun: can go find..... your past parallel self .... that is present in that reality... yup .... and upon meeting your parallel past self :st / :st .in the parallel past......You :gun:.... being from future...would have to kill your past parallel self.. in that past parallel past earth... where you didnt win or lose the lottery yet..... Yup... You .. can then stay and live there ... happily .... in that parallel earth.... and never go back :whistle: ...to that parallel future earth where ...you (didnt win :td: ) ...... And you...Now... Staying in that parallel earth...... Since it is no longer your past... because you.. have tampered with it... (the slightest change, is a total change. Which therefor renders it no longer being the same past at all.. It makes new reality.. a new mass... a new form)...you could then... experience another world ( parallel reality earth).. where you ... still being a parallel future self... in a new parallel reality.... which is no longer your past (because you were not killed by another you :gun:.. from a parallel future earth for a lottery ticket)... You ( the future parallel non lottery winner) can now win \$ :tsu:$/ the lottery in the "new" parallel "past" earth where your past parallel self didn't win or lose yet...... a There is a universe where you can win ...

The second option would be for you to time travel to the future and get winning numbers from a future date, come back at the same exact point where you left. Play the number when the time comes and enjoy the riches

Heres another mind twister... YOU READY GUYS!! You being the past self ....could go into the future.... and interact with yourself from the future :st/ :st ... still being the past self.......and you can go back to the your original timeline .... and as your living your life in the present... which would be the future... and here it is..... you could possibly meet yourself .... from the past ...that went to the future(in the past) ...to meet you ... in the present...... You would experience past self meeting future self .... and in the future.... the future self would be meeting the past self ...

.. crazy.. maybe I am. so to protect my self from the butchers of U_M.. I will say this just my opinion!!! :whistle:

The concept of creation is infinite, as well as the parallel realities and dimensions that exist in it.. Our science is based on the... (here it goes)...The ideas of certain individuals and their experiences with finite formations in their conscious experience of a finite existence ...in a infinite reality..... These concepts that our collective human minds have come up with to understand the infinite experience ...as well gain knowledge of the.finite and infinite forms is a necessary self imposed limitation in our society.... This conceptual limitation we call science is needed in order to gain knowledge and understandings of his thing we call the universe. But we have to see that our concepts and understanding of science will change. So we shouldn't forcibly accept the old ideas of science as true and a unchangeable. Science of the past proved the earth was flat, well look it that concept now... Time is our creation. A necessary social convention we have created. There couldn't be a society with out it. But because of this social convention we all experience time and reality differently . Time traveling would not be based on our clocks which we use to tell time because they are inaccurate, they only follow a liner fashion and time( by the clock) is different location and society.

Edited by Dr. Mrdad
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That's the most spread-out emoticons I've seen in a single post!

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Oh, and just for the heck of it...

I don't remember the specific scientific paper, but, it has been proven that all of our human senses have a delay before we are concious of the "sense"

Bluntly, everything we see is actually slightly in the past, even our refelection in a mirror, our spouse right in front of us, cars passing by us, etc...

I know it's "nerdy" but thought I would pass that along anyway.

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e machine doesn't represent anything new. The matter that makes up you time machine is still present in another form.........just as you are.

Yes, but the atoms and molecules that make up you and your time machine when you enter the Past are busy doing something else in that Past. When you arrive, if those atoms don't instantly leave what they are doing and become you and your ship, you are introducing extra energy into the universe.

I am familiar with the law of conservation of energy.

I think time travel into the past is fundamentally prohibited by the laws governing the structure of the physical universe, for obvious paradoxical reasons.

Time traveling into the future is also prohibited in the same way. Traveling into the future would create the same kinds of paradoxes as traveling into the past. I say this because the Future and the Past are not different from each other time-wise. The year 1800 is our Past, but for someone living in the year 1750, the year 1800 is the Future.

If we go back in time to the year 1800 and change some event, from the perspective of that person in 1750, we have traveled into the future. Past and Future are the same in the time dimension in this way.

Similarly, if you travel 10 years into the Past and meet your past self, from your past self's perspective, you are a traveler from the Future. From his perspective a future that hasn't happened yet, but his future has already happened.

I think this scenario is universal in Time. In other words, our Present is only a moment in the total Time continuum. The Past has already happened and the Future has already happened. Our Present is a moment somewhere within this continuum.

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the past..Im gonna use icons to lighten up the mood and remember this is just my opinion as crazy as it does sound! :yes: and it will sound crazy...

