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DingoLingo

UFO reports - From Foo fighters to today

118 posts in this topic

As Jim suggested in another thread.. this topic deserves its own thread..

Now while ufo's have been supposedly reported from the dawn of history.. lets just cover those from the 20th century and onwards..

(thank you wiki for the following list http://en.wikipedia....d_UFO_sightings)

The discussion is a open free for all.. if you have a particular event that is your pet favorite.. or are curious to see what others think.. if you are unsure of what the event is.. check the wiki page.. most of them have a link to get the full story.

Now I know a heck of a lot on here have been debunked (the Hills.. the norway spiral etc).. but there are believers still out there.. and also a number of these have been discussed before over the years.. but we do have a number of new people on here..

So Guys and Girls.. let the discussion begin..

And please.. let not have the I read the report etc.. thats just hearsay..

1908 Tunguska event

1909 Mystery Airships

1940s The Foo Fighters

1942 Hopeh Incident

1942 Battle of Los Angeles

1946 The Ghost Rockets

1946 UFO-Memorial

1947 Maury Island incident

1947 Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting

1947 1947 UFO sightings

1947 Roswell UFO crash

1948 The Green Fireballs

1948 Thomas Mantell

1948 Chiles-Whitted UFO Encounter

1948 Gorman Dogfight

1949 Frank Scully

1950 Varese Close Encounter

1950 Dr. Alexandro Botta UFO incident

1950 Mariana UFO Incident

1950 McMinnville UFO photographs

1951 Lubbock Lights

1952 1952 Washington D.C. UFO incident

1952 Carson Sink UFO incident

1952 The Flatwoods Monster

1953 Prescott Sightings

1953 Ellsworth UFO Case

1953 The disappearance of Felix Moncla

1953 Kelly Johnson/Santa Barbara Channel Case Seen from Agoura, California, and from aircraft flying over Pacific Ocean

1955 Kelly-Hopkinsville encounter

1957 Antonio Villas Boas

1957 Edwards Air Force Base UFO

1957 Milton Torres UFO Encounter -

1957 Ubatuba UFO Explosion

1957 Antonio Villas Boas Abduction

1957 Levelland UFO Case

1957 Fort Itaipu UFO Invasion

1957 Old-Saybrook UFO incident

1958 Trindade UFO Incident

1959 Dyatlov Pass incident

1959 Father William Booth Gil sighting

1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction

1964 Lonnie Zamora incident

1964 Donald Shrum

1965 The Incident at Exeter

1965 Kecksburg UFO incident

1966 The Mothman Prophecies

1966 Michigan Swamp Gas Sighting

1966 Westall UFO

1966 Portage County UFO chase

1966 The Grinning Man

1966 Indrid Cold

1967 Betty Andreasson Abduction

1967 Falcon Lake Incident

1967 Close encounter of Cussac

1967 Snippy the Horse Mutilation

1967 Shag Harbour UFO Crash

1967 Herbert Schirmer

1968 Buff Ledge Camp Abduction

1969 Jimmy Carter UFO incident

1970 Cowichan District Hospital UFO Incident

1973 The Judy Doraty Abduction

1973 Skylab 3 UFO Encounter

1973 The Alabama Close Encounter

1973 Pascagoula Abduction

1973 Eglin Air Force Base Sighting

1974 Berwyn Mountain UFO

1975 Wurtsmith AFB

1975 Travis Walton

1976 1976 Canary Isles sightings

1976 Stanford Abduction

1976 Allagash Abductions

1976 1976 Tehran UFO incident

1977 Colares UFO flap

1978 Emilcin Abduction

1978 Valentich Disappearance

1978 Kaikoura lights

1979 Val Johnson Incident

1979 Dechmont Woods Encounter

1979 Manises UFO Incident

1980 Rendlesham-Woodbridge Incident

1980 Cash-Landrum incident

1981 Trans-en-Provence Case

1981 Hudson Valley Sightings

1983 Copely Woods Encounter

1985 Whitley Strieber

1986 São Paulo UFO sighting

1986 Japan Air Lines flight 1628

1987 Gulf Breeze UFO incident

1990 Belgian UFO wave

1991 STS-48 incident Space Shuttle Discovery while in orbit

1993 Kelly Cahill

1994 Meng Zhaoguo Incident

1995 America West Airlines Flight 564

1996 Varginha UFO incident

1996 Westendorff UFO sighting

1996 STS-80 incidents Space Shuttle Columbia while in orbit

1997 Phoenix Lights

2001 NJ Turnpike/Carteret Lights Incident

2004 2004 Mexican UFO Incident

2004 The Tinley Park Lights

