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Crop Circles just one sign of Revelation

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Ignoring the large body of evidence and the testimonies of the actual crop circle makers themselves, that they are man made, is also untenable. As far as an argument goes, this works both ways.

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Ignoring the large body of evidence and the testimonies of the actual crop circle makers themselves, that they are man made, is also untenable. As far as an argument goes, this works both ways.

Chalk and cheese. Lots of witnesses who have no axe to grind against someone who for some reason wants to try and convince us that all crop circles are of human origin with heresay comments like 'I did not make this one but it is a human creation'. Agreed humans could have made one like it but the facts indicate they do not make them all for a large number of reasons.

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Ok, fair enough. Have you seen a UFO? Have you seen how a crop circle is made? Because unless you did, everything you say is "hearsay" as well.

As to what the facts indicate, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because to me the facts indicate something entirely different.

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Agreed humans could have made one like it but the facts indicate they do not make them all for a large number of reasons.

Who's facts.. and what reasons?

So far I have yet to see a FACT that says they were not human made..

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Who's facts.. and what reasons?

So far I have yet to see a FACT that says they were not human made..

"they're too complex"

"there's mathematics encoded into them"

"they appear overnight"

"drunk men with a plank of wood are idiots"

and my personal favourite

"because occam's razor says so".

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Ok, fair enough. Have you seen a UFO? Have you seen how a crop circle is made? Because unless you did, everything you say is "hearsay" as well.

As to what the facts indicate, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because to me the facts indicate something entirely different.

No I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.

Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.

Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

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Who's facts.. and what reasons?

So far I have yet to see a FACT that says they were not human made..

I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.

Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.

Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

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This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

People have been seeing the signs of the end of the world, including based on evidence from the Book of Revelation, since ten minutes after it was written.

We are no more, and no less, likely to be living in a Biblical end time now then we have been in the last 2000 years.

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People have been seeing the signs of the end of the world, including based on evidence from the Book of Revelation, since ten minutes after it was written.

We are no more, and no less, likely to be living in a Biblical end time now then we have been in the last 2000 years.

I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.

Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.

Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

Regarding the matter of Occum's Razor there are too many unanswered questions if we just said 'all crop designs are designed and made by humans', too many facts about the matter that would not fit this proposal. So it is a matter of each person's individual mind set as to the probabilty either way. Arthur C Clarke said that the chances of Earth having been visited from outside during its long history far outweighed the chances that it had not. So if we have inexplicable signs that we may be getting messages from outside this orb of ours and human creation does not fit the facts of the matter to say that these come from elsewhere is the simplest and most straightforward answer and hence quite in keeping with the principle of Occum's Razor.

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No I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity. Witness reports, evidence in the crops and on the ground, the size and comlexity of designs to be created in very short time periods without being seen and the sheer implausabilty of humans with microwave devices, to mimic the affects on crops, the effects on humans and electrical devices that visit the designs all lead to the inevitable conclusion that non human creation of some of these designs is by far and away the most logical answer. This has now been going on for many years starting with simple designs and becoming more complex with geometric and mathematical messages that have been decoded in the designs.

Hopefully there are now many who will be looking at the question of why we are getting these messages because the phenomena is now huge and that would indicate that the message is very important.

Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land. This begs the question is this a time of Revelation?

So it's all hearsay, if I apply your own rules on judging others and thus means nothing. thanks for confirming.

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So it's all hearsay, if I apply your own rules on judging others and thus means nothing. thanks for confirming.

As I said chalk and cheese; the independant witnesses I refer to have actually seen things and gain credibility by the numbers involved. One opinion from a non observer giving his opinion on what someone else has done clearly would not have the same standing and be hearsay.

People who make crop circles and seem to have an agenda of trying to convince everyone that all crop circles are of human origin have a problem because they never know where and when the designs are going to appear, like the rest of us. So it would be impossible to organise their lives in such a way that if they personally claimed the design to be their work evidence might not come to light that they were in fact doing something else at the time.

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there are hundres, if not thousands, of people clamouring for Obama's birth certificate to prove he's from Kenya. Numbers of people believing something does not mean it's true.

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As I said chalk and cheese; the independant witnesses I refer to have actually seen things and gain credibility by the numbers involved. One opinion from a non observer giving his opinion on what someone else has done clearly would not have the same standing and be hearsay.

People who make crop circles and seem to have an agenda of trying to convince everyone that all crop circles are of human origin have a problem because they never know where and when the designs are going to appear, like the rest of us. So it would be impossible to organise their lives in such a way that if they personally claimed the design to be their work evidence might not come to light that they were in fact doing something else at the time.

So the testimony of someone who has actually made crop circles, links which were given to you several times, are hearsay? Yet you refer to it as a non observer? What a wondrous world you live in.

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So the testimony of someone who has actually made crop circles, links which were given to you several times, are hearsay? Yet you refer to it as a non observer? What a wondrous world you live in.

The testimony of someone who has not made the design in question is hearsay and often speculation so of little value in a search for the truth. Please remember that just because some crop circles are clearly man made does not mean all crop designs are so made if the evidence makes this impossible.

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there are hundres, if not thousands, of people clamouring for Obama's birth certificate to prove he's from Kenya. Numbers of people believing something does not mean it's true.

So true, but that is why we look for evidence in crop design creation which does not tie in with human creation in some circles and do not rely on prejudice.

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The testimony of someone who has not made the design in question is hearsay and often speculation so of little value in a search for the truth. Please remember that just because some crop circles are clearly man made does not mean all crop designs are so made if the evidence makes this impossible.

