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DingoLingo

UFO reports - From Foo fighters to today

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Psy, I believe Terry Proctor is in the first video I posted. He also said it was silent, he could be too far to hear the sound if it's planes.

Fife Only spoke of it after leaving government. So I don't think he speak for the government. He's no different than any retired/former government workers that decided to tell us what they know. I don't think he is even that, since he's just a state governor that have no official capacity with any military/secret project. In this case, he's just a witness that happened to hold government job. If you work for one department in goverment, I don't think you can claim to know what's going on in another department. Not even Jimmy Carter is immune.

So this just come down to who we choose to believe? skeptics like the testimony of those saying planes formation. Believers like those saying "out of this world". We have guy with telescope saying planes formation, we have people seen it overhead saying not planes. We have retired pilot saying planes and another retired pilot saying not planes! So the debate continue, nothing settled. :cry:

Whether this case is "solved" or not, it's in the eyes of the beholder. But the debate can be danm ugly sometime. :D

To answer one of your many question, Psy, Ozma Lindderman did said, "(it) shot straight up".

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Psy, I believe Terry Proctor is in the first video I posted. He also said it was silent, he could be too far to hear the sound if it's planes.

Sorry, I would not know, I cannot see YT here either. I have to go to great lengths to view YT. I hate it to be frank.

After 43 seconds of tape, the Proctor video shows individual lights. If we must have a video, can I suggest this format. LINK - Discovery.

Fife Only spoke of it after leaving government. So I don't think he speak for the government. He's no different than any retired/former government workers that decided to tell us what they know. I don't think he is even that, since he's just a state governor that have no official capacity with any military/secret project. In this case, he's just a witness that happened to hold government job. If you work for one department in goverment, I don't think you can claim to know what's going on in another department. Not even Jimmy Carter is immune.

You think? I suggest you look up his brother ;) Who just happens to be a UFO buff!

Do you know why he was not Govenor any longer? This is not the first time he has been accused of fraud, last time he lost the case in court:

U.S. Department of Justice news release

June 13, 1996

Governor of Arizona Indicted on Federal Fraud and Extortion Charges

United States Attorney for the Central District of California Nora Manella and Phoenix FBI Special Agent in Charge Bruce Gebhardt announced that John Fife Symington III, the Governor of the Stat of Arizona, was indicted today by a grand jury in the District of Arizona in a 23-count indictment charging him with making false statements to federally insured financial institutions, wire fraud, attempted extortion, and bankruptcy fraud.

Prior to being elected Governor in February 1991, Symington was a commercial real estate developer. The indictment charges Symington with providing false personal financial statements for his real estate projects; with attempting to extort six Arizona labor union pension funds into releasing him from a personal guarantee of a $10 million loan made by the pension funds in connectin with Symington's Phoenix Mercado project; and with making false statements under oath during a debtor's examination in his pending bankruptcy case.

LINK

So an Ex-Government man, who's brother holds a decent position, and is a UFO buff, who has ripped of the community, has been charged with making False Statements in the past, is such is an honest down to earth bloke that should be believed over 19 year Old Mitch Stanley with a telescope who is corroborated by others and shouted down by UFO buffs? A civillian kid is less believable than someone older who has been charged and convicted with making false statements in the past??

This bloke is trustworthy???????

l46002-1.jpg

The retired people who come forth with claims are not always on the level. Bushman is not, Ed Mitchell knows nothing, but the media says he does, it does not matter who comes forth, not one can provide any more than a claim. And pretty shaky ones at that. Proof is in the pudding, and the bowl is empty. The claims exist, but you need to look closely at them. We need to remember the media relies on flashy headlines to put food on the table. The Hynek UFO Report (p.271 of the paperback edition) states that “commercial and military pilots appear to make relatively poor witnesses”. Hynek was more cluey than any reporter ever will be on this subject. And I am sure we agree on that much.

