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cor2000

Time travel

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Um, sorry but you're wrong on this one. Gravity warping space-time is one of the features of general relativity and has been pretty thoroughly backed up with evidence, black holes being a good example.

Well.....I did mispell empirical. Far be it from me to argue with Emma_Acid about anything :) ....however; I will just say two things...quoting Elton John: ...and all the science, I don't understand...

...and...

Atomic Theory was pretty well 'proven' by Nuclear Explosions, I just don't see any real 'proof' of Warping Space/Time...it seems to be more a case of Theory explaining Theory....but for the record...I will just go with Elton's Rocket Man.... :-*

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Joc, before they even built the bomb or tried to make Plutonium they already knew the bomb would go boom.

Oddly enough, we knew in theory we could go to the moon in the 19th century, trouble was we didn't have the technology to do it.

You need to catch up on the current stuff..........because trying to catch you up is dragging down the thread from those of us in the know,

:tu:

Edited by keninsc

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Joc, before they even built the bomb or tried to make Plutonium they already knew the bomb would go boom.

Oddly enough, we knew in theory we could go to the moon in the 19th century, trouble was we didn't have the technology to do it.

You need to catch up on the current stuff..........because trying to catch you up is dragging down the thread from those of us in the know,

:tu:

What I am saying is that the 'boom' of the first Nuclear Explosion was Emirical Proof that the theory was correct. I don't need to be caught up. I just don't buy the whole Warped Space/Time thing.

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What I am saying is that the 'boom' of the first Nuclear Explosion was Emirical Proof that the theory was correct. I don't need to be caught up. I just don't buy the whole Warped Space/Time thing.

Wow, and that's really sad.

:whistle:

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I've always had issues with time travel for a reason that may be simply explained...

IF an individual managed to go back even five minutes in time...what would actually be there? I (and everyone/everything else) has moved forward through time. Even the smallest grain of sand has "moved" forward in time. So, what would be "five minutes ago"?

Unless the idea is that there are an infinite number of "me" for every second (or less) of time that has passed then wouldn't there be nothing to travel back to?

Let me know if this isn't clear.

Nibs

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Wow, and that's really sad.

:whistle:

Sad? I wouldn't go that far...but you know, I could be wrong, like I said...all the science I don't understand. But guess what...all the science...THEY don't really understand either.

I will just say this: all anyone has done is say I am wrong...and quoted things like Black Holes prove it... until I see some proof that makes sense to me...I don't buy it...you call that sad...I call that...thought process.

Edit:

...and much of thought process = research

...this makes sense to me...and so I will default to 'I could be wrong'...

There was one exception to all the success of Newton's theory. For years before Einstein wrote down his equations, astronomers had known that the details of Mercury's orbit didn't perfectly match Newton's predictions. The difference was small, but clearly present. Mercury is the planet closest to the Sun. This combines a large mass (the Sun's) with small distances, which is one situation where Einstein's equations are not the same as Newton's. The very first thing Einstein did after discovering his equations was to solve them for the orbit of Mercury. He picked out the detail that Newton's theory couldn't account for, and saw that his own theory predicted it correctly. This was the first trial, and first success of Einstein's theory. He had shown that Newton was very nearly right much of the time, but wrong in the most extreme cases.

LINK

Edited by joc

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Mine was a serious question - those who support time travel...can you explain this to me?

Nibs

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Unless the idea is that there are an infinite number of "me" for every second (or less) of time that has passed then wouldn't there be nothing to travel back to?

I think there are, not an infinite number, but lots of 'you's, each in every interval of time that has passed and will pass, each 'frozen' in their moment of spacetime. I know this sounds odd and improbable.

Eternalism is a philosophical approach to the ontological nature of time, which takes the view that all points in time are equally "real", as opposed to the presentist idea that only the present is real.[1] Modern advocates often take inspiration from the way time is modeled as a dimension in the theory of relativity, giving time a similar ontology to that of space . This would mean that time is just another dimension, that future events are "already there", and that there is no objective flow of time. It is sometimes referred to as the "block time" or "block universe" theory due to its description of space-time as an unchanging four-dimensional "block",[2] as opposed to the view of the world as a three-dimensional space modulated by the passage of time.