2006 Chicago O'Hare UFO

2007 Charles Hall

2007 2007 Alderney UFO sighting

2007 Kodiak Island UFO incident

2008 Stephenville UFO,

2008 Turkey UFO Sightings

2008 Wales UFO sightings

2008 Moscow UFO sightings

2009 2009 Norwegian spiral anomaly Finnmark

2010 Harbour Mille incident

2011 Jerusalem Dome of the Rock UFO incident

2011 Vancouver Washington UFO Sighting

2011 Yerevan UFO Sighting

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Are we starting from the assumption that everyone must be divided into sheep or gaots, or Believers and Skeptics?, and that if one is a Skeptic, then one must insist that there's a Rational explanation for all of these? have all these cases been Denunked satisfactorily, in the Skeptical view? You say, for instance, that Betty & Barney Rubble- er, Hill have been Debunked. What is the accepted Debunkation for that? If a Debunk has been offered, then do the the Skeptics must accept that, like religious dogma, and say "that's been put to bed then; Next!"? That's sometimes what it seems like.

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Are we starting from the assumption that everyone must be divided into sheep or gaots, or Believers and Skeptics?, and that if one is a Skeptic, then one must insist that there's a Rational explanation for all of these? have all these cases been Denunked satisfactorily, in the Skeptical view? You say, for instance, that Betty & Barney Rubble- er, Hill have been Debunked. What is the accepted Debunkation for that? If a Debunk has been offered, then do the the Skeptics must accept that, like religious dogma, and say "that's been put to bed then; Next!"? That's sometimes what it seems like.

Pretty much.. though there are still some that have yet to be explained :)

Take the Hills.. their 'abduction story changed so much over a period of time.. that it ended up becoming laughable.. from what the aliens looked like.. betty said they spoke english. barney said they used telepathy.. and it goes on from there..

But there are still people that believe that they were abducted..

for me.. Foo Fighters have always perked my interest.. they have not been fully explained for me to say .. yup.. debunked or solved.. there is something about them..

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hello Dingo,

maybe a good starting point would be for you to note next to each case listed

-solved (with a couple of words such as hoax/plane etc)

-unsolved

then we can go from there....

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Pretty much.. though there are still some that have yet to be explained :)

Take the Hills.. their 'abduction story changed so much over a period of time.. that it ended up becoming laughable.. from what the aliens looked like.. betty said they spoke english. barney said they used telepathy.. and it goes on from there..

But there are still people that believe that they were abducted..

Surely there might be an obvious answer there, for instance, that if one was communicating with someone then obviously one would use their language, would one not? And if they did communicate through telepathy then possibly they'd have some technique for the recipient being able to understand in their own language? Equally surely, if one had had an experience that was completely outside one's normal range of experience, then it would be difficult to find words to adequately describe it, so that what you said might sound inadequate or implausible? Regarding the appearance of the Aliens, yes, the tall blond aliens in shiny suits do sound straight out fo 50's sci fi, but that might be the only way that someone to whom this was completely outside their normal range of experience could describe it? Or perhaps even the ETs might choose to appear in particular forms to particular people or races, to avoid freaking them out too much, or perhaps they were a kind of avatar, designed to appear to them in a form that they could comprehend? I really don't know if presumed inadequacies or discrepancies in testimony are good enough reason to dismiss all such experiences with a curl of the Lip.