So this just come down to who we choose to believe? skeptics like the testimony of those saying planes formation. Believers like those saying "out of this world". We have guy with telescope saying planes formation, we have people seen it overhead saying not planes. We have retired pilot saying planes and another retired pilot saying not planes! So the debate continue, nothing settled. :cry:

That is what I am saying, people are taking this option, when it is not the way to run. We need to see what actually exists. And what actually exists indicates a military exercise. Things like log books. Every single video and photo indicate flares and planes. Nothing at all has ever corroborated a giant triangle or even one single craft. Yet how many people live in Phoenix? Not one could manage to capture the giant wedge on tape? Not a single TV station? Does that not strike you as strange??

Again, the plural of anecdote is not data. One piece of empirical evidence outweighs a million testimonies.

Whether this case is "solved" or not, it's in the eyes of the beholder. But the debate can be danm ugly sometime. :D

The debate gets ugly because when people prove this was individual lights, people like Zoser ignore all information and cherry pick testimony and think one anonymous report trumps all logs, mathematical triangulation even according to information from the witnesses themselves. The only honest solution is that this was military according to the facts that do exist, excluding testimony. An argument for ET does not really exist, it's more of a protest that the case was solved.

I do not think that will be the case here, because you seem something of a gentleman, and willing to read. That's a massive head start on the woo woo contingent. Your good manner has earned my respect. I thank you for a civil conversation. Good to see this place being used properly for a change of late.

There is not really a counter argument, there is a giant woo woo factor that some hold onto like a dog with a bone. It is a bit annoying when people try to pull the wool over one's eye with woo woo. All that one can possibly achieve by endlessly citing witness testimony is only attempting to reinforce their own beliefs. If real facts for a giant craft existed, you and I would not be having this conversation I assure you.

To answer one of your many question, Psy, Ozma Lindderman did said, "(it) shot straight up".

Ozama is lying! That was my point!! We have literally thousands of eyes trained up at all times, probably millions because of Hale-Bop and from all over the world, not just Phoenix. We have machines recording. An Amateur from my own country picked up the last 2 Jupiter strikes and reported them to NASA who confirmed him. It is simply not possibly that nobody on earth saw this except Ozama, not only that, but what do the rest of the reports say? That it disappeared over the horizon. I wont even give the benefit of the doubt here, because I am completely sure that Ozama is lying. Do you not find one conflicting testimony of all something of a red flag?

This one really brought the crackpots put of the woodwork. You should read Tim Leys page. He thinks it was one giant craft........ sent from God! And even though he says "one giant craft" his description says:

Tim Ley says "It was astonishing and a little frightening. It was so big and so strange. You couldn't actually see the object. All you could see was the outline, as though something were blocking out the stars The lights looked like gas. There was a distortion on the surface. Also the light did not spill out or shine. I've never seen a light like that."

So it is one giant craft that he could not actually see? This is why we need to rely on data, not anecdotes. I undersand a want to know, I understand a desire to learn, the idea of a new visitor in exceedingly interesting, but information on ET is simply not there. It's just a big mess of assumptions.

I still say ET is not going to fly here. He or she or other I guess is going to make a phone call first. That is the intelligent thing to do IMHO.

Edited by psyche101
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Have the Phoenix Lights been properly explained yet? The second event was a clear attempt by the gov't to draw attention away from the first event. They accomplished exactly what they set out to do since the masses think it is the official footage and accepted the explanation. No questions asked, business as usual.

It was apparently the Canadian Snowbirds.

If that makes no sense to you, you're not the only one.

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I still say ET is not going to fly here. He or she or other I guess is going to make a phone call first. That is the intelligent thing to do IMHO.

That assumes, doesn't it, that he (a) knows that this planet is inhabited, if not perhaps Civilised, and ( B) knowing that, they'd then decide that they wanted to make Contact? Would it not be equally likely that they'd want to study the planet and everything about it, not just us, in a proper, systematic manner, just like we do in our tentative efforts at planetary exploration so far? Wouldn't making Contact with the dominant species skew the results? wouldn't it be the proper scientific thing to do not to try to interfere- because making Contact would surely interfere - and just observe? For that probes, at least, if not manned craft, would be needed, and if anyone was to ask me I'd say that might be a reasonable explanation for UFO Sightings.