Here the thing I've been trying to say, even if you went back in the to the past and played the lottery number.... here it is.... You still would not experience it in your reality when you go back into the future.... You would have to give the winning ticket....to your other self... in that parallel past earth.... and he would experience the wealth .... You still would be broke when you go back to the future ....because you ....came from a time line in a parallel future reality... where you did not win the lottery :no: .... You came from a parallel earth where the jersey couple won ..... If you went back to the past...., there would still be another you there in that past.... because you where still alive at that time point .... The future you... can interact with the past you ....., but once that happens....you .... create a new reality... where it will no longer be your past.... Unless... you ... coming from the future... to.. already had that experience in the past.... of meeting himself from the future..... try to stomach that one ....You... cant change you ... from past... because that wouldnt be your past :no: ...

Actually, I'm impressed. You've obviously thought a great deal about this........which is why it actually pains me to do this, but let me show you how to beat that paradox.

You got back and win the previous lottery, once you buy the ticket, you put it in your pocket. You then return to the present......that is, your present. You step out of the time machine, you reach in your pocket......Lo and behold.......you're now holding the ticket that won from the lottery from the lottery before last. You then make plans, get investment advice, planning for your future so that you never have to do anything that you don't want to do again. However, keep in mind that you have six months from the date on the ticket to claim your prize. You then enjoy life.

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Yes, but the atoms and molecules that make up you and your time machine when you enter the Past are busy doing something else in that Past. When you arrive, if those atoms don't instantly leave what they are doing and become you and your ship, you are introducing extra energy into the universe.

I am familiar with the law of conservation of energy.

I think time travel into the past is fundamentally prohibited by the laws governing the structure of the physical universe, for obvious paradoxical reasons.

Time traveling into the future is also prohibited in the same way. Traveling into the future would create the same kinds of paradoxes as traveling into the past. I say this because the Future and the Past are not different from each other time-wise. The year 1800 is our Past, but for someone living in the year 1750, the year 1800 is the Future.

If we go back in time to the year 1800 and change some event, from the perspective of that person in 1750, we have traveled into the future. Past and Future are the same in the time dimension in this way.

Similarly, if you travel 10 years into the Past and meet your past self, from your past self's perspective, you are a traveler from the Future. From his perspective a future that hasn't happened yet, but his future has already happened.

I think this scenario is universal in Time. In other words, our Present is only a moment in the total Time continuum. The Past has already happened and the Future has already happened. Our Present is a moment somewhere within this continuum.

That only works if the time line is so sensative that time travel is too dangerous to attempt. I seriously doubt that it's that sensative. Let's face it, if that's the case and you return to a time when you already exist then one of you is going to cancel the other out......making it a one way and very short trip.

How has the future already happened when it's still in the future?

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Oh, and just for the heck of it...

I don't remember the specific scientific paper, but, it has been proven that all of our human senses have a delay before we are concious of the "sense"

Bluntly, everything we see is actually slightly in the past, even our refelection in a mirror, our spouse right in front of us, cars passing by us, etc...

I know it's "nerdy" but thought I would pass that along anyway.

That's just persecptive lag time, sort of like making a radio call from Mars to Earth.......it takes fifteen minutes to give to us at light speed. We saw this when all the Mars landers got to Mars. Remember? The guy at JPL was saying, "Whatever has happened has already happend so all we can do is watch and see how it came out." We were watching the present via a time delay.....in the future.

What? :unsure2:

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Actually, I'm impressed. You've obviously thought a great deal about this........which is why it actually pains me to do this, but let me show you how to beat that paradox.

You got back and win the previous lottery, once you buy the ticket, you put it in your pocket. You then return to the present......that is, your present. You step out of the time machine, you reach in your pocket......Lo and behold.......you're now holding the ticket that won from the lottery from the lottery before last. You then make plans, get investment advice, planning for your future so that you never have to do anything that you don't want to do again. However, keep in mind that you have six months from the date on the ticket to claim your prize. You then enjoy life.

Hey, I actually like this one. I never thought about it in this fashion. Another way of getting rich by time traveling :tu:

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Right. We never actually watch the "present", even right in front of us, but only the "past", though that past may only be nano-milliseconds "before"

In astronomy, that "past" that we perceive as "present" is minutes(our sun), thousands or billions of years ago for other stuff.

Strange, but very much true.

Edited by pallidin

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How has the future already happened when it's still in the future?

If the future hasn't already happened, how do you explain,

Similarly, if you travel 10 years into the Past and meet your past self, from your past self's perspective, you are a traveler from the Future. From his perspective his future that hasn't happened yet, but his future has already happened.
(I quote myself from my previous post)

We consider the future as a nebulous set of possibilities not yet realized, but from the quoted statement above, this concept may or may not be true. How do we know the future does not already exist? We consider the past as not existing, but as the past has happened, how can the Past disappear from reality?

The Past is only non-existent from our perspective of the Present moment. If the Past and the Future do not exist, how can the Present exist?