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hello Dingo,

maybe a good starting point would be for you to note next to each case listed

-solved (with a couple of words such as hoax/plane etc)

-unsolved

then we can go from there....

its not a bad idea quillius.. problem is.. doing that would start a whole new argument :).. believers say its not debunked etc.. look at the AA thread ;)

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Surely there might be an obvious answer there, for instance, that if one was communicating with someone then obviously one would use their language, would one not? And if they did communicate through telepathy then possibly they'd have some technique for the recipient being able to understand in their own language? Equally surely, if one had had an experience that was completely outside one's normal range of experience, then it would be difficult to find words to adequately describe it, so that what you said might sound inadequate or implausible? Regarding the appearance of the Aliens, yes, the tall blond aliens in shiny suits do sound straight out fo 50's sci fi, but that might be the only way that someone to whom this was completely outside their normal range of experience could describe it? Or perhaps even the ETs might choose to appear in particular forms to particular people or races, to avoid freaking them out too much, or perhaps they were a kind of avatar, designed to appear to them in a form that they could comprehend? I really don't know if presumed inadequacies or discrepancies in testimony are good enough reason to dismiss all such experiences with a curl of the Lip.

ok true..

When Barney took a few people out to see where they were abducted from.. he described the aliens as having large wrap around eyes.. which he never mentioned in his original description (3 years prior).. This description came out a week or two after the show The Outer Limits showed a alien with low and behold.. large wrap around eyes..

Carl Sagan did a bit regarding Betty's Starmap in his Cosmos show..

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its not a bad idea quillius.. problem is.. doing that would start a whole new argument :).. believers say its not debunked etc.. look at the AA thread ;)

yes and its in the argument we have all the fun isnt it :)

let me start ...pascagoula case ...debunk away or another favourite of mine.....portage county.......good luck with those two

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1908 Tunguska event

1909 Mystery Airships

1940s The Foo Fighters

What we now term UFOs were reported in Europe during the mid 1930s. They had what we term a UFO wave during that time. Also the odd ball CE3 later reported to organizations such as APRO that supposedly predate WWII. Coral Lorenzen had her first UFO sighting during the 1930s.

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Here's what I got from 1900 up to the Kenneth Arnold sighting....

