Timothy Posted January 3, 2013 #26 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I respect your post. I agree and I understand where you're coming from. It wasn't harsh. You feel strongly about the subject. But just understand, that there are a majority who won't think the same. I would hope it's a minority. But a lot of people believe a lot of illogical stuff. Unfortunate really... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted January 3, 2013 #27 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I already kind of did disagree because shapeshifting doesnt have to only mean physically shifting. Shapeshifting can also come under changing your shape in astral/dreamtime. So shapeshifting may fly in the face of science/biology but its a fact that you can actually shapeshift. You just have to shift in a place where it allows you too. Which is why I've always thought of the stories of shapeshifting/werewolves as being misunderstood. So anotherwords the werewolf may very well be real but not in the way that people have learned from hollywood. Hmmmm the problem is that astral shapeshifting is just as crazy and illogical as werewolf shapeshifting... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangepeaceful79 Posted January 3, 2013 #28 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I already kind of did disagree because shapeshifting doesnt have to only mean physically shifting. Shapeshifting can also come under changing your shape in astral/dreamtime. So shapeshifting may fly in the face of science/biology but its a fact that you can actually shapeshift. You just have to shift in a place where it allows you too. Which is why I've always thought of the stories of shapeshifting/werewolves as being misunderstood. So anotherwords the werewolf may very well be real but not in the way that people have learned from hollywood. That makes no sense whatsoever. If that is true then if I dream that I'm walking through lollipop land and my body is made of marshmallows then it is real. Dreams are dreams, reality is reality. If you want to be a werewolf in dreamland - whatever. We are talking about flesh and blood werewolves and how they are make-believe. Go be Sergeant Pepper and lead the Lonely Hearts Club Band in dreamtime for all I care...your dreams are dreams. They happen in your brain and are a totally different discussion than we are having here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikeman25 Posted January 3, 2013 #29 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I've been reading up on this and there are several different versions of werewolves or versions of lycanthropy throughout history . The astral werewolf thing sounds stupid to me , But from what I've read the most common methods ranged from doing certain rituals or rubbing on a salve Or a wolf girdle etc... Or involving a curse . As far as them actually existing eh who knows .. In my opinion if there weren't something to this the stories and legends would have died out centuries ago . But this is one of those things that can never be proven either way , If anyone came out and claimed to be a werewolf , Not that they would - They would be locked up in the nuthouse. Who knows . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelInsanity Posted January 3, 2013 #30 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I would hope it's a minority. But a lot of people believe a lot of illogical stuff. Unfortunate really... I meant minority. I typed in the wrong word. I know alot of people believe in illogical stuff, and alot of people don't. Then again, look at religion. xD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelInsanity Posted January 3, 2013 #31 Share Posted January 3, 2013 *deleted because in retrospect my post was off-topic and inflammatory* my bad. I read the post already. I don't know what it is, but I have a feeling you REALLY don't like me. I meant minority. Typed in the wrong word and didn't bother to check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 3, 2013 #32 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Hmmmm the problem is that astral shapeshifting is just as crazy and illogical as werewolf shapeshifting... Why so? Why is it illogical/crazy to shapeshift while in astral/ldreamtime? That makes no sense whatsoever. If that is true then if I dream that I'm walking through lollipop land and my body is made of marshmallows then it is real. Dreams are dreams, reality is reality. If you want to be a werewolf in dreamland - whatever. We are talking about flesh and blood werewolves and how they are make-believe. Go be Sergeant Pepper and lead the Lonely Hearts Club Band in dreamtime for all I care...your dreams are dreams. They happen in your brain and are a totally different discussion than we are having here. The OP was talking about lycans and you were talking about shapeshifting. This topic is in the Myths and Legends section of the forum.. which means I believe that the myths and legends of shapeshifting(werewolves for example)have been based on the only logical way this type of shapeshifting is possible. And its that simple. So if someone in the past dreamt they had shapeshifted into a wolf and told anyone, they probably wouldve been called a witch or a 'werewolf'. And thats how I look at it. And not all dreams are just dreams.. I believe in shared dreaming and precog dreaming for good reasons. So they dont always seem to be just in your own mind. Edited January 3, 2013 by Kazahel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted January 3, 2013 #33 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Why so? Why is it illogical/crazy to shapeshift while in astral/ldreamtime? Can you define what you mean by 'astral/dreamtime' so I can make sure we're on the right page first please!