Show me one bit of tangible, empirical evidence that makes the creation by man impossible.

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No I have never seen a UFO ( an old friend in the Parachute Regiment told me he and others with him had) but I don't count that and anyway there are other possible non human causes like a spiritual entity.

Its already been pointed out to you that UFOs creating crop circles isn't a fact, and just hearsay And then you bring "spiritual entities" into it - talk about missing the point.

Hence the reason for this thread which points out that the focal point of crop design activity is Wiltshire with its many very ancient monuments and also a focal point for a very ancient and extensive design of landscape geometry with Great Circle bearings to the alignment of 5 churches of Revelation and key sites in the Holy Land.

And I've pointed out that you're liberal with your idea of "alignment".

there are hundres, if not thousands, of people clamouring for Obama's birth certificate to prove he's from Kenya. Numbers of people believing something does not mean it's true.

One person believing something dumb is the same as a million believing it. It doesn't make it any less dumb.

The testimony of someone who has not made the design in question is hearsay and often speculation so of little value in a search for the truth. Please remember that just because some crop circles are clearly man made does not mean all crop designs are so made if the evidence makes this impossible.

In the absence of anything even vaguely realistic, it is entirely reasonable to conclude that all crop circles are man made based on the ones that have been proven to be.

Agreed humans could have made one like it but the facts indicate they do not make them all for a large number of reasons.

The facts aren't on your side mate.

Edited by Emma_Acid
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Its already been pointed out to you that UFOs creating crop circles isn't a fact, and just hearsay And then you bring "spiritual entities" into it - talk about missing the point.

And I've pointed out that you're liberal with your idea of "alignment".

One person believing something dumb is the same as a million believing it. It doesn't make it any less dumb.

In the absence of anything even vaguely realistic, it is entirely reasonable to conclude that all crop circles are man made based on the ones that have been proven to be.

The facts aren't on your side mate.

Ah, the return of the 'acid' lady

1. The term 'alien' is a poor one when we may be dealing with a 'foreign' intelligence which may be of a spiritual nature. It is a fact that many people get a 'spiritual' feeling when visiting some crop designs.

2. The alignments are a fact, but I am impressed that you seem to have looked into the matter. This is because there are lots more once you know the coordinates to use as a starting point which because of the great age of the sites involved is clearly a layout going back many thousands of years, like the sites in Wiltshire, ie Stonehenge, Avebury etc etc and the coordinates you need are just over hill from Avebury as found by David Furlong and noted in his book 'The Keys to the Temple'.

3. In order to come to the conclusion that all crop designs are of human origin you need to ignore so many facets of the phenomena that many would call that not dumb but in denial.

Hopefully you will come to see to see the light... after all the churches of Revelation are the lamps that guide the way... Jesus told us that...

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So I take it there is no tangible evidence then or even remotely empirical facts? Since everything you mention seems to be hearsay, you haven't seen or experienced any of it yourself (argument you used against me remember?) and take the word of a third person that just wrote a book about it.

And apparently we are slipping into the spiritual now.......Sorry but you'll have to do a lot better than that. Because in order to come to the conclusion that all crop designs are of non human origin, you need to ignore so many facets of the phenomena, that many would call that denial.

I hope that you will come to see the empirical evidence for what it is and follow the glowing light of science, so you can bask the warm radiance of knowledge.

(edit for typo)

Edited by TheSearcher
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Hopefully you will come to see to see the light... after all the churches of Revelation are the lamps that guide the way... Jesus told us that...

Since there are no sources outside the Bible that can corroborate the existence of Jesus as referenced in the Bible then we can not say that Jesus of the Bible actually existed so we also can not say that he said that.

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So I take it there is no tangible evidence then or even remotely empirical facts? Since everything you mention seems to be hearsay, you haven't seen or experienced any of it yourself (argument you used against me remember?) and take the word of a third person that just wrote a book about it.

And apparently we are slipping into the spiritual now.......Sorry but you'll have to do a lot better than that. Because in order to come to the conclusion that all crop designs are of non human origin, you need to ignore so many facets of the phenomena, that many would call that denial.

I hope that you will come to see the empirical evidence for what it is and follow the glowing light of science, so you can bask the warm radiance of knowledge.

(edit for typo)

To say that all crop circles are of non human origin is nonsense, just some, thats all

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Since there are no sources outside the Bible that can corroborate the existence of Jesus as referenced in the Bible then we can not say that Jesus of the Bible actually existed so we also can not say that he said that.

There are a lot of texts that write about Jesus but from memory only one mention in any contemporary records. But you have to accept that the stories about him have had a profound effect on the world in the last 2000 years which cannot be ignored. I was referring to the comments in the Book of Revelations which are attributed to Jesus for some reason so worthy of note

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To say that all crop circles are of non human origin is nonsense, just some, thats all

there's the rub Laver - circles that have been proclaimed as "impossible to be done by man" have since been debunked courtesy of the hoaxers coming out and saying "yeah, that was us".

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there's the rub Laver - circles that have been proclaimed as "impossible to be done by man" have since been debunked courtesy of the hoaxers coming out and saying "yeah, that was us".

No crop circle seen to date is 'impossible to be done by man' but that does not mean that they were done by man, does it ?

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No crop circle seen to date is 'impossible to be done by man' but that does not mean that they were done by man, does it ?

It doesn't mean either that has to be aliens/Jesus/spiritual. Since you still have to present any empirical proof that some actually are of not made by humans, it's a rather moot point.

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