  • February 28, 1904. San Francisco, CA. Lt. Frank Schofield wrote of three bright red egg-shaped and circular objects.
  • June 30, 1908.Tunguska, Siberia explosion event.
  • 1910-1912. UFO reports in Russian newspapers.
  • 1914. Georgia Bay, Canada. Spherial UFO at lake with occupants. William J. Kiehl.
  • January 31, 1916. UK. A UK pilot near Rochford reported a row of lights, like lighted windows on a railway carriage, that rose and disappeared.
  • 1917.Fatima, Portugal
  • 1922. Poland. A silvery object. Two hemispheres divided by a rotating ring shoots a beam of light.
  • 1926. A pilot reported six "flying manhole covers" between Wichita, Kansas and Colorado Springs, Colorado.
  • 1927. New York State. UFO landing trace photo.
  • 1927. Fernvale, NSW, Australia. A disc-shaped object with dome. Landing trace.
  • 1927. Cave Junction, Oregon. UFO Photo
  • August 5, 1927. Mongolia. Nikolay Roerich and six others. Oval UFO.
  • March or April, 1929. Illinois. Shining flying disc projected a beam of light.
  • 1930s. Ghost Aircraft, Phantom Aircrafts, Ghost Fliers
  • 1932. St. Paris, Ohio. George Sutton photo.
  • 1933. RS/33 (Ricerche Speciale [special Research] 33) Cabinet to study the 'Velivoli Non Convenzionali' (unconventional aircraft) started in Italy by Mussolini.
  • 1933. Milan, Italy. Possible UFO crash near Milan.
  • 1933-1937. Hundreds of citizens in the Finland saw mysterious phantom aircrafts or ghost fliers. It was probably a second wave of unusual mass sightings in the World, which was officially studied.
  • 1934. Coral E. Lorenzen, the founder of the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization hemispherical-shaped object sighting.
  • June, 1935. Astounding Stories magazine cover of an alien abduction.
  • August 17, 1936. Venice, Italy. Aerial torpedo with windows and two hat shaped UFOs pursued by two fighter planes. Report by 'Andrea' an Italian secret service agent.
  • 1938. Orson Welles's The War Of The Worlds radio adaptation of the H. G. Wells's novel.
  • 1940. Gateshead, Britain. Mr. Robert Hall CE III.
  • 1941. The Books of Charles Fort by Tiffany Thayer was published by Henry Holte and Company, New York.
  • Spring, 1941. Cape Girardeau, Missouri. UFO Crash, aliens photographed. Reverend William Huffman.
  • Late 1941. Sonora, Mexico (south of Arizona). UFO crash recovery by the US Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI).
  • February 25, 1942. "Battle of Los Angeles"
  • 1942. Tientsien, Hopeh Province, North China. UFO photo.
  • 1942. Tasman Peninsula, Australia. RAAF pilot flying aircraft off the coast of Tasman Peninsula in 1942 spotted an unusual airfoil bronze colored craft 50 feet wide 150 feet long surrounded by a reflective dome. It kept pace with the RAAF pilot's aircraft before departing rapidly.
  • Summer 1942. 'North Of Georgia' UFO Crash at Army base. Witness Mary Nunn (pseudonym).
  • 1943. Gdynia, Baltic coast of Poland. Daniel Léger CE III. "The Aviatrix."
  • 1943. Foo Fighters
  • Second World War, East Coast of England. RAF bomber encounter with UFO. Winston Churchill ordered a cover-up.
  • 1943. Germany. A fleet of flying discs -- called 'Foo Fighters' -- were launched from huge cigar-shaped mother craft during B-17 daylight raids over Germany.
  • April 5, 1943. Long Beach, California. Gerry Casey flying a Vultee Valiant BT-13 trainer with student. Encountered an elliptical-shape UFO.
  • September, 1943. Stuttgart. Germany. Small discs (General Arnold's files).
  • October, 1943. Schweinfurt, Germany. Small discs.
  • Southwest Ukraine, 1944. Boris Surikov and his commander, Major Bajenov during a mission to Romania to bomb oil refineries used by the Germans encountered a large elliptical-shaped object that flew towards them. Felt strong electrostatic charge.
  • W.W. II. 1944. Kaneohe, Oahu, Hawaii. E.L. (initials), serving as Carpenter Mate, 1st Class, Hqt. Co. 112th Construction Battalion, came across a landed saucer near a wooded ridge, near the beach of Kaneohe, Oahu, Hawaii.
  • June, 1944. Fairlight Quarry near Hastings, Sussex, England. Bill Steele, frequently observed hub-caps, haped UFOs, though a little larger, circling V-1s (Vergeltungswaffen - retaliation weapons) and running alongside with ease.
  • August 11, 1944. France. A Lancaster bomber crew of eight saw what they described as a huge disc-shaped object with a row of lights that dwarfed their aircraft many times over.
  • October 18, 1944. Alfonsine, Italy. Small discs.
  • Mid-July, 1945. Hanford Nuclear Reactor. Six F6F "Hellcats" made visual contact with the object described as the size of three aircraft carriers side by side, oval shaped.
  • August 16, 1945. San Antonio, New Mexico. UFO Crash. Reme Baca, Jose Padilla.
  • Summer, 1945. Stendal, near Berlin. Black plate, diameter 1/8 the moon. Flying against wind below clouds. Von Ludwiger, Illo Brand.
  • Summer and Autumn, 1946. Sweden Ghost Rockets
  • May, 1946. Numerous sightings in Russia including landings.
  • May, 1946. Malmo, southern Sweden. Gosta Carlsson, Disc-shaped object with a cupola. 17 feet in height, 53 feet in diameter. Two metal legs.
  • July 10, 1946. Bjorkon, Sweeden. A number of people watched as a "projectile trailing luminous smoke" slammed into a beach leaving a yard wide, shallow crater containing a slag-like material.
  • February 20, 1947. Syracuse University, New York. Astronomer and two students at Syracuse campus see an unending stream of elliptical or circular objects cossing the heavens, obliterating the stars as they passed at a high rate of speed through refractor telescope.
  • April, 1947. U.S. Weather Bureau sighting of metallic disks through theodolite telescope.
  • June 21, 1947. Spokane, Washington. Eight discoid objects, each estimated to be the size of a house, allegedly were seen flying over Spokane in eastern Washington State. "Falling leaf" motion.
  • Summer, 1947. News wires ran stories of Swedish ghost rocket crashes. Many of these UFOs fell into lakes.