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 3, 2013 #34 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Can you define what you mean by 'astral/dreamtime' so I can make sure we're on the right page first please!! Lucid dreaming/normal dreaming/astral travelling. I use the word dreamtime as in the experiences that are of a dream like nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted January 3, 2013 #35 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Lucid dreaming/normal dreaming/astral travelling. I use the word dreamtime as in the experiences that are of a dream like nature. Lucid dreaming/normal dreaming is normal. 'dreamtime' as in something that feels dreamlike is normal. Astral traveling is the thing I think is illogical. Should be easy to prove if it were real but it has no basis and will never be proven... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 3, 2013 #36 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Lucid dreaming/normal dreaming is normal. 'dreamtime' as in something that feels dreamlike is normal. Astral traveling is the thing I think is illogical. Should be easy to prove if it were real but it has no basis and will never be proven... Yeah I'm on the fence with words like astral and OBE. I believe that there feels a difference but I dont know if that means there is actually a difference to lucid dreaming. No decent/recent studies have been done that I am aware of. But I do believe there are dream experiences that are not just from your subsconscious. Anyway so I think its logical to assume that the myths and legends of shapeshifting have come about from the only place where we know its possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 3, 2013 #37 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Look at my response to Wearer of Hats... I saw it. There is a marked difference between "idea" and "theory" in scientific terms. What you are discussing is an idea or a dream. The scientific theory KNOWS what the caloric burn is to mend a broken bone and it isn't much of a stretch to figure out that a human body cannot generate or tolerate what it takes to break most of its bones, destroy and rebuild muscle and remend itself. You're discussing magical "what ifs". Many of us are responding with "science says no". Nibs 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangepeaceful79 Posted January 3, 2013 #38 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I read the post already. I don't know what it is, but I have a feeling you REALLY don't like me. I meant minority. Typed in the wrong word and didn't bother to check it. Naw - I don't even know you. I can't think of hardly anyone on this site I dislike. I think the way you put several of your arguments just got me irritated because its the same kind of thing we debate all the time around here - what is fact and what is belief/opinion. My irritation is mine though, and I need to own it and not let it bleed through into my postings. Which is why i deleted my post....however not quick enough that someone didn't already quote it. I do apologize for sending off the negative vibes...certainly not what this site should be about at all. I'm a stupid ass sometimes, but I am usually smart enough to realize when I've crossed the line. Again, please accept my apologies for the tone (not the content) of my past few posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 3, 2013 #39 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I saw it. There is a marked difference between "idea" and "theory" in scientific terms. What you are discussing is an idea or a dream. The scientific theory KNOWS what the caloric burn is to mend a broken bone and it isn't much of a stretch to figure out that a human body cannot generate or tolerate what it takes to break most of its bones, destroy and rebuild muscle and remend itself. You're discussing magical "what ifs". Many of us are responding with "science says no". Nibs Science says no, and more importantly, I say no! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 3, 2013 #40 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I use the word dreamtime as in the experiences that are of a dream like nature. Dreamtime is what the Indigenous Australians call their mythic cycle, it's also a place that THEY go when in the right place or frame of mind - it's very sacred to them and is somewhat insulting when outsiders appropriate it for their own ends. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 4, 2013 #41 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Why so? Why is it illogical/crazy to shapeshift while in astral/ldreamtime? The OP was talking about lycans and you were talking about shapeshifting. This topic is in the Myths and Legends section of the forum.. which means I believe that the myths and legends of shapeshifting(werewolves for example)have been based on the only logical way this type of shapeshifting is possible. And its that simple. So if someone in the past dreamt they had shapeshifted into a wolf and told anyone, they probably wouldve been called a witch or a 'werewolf'. And thats how I look at it. And not all dreams are just dreams.. I believe in shared dreaming and precog dreaming for good reasons. So they dont always seem to be just in your own mind. I dreamed last night that I was super good at laser tag and that I would play against 10 or 20 other guys and win over and over, but that does not mean I am actually a super laser tag champion or anything like that. People dreaming of being wolves should not automatically make them werewolves. People in the past would have been called a witch for any of thousands of dreams they might have had. Dreaming of being a wolf is just one of them. Dreaming of being a hamster, or a chicken, or a fish would have had the same reactions from authorities. My understanding of Astral/Dreamtime is that Anyone that gets there can shapeshift... into anything basically, but not everyone is a werewolf, so I think that astral shapeshifting has little to do with being a werewolf. Modern Lycans could very well be witches or astral shapeshifters... but still the term is not demonstrated to have been in use before the movie Underworld. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 4, 2013 #42 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Dreamtime is what the Indigenous Australians call their mythic cycle, it's also a place that THEY go when in the right place or frame of mind - it's very sacred to them and is somewhat insulting when outsiders appropriate it for their own ends. I feel quite connected to Aboriginal 'myths' and I dont feel I have insulted the meaning of the word. I dont believe people go to different place, only that people have different ways to describe/name it. I guess maybe I should leave a gap though.. so make it Dream time(to avoid conflict)because I cannot think of a better way to word the times of dreaming. What is a better word/phrase to use that means the time/place where people dream/ld/obe/astral travel? I dreamed last night that I was super good at laser tag and that I would play against 10 or 20 other guys and win over and over, but that does not mean I am actually a super laser tag champion or anything like that. People dreaming of being wolves should not automatically make them werewolves. Why give an example which is not the same. I have said that I believe the myths have been based on something. And the only logical thing to base shapeshifting myths on(imo) is from the only logical place where someone can actually shapeshift. So these examples people give have nothing to do with what I've said. People in the past would have been called a witch for any of thousands of dreams they might have had. Dreaming of being a wolf is just one of them. Dreaming of being a hamster, or a chicken, or a fish would have had the same reactions from authorities. My understanding of Astral/Dreamtime is that Anyone that gets there can shapeshift... into anything basically, but not everyone is a werewolf, so I think that astral shapeshifting has little to do with being a werewolf. Yes but if someone shifts into the same thing(wolf)for many many years then that could be where the myths/legends of the 'werewolf' have come from. I can only go from personal experience to be honest and its why I think of it in this way. I've told this before and I dont care what people think. People will hate on anything given the chance and people can call me whatever insulting names they wish. That shows their character. But to share my experiece again and so people know where I'm coming from.. I used to be hunted by a creature in dreams when I was younger(like Mr Walker was). Anyway I was hunted for over a year and in one of its last dreams it bit me. It was like a wolf/beast thing. It killed everyone else and when it bit me I woke up. Anyway I got p***ed off and decided to kill it. So I set it as a goal to go lucid when I saw it next and when I did eventually dream of it again, I killed it. It was strange because after I cut its head off its head was of a human female. And after that I started to shift into a standing wolf(I guess the idea was planted). I spent years killing in dreams as this thing, it felt very powerful and eventually I placed my hands down to run like an animal which fully shifted me into a wolf. And I didnt plan to shift, I just did and it was amazing. And I loved running so much that I spent years just running in that way(I still do although I tend to fly more now). Eventually I changed colour from black to white and I didnt kill anymore as wolf because I just loved running. I tend to think I changed colour because I loved running in the sun lol. Bleached me. And after time I would find myself just running in this way in normal dreams which would then turn me lucid. I also had a strange/scary experience once when I was forced to shift one night. I had my body