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It was apparently the Canadian Snowbirds.

If that makes no sense to you, you're not the only one.

LOL, you should have spoken up earlier, you could have saved me all that typing.

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No idea, I hope he is having an awesome break for the holiday. He better not be visiting down under without a howdy do, or I will chase the bugger down.

Oh, he popped back in over the Festive holiday season, but then I think said that he had better things to do and went orf again.

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That assumes, doesn't it, that he (a) knows that this planet is inhabited, if not perhaps Civilised, and ( B) knowing that, they'd then decide that they wanted to make Contact? Would it not be equally likely that they'd want to study the planet and everything about it, not just us, in a proper, systematic manner, just like we do in our tentative efforts at planetary exploration so far? Wouldn't making Contact with the dominant species skew the results? wouldn't it be the proper scientific thing to do not to try to interfere- because making Contact would surely interfere - and just observe? For that probes, at least, if not manned craft, would be needed, and if anyone was to ask me I'd say that might be a reasonable explanation for UFO Sightings.

NO!! LOL. :D

We do not fly out to a planet to see if it is there, we find it in a telescope, then scan it as much as is possible, learn what we can, and then send probes. How is it not sensible to extend the scan to make a phone call if initial indications show intelligent life? Do you think if we found intelligent life on Mars that we would not have contacted them by now? I bet Percival Lowell would have made the call himself. These days we know the composition of a planet, what to expect there, how hot it is, even the light levels and if we could survive there.

If it was a dead planet made of Diamond, we would know that, already we know what is an "earth like" planet from incredible distances.

You are also assuming evolution was different and two apex predators arose, and are at odds with each other? That seems more Star Trek than astrobiology? And even then, why would a lesser species become aware of such transmission first, if another species is as you say more advanced?

Why would it be the scientific thing not to interfere? That works on Star Trek, but they only do not contact Pre Warp civilisations in fear of accelerating their development and changing the natural course of history but who is to say space travel and contact is unnatural? We crossed Oceans and did it as soon as we possibly could. And if the other species is intelligent enough to respond, who is more advanced than who? And if they are more advanced, is it even conceivable that we might approach them with stealth? And what would stop us from speaking to others who are at our level of development and also trying to make a phone call?

It's not how our history went, it's only how our popular Sci Fi shows run.

Why would you not go this way when it gives you as much information as one could possible hope for, carries no danger to those involved, is as fast as we know is possible and has little cost by comparison? What is to lose? Little cost, no risk, much bang for your buck.

Or maybe I just like my phone more than robots :D

Edited by psyche101

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Oh, he popped back in over the Festive holiday season, but then I think said that he had better things to do and went orf again.

Well I hope he brings a note, this better be good :D

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NO!! LOL. :D

We do not fly out to a planet to see if it is there, we find it in a telescope, then scan it as much as is possible, learn what we can, and then send probes. How is it not sensible to extend the scan to make a phone call if initial indications show intelligent life? Do you think if we found intelligent life on Mars that we would not have contacted them by now? I bet Percival Lowell would have made the call himself. These days we know the composition of a planet, what to expect there, how hot it is, even the light levels and if we could survive there.

yes, but how would we know if there was intelligent life without checking it out first? ok, at the distance of Mars we could look at it through telescopes, and we might be able to detect transmissions from there, even if they weren't directed at us, but that wouldn't work at interstellar distances, would it. And why should we assume that, even if they did find that there was (intelligent?) life here, an ET race would want to make Contact with us straight away? Wouldn't it make much more sense to study it thoroughly first, before deciding whether there was any point trying to make Contact? What if this is part of a paogram covering the whole Galaxy, or at least the nearest stars, and they haven't specifically chosen us?