Modern Era In Ufology

  • June 24, 1947. Kenneth Arnold sighting (popularized the term "flying saucer") ushering in the modern era in Ufology.

Edited by topsecretresearch

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Here's what I got from 1900 up to the Kenneth Arnold sighting....

you're saying they were here before the atomic bombs?

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you're saying they were here before the atomic bombs?

Well, think about that; if they did come as a result of the Atomic bombs, that must mean that they'd have had time to detect the explosions, decide to do something about it (though why they should be so worried is anyone's guess, since there are billions of immeasurably larger atomic reactions going on all over the universe all the time), launch an expedition, and get here in time to plant at least one of their craft all over New Mexico, all in less than two years. That would have to mean they were pretty close.

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If you are new to UFOs I recommend one of the UFO Encylopedias. Some public libraries carry them. You can read about older UFO encounters such as Robozero, Russia (also called The Robozero Marvel), UFO 'battle' over Nuremberg, Germany in 1561, etc.

THE%20UFO%20ENCYCLOPEDIA.jpg

Edited by topsecretresearch

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Well, think about that; if they did come as a result of the Atomic bombs, that must mean that they'd have had time to detect the explosions, decide to do something about it (though why they should be so worried is anyone's guess, since there are billions of immeasurably larger atomic reactions going on all over the universe all the time), launch an expedition, and get here in time to plant at least one of their craft all over New Mexico, all in less than two years. That would have to mean they were pretty close.

to 'support' the hypothesis re the common lore we need to consider that these fellows are omnipresent, they get to see what we're up to through some bio-conscious field / or, something similar and that they do not need to traverse the vastness of space to get here... they just pop-in-n-out, just like that... but then there's the question, if they are aware of our misbehavings (i.e. to say that they are monitoring us constantly) then why do they need to pop in physically to observe whatever it is that they need to observe? it kinda goes against the zoo hypothesis, isn't it?

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Maybe they keep coming back because we are an experiment that they started and had nothing to do with the bomb. At least not at first.

Since they must be a very advanced race to do what has been reported over the years it might not take them that long to get here even if they live light years away.

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Maybe they keep coming back because we are an experiment that they started and had nothing to do with the bomb. At least not at first.

Since they must be a very advanced race to do what has been reported over the years it might not take them that long to get here even if they live light years away.

Some people report multi-generational alien abductions. Thomas Reed would be an example of this. Bud Hopkins was told about early alien abduction cases that predate WW.I.I. So if you are an abductee who was abducted as a child then your parents could be abductees and any children you have could be abducted. If this is true it means ETs may have been coming here for some time. Human activity during the atomic era may have been a cause for concern if humans serve some purpose to these beings. Ufologist Robert Hastings for example has done a lot of reserch on UFOs and nuclear weapons. UFO incidents that occur around ICBM sites and nuclear power plants. Also humans venturing into outer space may be a cause for concern.

The truth is the Universe could be teaming with life very much like what you see in science fiction. Aliens may have always been aware of Earth and life on this planet but we are considered very primitive.

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Are we starting from the assumption that everyone must be divided into sheep or gaots, or Believers and Skeptics?, and that if one is a Skeptic, then one must insist that there's a Rational explanation for all of these? have all these cases been Denunked satisfactorily, in the Skeptical view? You say, for instance, that Betty & Barney Rubble- er, Hill have been Debunked. What is the accepted Debunkation for that? If a Debunk has been offered, then do the the Skeptics must accept that, like religious dogma, and say "that's been put to bed then; Next!"? That's sometimes what it seems like.

It's a bit tricky isn't it. We like to keep open minded, we like to think the possibility of "visitors" is there, and we look for evidence to support that, and very hard, which has led to much disappointment along the way, and people making things up so they do not look like fools. Whilst some cases might be intriguing, the general washout of what DL has posted deems any such thing insignificant in the big picture, and yes, as such something good might be missed along the way, yet I point the finger at those who claim to have "answers" as the very cause. I feel the general consensus is that the Hill's tale is fabricated, I mean really does anyone really believe it actually happened as they say? Things like the teletext machine and their "record books" are just far too blatant for people to be taken in I really hope. I mean seriously, one has to really want to believe to swallow that one.