(edited by me for clarity)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time)

This appeals to me because it has a basis in accepted scientific theory, and because I like it, I suppose. :) I think our feeling of the passing of time is psychological or consciousness based. I don't know how this happens, but our consciousness is odd and mysterious, as well, and is an aspect of the physics of the construction of the universe as is space and time and everything else.

If all this is true, maybe a time travel machine would be our consciousness itself. Certain related psychic phenomena may be our consciousness traveling to the past or future by mistake. Sort of an error in the usual forward in time movement of our conscious awareness.

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I've always had issues with time travel for a reason that may be simply explained...

IF an individual managed to go back even five minutes in time...what would actually be there? I (and everyone/everything else) has moved forward through time. Even the smallest grain of sand has "moved" forward in time. So, what would be "five minutes ago"?

Unless the idea is that there are an infinite number of "me" for every second (or less) of time that has passed then wouldn't there be nothing to travel back to?

Let me know if this isn't clear.

Nibs

More importantly, where would you be? We're hurtling through the universe at unimaginable speeds. If I went back in time 5 minutes to the same point in space, I wouldn't be on earth anymore.

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More importantly, where would you be? We're hurtling through the universe at unimaginable speeds. If I went back in time 5 minutes to the same point in space, I wouldn't be on earth anymore.

Yup. Nothing there other than the langoliers.

Nibs

Edited by HerNibs
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I've always had issues with time travel for a reason that may be simply explained...

IF an individual managed to go back even five minutes in time...what would actually be there? I (and everyone/everything else) has moved forward through time. Even the smallest grain of sand has "moved" forward in time. So, what would be "five minutes ago"?

Unless the idea is that there are an infinite number of "me" for every second (or less) of time that has passed then wouldn't there be nothing to travel back to?

Let me know if this isn't clear.

Nibs

Ok Nibs.......I see why you have trouble with time travel or the concept of time travel now.

^_^

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Ok Nibs.......I see why you have trouble with time travel or the concept of time travel now.

^_^

so what would be the answer?

Nibs

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so what would be the answer?

Nibs

We don't have one.

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I need to try again posting a link or the video I wanted to share....

Edited by NiteMarcher

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I'm curious what your reasoning is on that? To the past would be more likely since it's already happened, it's the future that hasn't happened yet. How can you go to a place that doesn't exist yet?

Just curious.

Special theory of relativity states that if we could travel in the speed of light © or very near to it (which is physically impossible), time would pass slow to us relative to someone who isn't travelling at similar speed or is stationary at earth. Hypothetically, when one twin comes back after journeying through space at speed c, he would see time being passed on earth much more slowly, and as such his other half would be aged less than him. This is considered to be some form of travelling to the future, though I am not sure if I can call it that.

Currently there's no model in physics that says anything about time travel to the past.

I am probably very wrong though.

These are all hypothetical of course. I don’t think we can discuss much about time travel unless we get to understand the concept of time better.

Edited by Blood_Sacrifice

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I've always had issues with time travel for a reason that may be simply explained...

IF an individual managed to go back even five minutes in time...what would actually be there? I (and everyone/everything else) has moved forward through time. Even the smallest grain of sand has "moved" forward in time. So, what would be "five minutes ago"?

Unless the idea is that there are an infinite number of "me" for every second (or less) of time that has passed then wouldn't there be nothing to travel back to?

Let me know if this isn't clear.

Nibs

If there are parallel universes, you would come back to that particular point in space-time, from where another universe would branch off. Let's say space-time went in the direction A -> B -> C -> D. You go back to point B and which in turns lead to E and then F and so on (causing a new timeline with new sets of circumstance).

Or else, you could become a third person who would be able to witness himsef in the "past" moment where you have gone.

Those are really the only two options I can see. Erm....I don't understand really. :unsure2:

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If there are parallel universes, you would come back to that particular point in space-time, from where another universe would branch off. Let's say space-time went in the direction A -> B -> C -> D. You go back to point B and which in turns lead to E and then F and so on (causing a new timeline with new sets of circumstance).