fully taken over and was thrown on the bed and had my back broken. I heard it crack and it was very scary. I thought I was going to hurt my son because I couldnt control it and thought I was really doing it in real life. I ended up finding myself as a dog sniffing around the end of the street. lol. Heres a link to that experience if anyones interested. http://www.unexplain...pic=147446&st=0 Anyway so I know that sounds all very wannabe but its just how it all happened over many years. It flowed that way. And its why I think of the myths of 'werewolves' as being from dreaming. After turning white I started to shift into other things(although before the wolf I did shift into a fish once)but for years(10 at least)I spent as wolf. So I know people will get annoyed and say typical things but it doesnt change whats happened over the years and wont ever change where I think the myths have come from. Modern Lycans could very well be witches or astral shapeshifters... but still the term is not demonstrated to have been in use before the movie Underworld. Yeah I try to avoid that word. I only came in to say that shapeshifting is possible when someone claimed it wasnt(and to share my view on the myth). I think to claim something is not possible when something is possible is taking away a potential experience from someone who might be seeking it. Edited January 4, 2013 by Kazahel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 4, 2013 #43 Share Posted January 4, 2013 What is a better word/phrase to use that means the time/place where people dream/ld/obe/astral travel? made up? Seriously though, Dreamland. The Never-Never. Something like that, the Dreaming/Dreamtime is a really sacred term and not something we outsiders should be appropriating. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozarkian Posted January 5, 2013 #44 Share Posted January 5, 2013 We use sacred words all of the time, with no respect to the culture they come from. For example, the term "skinwalker." Traditional Navajos won't even speak it, but Hollywood has made horror movies based on the myth. Why are Aboriginal Australians so special? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 5, 2013 #45 Share Posted January 5, 2013 call it "personal bias" as unlike Navajos I know Indigenous Australians. call it "cultural respext" as, Idon't know sbout how Navajos view it, but to the Indigenous Peoples here, the sacred things are profaned when spoken about by people who aee not of the tribe/knowledge/blood/appropriate sex. call it "using words in their proper context" as when we say "skin walkers" we're actually talking about skin walkers, but in this context we're bot talking about the Dreamtime/Dreaming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 5, 2013 #46 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Oh, and Lycaon is supposedly a mythical figure, not a historic figure. Myths are not fairies. There is difference. Myths are based on true stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urisk Posted January 6, 2013 #47 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So I take it we have to accept Lycan as a valid word for werewolf or lycanthrope nowadays? Honestly I'd never seen it used prior to those awful films. Myths are not fairies. There is difference. Myths are based on true stories. Sorry but no, I don't agree with that. the definition of myths is a story (usually about a heroic figure, generally overcoming some obstacle such as a monster or task) used to explain a process of nature or allegorical statement. Myths are not really based on truth, they are based on a need to explain something. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangepeaceful79 Posted January 6, 2013 #48 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Myths are not fairies. There is difference. Myths are based on true stories. L...I'm trying to think of some myths that are based on true stories...having trouble coming up with any at the moment. Can you list a couple maybe? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 6, 2013 #49 Share Posted January 6, 2013 L...I'm trying to think of some myths that are based on true stories...having trouble coming up with any at the moment. Can you list a couple maybe? Thanks! Helike Troy Can provide more examples. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 6, 2013 #50 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Sorry but no, I don't agree with that. the definition of myths is a story (usually about a heroic figure, generally overcoming some obstacle such as a monster or task) used to explain a process of nature or allegorical statement. Myths are not really based on truth, they are based on a need to explain something. Sure. It is often used to explain something as allegory. And sometimes dont. Sometimes story seems so unbelivible to us that we consider to be myth till moment we realized that wasnt myth but history. Also about first ones , allegories, ...are also often based on true facts. Fairies on other hands are fictional and invented. Myths are often confused with faries. Often because they dont know difference. Tolkien: History became legend. Legend became myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now