They will keep pushing ET where he does not exist and is not welcome. Prime example:

1908 Tunguska event

1909 Mystery Airships

1940s The Foo Fighters

What we now term UFOs were reported in Europe during the mid 1930s. They had what we term a UFO wave during that time. Also the odd ball CE3 later reported to organizations such as APRO that supposedly predate WWII. Coral Lorenzen had her first UFO sighting during the 1930s.

Now none of these are ET related, Tunguska is indeed from space, and the closest analogy to what is being discussed here, but has been presented as a mystery, and anomaly, a possible ET visit, when it is most definitely not. So why push them in an ET forum?

Foo Fighters were balls of light that passed right through planes, and as for the Mystery Airship, that is laughable as ET, whilst it remains a mystery, no being is crossing the galaxy in this, I do not care what any ET'her has to say:

airshipdetailed.jpg

This justifies DL's cynical OP, and it's quite valid as such I feel. These "UFOlogists" make these beds they sleep in, but how they sleep at night I do not know. Anyone who might suggest the above was ET, just because it was "unexplained" deserves no more. As a species, we are too advanced to keep hiding under the covers telling Ghost stories. Well, we should be......... ;)

In all, I think one can take the kid gloves too far. The UFO field dances on this rim. I think we should just call a spade a spade, be done with it, roll our sleeves up, and sort it all out :D

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to 'support' the hypothesis re the common lore we need to consider that these fellows are omnipresent, they get to see what we're up to through some bio-conscious field / or, something similar and that they do not need to traverse the vastness of space to get here... they just pop-in-n-out, just like that... but then there's the question, if they are aware of our misbehavings (i.e. to say that they are monitoring us constantly) then why do they need to pop in physically to observe whatever it is that they need to observe? it kinda goes against the zoo hypothesis, isn't it?

One also wonders why they sit around on their hands with thousands of tests under our belts by now. Obviously ET never went to France or China either ;)

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I think a larger quantity of Foo Fighter sightings were down to drug induced hallucinations (morphine) . I live in the South of England and near a few retired WW2 air fields. You can visit them and if you are lucky get to talk to some veterans.

one claim has come up twice at two separate air fields by different people. The mortality rate was so high that some pilots would suffer near complete mental breakdowns before missions. We recognize this today as battle fatigue, however it was not recognized back then (remember Patton slapping soldier). The medics and nurses had no way to combat this and little understanding of it. They would often administer Morphine to air crew in a bid to calm nerves. Apparently there would often be a queue out side the medical shed before a bombing mission. The Americans apparently were the worst for this as they conducted the day light missions which had unbelievable losses.

Having been on Morphine in the past for over a week following a serious accident I can totally believe this as it is a very powerful drug that I experienced various hallucinations on. Many doctors have been known to get addicted to it for recreational use.

It is just another horrible side of war which people would rather not talk about I guess.

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Have the Phoenix Lights been properly explained yet? The second event was a clear attempt by the gov't to draw attention away from the first event. They accomplished exactly what they set out to do since the masses think it is the official footage and accepted the explanation. No questions asked, business as usual.

Here's an attempt to explain the first event as planes formation. The video was captured by a retired pilot, seemed awfully young to retired. Maybe he hates flying. Can you imagine Captain Sullenberger retired at the same age? We would never had know him...anyway, just look.

Notice the reason was that since the light moved in relation to each other, so it's must be planes flying in formation. Look at the video below starting at 5:30. Ozma Linderman said she saw the lights in an oval shape and shot straight up. Apparently, the lights can move! The fact that lights can move does not mean planes flying in formation :no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMH3BuuxNQ

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Have the Phoenix Lights been properly explained yet?

Yes. Some refuse the explanations without valid ground but yes.

The second event was a clear attempt by the gov't to draw attention away from the first event.

How so? Have you seen the gif Boon made of the video? It's quite clearly flares.

120hwua.gif

They accomplished exactly what they set out to do since the masses think it is the official footage and accepted the explanation. No questions asked, business as usual.