Edited by StarMountainKid

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Crapola!!!

Sorry SMK, I had this great reply all typed out and everything then the Lords of the internet ate the darn thing. Sorry, I'm a little bummed by that right this red hot minute, but I will reply again.

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Crapola!!!

Sorry SMK, I had this great reply all typed out and everything then the Lords of the internet ate the darn thing. Sorry, I'm a little bummed by that right this red hot minute, but I will reply again.

That is why I type long posts in word...and then copy them...just sayin'...yeah...

But what I was really going to say is that, time doesn't exist. Therefore traversing back and forth in time is...on one level interesting...but on another level...irrelevant. Time is a measurement. Everything happens now...that illusive, never able to define source of the constant eternal present. Yesterday doesn't exist. Tomorrow doesn't exist. The present doesn't exist either, because by the time your brain acknowledges the present...it is already past...and so...the great adventure is always in the moment at hand...always.

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I actually, normally do that however this forum lulled me into a false sense of security and then hammered me like a tent peg into the ground.

C'est La Vive, if that's the worst that happens to me then I'll be fine

Now I need to take a shower and some Tylenol......ouch, my head hurts.

* walks to shower.....rubs head on the way*

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But what I was really going to say is that, time doesn't exist. Therefore traversing back and forth in time is...on one level interesting...but on another level...irrelevant. Time is a measurement. Everything happens now...that illusive, never able to define source of the constant eternal present. Yesterday doesn't exist. Tomorrow doesn't exist. The present doesn't exist either, because by the time your brain acknowledges the present...it is already past...and so...the great adventure is always in the moment at hand...always

My reply would be, the time interval of the present does exist. I think the source of "the eternal present" are the intervals of Planck time, like physical snapshots of space-time. This interval of space-time is so short we cannot notice it. These Planck time intervals or snapshots are the existences of the physical universe. The past intervals must always exist, space and time being inseparable.

In other words, can all space at one instant of time become non-existent when the next instant of the present time occurs? I don't see how the space and time present moment past, if I can put it that way, can just disappear from existence.

Space is not nothing, it is a physical construct. This physical space that exists in the present moment exists, and in the next moment it must still exist, and in the next moment it still exists. All these existences physically exist in their own moments of time, and the reality of their physicality cannot just vanish.

What is physically real 'now' remains real as what we call the past, but 'the past' is just a human concept derived from our insulation from all these still existing moments, due to the restriction of our consciousness from interacting with them.

The future is the same deal. Without the existence of a physical space-time 'future', our present could not exist, as the next present moment could have no reality if a 'future' reality does not already exist to replace it. Reality is all space-time intervals already existing 'past' and 'future'.

The Past space-time intervals have happened and are always happening in their frozen moments, and in the same sense the Future has happened and is always happening in its frozen moments. I think this is an accepted scenario of physics.

Anyway it's also my view of this subject. :) I could be wrong, of course. It seems to me the more counter intuitive an explanation of this weird universe is, the more probable its truth.

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My reply would be, the time interval of the present does exist. I think the source of "the eternal present" are the intervals of Planck time, like physical snapshots of space-time. This interval of space-time is so short we cannot notice it. These Planck time intervals or snapshots are the existences of the physical universe. The past intervals must always exist, space and time being inseparable.

In other words, can all space at one instant of time become non-existent when the next instant of the present time occurs? I don't see how the space and time present moment past, if I can put it that way, can just disappear from existence.

Space is not nothing, it is a physical construct. This physical space that exists in the present moment exists, and in the next moment it must still exist, and in the next moment it still exists. All these existences physically exist in their own moments of time, and the reality of their physicality cannot just vanish.

What is physically real 'now' remains real as what we call the past, but 'the past' is just a human concept derived from our insulation from all these still existing moments, due to the restriction of our consciousness from interacting with them.

The future is the same deal. Without the existence of a physical space-time 'future', our present could not exist, as the next present moment could have no reality if a 'future' reality does not already exist to replace it. Reality is all space-time intervals already existing 'past' and 'future'.

The Past space-time intervals have happened and are always happening in their frozen moments, and in the same sense the Future has happened and is always happening in its frozen moments. I think this is an accepted scenario of physics.

Anyway it's also my view of this subject. :) I could be wrong, of course. It seems to me the more counter intuitive an explanation of this weird universe is, the more probable its truth.

You are wrong, of course! :) But not about everything. Space is energy. 'read my sig' et al ....Everything happens and everything changes...the space that was between the stars yesterday is not the same space that is between the stars today...nor are the stars the same stars...nothing stays the same...everything changes constantly and the only reality that exists is that constant change. So, you want to travel back in time to the day before 9/11 and warn everyone...there is no 9/11 to go back to...the reality is the constant change...there is no 9/11...it transformed, re-manifested into something else and will never exist again...it isn't still existing in space and time somewhere...it changed. The change is constant. Time is a measurement of change, nothing more.