Why would it be the scientific thing not to interfere? That works on Star Trek, but they only do not contact Pre Warp civilisations in fear of accelerating their development and changing the natural course of history but who is to say space travel and contact is unnatural? We crossed Oceans and did it as soon as we possibly could. And if the other species is intelligent enough to respond, who is more advanced than who? And if they are more advanced, is it even conceivable that we might approach them with stealth? And what would stop us from speaking to others who are at our level of development and also trying to make a phone call?

It's not how our history went, it's only how our popular Sci Fi shows run.

is it not a basic principle of any experiment or observation to just watch and not intervene? Surely it's well known that intervening in something, even if it's something that doesn't involve sentient life, can skew the results.

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That is a very interesting and quite plausible hypothesis.

I agree..

sorry guys I havent really been in here this week.. been a hell of a week at work.. (52c+ temps most of the week).. so have been knocking off and pretty much having a drink then crashing out..

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Fife is a shady character indeed. He's a politician afterall. Whether he'd seen it or not, he definitely compromised his credibility with the bs he pulled. I guess I can't blame someone for trying to protect their job, but it was a hsitty thing to do, parading a guy in alien suit.

I guess I place more importance on witness testimony than you do, Psyche. Should the court not allow any witness testimony just because some proved to be unreliable? Witness testimonies is an important part of any investigation. Was this the first time that a planes formation flown over a major population area at night? very, very unlikely. Why does this event received so much attention? Are the people of Arizona just more confused or more prone to fantasy as oppose to other instances? I just think where there's smoke, there's fire. There's got to be something there for so many people to say it's not planes.

You believed this to be military. But did the military said it was them (8 o'clock event)? Some dude claimed to be Canadian Snowbirds? But the Snowbirds captain denied being in Arizona at the time. So it's hardly convincing is it?

I think we just have to agree to be on different side of the fence on this issue. I just don't think there are enough evidences to conclusively point either way.

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It was apparently the Canadian Snowbirds.

If that makes no sense to you, you're not the only one.

Well, at least Capt. Michael Perry of the Snowbirds did cleared it up

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http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/azconc.htm Thanks for the link, Psyche.

Also click on the link above by Psyche.

I find the following quite interesting. This is quite scary. But it also explain why many reported UFOs doesn't register on radar.

Here's what it said, "Normally, in a planes formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on is transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could passed by without detection"

Another part said, "The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar..."

What the heck? :no:

He confirms that the object or objects did not register on radar as they passed overhead, a fact seconded by Captain Stacey Cotton of Luke Air Force Base. But both admitted that that doesn't rule out the possibility of a group of airplanes. Cotton says that the radar used by air traffic controllers reads signals emitted by transponders in the airplanes themselves.

Normally, in a formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on its transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could have passed by without detection.

Grava says that depending on the planes' altitude, that may have been perfectly legal. (Ortega Great)

The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar... (McIntosh)

Edited by SwampgasBalloonBoy

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maybe a good starting point would be for you to note next to each case listeda13.jpgk2.jpg

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yes, but how would we know if there was intelligent life without checking it out first?

By looking at it and listening to it.

ok, at the distance of Mars we could look at it through telescopes, and we might be able to detect transmissions from there, even if they weren't directed at us, but that wouldn't work at interstellar distances, would it.

Why not transmissions? If we have a target we can narrow and direct a beam. Remember that we are still talking to the Voyager probes. They are just now entering interstellar space. And it will not be ling before pictures become possible in a recent post I offered you a direct picture and an Extra Solar planet - not an image, not an artists depiction, an actual photo. I believe an amateur has achieved this now, how much longer before we can take a picture that shows lights at night? And if we can tell a planets composition at 100 light years, why would we not be able to detect a planet that has a polluted atmosphere?

And why should we assume that, even if they did find that there was (intelligent?) life here, an ET race would want to make Contact with us straight away? Wouldn't it make much more sense to study it thoroughly first, before deciding whether there was any point trying to make Contact?