Well, that does not make sense, because the one shouting ET from the rooftops is the Government - Fife Symmington. The person saying this is not ET, it is planes is a civillian. Mitch Stanley. It is actually the opposite of what you are proposing in reality.

If it is a Government cover up, the only thing it could possibly be is a type of secret aircraft, one might speculate a hydrogen aircraft or some such thing. The Government always encourages ET when it is military.

And the Government are the idiots parading around in Alien suits, making a mockery of those trying to actually prove planes. Funnily, many people started trusting the Government and said the this politician was to be believed, yet if the same guy was to say this was not ET, the same people would be saying the same evil Government would be covering it up, so how does a rational explanation get heard at all?

Here's an attempt to explain the first event as planes formation. The video was captured by a retired pilot, seemed awfully young to retired. Maybe he hates flying. Can you imagine Captain Sullenberger retired at the same age? We would never had know him...anyway, just look.

I canot see the vid, and wont bother to view it on my phone, no offence but I have seen more than enough testimony from Phoenix to know the ETH'ers are just a mob of thugs. They shouted down Mitch Stanley when he tried to say planes, and suppressed him.

Now why would a politician do that you might wonder?

Notice the reason was that since the light moved in relation to each other, so it's must be planes flying in formation. Look at the video below starting at 5:30. Ozma Linderman said she saw the lights in an oval shape and shot straight up. Apparently, the lights can move! The fact that lights can move does not mean planes flying in formation :no:

Many individuals have been cherry picked. Each time a believer testimony is placed up, a skeptical view from another witness is placed against it. This sort of cherry picking can go on forever and never see a resolve. It is pointless to hope that some civillian has the answer, and lets face it, a dead end. All we can really rely on is hard data, and hard data insists planes that were noticed by more people than usual because more people than usual were outside looking up at Comet Hale-Bop. People got excited at a new sight, some idiot reporter read the wrong visitors logs at the base, and the Phoenix Lights became suspected aliens.

Do you honestly believe for a second that if a giant ET craft really did hover over a major city for that long, that the proof would be so minimal people would argue it for decades? Not meant as anything but a genuine question. Sometimes it is hard to see the obvious when the UFO buffs throw chaff and garbage in your path.

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I think a larger quantity of Foo Fighter sightings were down to drug induced hallucinations (morphine) . I live in the South of England and near a few retired WW2 air fields. You can visit them and if you are lucky get to talk to some veterans.

one claim has come up twice at two separate air fields by different people. The mortality rate was so high that some pilots would suffer near complete mental breakdowns before missions. We recognize this today as battle fatigue, however it was not recognized back then (remember Patton slapping soldier). The medics and nurses had no way to combat this and little understanding of it. They would often administer Morphine to air crew in a bid to calm nerves. Apparently there would often be a queue out side the medical shed before a bombing mission. The Americans apparently were the worst for this as they conducted the day light missions which had unbelievable losses.

Having been on Morphine in the past for over a week following a serious accident I can totally believe this as it is a very powerful drug that I experienced various hallucinations on. Many doctors have been known to get addicted to it for recreational use.

It is just another horrible side of war which people would rather not talk about I guess.

That is a very interesting and quite plausible hypothesis.

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Psy, the gif by Boon is of the second event, 10 o'clock. Yes, those are flares, an attempt to draw attention away from the first.

Fife made a mockery of the whole situation because he was the governor at the time. he later admit to seeing it himself. his attempt to find out what it was was in vain. Yes, he is government, but not the same government we're talking about.

It's just that the number of individuals claiming to see an actual object over their head is too much to dismiss. When these people say that the explanations by experts or gov't are bs, how can we accept those explanations? Like I said, most of those explanation or of the second event, the gif by Boon above. It's not the same as the first at 8 o'clock.

btw, where boon? haven't heard from him lately.

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Psy, the gif by Boon is of the second event, 10 o'clock. Yes, those are flares, an attempt to draw attention away from the first.

There was also a video posted of the first event. Can I ask you to find it, I do not Youtube if I can help it. Terry Proctor shot it.

It seals the deal. Not one big object, not aliens.