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Yes, but the atoms and molecules that make up you and your time machine when you enter the Past are busy doing something else in that Past. When you arrive, if those atoms don't instantly leave what they are doing and become you and your ship, you are introducing extra energy into the universe.

I am familiar with the law of conservation of energy.

I think time travel into the past is fundamentally prohibited by the laws governing the structure of the physical universe, for obvious paradoxical reasons.

Time traveling into the future is also prohibited in the same way. Traveling into the future would create the same kinds of paradoxes as traveling into the past. I say this because the Future and the Past are not different from each other time-wise. The year 1800 is our Past, but for someone living in the year 1750, the year 1800 is the Future.

If we go back in time to the year 1800 and change some event, from the perspective of that person in 1750, we have traveled into the future. Past and Future are the same in the time dimension in this way.

Similarly, if you travel 10 years into the Past and meet your past self, from your past self's perspective, you are a traveler from the Future. From his perspective a future that hasn't happened yet, but his future has already happened.

I think this scenario is universal in Time. In other words, our Present is only a moment in the total Time continuum. The Past has already happened and the Future has already happened. Our Present is a moment somewhere within this continuum.

well i am certainly no expert, but just for fun - heres another explanation! The one of the alleged John Titor...(I know its not real but he was good at making plausible suggestions)

"Dear Art,

I had to fax when I heard other time travelers calling in from any time past the year 2500 AD. Please let me explain.

Time travel was invented in 2034 off shoots of certain successful fusion reactor research allowed scientists at CERN to produce the worlds first contained singularity engine.

The basic design involves rotating singularities inside a magnetic feild. By altering the speed and direction of rotation you can travel both forward and backward in time.

Time itself can be understood in terms of connected lines. When you go back in time you travel on your original time line when you turn the singularity engine off a new time line is created due to the fact that you and your time machine are now there.

In other words a new universe is created. To get back to your original line you must travel a split second farther back and immediately throw the engine into forward without turning it off.

Some interesting outcomes of this are: You meet yourself. I have done it often. Even taken a younger version of myself along for a few rides before returning myself to the new timeline and going back to mine. You can alter history in the new universe that you have just created. Most of the time the changes are subtle. The oldest one was a sky scraper that don't exist in New York. Interestingly when you travel in time you must compensate for the orbit of the Earth since the time machine doesn't move you have to adjust the engine so you remain on the planet when you turn it off"

see:

http://timetravelinstitute.com/threads/john-titors-faxes-to-art-bell-transcript-in-the-90s-what-do-you-think-as-a-2012-viewer.7792/

.

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Time is a measurement of change, nothing more.

If we film a ball rolling on a table, and reverse the film, we cannot tell the reversed film from the forwarded film. If we film an egg drop from a table and splater on the floor, and reverse that film, we will know that the film has been reversed.

From the whole egg to the splattered egg is change, but the splattered egg to the whole egg is change also. What determines the allowed change from the disallowed change in this example? I think what regulates change in this way is the nature of our consciousness as it observes change from past to future.

The laws of physics allow change to happen, but in those laws there is no preferred direction that changes can occur. If we film elementary particles colliding and bouncing off each other, if we reverse the film, all the laws that determine the results of the event remain the same. I think we can infer from this that change in reverse is just as real as change in the forward direction. Our consciousness preferrs the forward direction, and that's what we observe.

If the reverse change is just as real as the forward change, then there must exist a past for this reverse change to occur in. If change exists in the forward direction, there must be a future for this forward change to occur in.

How do we know this everlasting, changing moment we are aware of is the true reality? We consider it true because of the nature of our consciousness. Our consciousness determines for itself the direction of change, but change itself has no preferred direction.

If it were otherwise we would be eternally confused as to what is happening. :) I just think our comprehension and what appears to us to be true and real is determined by the nature of our llimited consciousness. What lies external to our consciousness? The nature of actual existence I think is very different than what we percieve it to be.

Edited by StarMountainKid
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You can reverse the film all day long. In Reality, neither the ball, nor the egg is ever going to reverse itself. You are confusing Movies with Reality, which, unfortunately seems to be the case with far too many people.

The laws of physics allow change to happen, but in those laws there is no preferred direction that changes can occur.

The laws of physics don't allow change to happen. Change happens, the laws of physics are an attempt to illustrate that change occurs naturally but in a set of 'constants'...again...a measurement.

You are really trying to make this all complicated, when it really isn't.

Edited by joc

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Wow Joc........that's too weird even for me to entertain.

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