No, particularly if you are assuming an advanced species. If we are dealing with an advanced species, it seems that it is likely we would be caught "spying" and that could turn real ugly. I believe honesty is the best policy. Make a phone call and say Howdy Do.

If someone does not want to make contact, I do not feel it would be wise to push the issue. After all, it is a big Universe out there. Someone must be friendly. But we have to ask them first don't we?

I do not fathom a situation where there is no point in making contact with an intelligent Aliens species. Maybe reason why one might not want to, but not no point.

What if this is part of a paogram covering the whole Galaxy, or at least the nearest stars, and they haven't specifically chosen us?

Should we not worry about finding A planet before deciding if we are suitable for a Galactic Federation? Something of the cart before the horse there I would say?

And again, if they do not want anything to do with us, there will not be much we can do about it is there? If they say go away, I guess we just simply go away.

is it not a basic principle of any experiment or observation to just watch and not intervene? Surely it's well known that intervening in something, even if it's something that doesn't involve sentient life, can skew the results.

Not at all, that is for observing animals in nature to understand behavioural patterns. In our history, whenever we have approached other people, we have not been shy about it. We can ask people, we cannot ask animals. That is the point of the observation, to learn what we cannot see. With intelligent species, we just ask.

What results? What the future might hold? Again, that's just a Sci Fi principal. The future is what we make it, if we stand around wondering what will happen if we say hello, we might never get the opportunity. There is no "future police" like in Star Trek to monitor the time line, things are what they are. sometimes they go as planned, sometimes..... not.

No, I think it would be preposterous to cross the stars to simply watch someone. Intergalactic Big Brother. Damn I hate Big Brother, worst show on the telly. We could make contact with a hundred species in the meantime with communications at no risk, and minimal cost. If we get a hostile Alien on the phone, we can just hang up, can't we? Considering the size of space, no matter who we cheese of, we will have time to prepare for any altercation, and perhaps deploy diplomatic solutions in the meantime. Not to mention we might make some powerful allies along the way as well. It can swing both ways, but we wont know if we sit on our hands in fear.

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I agree..

sorry guys I havent really been in here this week.. been a hell of a week at work.. (52c+ temps most of the week).. so have been knocking off and pretty much having a drink then crashing out..

Ain't it been warm! Not quite so much as you down here on the Goldy, but mate............. cold beer is in high demand! My pool is evaporatine about a cm a day!

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No, I think it would be preposterous to cross the stars to simply watch someone. Intergalactic Big Brother. Damn I hate Big Brother, worst show on the telly. We could make contact with a hundred species in the meantime with communications at no risk, and minimal cost. If we get a hostile Alien on the phone, we can just hang up, can't we? Considering the size of space, no matter who we cheese of, we will have time to prepare for any altercation, and perhaps deploy diplomatic solutions in the meantime. Not to mention we might make some powerful allies along the way as well. It can swing both ways, but we wont know if we sit on our hands in fear.

So I take it you don't exactly agree with Stephen Hawking's warning about alien contact? I haven't made up my mind yet whether it would be good or bad to actively announce our presence however I do think a bit of caution is in order. Otherwise it amounts to a roll of the dice and I'd rather not wager the future on it. ^_^

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Ain't it been warm! Not quite so much as you down here on the Goldy, but mate............. cold beer is in high demand! My pool is evaporatine about a cm a day!

Man, I'm going to have to find a way to migrate to the southern hemisphere for the winter. It's been nothing but cold and wet here with colder and wetter on the way. :lol::tu:

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Fife is a shady character indeed. He's a politician afterall. Whether he'd seen it or not, he definitely compromised his credibility with the bs he pulled. I guess I can't blame someone for trying to protect their job, but it was a hsitty thing to do, parading a guy in alien suit.

Gidday Mate.

Indeed it was, but his previous charges tell us what an upstanding bloke he is. Fraud, Bankruptcy, and to me most importantly, false statements under oath. The guy is a convicted liar. Yet people call him the salt of the earth when he says "It was ET!" I mean, that speak louder than a billion testimonies.