Fife made a mockery of the whole situation because he was the governor at the time. he later admit to seeing it himself. his attempt to find out what it was was in vain. Yes, he is government, but not the same government we're talking about.

Ohh man.

Now your doing it! The Government cannot be trusted unless they change their story down the track and come out with ET?

And there is more than one Government, and this one we happen to know works for the "Good Government"?

Fair go mate.

Mate, that does not make sense. Seriously, read it back to yourself and then try to tell me you do not sound hysterical and paranoid. Take the Aliens out of the story and look at it again. This is what I mean about "Shoehorning" ET in where he does not belong.

As I said, when the U2 was spotted by civillians, and they said ET, the Government knew what was sighted was the U2 but just shrugged and went "Aliens, sure, why not"?

It's just that the number of individuals claiming to see an actual object over their head is too much to dismiss. When these people say that the explanations by experts or gov't are bs, how can we accept those explanations? Like I said, most of those explanation or of the second event, the gif by Boon above. It's not the same as the first at 8 o'clock.

There are many individuals. Yet out of all these people, hardly anyone actually took pictures or video. Honestly, what would you do if a Ginat triangle craft was hovering over you? No News teams out there, nothing. Because it was two short lived events that became the object of severe confusion mainly due to the fact that many people tried to interpret something unusual to them.

What, the expert testimony of housewives, plumbers and store assistants? That is more convincing than a young man with a telescope offering a view 43 times better than every one else in town who spends much time using a telescope to look at the sky and was also corroborated by others? I happen to own the same type of scope - a Dobsonian. Mate, his descriptions are on the level, and his story has remained consistant, and nobody can claim a better view.

Like I say for every person who says it was Alienz, there is one who says no it was not. Fife is an ex pilot? Well here is a current one:

I was on my way from Flagstaff to Laughin Thursday when I saw the light formation reported on the radio the other night. I'm a pilot and was in the u.s. air force 4 years. Being in the mountains on highway 40, the night was clear and still. As the formation came towards me I stopped my car and got out with my binocs to check out what this was. As it came towards me, I saw 5 aircraft with there running lights (red and green) and the landing lights (white) on. They were also flying fairly slow and in the delta formation. As they went over me I could see stars going between the aircraft so it could not have been one large ship. The flying was like that of the Blue Angels or the thunderbirds demo team. Also as they went buy their jets were not very loud because of the low throttle setting for flying slow but I did hear the jets as they went away towards the south. (Contry)

Additionally, we discover there were more witnesses to aircraft in formation that night:

...At 8:30 p.m. the cockpit crew of an American West 757 airliner at 17,000 feet near Lake Pleasant, Ariz., noticed the lights off to their right and just above them.

"There's a UFO!" co-pilot John Middleton said kiddingly to pilot Larry Campbell. They queried the regional air-traffic-control center in Albuquerque, N.M. A controller radioed back that it was a formation of CT-144s flying at 19,000 feet.

Overhearing the exchange, someone claiming to be a pilot in the formation radioed Middleton. "We're Canadian Snowbirds flying Tutors," a man said...

But Capt. Michael Perry, squadron logistics officer for the Snowbirds, denied that any planes were in Arizona that month. "We don't travel ina V-shaped formation, and we don't cruise with landing lights on," he told Readers Digest.
(Fitzgerald)

LINK

One question that I have asked many times that nobody can answer is:

Big Object right? When did it leave or even enter from space? Amateur radio telescopes, visual telescopes, private satellites all would have picked it up, and even given clear pictures. Just like the last 2 Jupiter strikes. If it is Alien it had to come from space right? When and where? It's not stealth, hell, it hovered over a major city, possibly twice in one night in full view.

If it came from space, an awful lot of us would know about it I promise you.

Whats the bet some numpty tries to sell dimensional craft next to keep the tale alive?? LOL :rolleyes:

btw, where boon? haven't heard from him lately.

No idea, I hope he is having an awesome break for the holiday. He better not be visiting down under without a howdy do, or I will chase the bugger down.

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I hope he didnt burn out like a candle in the wind ,or was that flare ? :no::tu:

Get Happy boony !

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