Or else, you could become a third person who would be able to witness himsef in the "past" moment where you have gone.

Those are really the only two options I can see. Erm....I don't understand really. :unsure2:

:) Hurts the noggin doesn't it?

BUT according to your idea an individual couldn't go back into their own (original) time line and change the future. It would change the future of E or F.

So NOW "Back to the Future" is nothing but plot holes.

Nibs

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That the thing with time travel, it's all speculation. There's theories that say the timeline is a fragile as a frozen spider's web and others that think it's much more robust. Could you go back and change the past significantly? Sure, but in so doing you change what the past became, which is the present, which is where we all live.

Much like the lottery scenario I mention before, in that case the change is really very small......relatively speaking (please forgive the Albert pun, I can't help myself). However, go back and give Hitler the technology to make the A-bomb first, or Stalin? That's an even scarier thought really. Kill Hitler during WWI, Kill Stalin. My guess is many of these things we experienced might well have happened but under different people. Personally, I think WWI was inevitable, however WWII might not have happened had Hitler not come to power, but who can say really. I would submit that no one can know for sure how an alternate future might play out, so it's always going to be best to not allow any changes.

Now, having said that, I see no reason that a traveler couldn't go back and simply observe. Yeah, they'd have to make sure they didn't mess up the event, but simply observing? I don't see the problem.

Edited by keninsc
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That the thing with time travel, it's all speculation. There's theories that say the timeline is a fragile as a frozen spider's web and others that think it's much more robust. Could you go back and change the past significantly? Sure, but in so doing you change what the past became, which is the present, which is where we all live.

Much like the lottery scenario I mention before, in that case the change is really very small......relatively speaking (please forgive the Albert pun, I can't help myself). However, go back and give Hitler the technology to make the A-bomb first, or Stalin? That's an even scarier thought really. Kill Hitler during WWI, Kill Stalin. My guess is many of these things we experienced might well have happened but under different people. Personally, I think WWI was inevitable, however WWII might not have happened had Hitler not come to power, but who can say really. I would submit that no one can know for sure how an alternate future might play out, so it's always going to be best to not allow any changes.

Now, having said that, I see no reason that a traveler couldn't go back and simply observe. Yeah, they'd have to make sure they didn't mess up the event, but simply observing? I don't see the problem.

Well, right there is my confusion. :) Observe WHAT? Everything that was "there" at a particular point in time has moved forward in time/space.

There is no "there" to go to and nothing to observe unless I'm leaving an infinite number of Xerox copies of myself behind me every nanosecond.

Nibs

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There is no "there" to go to and nothing to observe unless I'm leaving an infinite number of Xerox copies of myself behind me every nanosecond.

I think you are, but this seems to be a minority view of one.

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You know Nibs, if you aren't willing to explore a different idea then it's all going to remain the same for you.

That's not intended to be a dig, put down or bashing, although it could sound like it. I'm just saying you're completely locked into this whole the past doesn't exist and the future is the same thing, and please keep in mind that it's a perfectly legitimate position to hold since the subject is one that only exists in theory.......and some movies.

However, if you're going to hold a singleness of mind then the discussions aren't going to really take off.

Just saying.

:yes:

Edited by keninsc

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You know Nibs, if you are willing to explore a different idea then it's all going to remain the same for you.

That's not intended to be a dig, put down or bashing, although it could sound like it. I'm just saying you're completely locked into this whole the past doesn't exist and the future is the same thing, and please keep in mind that it's a perfectly legitimate position to hold since the subject is one that only exists in theory.......and some movies.

However, if you're going to hold a singleness of mind then the discussions aren't going to really take off.

Just saying.

:yes:

Not being singleminded at all. (IMO) Just a simple logistical question.

Time travel to where and what would be there?

I think this would have to be answered prior to any one actually attempting to time travel.

Basically the answer would be "Step 1". Most people discussing time travel seem to head right to "Step 3"

Nibs

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To put it another way -

If I'm going to travel to London I'm going to be sure that London actually exists before I leave.

How I get there and what I do when I arrive would be the next steps.

Nibs

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I completely get what you're saying, but what is this London? Place you speak of, I'm at a complete loss.

:unsure2:

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