Real estate pollie get my back up - the ones that do underhanded real estate deals.

I guess I place more importance on witness testimony than you do, Psyche. Should the court not allow any witness testimony just because some proved to be unreliable? Witness testimonies is an important part of any investigation. Was this the first time that a planes formation flown over a major population area at night? very, very unlikely. Why does this event received so much attention? Are the people of Arizona just more confused or more prone to fantasy as oppose to other instances? I just think where there's smoke, there's fire. There's got to be something there for so many people to say it's not planes.

Yes, and the courts are fighting to remove testimony.

Are you aware of the Innocence Project, and their achievements? People have spent time on death row, decades in prison, and I have no doubt even died under incorrect eyewitness testimony. Out of all the cases where eyewitness testimony has been overturned by DNA evidence, 75% have been proven wrong. One man spent ten years on death row, innocent, due to eyewitness testimony, it is notoriously unreliable.

A very good read - LINK The Innocence Project.This is where most ETH'ers fear to tread ;)

And not only that, but it lies in the eye of the beholder. One mans Alien if another mans Devil or Goblin, what someone thinks it proof of ET, someone else thinks is proof of the supernatural, however, none at all are likely to be correct, with testimony it has to be raw to be of any use at all. And that means no personal slant or interpretation. People should not say "I saw a pointy eared alien" they should describe exactly what they saw, and then let people with more experience offer suggestions as to what it could be. A person completely new to a thing is in no position to evaluate it.

EtH'ers will try to convince people to deeply value testimony because it all they have got. That in itself should say something?

There was definitely something in the sky that night, that made people look up when they usually do not, and something that made them come outside of their homes at night when they normally would not. Comet Hale-Bopp. That's the "fire". Another flare demonstration was scheduled at a later date, and many people said Nah not that same, and they are the only one's who's testimony is bandied around everywhere. Many people, including professionals who would know such as Ian Ridpath, said it was very similar. Again, people are useless at Phoenix, for every yes there is a no. It's a dead end. It seems like everyone is saying "This was ET" because that is the stories that papers needed to print a ET story. How many papers would sell if the headlines scrreamed

MILITARY EXERCISE OVER PHOENIX CONFUSES CITIZENS.

?

GIANT ALIEN CRAFT SPOOKS PHOENIX

will sell a great deal more papers, do you not agree?

You believed this to be military. But did the military said it was them (8 o'clock event)? Some dude claimed to be Canadian Snowbirds? But the Snowbirds captain denied being in Arizona at the time. So it's hardly convincing is it?

No that is explained as well, on the page. (the writing you posted was in white, change font colour with the editor and it will be visible)

The "snowbird" reference may have been an error and the pilots in the aircraft may have stated they were flying Tutors like the Snowbird demonstration team or Middleton/Campbell just placed the snowbird term to the Tutors because they are the ones that commonly fly the craft. It is not commonly known that the Tutor aircraft was flown by units of the Canadian Air Force in 1997 (They were replaced in 2000). The formation may or may not have actually been Tutors but, if they were, they did not have to be the Snowbird demonstration team.

I think we just have to agree to be on different side of the fence on this issue. I just don't think there are enough evidences to conclusively point either way.

I strongly disagree, and ask what evidence is there for ET? It did not leave the atmosphere, even though one witness said one light "shot up" that also does not mean it left the atmosphere, in fact that might indicate natural phenomena, but I do not feel that is the most likely scenario here. Naga Fireballs do just that - shoot up out of the Mekong Rover. Nobody knows how or why.

Can you provide one instance of any sort of evidence that is not a personal interpretation that indicates ET? I.E. What other than Say So works for ET? There is nothing other than testimony. Does that not offer something of a direction? I can give you something very real that I feel offers a very good solution to the contingent that have convinced themselves that they saw giant craft in the sky - Illusory Contours. Nobody is immune to it. Nobody.

225px-Kanizsa_triangle.svg.png

Honestly mate, have a read of this, and tell me honestly that it is not possible that it could explain the contingent spreading the giant craft guff. Is there a white triangle in the above picture? - LINK

I honestly believe that if you try to prove this was ET, you will fail, and miserably. I have not even mentioned the triangulation Boon and Lost Shaman did in the BEIII Thread with the information given by the witnesses. For me, that was the final straw, Phoenix was dead when the witnesses thought they were describing one giant craft hovering over Phoenix, and in the daylight, their own information proves them incorrect. LS and Boon are awesome.

Phoenix is crap. It's just hype made up to sell papers, and make some people feel special. Same with Roswell, Belgium, and most of the "famous" incidents. That does not mean the UFO phenomena is for idiots, not at all, it might draw them in crowds, Belgium was no doubt a natural phenomena, something like a freak Hessdalen instance on steroids and would have been very much worth studying. But just quietly, I could never resolve the Portage County Case. There are some amazing mysteries, and ET just might be a good option in many of them, but not as often as the credulous make out. It's a shame really, those that claim to love the phenomena do the most damage to it. I do not think ET has been here to date, but I do not discount that he might arrive, or perhaps make a call, tomorrow. And it will not be this ambiguous. When ET gets here, we will know, not guess.

Good Post mate. I enjoy our conversations. Thanks, I have been missing Quillius, and you have offered a very interesting conversation in the meantime. As far as "believers" go, mate, Quillius is head and shoulders above most. I hold his view in high regard, and urge that you take a page from his book. He is an excellent investigator, and asks the most astute questions, we can all learn from a good opposing view. It makes one have a closer look at all aspects. You are a good poster with a good attitude, and I think you would be a fine representative no matter which side you deicide to eventually settle upon. You know, I was not always a skeptic. From what I see, in a majority of cases, time tends to do that.

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101
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Ain't it been warm! Not quite so much as you down here on the Goldy, but mate............. cold beer is in high demand! My pool is evaporatine about a cm a day!

hell yes!!.. I see you guys are getting the heat now we have had..

will be in the glasshouse mountains tomorrow :) heading over for 5 days

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So I take it you don't exactly agree with Stephen Hawking's warning about alien contact? I haven't made up my mind yet whether it would be good or bad to actively announce our presence however I do think a bit of caution is in order. Otherwise it amounts to a roll of the dice and I'd rather not wager the future on it. ^_^

Ohh, I agree with it, I just do not think we roll that way.

I dunno, like I always say - Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

Hell scratch that, I do not say that Douglas Adams did LOL. I think we have some wriggle room with time frames thanks to space.......

Ever seen the Castle? Great Aussie movie. Reminds me of when the heavies showed up at Farouks door........

It's either that, or we sit on the shelf forever I think...... I think we have to dive in some time? It pays to keep Hawking's warning in mind, I agree, but I do not think we are a species that is patient enough to hide in the dark for fear of the unknown.

Hell, maybe that's where all the aliens are? In hiding? We might be the boldest species yet! Everyone in the Universe might be shaking in the boots because these kickass humans are out there looking for it! :D

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Man, I'm going to have to find a way to migrate to the southern hemisphere for the winter. It's been nothing but cold and wet here with colder and wetter on the way. :lol::tu:

You always have a place to stay on the Gold Coast Mate.

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hell yes!!.. I see you guys are getting the heat now we have had..

will be in the glasshouse mountains tomorrow :) heading over for 5 days

Getting closer, we are going to have to meet Chrlzs at Treetops Tavern one Friday afternoon soon. :D

The Aussie UM contingent get together :D

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By looking at it and listening to it.

Why not transmissions? If we have a target we can narrow and direct a beam. Remember that we are still talking to the Voyager probes. They are just now entering interstellar space. And it will not be ling before pictures become possible in a recent post I offered you a direct picture and an Extra Solar planet - not an image, not an artists depiction, an actual photo. I believe an amateur has achieved this now, how much longer before we can take a picture that shows lights at night? And if we can tell a planets composition at 100 light years, why would we not be able to detect a planet that has a polluted atmosphere?

No, particularly if you are assuming an advanced species. If we are dealing with an advanced species, it seems that it is likely we would be caught "spying" and that could turn real ugly. I believe honesty is the best policy. Make a phone call and say Howdy Do.

If someone does not want to make contact, I do not feel it would be wise to push the issue. After all, it is a big Universe out there. Someone must be friendly. But we have to ask them first don't we?

I do not fathom a situation where there is no point in making contact with an intelligent Aliens species. Maybe reason why one might not want to, but not no point.

Should we not worry about finding A planet before deciding if we are suitable for a Galactic Federation? Something of the cart before the horse there I would say?

And again, if they do not want anything to do with us, there will not be much we can do about it is there? If they say go away, I guess we just simply go away.

Not at all, that is for observing animals in nature to understand behavioural patterns. In our history, whenever we have approached other people, we have not been shy about it. We can ask people, we cannot ask animals. That is the point of the observation, to learn what we cannot see. With intelligent species, we just ask.

What results? What the future might hold? Again, that's just a Sci Fi principal. The future is what we make it, if we stand around wondering what will happen if we say hello, we might never get the opportunity. There is no "future police" like in Star Trek to monitor the time line, things are what they are. sometimes they go as planned, sometimes..... not.

No, I think it would be preposterous to cross the stars to simply watch someone. Intergalactic Big Brother. Damn I hate Big Brother, worst show on the telly. We could make contact with a hundred species in the meantime with communications at no risk, and minimal cost. If we get a hostile Alien on the phone, we can just hang up, can't we? Considering the size of space, no matter who we cheese of, we will have time to prepare for any altercation, and perhaps deploy diplomatic solutions in the meantime. Not to mention we might make some powerful allies along the way as well. It can swing both ways, but we wont know if we sit on our hands in fear.

All these points seem to be assuming that an ET civilisation would specifically be interested in, and would then decide to want to make contact with, us in particular. That's not what I'm envisaging. I'm enivisaging a systematic process of exploration and study of every planet they come across, that's within sensible reach, purely in the interests of studying them in a properly scientific way. Why would they want to make Contact with us specifially, if, as is not unlikely, there are many, many civilisations all across the galazy, many of them (probably) much more advanced than we are. Really, a Galactic Federation? I'm not talking aboit a Galactic Federation. What i said was what these hypothetical ETs might do; not us. I said they might do just what I said above, a systematic process of exploration and study of every planet they come across, that's within sensible reach, purely in the interests of studying them in a properly scientific way. How do you get a Galactic Federisation out of that? That's some extrapolation. If the initial results (obtained by just the method you outline, looking at it and deducing that it might have an atmosphere that might be able to sustain Life) looked encouraging enough, why not add that planet to the list of ones that it might be worth sendign a Probe out to, to study in more detail? Why assume that, having deduced that it might sustain Life, they'd then want to leap in and make Contact?

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http://home.comcast..../UFO/azconc.htm Thanks for the link, Psyche.

Also click on the link above by Psyche.

I find the following quite interesting. This is quite scary. But it also explain why many reported UFOs doesn't register on radar.

Here's what it said, "Normally, in a planes formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on is transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could passed by without detection"

Another part said, "The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar..."

What the heck? :no:

He confirms that the object or objects did not register on radar as they passed overhead, a fact seconded by Captain Stacey Cotton of Luke Air Force Base. But both admitted that that doesn't rule out the possibility of a group of airplanes. Cotton says that the radar used by air traffic controllers reads signals emitted by transponders in the airplanes themselves.

Normally, in a formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on its transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could have passed by without detection.

Grava says that depending on the planes' altitude, that may have been perfectly legal. (Ortega Great)

The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar... (McIntosh)

I think it is more that they expect people to follow the rules. They could find them if they wanted to, but why look if everyone is supposed to be carrying a beacon?

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